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5259939 No.5259939[DELETED]  [Reply] [Original]

Does "Fascism" still mean anything?

It used to describe a middle way between Capitalists and the Bolsheviks in the 20s and 30s of the last century, but now it seems to be used to describe any authoritarian or discriminating system.

IHas it become a thinly veiled "you're literarlly Hitler" ?

>> No.5259950

>>5259939
Generally it's just as a shorthand for any type of totalitarianism/authoritarianism. Rarely do people actually mean the specifics by which Mussolini's Italy distinguished itself from other ways of running a country.

Among a certain type of people, fascist is just what you call anyone who wants you to do something you don't like.

>> No.5259957

>>5259950
Could something happen again these days in a way it happened to Italy with Mussolini?

>> No.5259961

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definitions_of_fascism#Umberto_Eco

>> No.5259963

>>5259939
Fascism means corporatism.
Mussolini himself described it as an alliance of the state and corporations.

>> No.5259974

>>5259961
So it did completely change its meaning.

>> No.5259978

>>5259957
If it were, it would have to be under a completely different name and image. Some type of crypto-fascism. When Mussolini did it the whole world praised him. Well the part that didn't like commies, Churchill admired him for example. Since the second world war the concept has been sullied. Just like you can't use the word eugenics any more when you're trying not to have downie kids because muh nazis.

Some people might say Putin is trying to pull something of the sort though, depending on your definitions.

>> No.5259983

>>5259957
Jobbik is gaining a lot of power in Hungary, I wouldn't doubt they would pull the sort of stuff the German National Socialists and just take over once they have enough power.

>> No.5259995

>>5259978
I should add, a lot of the little European fascists just fucking love role playing. They can't help themselves. Rather than actually bring fascist policies into existence, they just have to do the whole macho thing. They just have to do the salute. They have to flirt with the fasces and the swastika. These proles are their own worst enemy.

>> No.5260000

>>5259978
Hm, I think Putin lacks the proper ideological setup for that.

>> No.5260002

>>5259978
Putin is an isolationist, not imperialistic.

>> No.5260077

>>5260002
You forgot the invasion of Crimea already?

>> No.5260090

>>5259963
I think ideally, corporatism is subjugation of the state by corporations, where fascism is the subjugation of corporations by the state (in a capitalistic frame of course)

>> No.5260093

>>5260077
Putin sees this as a war of cultures. He sees western culture is in decline and/or a bad influence on the Russian people, that's why he wants to retain as many Russian assets as possible. Hence the quarrel about Crimea and East-Ukraine.

>> No.5260105

>>5260093
But Russia is a druggy, drunken, abortion addicted aids ridden nihilistic shitheap.

>> No.5260163

well, in the Ukraine-Russia conflict everyone is calling each other a fascist now, and not in a "Hitler" way

>> No.5260251

>>5259963
>>5260090
Corporatism began in part to reference the bible and to create a social organisation which is better than the people individually.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+corinthians%2012:12-12:31&version=KJV

Corporatism is not where corporations rule (a corporatocracy) but where the vital parts of the of the society (industry, government and the common folk) would work together. It uses the word corpus meaning body. It would work to keep each part healthy and to stop one part working against another. This would ideally work to reduce strikes and keep working conditions good. British fascism continued this idea and so effectively advocated total trade unionism. The single party state was a must as it would stop parties not working together and simply trying to get votes. Italian fascism was however different. It did not allow trade unions as they could not be controlled. Fascism in name seems to support cooperation as it references the fasces. The fasces was a faggot used in discipline. The bundle was stronger than one stick alone.

>> No.5260277

>>5260251
>The fasces was a faggot
This still amuses me to no end.

>> No.5260354

Fascism's current meaningful definition among people who use it seriously is palingenetic nationalism usually with implicit authoritarianism, elitism, hierarchy

99% of its usage is just people saying DICTATORSHIP IS BAD OR SOMETHING or sometimes just COPS SUCK

>> No.5260362

>>5260105
wow, great observation.

>> No.5260386

>>5260362
But it's true. What does he want to protect them from?

>> No.5260396

>>5259939
"Fascism" now is generally used as a shorthand for "any political or ethical philosophy I don't like".

>> No.5260398

>>5259939

The current meaning is "people I don't agree with and am too lazy to refute".

>> No.5260410

>>5259939
One of the problems is even the description you use, OP.
Italian Fascism was different from National Socialism in many way, very different than the Bushido/Imperialism of Japan ,and even more different than the Falangism of Spain - yet today we lump them all together as 'Fascism'

>> No.5260411

>>5260093
The Russian self-conception is imperialism. They are the opposite of isolationist. Ethnic Russianism or chauvinism basically doesn't exist. Dostoevsky's chauvinism was an aberration compared to ubiquitous, century-spanning Slavophilism/Panslavism, which was then adapted well into the 20th century, continuing to exist alongside its analogue/evolved form of the Comintern. Russia has NEVER had anything comparable to 19th century German, Polish, French, etc. romantic nationalism.

Russia is the quintessential expansionist state. if you read Brzezinski he basically says the great challenge of European/American geostrategy is to get Russia to accept its losses and view themselves as just another European national/ethnic state, and not look at them as a "temporary setback" for an empire that transcends "ordinary" states which is the strong, strong default thing they're gonna do. And which has happened since he wrote this.

Russians are at best reflexively chauvinist because they have no dissonance about subduing dudes. But that's just because the average Russian is a barely civilised brute.

>> No.5260442

>>5259978
Since russia has always had corruption and a tsar, everyone's just used to it, and as soon as they didn't have a tough one - Nicholas II - they got rid of him. Then Stalin filled the role once more and so on until Putin.

>> No.5260476

>>5259995
You're talking about Neo-nazis, totally untermensch.

>> No.5260494

>>5260354
I love you Anon.

>> No.5260502

>>5260410
Yeah, this.

>> No.5260523

>>5260396
>>5260398
And the idiots that use it that way for some reason think that it's impossible to like any aspect of a real fascist state of government.

>> No.5260537

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>> No.5260547

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>> No.5260550

>It used to describe a middle way between Capitalists and the Bolsheviks in the 20s and 30s of the last century, but now it seems to be used to describe any authoritarian or discriminating system.

Oh, another revisionist lost from /pol/.

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>> No.5260581

>>5259983
Jobbik's head figures have been giving the finger to liberal democracy lately when they've targeted their speeches to Hungarians abroad, effectively flirting with an idea of Greater Hungary.

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>> No.5260690

>>5259939
even the Fascism you describe was an amalgamation of various different regimes. Nazis never really called themselves fascists.

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>> No.5260884
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