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/lit/ - Literature

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5242542 No.5242542[DELETED]  [Reply] [Original]

How do you cope with being a slave?

>> No.5242573
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5242573

By trying to wake everybody else up to this fact.

Why aren't we writing novels about breaking people out of this slave morality?

>> No.5242577

>>5242573
How can you break out of something that is grounded in physical reality?

>> No.5242585

Suicide.

>> No.5242587

>>5242573
>Doing something to help others
>Breaking out of slave morality
Hector/Achilles/OdysseusLoling.exe

>> No.5242617
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5242617

>>5242577
??
It's a figure of speech. Like the way we broke out of divinely ordained rulership.

>> No.5242625
File: 26 KB, 309x488, Camus4[1].gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5242625

Don't worry, Camus is here to make you feel happy!

>The struggle itself ... is enough to fill a man's heart. One must imagine Sisyphus happy.

>> No.5242644

>>5242573
The act of writing a novel supports slavehood by allowing influence to drive others. The only genuine act to protest slavehood is to cease existence.

In other words, commit seppuku.

>> No.5242662

>>5242617
But divinely ordained rulership is still a thing. It's called genetics.

>> No.5242675

>>5242625
The issue for Camus, though he doesn't say this explicitly, is not with whether life has meaning, but with whether a meaningful life is valuable. Fact is there have been many lifeworlds that have been meaningful to people living in it. You may want to say that the meaning the individuals got from those worlds, from being-there, was derived from its fictitious nature, but then again this is not an answer to the question of whether life has meaning. It's a question of whether a meaningful life has value if it's meaning stems from fiction.

The answer is yes, because whether a narrative is meaningful should be the standard for a narrative, and not, as is now the case, whether the narrative is true. Camus famously disagrees, and lavishes high praise and colorful words on a barren yet truthful life, but aside from the dogmatism (by which I mean the rejection of multiple possible and valid narratives), there's also the criticism that his narrative is all stick and no carrot. Priding yourself on the ability to take a beating with a smile is slave value par excellence.

>> No.5243010

NEETism

>> No.5243012

>>5243010
/thread

>> No.5243024

>>5242675
This
I saw someone trying to prove alienation don't real because of "The Myth of Sisyphus".

I mean, jesus christ

>> No.5243072

>>5242675
insightful analysis m8

>> No.5243085

>>5242625
Myth of Sisyphus has to be the worst philosophical essay ever composed. Genuinely infuriating stupidity on Camus' part. His proponents are even less tolerable. Tell the kid starving to death in Ethiopia right now that we must imagine Sisyphus happy. Fucking disgusting.

>> No.5243093

>>5242675

Interesting analysis. I always thought that Camus's overall message in Sisyphus was to take pride and joy in the journey, even if it has no meaningful end.

Sisyphus's situation was thus meant to highlight that opting out through suicide would be a cop-out of sorts; Sisyphus masters his labour despite its lack of a grand meaning, and thus grants 'meaning' in an otherwise meaningless existence.

This is only my personal take on it, though, so I'd very much like to hear others' take on Camus's Sisyphus.

>> No.5243102

sell crack

>> No.5243131

>>5242662
No. Monarchy is all but finished. Nobody buys it

>>5242644
In theory, you could write a novel supporting anarchy, get paid, influence people and aid revolt. All good. So you took the money, so what? That's the system you lived in.
You're talking about suicide? Not even dying for a cause! You really sucked into this Chinese cartoon society aren't ya? Mishima fanboi?

>> No.5243137

I lube my anus every morning before venturing out into the world. It doesn't hurt so much.

>> No.5243207

>>5242573
We're living in a world where you can succumb to slavery or become an outcast.

Nobody knows how to live autonomously.

>> No.5243215

>>5243207
>Nobody knows how to live autonomously.
Yet everyone seems to think they do

>> No.5243219

>>5243215
That's the joke.

>> No.5243524

>>5242542
I'm unemployed anon, I'm not one of you.

>> No.5243578

I write, party on the weekends, etc.

>> No.5243594

Disobey, and take away as much control from your masters as possible.

>> No.5243885
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5243885

>teenage suburban white kids calling themselves "slaves"

>> No.5244189

>>5243885
Go back to tumblr, slave.

>> No.5244361
File: 28 KB, 317x232, ‘sure-of-nothing’sure-not-sure.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5244361

>>5243093
Well, Sisyphus becomes conscious of the meaningless nature of his task when his rock tumbles down and he has time to reflect on the lack of a 'for-what' of it all.

I'm not sure what you mean by mastering his labor. Does he take solace in becoming more efficient at it?

Imagine instead that Sisyphus develops a set of values. Lets say that one value he holds is that killing babies is bad. Imagine further that in the depths of his solitude and madness he begins thinking that everytime he rolls the stone uphill a baby is saved.

Now we can plausibly imagine that in that moment when he sees the rock roll down and has a moment to reflect on the 'for what' of it, he can be satisfied with himself and eager to do it again. His life has meaning. On what basis should we think this doesn't count? On what basis can we say that it's better for him to live in a completely disenchanted world?

>> No.5244983
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5244983

>so long as man requires food, water, and shelter they will always be enslaved

>> No.5244985

>>5242542
>How do you cope with being a slave?

>Implying I live in a communist shithole.

>> No.5244986

>>5244983
So death is the only true freedom?

>> No.5244987

>>5242542
Coming from a protestant country, I have been conditioned to derive great pleasure from servitude.

>> No.5244990

>>5244986
No, because you can't consciously enjoy it.

>> No.5245040

>>5244990
Enjoyment has nothing to do with slavery, what if I enjoy being a slave?

>> No.5245052

>>5245040
Well, what would be the point of being free if you find no happiness in it? You'd just be a corpse. Corpses can't feel or think about anything.

>> No.5245069

>>5245052
As has been stated previously in this thread, the happiness lies in the struggle to be free.

>> No.5245090
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5245090

ITT too many angsty teen-types that think life is slavery for thirst and urges, and the *terrible* efforts one must go through to satiate these needs.

>> No.5245102

>>5243594
and get shot*

>> No.5245104
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5245104

"Slave is ultimately in better position than his master, for the master fails at attaining equal position with his slave, but the slave has an ideal to aspire to."

>> No.5245109

>>5243578
>Slave to masturbation
>Slave to entertainment
>Slave to social acceptability
>Slave

>> No.5245111

>>5245090
So you cope through denial, huh? Does it work?

>> No.5245116

>>5243885
>implying the nature of slavery cannot evolve like everything else

>> No.5245131

>>5245090
Did you even read the thread
Well
Butterfly man

>> No.5245144

I buy stuff.
Slaves can't buy stuff
Herefor I'm free

>> No.5245145

>>5242587
is this funny because thwy write about exactly thar?

>> No.5245240

>>5245144
Freedom would be not needing to buy stuff. You're a slave to necessities, luxuries, and everything in between.

>> No.5245255

>>5245144
You're a slave to hunger.
You're a slave to gravity.
You're a slave to sleep.
You're a slave to pain.
You're a slave to boredom.
You're a slave to thirst.
You're a slave to oxygen.

Ultimately, you're a slave to death.

>> No.5245283

>>5245255
No, you're a companion.

>> No.5245301

There is no peace--there is only passion.

Through passion I gain strength.

Through strength I gain power.

Through power I gain victory.

Through victory my chains are broken.

So break your chains.

>> No.5245310

>>5242542
I understand your concern, but do you think people like J.S. Bach, Mozart, Beethoven< and vivaldi were slaves?

Is it possible to achieve a sort of self actualized liberation from the hellhole slavery of modern society?

For instance, If I work a dead end job is it not possible to feel complete and total nirvana while simultaneously fulfilling the role of a wage slave?

I'm asking because I am a classical musician and I don't know really how to answer the question in the OP.

>> No.5245322

>>5243885
>identity politics
>implying being white is easier then being black

I'm guessing you've never worked a day in your life.

>> No.5245327

>>5245322
>>5243885
being white is just as bad as being black is what I'm trying to say

>> No.5245330

I am not a slave.

>> No.5245350

>>5245145
It's funny because these heroes had absolutely no concern with helping others. Hector, for fucks sake, is faced with a choice.
1. Give up and be killed by Hector. Troy would not have been destroyed, though they would have to give up half their wealth.
2. Fight and be killed by Achilles, and have all of Troy sacked.

He chooses to doom his own people just so he could die with honor. Think about that for a second. Helping others is a virtue slaves and the weak want to see people having because they stand to benefit from it.

>> No.5245360

>>5245350
>Hector would have been killed by Achilles, I meant.

>> No.5245368

The master gives me cornbread

>> No.5245379

Helping others and working to get other people to help others means working in the interests of the sick and downtrotten. You can't be anymore of a slave than by helping others. In effect, you're a slave to slave interests.

>> No.5245561

>>5245379
would you refuse to help your mother getting up if she falls, because thats slave moral?

>> No.5245587

>>5242542
How do you cope with thinking there is such a thing as slavery?

>> No.5245597

>>5245379
Voluntary altruism is the only way to not be a slave.

>> No.5245687

>>5242542
>How do you cope with being?

>> No.5245698

>>5242542
>How do you cope?

>> No.5245703

>>5242542
>How do?

>> No.5245710

>>5245703
Not bad, and ee?

>> No.5245740

>>5245597
Explain.

>> No.5245774

>>5245740
Because in an act of compassion we momentarily lose our enslavement to our own needs and desires.

>> No.5245804

>>5245283
What is a companion that cannot leave?

Enslaved.

>> No.5245809

>>5245774
>implying voluntary altruism isn't just trading one slavery for another

>> No.5245819
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5245819

>>5242542

By escaping.

>> No.5245895

>>5245804
not him but it is more of a symbiotic relationship

there is no existence without something to experience it
to experience it, you must abide by the laws of nature

but you are free to leave any time.

>> No.5245919
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5245919

>>5242542

I'm okay with slavery. We're all slaves to ourselves in the sense that life itself is a set of rules. The despair we're talking about here comes from being enslaved to other people's shitty animal desires and fuckwad capitalist projects.

>> No.5245926

>>5242542
I live on the edge.

>> No.5245929

You do not long for freedom, you long for importance.

>> No.5245949

serious: read the greeks

>> No.5245957

>>5245926
...the mirror's edge

>> No.5245960

>>5245949

But Diogenes didn't write anything.

>> No.5246002
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5246002

>>5244361

>fundamentally misunderstanding camus

>> No.5246020

>>5246002

I can see a lot of what he said is sort of irrelevant to the core point, but what part is "fundamentally" wrong?

Is it the fact that Sisyphus was given a task to do whereas we, being humans and free, must find a task to undertake?

>> No.5246050
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5246050

"How do you cope with being a slave?"
This is a pretty open ended question, I'll admit, so none of these silly answers (oh and the serious one too. I'm not trying to hurt anyones feelings) are not inherently wrong. It's just that I see the the unnatural shackles as the more pressing, and oppressing, form of bondage.
Of course I'm talking about the faith based slaveries. Capitalism, religion, law and states, etc. Those things don't exist until we approve them. So why not adjust them to our liking? (No, we don't all like them)
The slavery of your belly needing food is a natural one, and one with a pleasant remedy.

>> No.5246083

>>5246050

You didn't answer the question and that belly thing was a faulted analogy

>> No.5246092

>tfw no qt /lit/ domme

>> No.5246097

>>5245809
It isn't, slavery implies a certain dependency.

>> No.5246109

>>5245255
This is a good point, and also the reason why those who need the least are most free.

Diogenes was right.

>> No.5246112

>>5242542
1. Realize am slave.
2. Find way to be free.
3. Find what to do to be free.
4. Do those things.
5. Am free.

>> No.5246146

the sublime

just keep chasing it man

>> No.5246158

>>5246112
What are solutions to steps 2 and 3?

>> No.5246162

>>5246083
>that belly thing was a faulted analogy
The analogy if of the suffering that is life. I'm aware of it. I recommend the removal of the on-purpose suffering we inflict on ourselves and those we deem lower than ourselves

You have a question. State it again. You are after all just anonymous.

>> No.5246189

⇒implying I'd ever be a slave

Top lel. I'm 100% dominant.

>> No.5246191

>>5246189
can i be your seme-sama?

>> No.5246199

>>5246191
Translate to English. I don't speak autism.

>> No.5246206

>>5246189
>scientist
>not slave.

>> No.5246250

>>5246189
First and foremost you're slave to your own delusions here.