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5227980 No.5227980 [Reply] [Original]

If you really tried, what is the political label you could put on yourself? The ideology you feel most close to.

Don't pretend you are such a unique snowflake that there is not even a close hit.

>> No.5227987

lazy pretentious liberal who wishes he had the work ethic to be a republican

>> No.5227989
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5227989

>>5227980
situationist

>> No.5227990

Trotskyite

>> No.5227994

>>5227987
just go WASP

oh

>> No.5227996

liberal

>> No.5227998

Anarcho-collectivism

>> No.5227999
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5227999

stalinist

>> No.5228001
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5228001

>>5227987

>> No.5228002

I'm not sure honestly.

Far-Left, presumably, but I hate pretty much all liberals I meet. They're all such whiny assholes.

>> No.5228004

Environmentalist/Conservative with some classical liberal leanings.

>> No.5228005

>>5228002

standard american

>> No.5228008

>>5228005
The standard American is so far to the right they think moderate conservatism is right wing.

>> No.5228009

>>5228008
*left wing

>> No.5228012

I do whatever benefits me most

>> No.5228014

Active nihilist

>> No.5228017

>>5228001
bait? why? there is no pride in my statement.

>> No.5228018

female supremacy

>> No.5228019

Communist/misanthrope.

>> No.5228020

zen

>> No.5228021

Cynic

>> No.5228027

>>5227980

Libertarian. Maximum freedom.

>>5227999

Faggot. You wouldn't survive a day under Stalin.

>> No.5228030

>>5228008
>>5228009
left/right dichotomy is buggered anyway, let's be honest.

I would argue that americans love egalitarian and liberal ideals, but also have a conflicted sense of self vs state.
They understand that they owe their livelihood to the more powerful, and they can be envious of that, but at the same time they admire the lateral freedom that made them powerful.

On the other hand they view all as essentially citizens, which is enabled by the state, but they feel their individual freedom is curtailed by the state.

>> No.5228033

>>5228027
>Libertarian. Maximum freedom.
Assuming you can afford it.

>> No.5228034
File: 1.06 MB, 776x1000, Antonio_Moro_-_Willem_I_van_Nassau.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
5228034

Constitutional Monarchy/Dictatorship in the vein of Hamilton, Salazar, Schmitt, Augustus etc., which I regard as the only conservatism.

I despise all other political orders: Socialism, Liberalism (i.e. Democratic, Republican, adnd Libertarian if you're American), German fascism. Though there are some qualities to Italian fascism.

>> No.5228035

>>5228034
>Augustus

kek

>> No.5228036

I say libertarian but I don't believe it. I am a dreamer, I suppose. I like to think about freedom, but I simultaneously recognize that extreme politics with limited freedom are the most responsible and efficient.

>> No.5228037

>>5228030
So basically Americans are politically schizophrenic.

>> No.5228039

Anarcho-Monarchism

Also this shit belongs on /pol/ it isn't even a discussion of political philosophy or political literature.

>> No.5228042

>>5228039
>Anarcho-Monarchism
so cunt fused...

>> No.5228044

>>5228033

It won't be expensive, don't worry!

>Capitalism and Freedom, Milton Friedman

Read it.

>> No.5228045

>>5228037

Either you can blame capitalism for curtailed egalitarianism or you can blame the state for curtailing individual liberties. The problem is that the state is capitalist.

Until this is resolved the yanks and most of the world have a right to be politically confused.

>> No.5228046

Egalitarian

>> No.5228050

I was particularly fond of German fascism. The idea of supporting the collective through hard work and a decent safety net for veterans/children. Strong military. All about stability and security. Somewhat free enterprise.

Antisemitism is disgusting. What a way to ruin a political ideology.

>> No.5228051

>>5228044
>reading friedman
>ever
NO

>> No.5228059

>>5228045
The state will never not be capitalist. The only way to get your sovereignty back is to an hero.

>> No.5228062
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5228062

>>5227989
Situationist

>> No.5228064

>>5228042
Libertarian socialism is also a thing

>> No.5228065

>>5228050

Oswald Spengler might be for you then

>> No.5228068

>>5228059

So fukuyama, do we do away with the state and allow anarchocapitalist dystopia?

>> No.5228071

>>5228065
Thanks. I'll check him out. New name for me.

>> No.5228075

>>5228050
>Antisemitism is disgusting. What a way to ruin a political ideology.
Being antisemitic is a quick way of being anti-modernist. It's also an easy way to rally the plebs behind said cause.

I wouldn't call attempting to revive the German Empire when the rest of Europe hates your guts and has guaranteed Poland "stable" or "secure".

>> No.5228076

>>5228068
No. You embrace the state's control over you and move on with your life. State creates liberty, state can take liberty away.

>> No.5228079

>>5228064
That makes sense to me. I can imagine a collectivist society with minimal state intervention. But how are you going to have a stateless society with a monarch? That shit is inherently incoherent.

>> No.5228083

>>5228071
I like Capitalism and stuff in theory, you know, it's like one big game of king of the hill, the problem is when someone gets too far above everyone else the game's pretty well broke, but if you call it quits as soon as someone gets too far, then what's the point, and who's gonna bother climbing if they think they'll just get kicked down again. You can limit expansion, but then you're limiting advancement, you'll be a still society. Is there any way a Capitalist society could function without being fucked by monopolies or government?

>> No.5228086

>>5228076

So we're in agreement that capitalism is a nice method of securing more freedoms in an ideally egalitarian state? We should leave the interplay between economy and state as it is and let people negotiate between capitalist powerplay and state sponsored freedom? It's ludicrous.

>> No.5228087

>>5228083
Didn't mean to quote. Whoops.

>> No.5228088

>>5228083
> Is there any way a Capitalist society could function without being fucked by monopolies or government?

no.

>> No.5228091
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5228091

>>5228002
>implying liberals are far left

>> No.5228094

>>5228083
Doesn't Hobbes answer this question? So long as men exist, violence exists. To quell violence, you create the state (that line in Leviathan about covenants being upheld by the sword). Granted, I don't know what Hobbes would say to Marx and his critique of the capitalist class society. I guess I see capitalism as inevitable. I don't argue that it's viable -- rather, I'd say vaccines and technology is cool, but growing inequality is horrible. It can be good and evil.

>> No.5228097

>>5228091
These are the exact kind of people that bother me. Lazy fucks who bum around public parks and whine for a couple months to achieve nothing.

If someone had the gall to break into one of the 1%'s houses and steal a bunch of gold bricks or something I'd cheer him on for actually doing something, but the world's full of too much idleness and too many people with bigger talk than action.

>> No.5228098

>>5228094
*are cool, rather.

>> No.5228100
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5228100

>>5228027
>Libertarian. Maximum freedom.
Living under the rules of the almighty market.
The most inhumane ideology of all.

>> No.5228103

Not so unique, just hard to pin down in a word or two.
Generally leftist. I approve of an eventual progression to anarchism, but can support any and all steps between that and wherever we're at now.

>>5228030
>left/right dichotomy is buggered anyway, let's be honest.
Nah. It's a generalization and still handy.

>> No.5228111

>>5228094

Your comments on Hobbes don't match up with the conclusion that capitalism is inevitable.

>> No.5228114

Constitutional Republic at top level with sortition deciding smaller offices.

>> No.5228115
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5228115

>>5228097
>implying the americans have the gall
>implying the french didn't

>> No.5228116

>>5228103
>Nah. It's a generalization and still handy.
if you want it to be handy you often need to articulate what you mean by left or right. It's more often than not a means of people glazing over concepts they have no understanding of.

>> No.5228128

Anarcho-Capitalism

Fight for your right to party.

>> No.5228131

>>5228116
Agreed. It's all very complex. "Americans are politically schizophrenic" Because all the goals priorities have been confused or hidden.

>> No.5228132

>>5228131

butterfly you should write a treatise on baudrillard and modern political ideology

>> No.5228138

>>5228132
I actually want to do that (Baudrillard?) sort of thing in fictional form.

>> No.5228140

>>5228138

explore hyper reality through a narrative

>> No.5228143

What do you guys think about retarded people/crazies? Like kids who are born unable to work or people who go nuts and carve people up on public transit? Deep down I want to say we should just kill them but I doubt that'll ever happen. It's kind of cold hearted, maybe, but what good can they do the world? And how much fun is a deformed child having sitting in his wheelchair at the back of a classroom. Crazies maybe they are having fun. I feel bad for them all sure, but who's gonna provide for them? The family? What if they're poor? The govt? Shiiiiet, I don't wanna pay for them. I pay for them next thing I know I'm paying for neets and hippies to lounge around doing nothing

it's a crazy world folks

>> No.5228146

Socially I consider my self libertarian for the most part but I don't know what to think of the concepts of private property or capital anymore. :(

>> No.5228147

>>5228143
From each according to his ability, to each according to his need

>> No.5228159

>>5228143

new security dilemma

>> No.5228160

>>5228143
Here is an answer.
http://www.isj.org.uk/?id=702

>> No.5228169

Socialist.

>> No.5228174

>>5228147
But that's absolute garbage. Maybe not if you're some sort of fatalist, but you're only punishing achievers and rewarding cripples and lazies. that's not right. at all. I'm lazy, I work a half assed job and live in a tiny apartment with few posessions. I don't live well off, I'm lazy, this is how I should be rewarded. are people so dilusional that they work at the department store, come home to distract themselves with entertainment and then think they deserve to live as rich businessmen? I'm a fucking scumbag, let me live as well as I try to become a non-shitstain, right? if someone's a full blown cripple who can't do nothin' I understand it would be hard to come to terms with, but nobody actually believes they deserve to be pampered do they? we are not entitled to happiness. someone can show pity and be nice to him but that's their choice. you should never be FORCED into charity or good deeds. only forced away from real bad deeds.

>> No.5228184

>>5228143
I used to be normal, with above average success as far as success goes at that age, but now I'm displaying early schizo signs which happens to run in the family. What about that?

>> No.5228186

>>5228174

why didn't you go to university

>> No.5228195

>>5228174
Jesus, do shut up. First off, your views are utterly childish, taking hardly anything into consideration but the "hurrdurr ppl should not be forced help others" bullshit, as if it's just some existential shit, with no consequences at all beyond, oh, either we should or we shouldn't. Secondly, you're a cunt. And sure, it gets hairy there, what with forcing people and shit, but you're still a cunt.

>> No.5228201

The retard survives the river and thinks to be first behind the idea to throw the others it lest he be thrown in himself.

>> No.5228213
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5228213

>>5228174
The idea of "social justice" based on charity is just cancer, and people will realize it soon.
And since when is laziness a fucking disability?
Jesus fuckin christ, why the fuck am I trying to argue with you?
I think you are more hopeless than most of the disabled people you talked about. They can be helped, but someone so brainwashed by a capitalist society as you just won't ever thing like a human again, I'm afraid.

>> No.5228220
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5228220

>>5228146
(Not sure of the book specifically)

>> No.5228234

Can existential nihilist have any political label?

>> No.5228244

>>5228234
If he's smart and realises that nihilism doesn't impinge upon earthly practicality.

>> No.5228250

>>5228174
>achievers >lazies and cripples
>you should never be FORCED into charity or good deeds

Congratulations, you have been brainwashed by America Inc. Enjoy your job and tiny apartment, and don't forget to vote every 4 years.

>> No.5228251

>>5227990
http://www.spunk.org/texts/places/russia/sp001861/bolintro.html

fuck you

>> No.5228268

>>5228234
Anarchism

>> No.5228276

>>5228220

Just read the section of her wiki about her political beliefs and i feel like I'm around the same place she is, especially w/r/t anarchism without adjectives.

>> No.5228278

>>5228250
He hasn't even been brainwashed. It's a win/win for him. We shoot him down, he's safe. We agree, he's leading the pack. It's a case of rational retardism.

>> No.5228280

>>5228251

Outdated interpretation, analyses from before perestroika are condemned.

>> No.5228284
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5228284

>>5228234
No. You cannot derive an ought from an is.

>> No.5228292

>>5228284
Oughts exist ideologically. If they can not exist, how are we to exert action? If we are not to exert actions upon what is, are you not advocating an inert universe?

>> No.5228306

>>5228292
You can exert actions upon what is, but you need at least an ought first. I argue that existential nihilism per se provides none.

>> No.5228318

>>5228306

It would be ridiculous for an existential nihilist not to argue that there is nothing rather than there 'ought to be nothing', for his position is untenable.

>> No.5228363

>>5228051

Your loss.

>> No.5228366

>>5228250
>>5228213
>>5228195
>>5228186

okay, so I'm an idiot.

what are some alternative systems that do not involve me slaving my ass off for someone else's benefit or not being rewarded appropriately for the amount of effort I give life

>> No.5228368

>>5228363

what a true capitalist doesn't understand is that sometimes a loss can be unburdening.

>> No.5228373

>>5228368

Capitalism is the best economic system.

>> No.5228382
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5228382

>>5228366

Become a hermit, considering you:

A) want to reap precisely what you yourself have sown 'rewarded appropriately for the amount of effort I give life'

and B) that you are absolutely selfish and unwilling to help your fellow citizen or even human comrades. 'do not involve me slaving my ass off for someone else's benefit'


You are cancerous and should be allowed time to recuperate in isolation from the rest of society until you come to the conclusions that the western world came to in antiquity. You should also start with the greeks.

>> No.5228386
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5228386

>>5228366
>slaving my ass off for someone else's benefit or not being rewarded appropriately for the amount of effort I give life
Look, the retard described capitalism.

Look, the retard

>> No.5228388

>>5228373

it is the only economic system

>> No.5228396

>>5228366

The best and brightest succeed in Capitalism (notice how I capitalized the c). If you have to slave away your ass for minimum wage when you're 30+,bad news. You have failed.

>> No.5228399

Radical liberalism
>free markets
>small but efficient government
>individual freedom

>> No.5228402

>>5228386
I do not see how this is capitalism. I may get screwed in capitalism, but only so far as to keep me safe, no? I will be screwed further in communism. I would be screwed least in anarchism, but I do not have faith in myself to keep myself alive. I am not a superman. I do not expect riches I want to earn what I deserve though and I do not mind pitching in to the community pot for some governed muscle so I don't get shot because someone wants what I have

>> No.5228404
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5228404

>>5228396
I'm probably being baited like no tomorrow but what the fuck.

>> No.5228405

>>5228402

What people forget is that anarchy is a transitional state, not permanent. People will eventually seize power and small micro societies will pop up everywhere or something along the lines of that. Anarchy is bullshit.

>> No.5228406

>>5228402

what do you want?

what are you asking?

fuck off already, none of your statements align to an actual position, you 21st century cumstain.

>> No.5228409
File: 144 KB, 950x1217, paulette-goddard-modern-times.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
5228409

>>5228402
>>5228396

>> No.5228411

>>5228404

that infographic is bullshit, conrad hilton procured that cash.

>> No.5228412

>>5228404
Beware the perfect allocation.

>> No.5228413

>>5228411
And she inherited simply due to winning the gene lottery. Most capital gets procured this way.

>> No.5228415

>>5228411
So? She has it.

>> No.5228418

>>5228404

Paris Hilton is very clever. Just because she has the public image of a dumb blonde doesn't mean she is one. She had the brains to manipulate millions of people and make over 100 million dollars in the entertainment industry. Not everyone can do that. Also notice how that image says Tesla died in debt? And yes, while he did die without a penny earlier in his life he was a millionaire but screwed up. But the bottom line is, at one point, he was financially very successful.

Get fucked.

>> No.5228419

>>5228406
>none of your statements align to an actual position

Why do my statements have to "align with a position"? I've been stating my values and saying while it's not perfect, and I do not live a perfect life in it, capitalism best fits my values

then I asked if there is a better system for people who support individuality and being paid for what you achieve

if you are against individualism, I don't have much to discuss with you, right?

>> No.5228422
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5228422

>>5228418
She inherited her wealth, you mongoloid.

>> No.5228423

>>5228409

If you don't have the brains to move from the bottom level to the at least one of the upper levels, your life is meaningless.

>> No.5228424

>>5228422
you're against inheritance?

>> No.5228426

>>5228422

Not all of it. She still made millions on her own. I'm sooooo sorry that I don't know every little detail about some celebrity's life.

>> No.5228427

>>5228030
>americans love egalitarian
What the actual fuck? I can't think off any country in the first world with worse social security.


OT: left libertarian it is

>> No.5228430

>>5228424

Most leftists are. Pretty retarded in my opinion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJwUaVDIPXg

Watch this

>> No.5228432

>>5228404
The winner in Capitalism is whoever controls the market. If some dumb fuck entertainer is winning while someone intelligent is stuck in debt it's the general public is the problem, not the one making a living off it.

>> No.5228436

>>5228426
You can't make millions without having a shitload of capital to start with. The fact that she had her entire life set for her from the get go allows her to look like a retard behind a pair of CD players and in front of a camera.
>>5228432
>The winner in Capitalism is whoever controls the market.
Which goes directly against retarded claims like >>5228396
You can't control the market without having a baseline that allows it in the first place.

>> No.5228439

>>5228404
Paris Hilton is not successful. Success is making money, not just having money.

Tesla was successful. He made a small fortune from his inventions then risked it all on his attempt at wireless transmission and failed.

>> No.5228441

>>5228143
>what good can they do the world?
>good
What does it even supposed to mean?

>I don't wanna pay for them.
Implying the society gives a fuck.

If you start with killing off retards, you can go for stupid and lazy people next, then to the normals and continue the idiocy till there is nobody left. It's a slippery slope, nigga and the cost to keep them alive and provide a decent life for them is totally worth the amoral dystopia the alternative leads to.

>> No.5228445

>>5228439
She made tons of money herself. Hail, capitalism. Hail, Paris Hilton.

>> No.5228446

>>5228436

That's not a retarded claim. It's actually pretty accurate. Stop projecting your own insecurities upon others since you're a failure.

>> No.5228450

>>5228446
>projecting your own insecurities
Wow, really?

>> No.5228451

>>5228422

That still doesn't make the facts about Tesla untrue. That image with Hilton and Tesla is fucking stupid.

>> No.5228462

>>5228441
Not the person you responded to.

It doesn't have to be a slippery slope.
It's only that your argument requires it to be.

>> No.5228465

>>5228450

Yup. You clearly hate capitalism just because you haven't succeeded in a capitalist society and I'd be willing to bet you make minimum wage or maybe a few dollars more. But let me tell you something, dickface. What we have here isn't capitalism but more like state/crony capitalism. A corrupt form of capitalism which even I as a capitalist am against. So stop your whiny "hurr I hate capitalism" argument when you don't know the first thing about it.

>> No.5228466
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5228466

>>5228418
Is that your ideal? A mass manipulating cunt?

>>5228411 >>5228402 >>5228396 >>5228373 >>5228044 >>5228027
IS THAT THE IDEAL OF ALL OF YOU FAGGOTS?

Jesus fuckin christ, just listen to what you're saying. You have all been brainwashed by the ruling class, and want to live by the rules of the Almighty Market in a world where individuals do nothing else but manipulate each other and try to fuck over others. Where bankers and speculanats make a hundred times more than great inventors who make the life of their fellow men better.
You people make me sick.

>> No.5228468

>>5228445
Then she is successful and you are basically raging against people because they have the audacity to spend their own money on things you don't want them to buy. How dare they!

>> No.5228475

>>5228466
What real alternatives are there?

>> No.5228476

>>5228462
So why letting stupid and lazy people alive? You can use same "arguments" against them.

>> No.5228477

>>5228466
>mass manipulation
Are you suggesting that Paris Hilton is some sort of devious mastermind capable of making people spend money against their will?

>> No.5228481

>>5228466

> You have all been brainwashed by the ruling class

Oh fuck off. My father was born in poverty in a developing nation but over the period of about 35 years managed to make around 6 million dollars. Nobody kept him down, he was smart, worked hard (over 90 hours/week), invested very wisely and all with the hope of making life better and easier for his wife and children. There was no "ruling class" or "establishment" that kept him down. You're delusional and need to stop blaming other people for your problems.

>> No.5228488

>>5228481
>working 90h a week
>no ruling class that kept him down
Yes, definitely brainwashed.

>> No.5228491

>>5228477
Are you suggesting that the system doesn't create a "get money and spend it on shit" mentality?

>> No.5228492

Zionist

>> No.5228493

>>5228488

So what you're saying is that nobody should work hard to achieve their goals and millions of dollars should fall from the sky and into the pockets of the working class.


Typical leftist.

>> No.5228502
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5228502

>>5228493
>everyone who succeeds works hard
>everyone who succeeds works 12 hours a week every day
>there is no ruling class only achievers and lazy people

I feel sorry for you and your tiny brain.

>> No.5228505

A little off topic, but /lit/ related. I didn't understand Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas. All though references to The American Dream and Horatio Alger, but never really a point made. He comes across as a capitalist but has this aura of radical leftism. What were his views? Was he sober enough to really have any?

>> No.5228507

>>5228493

Actually he put in the hours to become rich. Was it not enough that he should live comfortably? Did he need to excel over and above other fathers and workers? Was it out of love or pride that he did become the establishment?

Where does the capitalist draw the line where his greed will be sated?

The answer is that he never draws lines for his greed, and that's what separates the poor from the rich.

>> No.5228510

Socialist.

>> No.5228513

>>5228507
He certainly had no time/money/will to educate this brat.

>> No.5228516

>>5228491
No. This is a mentality that exists in most people under different economic systems. If you don't share this mentality that's fine, but its arrogant to assume that everyone who fails to think as you do must be "manipulated by the system".

>> No.5228518

>>5228502

I feel sorry for your lazy ass.

>>5228507

He did the draw the line. He retired early and still managed to be a good father. You need to work hard to get somewhere in society, you simpleton.

>> No.5228520

>>5228439
The interest on the money she inherited is making a fuckload of money. Checkmate.

>> No.5228521

>>5228502
You don't need to be rich to achieve. I bet the dude spray painting that and photographing that feels like he's achieving something and he's probably not rich. You can achieve by enjoying life. Who needs a lot of consumer goods?

Besides, I think a lot of people like to pretend to be progressive but when the curtains fall they're just capitalists who like to shrug off the shame of being in an imperfect system. All talk no intention. It just makes them feel good about themselves to denounce the people they see as guilty.

>> No.5228522

>>5228493
You don't even attempt to look at a slightly bigger picture.

Nobody says that you can't get decent money without being born into wealth, but working hard alone won't get you anywhere. If every single person working hard would get rewarded for it, the system would implode. Do you think the kids making your PC don't work hard? How many of them will ever be able to have a life like some lazy middle class faggot inhering some cash? (let's even ignore the ruling class, the difference is too ridiculous)

Sure, you do have a chance to improve your situation but billions of people don't and never will be rewarded for their hard work. Sounds like a great system, let's reach the top, fuck the rest.

>> No.5228523

>>5228513

>Brat

Now you're just referring to petty insults in some meek effort to hurt me? Listen, poorfag. I know your father was some broke loser who couldn't properly provide for his children, but just because he was a failure, doesn't mean you have to cry and whine about other people's dad's who weren't failures.

>> No.5228526

>>5228518
this sounds like fable

>> No.5228527

>>5228521
>It just makes them feel good about themselves to denounce the people they see as guilty.
Aren't you doing the same by calling them out? Hey, at least you aren't a hypocrite!

>>5228523
>Now you're just referring to petty insults in some meek effort to hurt me?
>Listen, poorfag.
Clever.

>> No.5228528

>>5228526
haha

>> No.5228533

>>5228409
Is it weird if all I want to do is "shoot at you"

>> No.5228535

>>5228527

But you are a poorfag. It's not an insult, but a fact.

>> No.5228538

Radical Centrist http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radical_center_(politics)

>> No.5228539

>>5228518
>He did the draw the line. He retired early and still managed to be a good father. You need to work hard to get somewhere in society, you simpleton.

But was he a good father, do you honestly believe that his becoming rich from rags was the result of being a good man?

Do you think that you were raised well if you honestly believe that the accumulation of money garnered from the hard work and meagre property of the poor is a noble cause? You are a crusader on a mission of the most sinister kind. You would be more aptly placed as executioner if you wanted to expound a good life.

>> No.5228541

>>5228520
So she's invested her inherited wealth wisely, and somehow that's a bad thing that other people are able to leverage her wealth to make a profit for themselves and for her?

>> No.5228543

>>5228527
You're missing the point. I don't give a shit what they do to feel good about themselves. I'm just noting the hypocritical disconnect between their outward "politics" and their actual beliefs.

I don't really see how what I'm doing is being a hypocrite. I'm making a similar gesture to those I talk down on, for different reasons, on a smaller scale and while not betraying my own politics.

>> No.5228544

>>5228538
Holy shit, I never knew this existed, but this describes me perfectly.

>> No.5228550

>>5228539

>that the accumulation of money garnered from the hard work and meagre property of the poor is a noble cause?

He did most of the work himself. And yes he was a good father. Your daddy should have taught you not to be jealous, envious and hateful towards others.

>> No.5228554

>>5228544
If you want to know more (and haven't read it already) check out JS Mill's On Liberty, its probably the most relevant text on radical centrism/liberalism.

The Economist reports news from a radical centrist viewpoint.

>> No.5228564

What's the name for the one where politics bores you?

>> No.5228566
File: 98 KB, 299x441, 1350973828_third_eye.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
5228566

>>5228550

Luckily this is a personal matter since you decided to present your family as the exemplar of capitalist virtue, else i would feel cheated with you attacking my person.

It is out of knowing people whose families have crumbled from others' steady fortune-making. Were they wrong to have less money than more? They certainly worked all their lives only for their children to escape the cycle through debt.

The man who becomes rich is not by the sweat of his brow, but by the poverty of others. I hope if you told the truth of your father's story, you do not disappoint those who he had ruined.

>> No.5228568

>>5228564
Ignoramus.

>> No.5228570

>>5228564
Apathetic

>> No.5228572

>>5228568
No, idiotes, it was a trap.

>> No.5228582

I care too much about things, how do I become a nihilist?

>> No.5228585

>>5228566

He owned a 24 hour cafe and sold bagels, coffee, sandwiches and other food/drinks. He put together most of the meals himself. I don't understand how selling food means my dad got rich by the poverty of others. Nobody who worked for him was in poverty and he treated his employees fairly well. Leftists are batshit fucking insane. I've never heard so much drivel in my life.

>> No.5228587

>>5228518
>He did draw the line
>90 hours/week

Assuming 8 hours of sleep per day and distributing the 90 hours equally throughout the week, that amounts to 3.1 hours of free time per day. Suppose he takes one hour to eat per day and attend to personal hygiene and subtract another 30 minutes to account for various frictional losses of time; that leaves him with approximately an hour and a half to pursue personal interests outside of work or to care for his family--almost no time at all. Ninety minutes flies past in an instant.

Now, supposing that he wanted to devote more time to personal interests or his family, he would have to reduce his amount of sleep, making him both less productive and less happy.

Isn't this depressing? Because I certainly think is--the fact that he devoted so much time to work, all for the sake of amassing a small fortune, that such a choice would even be necessary. For thirty-five years, he sacrificed so much for the sake of money.

>> No.5228590

>>5228587

He drew the line when he retired early. Are you blind or illiterate?

>> No.5228591

>>5228585
You honestly don't see how acquiring money leads to other people having lesser money?

>> No.5228592

>>5228585

>Implying i'm a 'leftist'

Okay, nice left/right dichotomy.

The fact of the matter is that when you gain money, others lose money. The fact of your father being rich is only made possible by others being poor. The idea that your father is honest and upright conflicts with his wealth; which by its procurement he damaged other's wealth.

This is not insane. It is how to become rich.

>> No.5228594

>>5228590
Are you retarded? You think that is okay, even if it was "only" for 35 years? You seriously call that "drawing the line"? That's fucking ridiculous.

>> No.5228595

>>5228592
>Seriously thinking economics is zero-sum
gr8 b8

>> No.5228599

>>5228591
>>5228592

ITT: Mad poor people who have to blame others for their failures.

Good luck with that revolution faggots, I'll be in Monaco.

>> No.5228605

>>5228599

Spending money? Good way to waste your time chum.

>> No.5228606

>>5228594

Who are you to tell people how to live and what goals to have? My father wanted my family to have a small fortune, to ensure his kids and grand kids and so on have a future and don't have to grow up in the gutter like he did. And I am grateful for that because I have lots of opportunities in life now, and so will my kids.

>> No.5228608

>>5228605

>Spending money

No. Living. Working (did I mention there is no income tax?).

>> No.5228609

>>5228595

>introducing production

why do you want to evade the truth?

>> No.5228610

>>5228599
Great argument, mate. Clearly shows that your dad invested in your education. Almost have to feel sorry for the 35 wasted years.

>> No.5228618

>>5228610

Arguing with you is like trying to argue with a pigeon. It's just not possible because you're dumb.

>> No.5228619

>>5228608
It's like you enjoy being a parasite.

>> No.5228621

>>5228608

Enjoy tiny monaco as much as you can.

>> No.5228622

>>5228609
>Thinking that my rich dad didn't improve the quality of life for humankind by advancing technology
>Maybe he should just give his money to alcoholics on the side of the road

>> No.5228623

>>5228619
Who doesn't like having people to dinner?

>> No.5228625

>>5228606
And the fact that he should have to sacrifice so much of his own life for an intellectually and creatively unrewarding career that probably shortened his lifespan by a considerable amount JUST to ensure that his family and descendants had a 'future' and 'opportunities' instead of being horrifically mired in poverty illustrates precisely what is wrong with your line of thought.

You say you are 'grateful', but if you really cared about your parents, you would find it horrific. In the end, you are simply selfish and unfilial. I, personally, would RATHER be in poverty myself than have my parents sacrifice so much of their own lives.

>> No.5228628

>>5228622

>He owned a 24 hour cafe and sold bagels, coffee, sandwiches and other food/drinks.
>he advanced mankind

Sounds like you're an idiot.

>> No.5228629

>>5228618
How unexpected, an other empty post. Forget education paid by daddy, did you even finish high school yet?

>> No.5228631

>>5228606
btw I hope you realize that money has significantly diminishing returns and that if your dad was optimizing for the long-term happiness of his family and descendants he pretty much completely fucked that up

>> No.5228632

>>5228623
As long they aren't black...

>> No.5228634

>>5228628
>>5228629
I hope you realize that this is an anonymous imageboard and that everyone, not just the person you're talking to, is called 'Anonymous'.

>> No.5228635
File: 890 KB, 2993x2486, badnews.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
5228635

>retards believe the left advocates not working diligently.

Actually it means working harder for more people, rather than just for yourself.

>> No.5228637

>>5228628
>Thinking only one person can engage with you on an online image board at a time.
That's not me.

>> No.5228639

>>5228619

>Working in a country with no income tax=parasite

Hahaha. Sorry my money won't be going to your welfare check. Faggot.

>>5228625

It wasn't my parents. It was just my dad who worked that much. Despite that, we still spent time together on the weekends, sometimes when I was a kid I'd stay up and wait for him to get home from work so we could cook, play chess or whatever. We took vacations a couple times a year. My dad balanced his time well. He's a hard worker. You need to stop pretending like you everything about my family and I, because you really know nothing. The fact that you think you can tell people what sort of life they should lead illustrates exactly what kind of closeted, authoritarian faggot you are.

>> No.5228641

>>5228634
>>5228637


>implying he explained what his father did

was he not the anon's father that we've been talking about for half a thread?

>> No.5228642

>>5228634
Implying it matters if the idiot you respond to is the same idiot as before.

>> No.5228648

>>5228639

Started off this thread righteous, ended up furious. Leave the thread mate.

>> No.5228650

>>5228629

>an other

It's one word, (ANOTHER) you uneducated moron. Jesus Christ and you gave the balls to call other people dumb.

>> No.5228653

>>5228650

moreso
more so

n-no he has to compound it

>> No.5228654

>>5228641
I'm someone else and my father was a hypothetical construct to designed to illustrate that there is something more important that the zero-sum distribution of wealth within an economy: the median standard of living of all those within said economy, and how it changes over time.

Perhaps I should have just come out and said that.

>> No.5228655

>>5228650

have*

>> No.5228657

>>5228639
>Working in a country with no income tax=parasite
Glad you learned at least that. The conversation wasn't a complete waste of time!

>>5228650
>you need to type perfect in your third language on the Internet
Well, sorry. I'll try my best from now on.

>> No.5228665

>>5228654

> to designed to

Bend over, senpai.

>> No.5228670

>>5228657

So what you're saying is everyone in Monaco is a parasite because they don't pay an income tax?

lel

Where are you from, anon?

$10 it's some Nordic shit hole

>> No.5228671

>>5228654

Fucking go back to class.

>> No.5228672

>>5228665
;_;

>> No.5228673

>>5228639
>I was a kid I'd stay up and wait for him to get home from work so we could cook, play chess or whatever.

Look, I'm just going by the numbers that you gave me, mate. There are only seven days in a week, there are only twenty-four hours in each day, and unless your father was some freak of nature he had a biological need to sleep approximately eight hours a day, and you're telling me he worked ninety hours each week.

I'm not 'assuming' anything. I am simply taking the information which you gave me and bringing it to its logical conclusion, and I was incredibly generous in assuming he only did 1.5 hours of non-personal activity outside of sleep and work. You cannot really avoid arithmetic.

>He's a hard worker.
I am not trying to attack the character of your father or something. That is obvious, yes, he worked hard.

>because you really know nothing
Except for what you literally posted in the thread, yes.

>The fact that you think you can tell people what sort of life they should lead
BY DEFINITION, people desire to indulge in their personal interests. Are YOU retarded?

>> No.5228674

>>5228670
Try a bit down south. Thanks for the 10 bucks though.

happypoorfag.jpg

>> No.5228675

>>5228670
Your father has betrayed you.

>> No.5228677

>>5228671
hue hue got me

>> No.5228679

>>5228674

You pay too much tax either way. Dumb socialists, when will they learn?

>> No.5228681

>>5228675

No he hasn't, this is not Star Wars. Fuck off back to Comic Con, child.

>> No.5228683

>>5228679
Oh, no, paying money to sustain the system that allowed you to make money in the first place. You clearly enjoy being a parasite. Why?

>> No.5228687

>>5228654
Are you fucking stupid?

>the zero-sum distribution of wealth within an economy
The phrase "zero-sum distribution" is grammatically correct but is completely meaningless. You clearly have no idea what "zero sum" even means.

>the median standard of living of all those within said economy
And an individual anecdote is somehow supposed to say something about the median attribute of all participants in some economy? Do you even understand what a median is in the first place?

>something more important
This is called "income mobility" and your little "example" is simply inane.

>> No.5228691

>>5228673
>BY DEFINITION, people desire to indulge in their personal interests.

Yes, retard, and my father did take days off. As said earlier, he balanced his time. Sometimes he worked a few hours less so he could come home early and spend more time with his family. His schedule shifted and changed over the years. At some point he hired extra staff, Bottom line is he worked his ass off. He did more work than most people in this thread could even imagine. And just a reminder he came from a developing nation.

>> No.5228693

>Your test scores indicate that you are a tough-minded ultra-progressive;

Well, OK, seems pretty straightforward and -

>this is the political profile one might associate with a journalist.

- terribly, terribly, flattering, oh wow.What I am; what I wish to be.

An alluring combination of reality and idealization. I've not found a better test, for them who insist on pigeonholing:

http://slackhalla.org/~demise/test/socialattitude.php

>> No.5228695

>>5228683

>Oh, no, paying money to sustain the system
>Sustain the system

Yes. Because I really want my money going to welfare queens, the unnecessarily large military, the fucking financial aid packages for countries who give nothing in return, yeah I totally want to pay 50% of my income to the government!

There is a word for taxes, and it's called stealing.

Truthfully, I don't mind paying a little tax. But the stupid things the government does with the tax dollars, oh man. Fuck that. You're a brainwashed moron.


In Monaco, there is no income tax, and the society is very well off and modern. Pull your head out of your ass mate.

>> No.5228704

>>5228695
>profiting from security and services the government provides you
>not wanting to pay for it
How are you different from a welfare queen outside of being more expensive?

>Monaco, there is no income tax
Oh, I wonder why!

>and the society is very well off and modern
While Norway got a huge income tax and the society is even better off. How is this even possible? It's like there are other factors but evil taxes.

>> No.5228706

>>5228691
Ah, so it was only perhaps 80 hours a week. What a big difference that makes, 2 times a normal workweek instead of 2.25 times.

I'm being sarcastic here, if you can't notice.

>He did more work than most people in this thread could even imagine.
I have no idea how or why this is remotely relevant to the discussion. I am not saying your father did not work hard, in fact, that is completely contrary to what I have said. While we're flinging personal anecdotes around, I should probably note that every single person on this board who went to an elite high school and/or an elite university probably worked harder than your father on far more intellectually challenging material, so stop assuming that people don't understand what that amount of work feels like--I can guarantee you that spending every single one of your 20 waking hours per day solving problem sets for graduate-level physics for months on end is a living hell that neither you nor your father have experienced or could withstand. I would also advise you to not be so quick to assume that people here don't have parents who worked equivalently hard.

>>5228695
>the fucking financial aid packages for countries who give nothing in return
Literally an inconsequential part of the budget.

>welfare queens
Essentially mythical based on scientific studies.

>the unnecessarily large military
>there are certain countries which misuse taxpayer money, THEREFORE this is an intrinsic and essential property of every government ever
Brilliant argument m8.

>But the stupid things the government does with the tax dollars, oh man.
See above.

>In Monaco, there is no income tax
I don't care about how the tax is distributed I'm just saying your opposition to taxation in general is simply retarded.

>> No.5228710

>>5228695
To elaborate on >>5228706, the idea that people should simply demand lower taxation instead of demanding that government spend tax money more wisely is absolutely, incomprehensibly stupid. The government will have less money, but they'll use it just as irresponsibly.

Also, as >>5228704 noted, the welfare capitalist countries such as Norway have high taxes and even better societies, rating very highly in measures of citizen happiness and standard of living.

>> No.5228719

>>5228143
Iam a big advocate of Eugenics and in general believe the weak should be discarded from birth as the Spartans tend to do with newborn they whom they deemed undesirable.

To be fair people like Stephen Hawking etc are invaluable to society despite their condition. Yet, downies, or people with an IQ lower than a 100 (for lack of a better reference) hardly, if ever, will contribute to society. Especially since labor of the laypeople can be increasingly automised.

I was never too sure why people frown upon eugenics so much. Sure we shouldn't have some Lebensborn program fueled by the government. But people should be more open to the idea that it is better to abort a downie than to let it live... imo.

>> No.5228720

>>5228704

>Rapists get short prison sentences
>Kebabs invading
>Political correctness rampant

>Better

Nice try.

>How are you different from a welfare queen outside of being more expensive?

Because I don't depend on others to support me.

>The government provides security

Haha. Yes they do. The NSA is great!

You my socialist friend, need to take the giant government dick out of your faggot ass.

>>5228706

>I don't care about how the tax is distributed I'm just saying your opposition to taxation in general is simply retarded.

I'm not opposed to paying taxes, I'm opposed to paying too many taxes.

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtpgkX588nM

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5m1J32wABiI

Turn your fucking brain on

>> No.5228721

>>5228719

I'm with you on this. So basically we get rid of Western Europe, Africa, Asia and fat people.

>> No.5228725

Itt: NEET's

>> No.5228726

>>5228725

>Poor NEET's

>> No.5228729

>>5228635
>create business
>create jobs
>this is somehow purely selfish and has no intrinsic value
>expects the gov will fix it for you

top lel slave mentality m8

>> No.5228731

Supernazi

>> No.5228734
File: 141 KB, 640x640, 1399148095428.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
5228734

I need to stop getting into these arguments. It takes hours and hours for us to have enough back-and-forth discussion before all the elementary and trivial points (of which people seem to be remarkably good at being totally unaware) have been exhausted and I don't think I've ever improved intellectually in any aspect, ever, by participating in one of these arguments instead of just skimming over them. It's like none of you actually possess the ability to think critically instead of regurgitating the same points and standard responses over and over again, and that goes for everyone involved regardless of what "side" of the argument you are on.

I mean, just look at this shit. We have >>5228695 doing the whole "taxation is stealing" shit while committing a million errors in reasoning that other people have thankfully pointed out for me, >>5228691 dispensing with even more of the romanticized and probably-exaggerated anecdote, >>5228687 bothering to reply to an idiotic shitposter, >>5228683 making a reply about the utility of taxation that is so obvious it should not have been needed in the first place and peppering it with some standard ad hominem, >>5228679 with a meaninglessly general criticism of taxation, >>5228635 with the lovely strawman argument directed at nobody in particular, and Christ I don't want to keep reading any more of this thread. Oh, wait, >>5228720 has just chimed in with some MILTON FRIEDMAN and RON FUCKING PAUL videos, oh boy, it sure is nice when people who can't even define an indifference curve like to act like they know some economics, and let's not even get into how nobody from hardcore Maoists to Larry Summers bothers taking the Austrian school seriously.

I just--I cannot take it anymore.

>> No.5228737

>>5228720
>Better
Yes, going by objective data, Norway is clearly better.

>Because I don't depend on others to support me.
Yeah, no. You depend on state support as much as the next welfare queen if not more. There is more than social security. Try to think for a second.

>Haha. Yes they do. The NSA is great!
>the state only pays for NSA

>> No.5228741

>>5228734

Then fuck off you anime posting faggot.

>> No.5228743

Does disillusionment count?

>> No.5228751

>>5228737

>You depend on state support

No, I really don't. I'm self employed, grow most of my own food and don't depend on anyone else for support. You statists truly are faggots.

>> No.5228753

>>5228734
>indifference curve
I'm indifferent to your post. Does that count?

>> No.5228757

>>5228734

You're the idiot.

>> No.5228759

>>5228720
>>Rapists get short prison sentences
Because they realize that the deterrence value of imprisonment is negligible for some crimes and diminishes quickly as imprisonment time increases and logically choose to focus on ensuring that criminals do not repeat their offenses instead of satisfying the public's bloodlust.

>>Kebabs invading
It's funny how, even despite their lax immigration restrictions, which are essentially unrelated to their welfare capitalist policies, they still have such high citizen happiness and standards of living, isn't it?

>>Political correctness rampant
Nice try, but this isn't even remotely related to welfare capitalism, and political correctness has been rampant everywhere.

>Because I don't depend on others to support me.
roads etc

>>The government provides security
This point is literally inconsequential in a discussion about Scandinavian welfare capitalism because they don't spend absurd amounts of their budget on military like the US, which I freely admit does waste taxpayer money very badly.

>Turn your fucking brain on
I was in high school when I watched Milton Friedman videos and it wasn't very long afterwards when I realized that, despite the quality of his academic work, the massive oversimplifications in his popular videos are quite difficult to ignore.

>> No.5228760

>>5228751
So you live in a bubble outside of any states jurisdiction? You don't use any money? Do tell more.

>> No.5228771

>>5228759

Rehabilitation of serious offenders is bullshit. These people (i.e. child rapists) are a menace to society. Would you leave you child with a "rehabilitated" child rapist?


>It's funny how, even despite their lax immigration restrictions, which are essentially unrelated to their welfare capitalist policies, they still have such high citizen happiness and standards of living, isn't it?


They won't in about 20-30 years.

>Nice try, but this isn't even remotely related to welfare capitalism, and political correctness has been rampant everywhere.

Political correctness isn't rampant everywhere. It's only rampant in western countries where fucking "gender neutral" bathrooms exists and having different views about certain events in history can land you in prison.

>> No.5228780

>>5228734
*tips fedora*

>> No.5228781
File: 70 KB, 680x754, 10350638_10203377193503693_8029660152244999387_n.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
5228781

>>5228760


Do you mind if I let my trigender, pansexual, transracial friend fuck your ass? You fucking dumb socialist prat.

>> No.5228789

>>5228781
>implying you have friends

>> No.5228801

>>5228789

I do have friends. And unlike yours, they aren't imaginary.

>> No.5228809

I'm a Baptist Christian and don't participate in politics.

>> No.5228815

>>5228789
>>5228801
Hey guys, God here. Just a friendly reminder to let you know that there's a world outside of 4chan. =]

>> No.5228819

>>5228771
>Rehabilitation of serious offenders is bullshit. These people (i.e. child rapists) are a menace to society. Would you leave you child with a "rehabilitated" child rapist?
>I have no idea what Scandinavian prisons do to prevent recidivism but I'll cherry-pick a specific crime and talk out of my ass

For your information: chemical castration, which completely removes sexual desire, has been shown to work quite well on child molesters.

>They won't in about 20-30 years.
Wow, with that sort of economic prediction you could probably write five academic papers in the top-ranked journals and easily get a spot on the Harvard faculty! Mind showing me your model? What sort of theoretical basis does it use? Is this an extension of the typical DSGE model? Where's your data? Don't be shy, I'm quite curious to see how you managed to look so far into the future!

>Political correctness isn't rampant everywhere. It's only rampant in western countries where fucking "gender neutral" bathrooms exists and having different views about certain events in history can land you in prison.
It is, in general, rampant in countries where a significant proportion of the country has such a high standard of living that they can afford to band together over imaginary problems instead of real ones, and in all honesty I think I would very much rather have to deal with the former than the latter.

>> No.5228851

>>5228819

>For your information: chemical castration, which completely removes sexual desire, has been shown to work quite well on child molesters.

There are a lot of side effects and it doesn't work as well as most people think. It's also not a permanent solution. Also nice of you to answer my question about leaving your kid with a rehabilitated child rapist. If you wouldn't be comfortable with that then you're a hypocrite.

In 20-30 years, you will see a rise in social issues. This will further trigger a surge in nationalism (which I should add is already rampant in many countries in Europe such as Greece, Hungary and the UK). If you think for a minute that everyone will allow immigrants to become the majority you're very mistaken. I am not a racist person but history has shown that nationalism rises and immigrants are often used as a scapegoat.

But anyway, I'm going to sleep. Can't waste too much time on leftists.

>> No.5228876

>>5228809

lel

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