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/lit/ - Literature

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File: 14 KB, 280x249, roland-barthes.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5224266 No.5224266[DELETED]  [Reply] [Original]

>Pierre Menard, Author of the Quixote: 1939
>Death of the Author: 1967

Why are the French such hacks?

>> No.5224281
File: 15 KB, 244x300, Foucault5.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5224281

>>5224266
they're not

>> No.5224291

So now writing a short story on a theme means all following critical theory about this theme is plagiarism?

>> No.5224292
File: 50 KB, 400x264, le_cigare_de_lacan.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5224292

>>5224281
hu hu hu

>> No.5224312

>>5224291
Well, no, but in this particular case obviously yes.

>> No.5224313
File: 334 KB, 710x488, william kurtz wimsatt.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5224313

its not a french concept

plebb

>> No.5224349

>>5224266
lel why not?

Nothing worth reading out of France since Valery.

Lacan = ripped off Proust
Barthes = Borges
Derrida = Borges, Heidegger
Foucault = antihumanist who deliberately gave people AIDS

>> No.5224380

>>5224266
It's not so much that the French are all hacks (though most of them are), but that Borges is more based than any French author published in the last 92 years by an order of magnitude.

>> No.5224383

>>5224349
>antihumanist
nothing wrong with that
anthropocentrism is stupid
>who deliberately gave people AIDS
lol

>> No.5224390

>>5224380
Borges was known for his criticism at some point, what french authors did he enjoy from the early 20th century?

>> No.5224419
File: 498 KB, 500x233, 1364337408430.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5224419

>>5224380
THANK YOU BASED BORGES

>> No.5224427

>>5224419
why would someone put that quote on that stupid fucking .gif. I hate tumblr/

>> No.5224432

>>5224349
>>5224380
>>5224419
I'm sure you faggots cannot explicate on what they "stole" from Borges. Idiots.

>> No.5224433

>>5224380
Could someone recommend me some of his books?

>> No.5224439

lel Borges plagiarized Twain.

Funes the Memorious: in 'Life on the Mississippi' Twain unfolds this exact same story, the exact same character (only in the deep south instead of Uruguay), and he does it in one and a half pages. Borges takes that shit, blows it up and boom, he's a genius.

On his collection of stories 'A Universal History of Infamy' there's at least two stories that he also stole from Twain. They are true stories, but his account is based on Twain's account, according to Borges himself.

>> No.5224443

>>5224432
shut up faggot

>> No.5224449

>>5224439
>On his collection of stories 'A Universal History of Infamy' there's at least two stories that he also stole from Twain.
does not provide proof. nice, faggot.

>> No.5224458

>>5224449
It's right there you dumb faggot

>> No.5224461

>>5224449
>does not provide proof
he says so himself on the fucking book. It's in his very own fucking prologue, faggot. Have you read the damn book? Do you want me to spoonfeed you everything?

faggot

>> No.5224462

>>5224433
Ficciones has 'Pierre Menard'; so does Labyrinths (a compendium).

>> No.5224471

>>5224281
>Sophist who dies of AIDS
>Not a hack

Topkek

>> No.5224483

>>5224471
Faggot

>> No.5224491

I like how constructive and far-sighted this thread is.

>> No.5224511

>>5224461
Provide the actual quote, faggot

>> No.5224526

>>5224511
Do you have a mental illness?

>> No.5224533

>>5224526
No, you're just a faggot.

>> No.5224545

>>5224533
No you're a faggot.

>> No.5224550
File: 68 KB, 838x393, cap3.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5224550

>>5224511
>from http://libgen.org/book/index.php?md5=b71a5b77bb499147a5d8aafcff23112a

How fucking lazy can you be

>> No.5224556

>>5224550
>hur that implicates Borges with plagiarizing
you're retarded

>> No.5224559
File: 65 KB, 685x415, Borges.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5224559

>>5224511
Here
http://biblio3.url.edu.gt/Libros/borges/infamia.pdf
you can find a pdf version (in spanish) of the book. My mistake, it's not in the prologue, it's the index at the end. Pic related.

>> No.5224565

>>5224432
In Pierre Menard: Author of the Quixote Borges tells the story of a writer who goes as far as learning 16th century Spanish to re-write the Quixote. This story puts in discussion the relation between the author and the work, from this, Barthes could have taken the idea that the author and the work are separate entities and so should be thought when someone tries to understand an specific text.

I don't care if this is 100% as I have only read Ficciones from Borges and only entries of Wikipedia about Barthes.

>> No.5224567

>>5224556
I'm not the guy you were talking with, I was just fed up with your incredible bad faith. Now clear up whatever you have to clear up with him, I'm out of here.

>> No.5224572

>>5224565
*100% bullshit
sorry

>> No.5224585
File: 38 KB, 552x400, foucault2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5224585

Hey, I heard this thread was full of faggots and naturally I decided to stop by.

Wanna see what's inside my briefcase?

>> No.5224597
File: 411 KB, 590x557, oscar_wilde_did.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5224597

>>5224585
Fuko pls

>> No.5224613

>there are people on /lit/ who can't accept the death of the author concept

What? You didn't think that when your book was canonized that readers would care about you and your life, did you?

>> No.5224633

>>5224613
they do care, though.

>> No.5224638

>>5224633
Do they, dub dub?

>> No.5224660
File: 86 KB, 220x323, Getaloadathisdyke.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5224660

>>5224613

"Most pernicious of French imports [into American academia] is the notion that there is no person behind a text. Is there anything more affected, aggressive, and relentlessly concrete than a Parisian intellectual behind his/her turgid text?"

>> No.5224665

>>5224638
>not getting devil trips mark of the beast

>> No.5224684
File: 62 KB, 526x560, eae18b43d99c993e8127cdbee547338882aa1eaec644f01597d3a28e21fb1da3.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5224684

>>5224665

>> No.5224687

>>5224660
That's wrong, though.

>> No.5224688

>>5224660
based Paglia

>> No.5224691

>>5224483
Yes, yes he was.

>> No.5224729
File: 218 KB, 500x374, yablewit.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5224729

>>5224665

>> No.5224739

>>5224390
He was a big fan of Flaubert.

>> No.5224826

>>5224660
> you will never snort coke off paglias tits

>> No.5224834

>>5224383
But he did.

You don't know the story? He was really mad that he was going to die of AIDS and told his friend that he wanted to take out as many people as he could with him.

I guess he didn't value his own philosophy enough and neither do I.

>> No.5225728
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5225728

>>5224266

They became despondent after the mid-twentieth century, when France lost her prized status as the world's cultural nexus to America.

>> No.5225746

>>5225728
>France lost her prized status as the world's cultural nexus to America.
>to America

Ouch. Kind of like Juan Valdez losing his coffee cred to Starbucks.

>> No.5225757

If I could nuke one European country, it would be France, no question.

What a worthless, cancerous people.

Apparently they think so too, seeing as France has the highest depression and suicide rate in Europe

>> No.5225766

I'm almost certain I've read this exact thread before. like a month ago. In particular I vividly recall this post:
>>5224432

I guess this is what the Argentinians call 'deja vu'

>> No.5225774

daily reminder that lit never comes to its own conclusions and simply repeats what they hear, never questioning the premises, in order convey that they have knowledge of the current "issues" which conveys to themselves that they're not total liar hacks who don't actually like to read or think

>> No.5225803

>>5224462
Just read the whole Collected Fictions. It's 500-odd pages, but easy to blow through in ~a week bc it's all (rather short) short stories.
The Hurley translation is excellent, as well.

>> No.5225812
File: 51 KB, 487x620, Orson-Welles-pipe-46.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5225812

>>5225746

Deal

>> No.5225817
File: 30 KB, 473x405, faulkner-7.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5225817

>>5225746

With

>> No.5225819

>>5225817
Not today, motherfucker.

>> No.5225821
File: 18 KB, 416x500, jimi.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5225821

>>5225746

It

>> No.5225823

>>5224439
m8 if in the prologue he admits that he basically was just rly interested in the stories and wanted to "rephrase" them I doubt that counts as plagiarism
anyway it was his first book give the guy a break he wrote more than enough afterwards

>> No.5225824

>>5225819
c-c-c-c-c-combobreaker

>> No.5225827
File: 24 KB, 395x379, 7fbb43f6a1317ab881f3f203e0b15c66.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5225827

>>5225746

Faggot

>> No.5225829

>>5225823
>m8 if in the prologue he admits that he basically was just rly interested in the stories and wanted to "rephrase" them I doubt that counts as plagiarism
but when barthes does this it's plagiarism huh

>> No.5225832

>>5225819

God damn you.

>> No.5225835

>>5225829
idk, I'm not the OP and I haven't read Barthes
I will defend big based borges 2 the death tho

>> No.5225845

>>5225835
borges was a lazy faggot whose only talent was summarizing other people's ideas.

>> No.5225855

>>5225845
well come on friend did you even read anything beyond Universal History
unless you are casting bait

>> No.5225874

argentina fella here, I dont get all the praise borges gets here.. he wrote like he had no blood in his veins, like he never fucked or something.. not even the best argentinian writer in my opinion

>> No.5225878

>>5225874
i don't doubt it. who are your fave argentinian writers

>> No.5225901

>>5225878
Arlt and Walsh are two "classic" argentinian authors that I consider to be much better than borges, they didint have that super academic european vibe for sure but at least they showed some emotion my god

>> No.5226412

>>5225901
While I may disagree with you about Borges, I will admit I'm entirely unfamiliar with other Argentinian lit (but would like to not be). What would you rec from those 2 (hopefully with a good English translation, my Spanish is nowhere near good enough yet)?

>> No.5226635

>>5224349
Most of them did actually admit to being influenced by Borges you know. Foucault's Order of Things is inspired by Borges. Recontextualizing an idea that arose out of fiction into a new framework for thinking about the world doesn't exactly mark them as ripoffs or hacks.

Yale: Oh, we've invented the Academy of the Overrated - for such notables as Gustav Mahler..."

Mary: "And Isak Dinesen, Karl Jung."

Yale: "F. Scott Fitzgerald..."

Mary: "Lenny Bruce! We can't forget Lenny Bruce now, can we? And how about Norman Mailer?"

Isaac: (disgusted) "I think those people are all terrific, every one that you've mentioned. What about Mozart? You guys don't want to leave him out. I mean, while you're trashing people..."

>> No.5226655

>>5224281
>BDSM fetishist writing about how all relationships involve power dynamics

Shocking.

>> No.5226711

>>5225728
Don't forget World War II.

The fact that most of these French intellectuals did nothing to aid the Resistance made them ashamed of their history, of reality, so they denied the identity of the author and of reality.

>> No.5226734

>>5225874
I smell Peronist butthurt.

>> No.5226924

>>5225803
>The Hurley translation is excellent

Just no.

>> No.5227043

>>5226924
I-I liked it
What's your fave translation?

>> No.5227129

>>5226412
Not him, but for Walsh the only one ive had luck finding in english is Operation Massacre (by far his most well-known/important work) its incredible. "Non-fction novel" like True Blood but written by someone involved in the action instead of a self-promoting bitch.

Arlt i'm not sure how much luck you'll have finding shit. Los Siete Locos is great, im slowly going through it in spanish. sure theres an eng. version i just havent really looked

>> No.5227141
File: 15 KB, 537x360, the-famous-pose-of-albert-camus1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5227141

I'm just getting into /lit/, is Camus a hack?
I just ordered A Happy Death

>> No.5227168

>>5225728
Excellent album

>> No.5227221

>>5227141
How is Camus a hack, he only wrote like 4 things then he died?

>> No.5227227

>>5227221
I dunno, like /mu/ you guys throw hack around a lot (Every French is a hack)

>> No.5227288

>>5227227
Camus' isn't a hack. Whatever you say about is philosophy, he is a brilliant author, considered by /lit/ to be one of the best.

most of our "frenchfags are hacks" refers to shitty incoherent 20th century french post modern "philosophers" like Derrida and Lacan

>> No.5227302

>>5224427
I don't get why every picture must be a .gif, and why these can't be longer than two fucking seconds. What's the point of it being a .gif then?

>> No.5227307

>>5225766
>I guess this is what the Argentinians call 'deja vu'
Only we do?

>> No.5227310

>>5227288
Oh, okay. I've always had a bit of an admiration of the French in the arts - I wish Serge Gainsbourg had written more before he died. One of the greatest composers/musicians/lyricists of the 20th century. His book was alright, I just feel he had more potential as a novelist.

That being said, I'm pretty excited to read A Happy Death. My first Camus.

>> No.5227340

>>5225874
>muh passion
Go back to watching fútbol, faggot.