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/lit/ - Literature

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5221326 No.5221326[DELETED]  [Reply] [Original]

Why is writing terrible all over the place?

For example, take the Simpsons.

Used to be genius, now it's stupid as hell.

What the fuck is going on? Music too, is stupid as hell. Movies too are stupid as hell.

TV shows are waxing and waning, still decent.

More importantly, the books coming out now are absolute shit (except McCarthy's The Road).

Fine art now is incredibly stupid.

We are experiencing free-fall degradation in all areas of art.

The only place left with talent is like, deviant art and graffiti artists.

Wtf.

A man who made a kickstarter to make a potato salad got 50k
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/324283889/potato-salad

What the fuck kind of world am I living in!??!

Genius and virtue is being trampled on from above and below.

FUCCCCKKKK! Latter-Roman empire decadence suckkkks!

>> No.5221329

>>5221326
b8

>> No.5221347

>>5221326
"I was born in lewrongeneration"

>> No.5221353

>>5221347
Degenerate.

>> No.5221375

>>5221347
"i literally post on reddit"

>> No.5221407

Not OP, but why the hell is it when I read the Intelligent Investor or How to win friends and influence people (both written decades ago), they're so obviously written by smart and well educated people, despite being non-fiction and self help, which is SHIT tier? How have things become worse (including me, obviously)? Were only the top 1 % of the population given access to the media or something?

>> No.5221418
File: 1.24 MB, 608x714, 1397808577577.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5221418

>>5221326
>Good
>Bad
>Being this black and white

>> No.5221423

>>5221407
no, they were written by modernist hacks which mrafaggots like yourself idolize because you'll never be able to wear a fedora in the 1950s.

>> No.5221424

The writing in a lot of magazines has become dumber as well (Foreign Policy and The New Republic both come to mind).

I think the general trend is to avoid seriousness and to talk like a snarky teenager who is trying to impress his college roommates.

>> No.5221437

Joanna Newsom is arguably at her peak right now and she's the greatest lyricist I've ever heard in popular music

>> No.5221445

Welcome to #LateCapitalism.

>> No.5221453

>>5221326
late capitalism did it. read jameson son

>> No.5221457

>>5221326
Older things are like collected in bestof lists and shit and youre experiencing things as they are made . Good things are very rare and the rare good thing can even go unnoticed for years!

>> No.5221458

>>5221424
I have noticed this trend too, but it's fairly easy to avoid, if you watch the right shows, read the right books etc.

>> No.5221471

>>5221437
She hasn't released an album in nearly 5 years though

>> No.5221473

>>5221437
>she's the greatest lyricist I've ever heard in popular music
whoa
slow down there buddy

>> No.5221481

>>5221437
look into townes van zandt
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfZUIlF-Bs0

>> No.5221483

>>5221437
Bob Dylan is the greatest lyricist in popular music.
And I don't even like him.

>> No.5221484

>>5221471
and when she does samberg will have his filthy prints all over it. It's over guys

>> No.5221488

>>5221481
Love him, not a scratch on Joanna
>>5221473
I'm gravely serious, and I listen to far more music than I do read literature
>>5221471
I'm expecting the next one within the year, she's already performed tracks from it live

>> No.5221501

>>5221326
Sick Boy: It's certainly a phenomenon in all walks of life.
Mark "Rent-boy" Renton: What do you mean?
Sick Boy: Well, at one time, you've got it, and then you lose it, and it's gone forever. All walks of life: George Best, for example. Had it, lost it. Or David Bowie, or Lou Reed...
Mark "Rent-boy" Renton: Some of his solo stuff's not bad.
Sick Boy: No, it's not bad, but it's not great either. And in your heart you kind of know that although it sounds all right, it's actually just shite.
Mark "Rent-boy" Renton: So who else?
Sick Boy: Charlie Nicholas, David Niven, Malcolm McLaren, Elvis Presley...
Mark "Rent-boy" Renton: OK, OK, so what's the point you're trying to make?
Sick Boy: All I'm trying to do is help you understand that The Name of The Rose is merely a blip on an otherwise uninterrupted downward trajectory.
Mark "Rent-boy" Renton: What about The Untouchables?
Sick Boy: I don't rate that at all.
Mark "Rent-boy" Renton: Despite the Academy Award?
Sick Boy: That means fuck all. Its a sympathy vote.
Mark "Rent-boy" Renton: Right. So we all get old and then we can't hack it anymore. Is that it?
Sick Boy: Yeah.
Mark "Rent-boy" Renton: That's your theory?
Sick Boy: Yeah. Beautifully fucking illustrated.

>> No.5221503

>>5221483
He's really good, but he's no Joanna Newsom. I'll say that maybe his albums Blonde on Blonde and Blood On The Tracks have better lyrics than those on the Milk Eyed Mender but other than that I feel pretty confident that Joanna's still the best.

>> No.5221506

>>5221483
nah townes was better

>> No.5221520

>>5221437
>Joanna Newsom is arguably at her peak right now and she's the greatest lyricist I've ever heard in popular music

I just listened to her, she sounds like a cat getting hit with a 2x4.

Nothing compared to this angelic voice:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpz4-Qk6Png


>>5221481
That sounds like a hackjob fucko, he clearly stole from this song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adZiVjXFfKk

Christ.

>> No.5221528

>>5221503
post some of her lyrics

>> No.5221538

>>5221520
that song was released 7 years after our mother the mountain

>> No.5221541
File: 642 KB, 500x655, Joanna+Newsom+JoannaNewsom.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5221541

>>5221528
http://www.joannanewsomlyrics.com/album/2-ys/16-only-skin_official/

Not really given the justice they deserve without her vocal delivery but this is one of my favourites
>>5221520
She's incredibly expressive which I appreciate, you warm up to her voice. Some critic, I forget who, said her singing is closer to recitals of poems than natural singing as we understand it in popular music, which is spot on. Sorry you can't get into it I guess. Molly Drake does indeed rule and own though

>> No.5221556
File: 325 KB, 645x432, pogf.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5221556

>>5221541
>http://www.joannanewsomlyrics.com/album/2-ys/16-only-skin_official/

"Awful atoll —
O, incalculable indiscreetness and sorrow!
Bawl bellow:
Sibyl sea-cow, all done up in a bow.
Toddle and roll;
teethe an impalpable bit of leather,
while yarrow, heather and hollyhock
awkwardly molt along the shore."

what the fuck is this bullshit

>> No.5221563

>>5221556
>he can't even into joanna

kill urself

>> No.5221566

>>5221541
ok ill admit i really like her lyrics

>> No.5221568

>>5221563
i was, of course, being facetious

it's a good lyric. I like the bird subplot even if it's a nabokov ripoff/reference

>> No.5221569

>>5221538
Alright, I got egg on my face. I'll admit it.

>> No.5221571

>>5221556

I bet that kid is one of those /lit/fag loving philosophy.

>> No.5221574

the best music lyricist is quorthon from bathory

>> No.5221577

>>5221541
>She's incredibly expressive
No she isn't. She's a bad singer. Case closed.

>> No.5221580

>>5221577
if bob dylan is allowed to be mentioned as being good at anything in a musical context that girl is.

>> No.5221582

>>5221577
>Case closed.
>Case
>closed.

Alright, sport.

>> No.5221583
File: 49 KB, 600x400, joannanewsom+andy.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5221583

>>5221577
y-you just don't get her

>> No.5221589

>>5221453
Does Jameson ever say what he thinks comes after late capitalism? That frustrated me to no end when I was reading him. What does he propose comes out of it, or was his point that it all just stagnates and dies at that point? I thought he was suggesting that late capitalism was inherently unsustainable.

>> No.5221590

>>5221568
To be fair she has openly cited Nabokov as a huge influence

>> No.5221593

>>5221577

It's strange to see posts this pleb pop up on /lit/ from time to time.

Are you lost?

>> No.5221595

>>5221590
post her influences

>> No.5221608
File: 53 KB, 684x464, joannanewsom3.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5221608

>>5221595
Here's a cool quote on a question an interviewer asked her about how she feels about America:

"I love William Faulkner, Dolly Parton, fried chicken, Van Dyke Parks, the Grand Canyon, Topanga Canyon, bacon cheeseburgers with horseradish, Georgia O'Keeffe, Grand Ole Opry, Gary Snyder, Gilda Radner, Radio City Music Hall, Big Sur, Ponderosa pines, Southern BBQ, Highway One, Kris Kristofferson, National Arts Club in New York, Ruth Crawford Seeger, Joni Mitchell, Ernest Hemingway, Harriet Tubman, Hearst Castle, Ansel Adams, Kenneth Jay Lane, Yuba River, South Yuba River Citizens League, “Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore”, “Hired Hand”, “The Jerk”, “The Sting”, “Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid”, clambakes, lobster rolls, s'mores, camping in the Sierra Nevadas, land sailing in the Nevada desert, riding horseback in Canyon de Chelly; Walker Percy, Billie Holiday, Drag City, Chez Panisse/Alice Waters/slow food movement, David Crosby, Ralph Lauren,San Francisco Tape Music Center, Albert Brooks, Utah Phillips, Carol Moseley Braun, Bolinas CA, Ashland OR, Lawrence KS, Austin TX, Bainbridge Island WA, Marilyn Monroe, Mills College, Elizabeth Cotton, Carl Sandburg, the Orange Show in Houston, Toni Morrison, Texas Gladden, California College of Ayurvedic Medicine, Louis Comfort Tiffany, Saturday Night Live, Aaron Copland, Barack Obama, Oscar de la Renta, Alan Lomax, Joyce Carol Oates, Fred Neil, Henry Cowell, Barneys New York, Golden Gate Park, Musee Mechanique, Woody Guthrie, Maxfield Parrish, Malibu, Maui, Napa Valley, Terry Riley, drive-in movies, homemade blackberry ice cream from blackberries picked on my property, Lil Wayne, Walt Whitman, Halston, Lavender Ridge Grenache from Lodi CA, Tony Duquette, Julia Morgan, Lotta Crabtree, Empire Mine, North Columbia Schoolhouse, Disneyland, Nevada County Grandmothers for Peace; Roberta Flack, Randy Newman, Mark Helprin, Larry David, Prince; cooking on Thanksgiving; Shel Siverstein, Lee Hazlewood, Lee Radziwill, Jackie Onassis, E.B. White, William Carlos Williams, Jay Z, Ralph Stanley, Allen Ginsberg, Cesar Chavez, Harvey Milk, RFK, Rosa Parks, Arthur Miller, “The Simpsons”, Julia Child, Henry Miller, Arthur Ashe, Anne Bancroft, The Farm Midwifery Center in TN, Martha Graham, Alvin Ailey, Jr., Eleanor Roosevelt, Clark Gable, Harry Nilsson, Woodstock, and some other stuff. Buuuut, the ol' U S of A can pull some pretty dick moves. I'm hoping it'll all come out in the wash... "


Of course that's obviously only American influences she offered on short notice for a small interview but still not a bad list

>> No.5221613

>>5221580
Bob Dylan may not technically be a good singer, he isn't annoying on the ears and his songs are catchy and his lyrics are fantastic.

Compare this
http://vimeo.com/36050070

to this trash:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47yuiPK01kg

She has that hipster indie vocals that literally 99% of indie hipster girl lead singers have. That kitty-cat velvety yelping. Got old a long time ago.

Decent harp skills though (if that's really her playing).

Her vocal melody stinks , as well as her lyrics.

Her instrumental skills are pretty ok though (if that is really her who wrote and play it).

Song structure is too loose and aimless.

That's my evaluation.

>> No.5221616

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbdAVoIJzIk

her mouth is ridiculous lol

great performance

>> No.5221617

>>5221608
reminds me of myspace

>> No.5221623

>>5221613
You posted a track from 2004 from an album widely considered to be her weakest release. I like the song but pretty much every aspect of her music has matured tenfold in the meantime, especially her vocals

As for the rest of your post: u r wrong

>> No.5221628

>we're supposed to think Andy Samberg's wife is cool and important
>the wife of the guy who made i'm on a boat and was in grown ups 2 and some fucking spaghetti meatballs cartoon for kids
>this is the state of contemporary art/music
why should I spare your lives? give me one good reason not to go on a fucking killing spree

>> No.5221629

>>5221628
This is the woman that wrote the albums Ys and Have One On Me

>> No.5221634

>>5221326

OP you're apart of a different generation. People are abandoning TV as a medium such that the only customers left are the base matter of idiots that just want to see pretty colors. Kids today are growing up with the Internet, not TV. Nobody cares what X multimillion dollar franchise - and that's all these things are, franchises - does. People want their weird niche content instead of subscribing to the mainstream media. A byproduct of this means that scammers get to play off idiots and make money like they always have.

>FUCCCCKKKK! Latter-Roman empire decadence suckkkks!

what are you, fucking 12? The film industry, like any industry, peaks and declines as a newer form of media distribution takes over. Network TV is going the same way radio did, and cable TV is up next. After that the film industry (which already sees most of it's profits from china/india) goes as well.

>> No.5221641

>>5221629
lol

>> No.5221642

>>5221613

>She has that hipster indie vocals that literally 99% of indie hipster girl lead singers have.

You could say that she is incredibly over-affected and there you'd definitely have a case, but to say that a singer as distinctively different as her sounds like "99% of indie hipster girls" is so obviously misinformed that you come off as a frustrated autismal sperglord who just want to take shots at "indie" things.

>> No.5221644

>>5221407

>How have things become worse (including me, obviously)?

because you're a dumbass who doesn't want to fight tooth and nail for something and would rather shitpost on an anime imageboard

>> No.5221651

>>5221437
>Joanna Newsom is arguably at her peak right now

She's in her 30s. A woman's peak is early twenties and it's all down hill from there.

>> No.5221653

>>5221642
>He doesn't like what I like, better call him a sperg

Haha, I like how you ignored the very detailed description of what this "generic hipster female lead vocals" sounds like, because I was very specific and accurate.

>> No.5221654

>>5221644

If you're going to project at least do it with a bit of subtlety.

>> No.5221656

>>5221651
Incorrect, especially when applied to literature which is essentially what we're discussing

>> No.5221659

>>5221628
>he didn't pay attention to music when ys came out

cute widdle babby

>> No.5221661

>>5221326
Many things (like TV shows) are waning because large media is so deeply pressured to turn a profit that they stick to formulas that "work", even if they only keep stupid people watching, rather than doing something risky but potentially very good.

>> No.5221662

>>5221653
Shouldn't you be on /mu/? Joanna rules and you drool

>> No.5221663

>>5221653
shut up
i don't want to hear the shrill voice of a woman while listening to music

>> No.5221666

>>5221653

>because I was very specific and accurate

And the resulting figure of "99%" I suppose was arrived at through very specific and accurate means as well, right?

No one like a sad sack, kid. If you hate indie just cope and move on, but don't throw out some angst-addled confirmation bias and expect to be met with anything but laughter.

>> No.5221668

>>5221659
oh my god

>> No.5221671

How the f*** is Ms. Newsom indie?

>> No.5221682

>>5221656
>which is essentially what we're discussing

You're discussing the music of a spergy sounding ugly woman who was courted by Jewish royalty. This has nothing to do with literature.

>> No.5221685

>>5221682
Interesting to note that nothing you listed has anything to do with her lyrics.

>> No.5221691

>>5221608
>postmodernism

>> No.5221693

>>5221666
>If you hate indie just cope and move on
The thing is I don't.

Here is some good indie shit I uncovered when I used download playlists of around 100-250 songs each month.

I quit doing it because I hated wading through a mountain of shit, for 1 or 2 songs I liked.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woy7Ghd-FEM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjlCBC3jiNc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_16ziKaaWc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjlCBC3jiNc

>> No.5221694

>>5221685
Lyrics aren't literature either.

>> No.5221698

>>5221694
yes they are you stupid fuck

learn about the history of poetry

>> No.5221700

>>5221682

>This has nothing to do with literature.

Lyrics threads are often seen on /lit/. Try not to act this new, please.

Any by this logic plays shouldn't be discussed here as the writing is only a intermediary part of the project and not the final form.

Basically either way you're a shit cunt.

>> No.5221703

>>5221694
They are, yeah.

>> No.5221709

>>5221698
I know more about poetry than you. Lyrical poetry != lyrics abstracted from recorded pop songs.

>> No.5221711

>>5221700
A kanye west thread was deleted earlier despite the fact that everyone invloved was quite clearly engaging with and discussing his lyrics and their related concepts

>> No.5221717

>>5221709
All her records come with adorned liner notes.

>> No.5221722

>>5221709
>abstracted

you are so fucking stupid it is ridiculous

>> No.5221723

>>5221711
Yeah I'm tired of these shitheads who keep crying out about off-topic threads.

Just hide the thread assholes. You're autism is stifling this board.

>> No.5221725

>>5221711

Yeah a long film thread was axed a few days ago too despite it being one of the best we've had in a long time.

Mods need at least some mention of lit in the OP or they're liable to kill it. Fucking stupid imo, but w/e.

>> No.5221726

>>5221723
This thread will be deleted soon enough, and I banned.

>> No.5221728

>>5221717
So that people can sing along and/or understand her. Do they sell the liner notes apart from the recorded music?

The effect of 99% of lyrics in pop music depends on the music.

>> No.5221731

>>5221728
Who fucking cares? It's literature, grow up

>> No.5221732

>>5221722
>I have never seen abstract used as a verb

Tell us more about how sheltered you are.

>> No.5221733

>>5221628
because if you ever saw me you'd be too intimidated to attack

>> No.5221735
File: 104 KB, 613x533, wtfamireading.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5221735

>>5221728
>sing along
>with Joanna Newsom

>> No.5221737

>>5221709
and why exactly cant the lyrics be standalone even if they are 'abstracted'?
they are definitely strong enough to hold their own

>> No.5221739

>>5221731
>It's literature

It's music.

>> No.5221740

>>5221728

Is "99%" like the go to placeholder value that tardkids use when they're trying to sound convincing?

Summer posters are the worst.

>> No.5221743

>>5221739
Literature.

>> No.5221745

>>5221732
because abstracted is such an obscure and deep word?
fucking pleb

>> No.5221747

>>5221735
Ever seen her live? People will obnoxiously sing along with any kind of music.

>> No.5221753

>>5221737
>and why exactly cant the lyrics be standalone even if they are 'abstracted'

They certainly could be, in this case they aren't.

>> No.5221754

>>5221747
God does that really happen? I find that so hard to imagine, I can't even get my head around any kind of thought process that would lead someone to do anything at a Joanna Newsom concert other than stare onwards in stupefied awe. I hope she tours soon because I didn't get a chance to go the last time she came to the UK

>> No.5221759

>>5221745
If somebody is accusing you of being sheltered, it implies that the usage is common, not obscure.

>> No.5221762

>>5221753
Sure they are, on lyric websites for example.

>> No.5221773

>>5221754
It reminds me of when I saw Crystal Castles and people were singing along to the samples.

>> No.5221774

>>5221753
It's such a trivial thing anyway, we can assess it as literature regardless of how you define it

>> No.5221775

>>5221753
Why not?

>> No.5221783

>>5221759
idiot

>> No.5221789

>>5221774
Yes, you can.

>> No.5222282

>>5221326
>what are rose colored glasses?

>> No.5222327
File: 422 KB, 400x225, libcap.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5222327

Because like everything else in our shitty late capitalist society, art has become commodified and homogenized.

>> No.5222344

>>5222327
*tips fedora*

>> No.5222357

>>5221326
we neglected to strive for the ubermensch.
we are the "last men".

>> No.5222358

>>5221437
>bird bird bird archaic word hokey pastoralism

It's hilarious

>> No.5222365

>>5222327
and at the same time "leftists" are being blamed

capitalism, not even once

>> No.5222366
File: 28 KB, 660x499, Sales_promotion_free_shiping_beauty_Chinese_gift_Mini_fishing_bait_634547344586576751_14.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5222366

>> No.5222395

>>5222327
How does that prevent individuals from making good art?

>> No.5222437

>>5222395
You're presupposing that the "individual" still exists.

Also, please define "good art." Art used to be an escape from pain. Capitalism has stripped it of its halo, to paraphrase Engels. It has become yet another victim of the nihilistic ambiguity of postmodernism.

>> No.5222474

>>5222437
*tips fedora*

>> No.5222523

>>5222474
I'm gonna cut you from your asshole to your balls.

>> No.5223458

>>5221407
you read them because they were so successful. you don't know about the shitty self help books about how to kick negros without scuffing your boots because they fell out of popularity

this isnt hard to understand. shit in the past looks better because we only remember the greatest hits.

>> No.5223478

If The Road if the only example of quality literature you can name from the new millennium, you are simply not reading enough.

>> No.5223483

>>5222437
>You're presupposing that the "individual" still exists.

Of course the individual exists. Don't let theory rot your brain.

>Art used to be an escape from pain.

You mean suffering? Art still serves that purpose, just not necessarily always the art in the museums.

>Capitalism has...

You mean "individuals have." Capitalism doesn't take your agency away, no matter what Young Hegelians need you to think.

>> No.5223499
File: 34 KB, 413x395, .....jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5223499

>>5221326
>The only place left with talent is like, deviant art

>> No.5223556

>>5221445

Capitalism doesn't exist.

>> No.5223559

Things just sounded more intelligent:

1884:
>"He strode confidently across to the window, through which the mid-winter snow was cascading from low, turgid clouds"

2014:
>"He went over to the window. It was snowing"

>> No.5223562

>>5221326
Plebs have taken control

>> No.5223565

>>5223559
Hope ur joking cunt

>> No.5224472

>>5221326
Holy shit you fucking nostalgiafag. Film, music and literature are not at their peak, but live action TV has never been better. We have Sopranos, Mad Men, The Wire, BrBa and GoT, all of which are much closer to the contemporary cinema standards of writing and production than ever before.

>> No.5224480

>>5224472
>all that pleb shit
lel

>> No.5224490

>>5224480
If you repackaged the classics, which we often do, it would most definitely be cliche pleb shit

>> No.5224499

>>5223556
>Capitalism doesn't exist when things are bad

FTFY

my godt

>> No.5224509

>>5221375
>not posting on reddit
pleb