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/lit/ - Literature

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5211524 No.5211524 [Reply] [Original]

Why aren't you a negative hedonist yet?

>> No.5211532

Because I don't know what it means and I don't like the sound of it.

>> No.5211555

>>5211524
because i love the roman way of life.

>> No.5211559

>>5211555
But you're supposed to start with the Greeks!

>> No.5211561
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5211561

The only kind of hedonism that makes sense is Epicurianism.

>Become hedonist
>Go on heroin binges 24/7
>Fun for like a couple days
>Life turns to shit

This is most of my friends idea of a hedonistic life.

>> No.5211612

I think I already am

I just assume reality is an amalgamation of the mind

also you'll cowards dont even smoke crack

>> No.5211628

>>5211532
It means that you pursue the absence of suffering rather than chase pleasure.

>> No.5211630

>>5211628
So it's Epicureanism with a less elegant name.

>> No.5211633

>>5211555
What's that?

>> No.5211634
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5211634

because I'm alive

>> No.5211647

>>5211630
Epicurean is a form of negative hedonism, but negative hedonism isn't necessarily Epicurean.

>> No.5211650

>Hedonism
Why do people on this board promote degeneracy when you guys don't even lift your head out of your books?

>> No.5211651
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5211651

>>5211524
Confirming.

Just experienced the worst pain in my life a week ago. Feeling pretty good now.

>>5211561
I'd like an occasional orgy though. *Sigh*

>> No.5211662

Because suffering proves I'm alive, and I can't have the ecstasy if I don't deal with the pain. I'm life-affirming, and I would rather experience something and possibly hate it than not experience something at all. Also, I don't always know what will cause more or less suffering, and I don't think suffering is inherently evil or ill. Many of the greatest achievements were the result of the tempering flames of unimaginable suffering.

>> No.5211669

>>5211651
>Just experienced the worst pain in my life a week ago.
What was it?

>> No.5211675

>>5211662
By which standards do you judge greatness then? Greatness to what end?

>> No.5211679

That which does not kill us makes us stronger

>> No.5211696

>>5211675
Newtonian physics was the result of Newton being locked in a dark room and slaving over formulae for years.

Muscular strength and endurance, cardiovascular strength, and physical prowess in general are only the result of pain and sacrifice.

Childbirth is surely one of the most painful things in the world, but no great person has ever been birthed without it.

Genius is the result of toil. The lack of attention to other things. Tunnel vision.

Greatness being greatness of its type. Greatness is greatness to its own end.

>> No.5211705

>>5211650
NEGATIVE-hedonism. This isn't "degeneracy"
And books are a fine pleasure. The fuck are you smoking padré

>>5211662
>Because suffering proves I'm alive
Oh, you'll suffer. You'll suffer plenty.

>>5211669
Broke my arm in an accident. I've been cupped up in these four walls in a cast ever since. -_-

>> No.5211707

>>5211651
bitch I've had 5 root canals and 2 cases of cellulitis go fuck your mother with your bids for attention

>> No.5211716

>>5211705
>Oh, you'll suffer. You'll suffer plenty.
I already have. It's a fact of life, and it isn't necessarily always bad. It's kind of mean that you seem glad of my suffering though.

>> No.5211746

>>5211707
Dear Bitch

I have had a root canal before, it *is* excruciating. Did you have them all at the same time? against the pavement? Yes, my accident was something like that but with a longer recovery time still ahead of me.
I've never heard of "cellulitis". Is it to do with your dental too?
Lastly, even when my mother were alive I didn't harbor any such unseemly feelings. Quit being so rude.

>> No.5211752

>>5211716
>It's kind of mean that you seem glad of my suffering
You imagine things

>> No.5211822

>>5211696
So the point is to try really hard at arbitrary things for no reason at all and to suffer for it?

>> No.5211869

>>5211628
The absence of pleasure makes me sad.

>> No.5211880

>>5211822
That doesn't sound so bad actually.

>> No.5212048

>>5211880
Why don't you start digging a hole in the floor right now then?

>> No.5212076

Because lifetime supply of cheesecake and drugs.

>> No.5212274

>>5211822
They aren't arbitrary. No one can decide the direction you go but yourself. There are plenty of limiting factors in life, but ultimately the type of person you are and how you face the tribulations you are presented with is your responsibility. That's the terror of being human, and the suffering we all have to endure. What you want to be is in a sense both arbitrary and incredibly meaningful. You will suffer regardless; that's just the way things are. I would rather suffer a little more to be great at something rather than live in mediocrity because I'm afraid of unpleasantness or failure. It's probably ultimately meaningless, but so is suffering.

>> No.5212292

>>5212274
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/arbitrary

>> No.5212298
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5212298

people who read literature in order to expand their mental horizons and uncover truths related to the human condition are by nature epicureanists then, right (?)

>> No.5212333

>>5212298
Possibly.
More strictly speaking, who read literature in order to expand their mental horizons and uncover truths related to the human condition because it's pleasurable are.

>> No.5212363

>>5212292
So? I already knew the definition. But the way you were using it was not the "based on personal preference" definition, because digging a hole in the floor is not personal preference.

Since I knew that was also a definition, you will remember that I wrote
>What you want to be is in a sense both arbitrary and incredibly meaningful.

The way you seemed to use it originally was
>existing or coming about seemingly at random or by chance or as a capricious and unreasonable act of will <when a task is not seen in a meaningful context it is experienced as being arbitrary — Nehemiah Jordan>

In which case you would be equivocating to say that a reasoned, personal preference to do something is arbitrary in the same way as digging a hole at random. If you would like to argue semantics and definitions, I'd be more than happy.

>> No.5212380

>>5212333
>>5212298
No they aren't. You don't know anything about Epicureanism, butterfly. You haven't even read the wikipedia page all the way through, apparently.

>> No.5212400

>>5212380
There's no pleasure in knowledge in Epicureanism? Strictly?

>> No.5212414

>>5212400
No, there is. The goal in Epicureanism is not pleasure though. It's SIMPLE pleasures. This also includes avoiding anything that could cause suffering. One of those things is explicitly stated as knowledge. Another is having too much pleasure. Epicurus advocated gaining only as much knowledge as necessary not to be superstitious, and that culture, learning, etc. were all impediments to the good life. Please read some Epicurus before speaking on him.

>> No.5212468

>>5212414
I rushed a response, neglecting a fuller explanation, is what you're saying. Ah well.

>> No.5212494

>>5211679
>healthy man
>gets cancer
>gets chemo
>isn't stronger than before

>> No.5212508

>>5212494
>You can only become stronger physically

>> No.5212515

>>5212508
brain cancer

>> No.5212533

>>5212515
Hey look someone who agrees with me.

watch someone get their head smashed with a bat and find their mental fortitude afterwards.

>> No.5212537

>>5212515
>>5212533
Cancer kills you.
Chemo kills you.
Getting hit with a bat in the head kills you.

>> No.5212552

>>5212537
Not always. Plenty of things can do horrible damage to the brain without killing you. Just look at Phineas Gage.

>> No.5212555

>>5212552
Okay, and they don't always make you stronger either. What's the problem?

>> No.5212558

>>5212552
Also, it could be argued that the person that was Phineas Gage was not the same person that emerged from the accident. Much like any serious brain trauma victim.

>> No.5212559

>>5212555
THATS WHAT HE'S SAYING YOU FUCKING IMBECILE

whatever doesnt kill you, does NOT always make you stronger

>> No.5212560

>>5212555
The problem is the invocation of that inaccurate platitude "whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger". Getting a railroad spike shot through your brain might not kill you, and does not make you stronger.

>> No.5212562

>>5212559
But those things do kill you. And I never said it always made you stronger.

However in a sense it does make you stronger. Are you familiar with how the body regenerates tissue? Or with what scarring is?

>> No.5212567

>>5212558
Yes, you could argue that. And in that case you would have to say that he did die in the accident.

>> No.5212575

>>5212562
Cancer doesn't always kill you, neither does chemo, neither does getting hit with a bat.

But if they take away your stamina, strength, and mental capabilities to endure suffering, they sure as fuck do not make you stronger.

>> No.5212576

>>5212567
Yes, you would. However, what emerged from the accident is still a person, albeit a different one.

>> No.5212579

I'm not sure where the need comes from but every idiom imaginable invokes a certain need to go "nuh-uh"

>> No.5212581

>>5212494
>>5212515
>>5212533
>>5212552
>>5212559
>>5212560
>>5212575
>Not understanding the meaning of this simple aphorism this badly.

>> No.5212584

>>5212579
>invokes a certain need to go "nuh-uh"

That's teenage contrarianism. Most well-functioning adults realize the intention of a good maxim.

>> No.5212585

TFW when virtue is a mean relative to oneself between excess and deficiency.

>> No.5212587

>>5212581
we understand the aphorism, that is why we realize it is feel-good, pat on the back, bullshit

>> No.5212592

>>5212587
No, it isn't. It's about how suffering is important retard. Read some more Nietzsche you dumb fuck.

>> No.5212598

http://phys.org/news/2010-10-doesnt-stronger.html

Where is your God now?

>> No.5212605

>>5212592
shut the fuck up

I've read Nietzsche, I understand that the maxim is applicable much of the time.

BUT, there are exceptions. When your brain and reasoning ability is damaged, you cannot handle suffering as well as before.

If you become paralyzed, you are not stronger than before, physically.

All is open to interpretation. Go back to class, troglodyte.

>> No.5212612

>>5212605
If it's all open to interpretation, then what the fuck are you arguing for? You should read him again if you think there's some "truth" you're trying to ferret out that I've violated.

>> No.5212617

>>5212612
Holy christ... Nietzsche has nothing to do with this. The simple fact is; whatever doesn't kill you MAY make you stronger

real big fuckin empashis on MAY

>> No.5212624

>>5212617
Yes it does you stupid fuck. IT'S A QUOTE. FROM NIETZSCHE. THAT'S WHY IT HAS SOMETHING TO DO WITH HIM. I bet you're the type of person who corrects people for known dialectical differences and minor errata.

>> No.5212663

>>5212624
Why aren't you a negative hedonist yet?

>> No.5212713

>>5212663
Because suffering is important. Death is important. Pain is important. Strength is important. Mastery is important. The individual is important. Triumph is important. Sacrifice is important. Feeling good and not feeling bad are some of the last things motivating me in everyday life, and they aren't what I base my goals on.

>> No.5213559

>>5212414
This is pretty much why I stopped reading edgy books.

>> No.5213586

>>5211746
Cellulitis is a infection which I was told could prove fatal had I waited a few more days to get it taken care of.

Also I was only kidding you bitch

>> No.5213603

>>5211628
SO sucicide?

>> No.5213821

>>5213603
Respawning isn't quitting the game.

>> No.5214695

>>5213821
You won't respawn fucknut. And if you do, your memory is cleared.

>> No.5214716

>>5211705
>Broke my arm in an accident
such a tough lyf mane

>> No.5214783

>>5214716
I take it with as much of a smile as I can. >>5213603 Hardly with suicide! Such a useless effort, this sacrifice to your self-god...

>> No.5215045

>>5214695
You think your matter disappears when you die? You think the stuff you're made off hasn't been alive before? You think the individualisation of suffering is warranted?

>> No.5215068

My mother used to tell me "the diligent remember which days they were free, the slothful remember which days they were working". That's what I live by.

>> No.5215081

>>5215068
Sounds like some self-congratulatory wage slave shit.

>the perpetually raped remember that one sunday with a resting anus, therefore rape is gud

>> No.5215115

>>5215081
Cliche but true: it's hard to appreciate things until they're gone.

>> No.5215347

>tfw negative hedonist in the first world so you're still sort of decadent since you have no reason not to

>> No.5217188

>>5212537
Life kills you.