.

[Anonymous No.5194376]

[Anonymous No.5194391]

>>5194376
shameless self bump

[Anonymous No.5194392]

This is the only answer

[Anonymous No.5194400]

Good thread

[Anonymous No.5194413]

[Anonymous No.5194452]

>>5194376
You can't shift tracks with a lever. The nature of the drawing suggests to me that the man holding the switch has actually brought a prop, and is using it to inspire hope in the people about to be killed by the train, for they have a moment of doubt over their impending death.

[Anonymous No.5194453]

[Anonymous No.5194479]

>>5194452
>>>/n/
here, you are a fucking idiot.

[Anonymous No.5194511]

>>5194479
What do bikes have to do with trains? Again, no train operated in the last decade is going to be directed by levers.

[Anonymous No.5194525]

[Anonymous No.5194529]

WHERE'S YOUR GOD NOW???

[Anonymous No.5194536]

>>5194400
Hahaha oh Bobobo

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » No.5194559]

[Anonymous No.5194562]

>>5194559
fucking shit, not even socrates could get this one right

[Anonymous No.5194625]

>>5194529
>to save based elvis of cultural theory you must also save skank ho judith
Mein Gott!

[Anonymous No.5194694]

[Anonymous No.5194726]

>>5194694
fuck

[Anonymous No.5194730]

>>5194511

>implying this thought experiment is from the last decade

[Anonymous No.5194735]

>>5194730
Correct, the trolley thought experiment was invented by Plato, except that in his version five donkeys were placed on the tracks.

[Anonymous No.5195467]

>tfw /lit/ will never come close to recreating the glory of that first thread

[Reality Check !Z6/0YaJApk No.5195748]

As I always say DON'T PULL THE SWITCH. Any argument against this always comes down to autism.

[Anonymous No.5195800]

Kill the unholy.

[Muck Bulligan !!ryE2gEjGbpu No.5195863]

>>5195748
my argument against this is that if you were actually in this situation you'd fucking pull the lever, no matter what bullshit you want to spout trying to convince everyone you wouldn't.

>>5194376
i'm assuming the guy on top was separated from the rest of the group because he was being too chatty and it's morally permissible to kill people who annoy you.

[Anonymous No.5195873]

There's no getting off of Philippa Foot's wild thought experiment.

[Anonymous No.5195892]

sit on the switch deep in my ass really stretching it and jack off while bodyless heads tumble about and some stupid cunt gets tramumatised then punch yourself in the fucking face with a head that you rub the nostril in your pee holw scream scream take a fat shit and die while screaming niggers did 9/11 because they fucking did it's the truth look it up retard honestly sometimes you fucking worthless mutts really crack me up like my cock fucks hard boiled eggs skyward yeah that's where infected skies go sound my urethra and let me shit out my own vomit becase I cut all my fucking organs out but superglue my pie hole to the inside of my boypossy so I can snort spaghetti up one nostril like ever last italian coke addict then pushpush that slippery noodle through my poopchute and spreay spray my fucking shit coated macaroni all over a fat niglets face and then laugh using my anus about how tainted and worthless he is because life aint fucking nothing but a piece of shit do you fucking hear me it's worthless now get off your fat lasy ass and snuff yourself so I jack off using a tight loli as a fucksleeve while poking hot irons in her fucking face just to watch her bleed cry while I stretch her cunt and ass until she spilts down the middle and starts heomarraging out her now singular fuckhole but just get a fucking bucket to collect that blood then get a hammer and smash the fucking shit out her worthless meatsack until fucking stops breathing now is the time to get out a knife and take your fucking time here you cut her open and inspect all her organs and work out how her insides fit together other people are just mechanical clocks like descartes fucking animals just fuck that worthless whore one my time while she's fucking dead then stick a machete out her vagina and bite off her fucking nipples and eat one of her fucking eyeballs then chuck her useless carcass in the back of your fcking pick-up drive to her parents house then just leave the now second hand whore on the doorstep with her cunt splayed just to cause shock and offence for it's own sake spit on your fucking grave fucking

[Anonymous No.5195962]

"It would be better that twenty million should die than one should be saved."
-Robinson Jeffers

So, I'd not pull the switch, but then I'd feel guilty about the one person who lived.
Still, in any case, it is better to walk away and not deal with the human bullshit.

>>5195863
>if you were actually in this situation you'd fucking pull the lever, no matter what bullshit you want to spout trying to convince everyone you wouldn't.

Most people would probably be paralyzed by indecision and do nothing.

[Reality Check !Z6/0YaJApk No.5196029]

>>5195863
No I wouldn't. Don't assume everyone is a weak minded fool like yourself.

[Anonymous No.5196430]

>>5195873
First thing that came into my head, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MK6TXMsvgQg

[Anonymous No.5196436]

My problem with these theoretical situations is the plausibility of it. It's like that kid in middle school who asked you if you were in a room with Hitler and a gun and Hitler was going to push a button that would blow the world to smithereens, but you had the opportunity to kill Hitler. Where's the relevance to real life, here?

[Anonymous No.5196462]

>>5196436
I agree that these kinds of things lead to lots of navel-gazing, but it is somewhat interesting to think about.

[Anonymous No.5196478]

A farmer and his son had a beloved stallion who helped the family earn a living. One day, the horse was tied to train tracks in a fiendish thought experiment and killed by the train when a utilitarian flipped a switch to save 6 other horses, and their neighbors exclaimed, “Your horse was killed, what terrible luck!” The farmer replied, “Maybe so, maybe not. We’ll see.”

A few days later, the other horses who were saved appeared on the farm as well. The neighbors shouted out, “YNow you have six horses! What great luck!” The farmer replied, “Maybe so, maybe not. We’ll see.”

Later that week, the farmer’s son was trying to break one of the mares and she threw him to the ground, breaking his leg. The villagers cried, “Your son broke his leg, what terrible luck!” The farmer replied, “Maybe so, maybe not. We’ll see.”

A few weeks later, soldiers from the national army marched through town, recruiting all the able-bodied boys for another experiment where they were going to tie able-bodied boys to train tracks (this happened almost every week, it seemed). They did not take the farmer’s son, still recovering from his injury because the experiment required healthy men of worth rather than fucking cripples. Friends shouted, “Your boy is spared, what tremendous luck!” To which the farmer replied, “Maybe so, maybe not. We’ll see.”

[Anonymous No.5196479]

So is there actually a 'correct' answer to this, with some reasoning to back it up?

[Anonymous No.5196495]

>>5196479

Either option has its own pros and cons. There are also several variations that change the weight of either option.

However the real answer has been made. They can simply roll off

[Reality Check !Z6/0YaJApk No.5196499]

>>5196479
Implying they're all strangers...

Don't pull the switch if you don't want to murder someone to save 5 others who have no value to you.

Pull the switch if you believe in that "needs of the many" bullshit.

[Anonymous No.5196501]

>>5196479
isn't it obvious? If life has any value, 4 lives have more value than one does. So you should kill one guy.

But if you are some insane Shopenhauer antynatalist, then you should kill 4 guys

[Anonymous No.5196511]

>>5196501
>>5196499
>>5196495
ok, so there isn't

[Reality Check !Z6/0YaJApk No.5196559]

>>5196501
The lives have no value if you're not familiar with any of these plebs.

[Anonymous No.5196595]

>>5196501
No. By doing nothing, you're not killing anyone. 4 people are going to do if you don't do anything. They were going to die had you not been there to pull that switch. If you pull the switch, you are murdering a person. You're a murderer. And, as pointed out in >>5194392, killing someone is not the same as letting people die. People are dying around the world right now - why aren't you doing what you can to lessen the loss of life? Be consistent. Don't pull the switch.

[Anonymous No.5196732]

>>5194735
>ancient greece had trollies but no people

[Anonymous No.5196738]

>>5196595
What if I value the lives of the 5 people more than my own sense of innocence?

[Anonymous No.5196743]

>>5196501
If life has any value, you wouldn't kill anyone.

[Anonymous No.5196753]

>>5196743
Life having value is exactly why I would kill someone.

[Anonymous No.5196766]

>>5196753
That life you take is not valuable then.

[Anonymous No.5196771]

>>5196766
>If you pay 1 dollar to get 20 dollars, then one dollar never had value in the first place

[Anonymous No.5196776]

>>5196771
If you're reducing human lives to currency, you must not have much respect to life.

[Anonymous No.5196779]

>>5194376
>Implying free will exists

[Anonymous No.5196789]

>>5196779
>implying it doesn't

[Reality Check !Z6/0YaJApk No.5196795]

>>5196738
If that were the case you would be in the military.

[Anonymous No.5196796]

>>5196795
That would be valuing death more than my own innocence.

[Anonymous No.5196801]

>>5196789
>implying there's any convincing argument for free will.

[Anonymous No.5196803]

>>5196779
>implying you have a choice but to accept it does

[Anonymous No.5196805]

>>5195962
>"It would be better that twenty million should die than one should be saved."

>google that quote
>0 results
Nice made up shit anon.

>>5196029
Fuck mang you are seriously the worst tripfag I've ever seen post. Jim Profit had more value as a channer than you.

[Reality Check !Z6/0YaJApk No.5196811]

>>5196796
The military isn't limited to being a foot soldier. You could be a pilot and carpet bomb the middle east.

[Anonymous No.5196815]

>>5195863
Put a fedora and a neckbeard on the fatso and I might do it.

[Anonymous No.5196816]

>>5196803

>implying "beliefs" are required for instinctual action

[Anonymous No.5196822]

guyz

[Anonymous No.5196831]

>>5196595
Oh because the notion "murder by omission" does not exist in your philosophical dream world? This is absolute bullshit, and so is the distinction between killing and letting die.

Consider the following : you're walking your dog on the sidewalk when suddenly a car loses control, flips over and gets on fire gta style. Say you could safely sneak in through a broken window and save the pregnant woman inside and you don't ( because killing =/= letting die). Do you really think you're absolved of crime if you just walk away??

[Anonymous No.5196833]

>>5196822
Looks like a killing joke.

[Reality Check !Z6/0YaJApk No.5196841]

>>5196831
No logical connection as you are not killing someone to save her. Even so you don't have a moral obligation to save her.

[Anonymous No.5197006]

Leave the lever alone, then stomp the other guy's face in so he dies too. Because I based my decision on some misguided, bullshit, absolutist moral philosophy instead of just doing the obvious thing and saving as many people as I could.

[Anonymous No.5197027]

With a track gauge that narrow and a carriage that tall and top heavy, there's no way that trolley is making it past the junction without a bogie exchange. The worst damage I would predict arising from the scenario is a broken femur, if the trolley topples directly onto the lever, and potential structural damage to the trolley.

[Anonymous No.5197029]

>>5195892
only valid response

[Anonymous No.5197148]

>>5194400
This
Non-interventionist master race

[Anonymous No.5197354]

>>5196595
>People are dying around the world right now - why aren't you doing what you can to lessen the loss of life?
Don't you feel the world would be a better place if we did care about the fact that people were dying around the world and realised that we could do something to help it? Don't you feel that we really ought to strive to minimise the suffering in this world?

[Anonymous No.5197430]

>>5195467
Archive link?

[Reality Check !Z6/0YaJApk No.5199355]

>>5197354
Peter Singer pls go fuck another sheep

[Anonymous No.5199382]

>>5194376

[Anonymous No.5199438]

Moral dilemmas are the sort of thing you're just supposed to grin and bear. Otherwise they consume you, corrupt every inch of you. Take Heath Ledger, for example -- a man who so completely owned the perpetration of one that he committed suicide to escape from it. Idealism works.

[Anonymous No.5199515]

well /lit/? do you kill a stranger to save yourself?
inb4 stirner

[Anonymous No.5199545]

>>5199515
Stirner indeed. And there's the philosophy in its entirety for you -- funny people circle jerk about it, right?

[Anonymous No.5199562]

>>5199515
Kill the stranger. That isn't even an ethical conundrum.

[Anonymous No.5199571]

>>5199515
>>5199562
But if you both pull the lever you'll get into a multi-track drifting situation.

[Anonymous No.5199581]

>>5199515
Is the stranger important? If it was me and Caesar I'd much sooner take my own life.

[Anonymous No.5199582]

>>5199571

so be it

at least that motherfucker doesnt get away leaving me for deads

[Anonymous No.5199590]

>>5199581
you don't find out if you kill him, you do if you save him

[Anonymous No.5199591]

Those two guys don't even seem to be fastened to the tracks though...

[Anonymous No.5199592]

If you're a fatalist like me I'd have no problem leaving things to happen as they would naturally

[Anonymous No.5199595]

>>5199581
You're a fool then.

[Anonymous No.5199596]

>>5199590
i meant that the other way round, you only find out if you kill him

[Anonymous No.5199597]

>>5199596
Then kill him, fuck that.

>>5199595
Death is not so bad, otherwise Socrates would have feared it.

[Anonymous No.5199608]

>>5199515

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3Uos2fzIJ0

[Anonymous No.5199619]

>>5199597
Caesar was not so great, otherwise the Chinese would have feared him.

[Anonymous No.5199620]

>>5199619
Your logic is impeccable.

[Anonymous No.5199626]

>>5199619
The Chinese were not so great, otherwise Caesar would have conquered them.

[Anonymous No.5199661]

>>5199515
Even Kant said that, if two men find themselves on a raft that can only support one of them, it is right to kill the other and save yourself.
The other guy dies.

>>5199581
Congratulations on being a sucker and, literally, a pleb.

[Anonymous No.5199671]

>>5199626
If Caesar was such a great conquering hero, why did his best friend stab him?

Checkmate, imperialists.

[Anonymous No.5199682]

>>5199671
>lol it took 40 of u scrubs 2 kill me

[Reality Check !Z6/0YaJApk No.5199686]

>>5199515
This would be more interesting if there were 5 strangers on the other track. Most people on here would still save themselves though. The same people would also willingly kill someone else to save 5, hypocrites

[Anonymous No.5199700]

I wouldn't move the lever because I'd be effectively killing a person. The number of lives loss is irrelevant to me because I didn't cause the catastrophe and any number of lives lost is still terrible. I'd just leave it as it is.

[Anonymous No.5199707]

>>5199686
I value my life more than the life of five strangers. Nothing hypocritical about that. It would be hypocritical if I said you ought to sacrifice yourself for five strangers, while I didn't believe I ought to.

[Anonymous No.5199712]

>>5199608
i had this in mind ;)

[Anonymous No.5199715]

>>5194376

check

[Anonymous No.5199718]

>>5199715
this makes me want to leave it alone even more, because instead of willingly killing one person i could be killing dozens

[Reality Check !Z6/0YaJApk No.5199728]

>>5199707
Fuck me I get that, but what would you do in the original scenario

[Anonymous No.5199747]

[Reality Check !Z6/0YaJApk No.5199763]

>>5199747
The choice is simple. Israel has no right to exist.

[Anonymous No.5199770]

increase nasa funding

[Anonymous No.5199775]

>>5199747

[Anonymous No.5199780]

>>5199775
>>5199763
>implying the land doesn't belong to the jews
they were gifted it, now they can be classed as conquerors. they are responding to aggression from former inhabitants, much in the same way that britain stamped down the argentines

[Reality Check !Z6/0YaJApk No.5199788]

>>5199780
It doesn't.

[Anonymous No.5199790]

>>5199661
>Even Kant said that, if two men find themselves on a raft that can only support one of them, it is right to kill the other and save yourself.
If both are determined to live, neither one wishing to forfeit their life for the other, it's no issue. No life is more valuable to another when it comes to those ethics.

[Anonymous No.5199795]

>>5199780

is this what /lit/ baiting looks like?

[Anonymous No.5199796]

>>5199780
>if someone conquers or receives something it belongs to them forever

[Anonymous No.5199798]

>>5199796
correct

[Anonymous No.5199810]

>>5199798
who gifted it to them?

[Anonymous No.5199815]

>>5199810
Why, white people with no claim to the land, of course! Clearly that was a legitimate transaction.

[Anonymous No.5199818]

>>5199810
the british

[Anonymous No.5199822]

>>5199815
>no claim to the land
they won it from the ottomans

[Anonymous No.5199823]

>>5199798
>>5199818
I guess we should give Rome back to Germany, it clearly belongs to them since the Goths conquered it.

[Anonymous No.5199825]

>>5199822
Who also had no legitimate claim to the land.

[Anonymous No.5199826]

>>5199815
>>5199818

thanks

[Anonymous No.5199835]

>>5199825
lol we could keep going back and back through the centuries or you could consider that people who weren't even born when the country was no longer under their peoples' control have no right to claim it. a twenty year old in gaza has no right to say that israeli land belongs to them simply because their great grandparents lived there

[Anonymous No.5199854]

>>5199823
no because rome is under italian control as they were the most recent conquerors of the region.

[Anonymous No.5199861]

>>5199818

only because the zionist militias blew up British HQ at the King David Hotel and Britain didn't have enough money to do anything about it

[Anonymous No.5199869]

>>5199835
How about a twenty year old in Gaza who just had his house he lived in all his life bombed? Or a Palestinian in the West Bank region who was forcibly removed from his house and had to watch it be bulldozed to make way for Israeli settlers?

[Reality Check !Z6/0YaJApk No.5199871]

>>5199861
Nice way to thank the people who liberated you from the holocaust

[Anonymous No.5199876]

>>5199871
What do the Russians have to do with any of this?

[Anonymous No.5199886]

>>5199871
>britain liberated the jews
please, they simply helped defeat the germans. there was no motive to free the jews, just a consequence of the end of the war

>>5199869
well i disagree entirely with israeli settlements in the west bank, but would say that israeli defence from palestinian attacks is justified (yet tragically disproportionate). Simply because a palestinian's house is bombed does not justify his claim to extra-territorial land.

[Anonymous No.5199895]

>>5199763
No state has a "right" to exist. Land is either seized or lost.

The Zionists learned their lesson in the Holocaust. The Jews tried to play nice and be good citizens, and they got murdered for it. There is no good or evil or right or wrong and god will not save you, there is only power.
So the liberal whiners and arab sympathizers can sit around all damn day and wring their hands about the poor Palestinians, it makes no difference. I wish them luck in their colonial project.

[Anonymous No.5199899]

>>5199876
>hurr russians won the war
it was objectively a joint effort, the russians would have lost without britain and america, and vice versa

[Anonymous No.5199906]

>>5199886
>israeli defence from palestinian attacks is justified
I would reverse that and say the Palestinian defense against Israeli oppression is justified.

>his claim to extra-territorial land.
He isn't claiming anything but the ability to survive unmolested.

You're pretty clueless about what's going on there considering how opinionated you are.

[Anonymous No.5199907]

>>5199876
>muh Red Army
>muh casualties
What a shame that America, Britain, and France got involved in the war. Had Germany and Russia gone one-on-one against each other, both would be crushed and we wouldn't have to deal with the USSR pretending like they deserved land for their military incompetence.
>mfw Russia had more casualties than every other country combined

[Anonymous No.5199910]

>>5199895
Holy fuck can you get more statist than this

[Anonymous No.5199911]

>>5199899
>the russians would have lost without britain and america
Prove it.

[Muck Bulligan !!ryE2gEjGbpu No.5199918]

>>5196029
i'm not assuming everyone is, just that you are

[Anonymous No.5199948]

>>5199906
>>his claim to extra-territorial land.
>He isn't claiming anything but the ability to survive unmolested.
palestine claims all israeli territory as theirs

>>5199911
prove it? how about the fact that the germans made enormous gains into russia up until 1942, only suddenly losing at stalingrad and moscow because they had to focus forces on the western front and africa. if all of their forces in france, egypt and libya, alongside the italians were focused on the eastern front, the russians would have been mincemeat. the germans had 3.5 million troops on the western front in 1939-40, and a similar amount in the east. doubling the size of their army, as well as massively increasing their weapons, tanks, planes, halftracks etc. deployed to the east would have resulted in russian annihilation

[Anonymous No.5199950]

>>5196831
>Do you really think you're absolved of crime if you just walk away??
Yes, of course.

[Anonymous No.5199957]

>>5199950
perhaps lawfully, but not morally
choosing not to save someone when you could easily do so? immoral.

[Anonymous No.5199971]

>>5199948
look at this actual fucking pleb

[Anonymous No.5199979]

>>5199971
?

[Anonymous No.5199980]

>>5199957
Do you know what morality is? It's people commanding you to keep their best interests in mind or else, and the or else is always either violent retaliation or deserting and breaking the mutual contact and beneficial relationship you've developed(but only beneficial in the way that it's a superior mode of existence to all out violence).

[Anonymous No.5199986]

>>5199948
>palestine claims all israeli territory as theirs
This is an inaccurate generalization of radical fringe elements onto the entire population.

[Anonymous No.5199989]

>>5199980
lol so much edginess
>>5199986
then what do they hope to achieve with their rockets?

[Anonymous No.5199997]

>>5199989
I'm not edgy in the slightest. I believe people have a light in them that we all, regardless of pretence, want to share with everyone else.

Morality is just a great hindering violence for the insecure.

[Anonymous No.5200005]

>>5199910
what is statist?

[Anonymous No.5200011]

>>5199907

90% of German casualties occurred on the Eastern Front, 600 German divisions were wiped out by the Red Army.

Incompetence?

[Anonymous No.5200016]

>>5199989
It's desperation. You're talking about people who are regularly bombed, shot, starved, denied water, imprisoned, intimidated and harassed. And this has been the case for over a generation. Most Palestinians don't have any hope for the future and are retaliating out of hopelessness or rage.

Are you as ignorant of the situation over there as you seem, or are you just blinded by ideological adherence to support for Israel?

[Anonymous No.5200023]

>>5199895
Jew Kike Rowling taught this generation well

[Anonymous No.5200025]

>>5199895
This.

There is no point in arguing about who is right or who is wrong here. If you want to do something about it, then actually do something about it, instead of arguing with people on the internet.

[Anonymous No.5200037]

>>5200011
yes, because the germans were outnumbered 8 to 1. i'm saying if they didn't have the distraction of the western front and could focus theirs and their allies' troops to the east they would have defeated the russians.
>>5200016
why do you keep making these baseless claims about my supposed ignorance?

[Anonymous No.5200043]

>>5199895
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dx7irFN2gdI

[Anonymous No.5200048]

>>5200037
It isn't baseless when you demonstrate it with every post.

[Anonymous No.5200052]

>>5200037
If Stalin wasn't so paranoid about forces egging him and Hitler into a fight, Barbarossa probably wouldn't have been nearly as successful as it was in its early stages.

[Anonymous No.5200059]

>>5200052
hitler would have been able to attack two years earlier, in '39, and so the russians would have very limited amounts of tanks. those two years they built hundreds of thousands of t-34s

>>5200048
simply because i believe the land of israel belongs to the jews rightfully i am ignorant.

[Anonymous No.5200065]

>>5200059
>simply because i believe the land of israel belongs to the jews rightfully i am ignorant.
No, it's because of your reasons for believing that. I've already demonstrated why they're ignorant. Reread the posts if you want a refresher on that.

[Anonymous No.5200075]

>>5200065
you haven't demonstrated why they're 'ignorant' you just claim that they are because we disagree

[Anonymous No.5200191]

What would Jesus Christ do? Assuming no miracles/Divine Providence

[Anonymous No.5200203]

>>5200191
he would sacrifice his sanctity by killing the one, condemning himself to hell and saving the five

[Anonymous No.5200211]

>>5200203
damn. jesus is such a bro

[Anonymous No.5200214]

>>5200075
>you haven't demonstrated why they're 'ignorant' you just claim that they are because we disagree

No, I've given you actual examples of the injustice that Palestinians faced at the hands of Israeli occupation.

Do you really think that Israel is justified to deny food, medicine and water to everyone living in Gaza? You think that is a matter of opinion?

[Anonymous No.5200267]

>>5200203
>implying he wouldn't jump in front himself

[Anonymous No.5200272]

>>5200203
>saving the five

But, what about the one who got killed?

[Anonymous No.5200282]

>>5199715
>let it kill the 5, then switch it over so it kills the 1 and flies off the cliff

ez

[Anonymous No.5200290]

>>5195892
Take your pills anon

[Anonymous No.5200300]

>>5200191
He would tell you to give unto the tram what belongs unto the tram and then wander away back into the desert.