History/Historiography Thread

[Anonymous No.5170964]

Add your favourite historians and a book of theirs you like, if you want to.

I'm really not that well versed with historiography and I don't know of many historians. The only historians I have read more than one book of are:

>Ian Kershaw (Fav. Book: Any of the Hitler books)
>Norman Davies (Fav. Book: "Europe")
>Eric Hobsbawm (Fav. Book: "The Age of Extremes: the short twentieth century, 1914–1991")

I really like all three of these historians. Of course I prefer neutral historiography, but all writing is slanted in some form, so I'm not averse to leftist historians, as long as their bias isn't disguised as fact.

[Anonymous No.5171008]

Howard Zinn - A People's History of the United States

[Anonymous No.5171057]

No more historians on /lit/?

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » No.5171116]

>>5170964
I should get some Hobsbawm sometime.

I've read some so-so and some entertaining authors (snobs would dismiss them as pop-historians) I can't say I have a favourite quite yet. I admire Braudel enough, but the man ticked me off fairly early on by not even mentioning neocolonialism at an appropriate point int A History of Civilization. I'll continue reading him though.

John Julius Norwich is a fun easy read. Breezing through his Byzantium books, I think I want to get his book on the Popes (and I don't even like those people. He'll make it fun)
I've read two Joseph Ellis books (American Sphinx, Founding Brothers) and he seems about on the same level as David McCullough. Good reads, slightly to the political right.

I read Adrienne Mayor's The Poison King, about Mithradates, and she entertains all the myths and legends (inventing only one to ponder) but is always sure to tell you its just that.

I also read Lucy Rial's Garibaldi | Invention of a Hero. Which isn't a straight bio but an in depth looks at the man's revolutionary career. Very serious work.

[Anonymous No.5171158]

I've always really loved History, but I don't think I've ever read a history book I really enjoyed. Apparently I only ever read the shit ones that read like bad elementary school textbooks.

[Anonymous No.5171180]

I liked Charles Mann's 1491 and 1493.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » No.5171185]

>>5171158
Oh I used to read those. Christian school history books even. So awful.

[Anonymous No.5171190]

>>5171008
>this bait

[Anonymous No.5171197]

What country has the most interesting history? I've gotten enough American history. Where next/

[Anonymous No.5171204]

>>5171185
Christian history text books are awful. At my school they used Bob Jones University Press. It was so bad that even a moronic cretin like my teenaged self could see through it.

[Anonymous No.5171208]

>>5170964
I'm reading through Gibbon's History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire again. If you haven't read it I definitely recommend it. It has a few dated concepts at its core, but it remains a great stepping stone into Roman history.

Other than Gibbon, I've been reading quite a few classics this year. My two favorites have been The Histories by Herodotus and The Jewish War by Josephus.

[Anonymous No.5171211]

>>5171197
The history of China is the history of the world.

[Anonymous No.5171212]

Max Boot - Invisible Armies was pretty entertaining for a history book. I study history at university but due to time constraints etc. I rarely get to read more than one paper by each historian. I don't even have a favourite historian. I prefer memoirs or informal history way more. Once I'm done my degree (zyzz help me) I'll maybe get back into reading history for fun. I want to read books by Gibbon, Foner, Hobsbawm, Chomsky, Churchill, Frantz Fanon, Edward Said, and more memoirs.

[Anonymous No.5171229]

>>5171211
got any good reccs for interesting books on Chinese history?

[Anonymous No.5171236]

>>5171197
OP here.

The UK, probably.

Ireland and Britain's shared history is fascinating. I really love Irish history, especially late 19th/early 20th century - the Irish war of Independence, the Irish Civil War etc.

Then, of course, France of the 18th and 19th C, and Prussia/Germany of the 19th/20th C. I am especially interested in Berlin and Germany during the cold war. A great semi-historical book I like is "Stasiland" by Anna Funder. It's just so easy to read, but well written - it's a very personal book, but it has great first-hand research through interviews.

I am also fascinated by the Spanish Civil War. Orwell's Homae to Catalonia is a great autobiographic/historical piece to read on that.

[Anonymous No.5171242]

>>5171236
>white people misbehaving
i might as well just read the Great Gatsby or the Scarlet Letter. no thanks.

[Anonymous No.5171243]

>>5171197
I would also recommend Chinese history. It's incredibly rich and the sheer quantity of history covered is unbelievable.

[Anonymous No.5171246]

>>5171208
Thanks for that!

Would you have any recent history historians to recommend?

[Anonymous No.5171248]

>>5171243
see
>>5171229

[Anonymous No.5171252]

>>5171242
>Asks for recommendations of countries to read about
>Acts like a cunt to a person who takes the time to respond to him

Get fucked. Why are you asking for help when you're so clearly more informed than us?
If you've only read American history, you must be retarded or living under a rock.

[Anonymous No.5171258]

If you like Medieval history check out works of George Duby. He is by far the best expert on medieval social history IMHO. Age of Cathedrals is a must-read. I also recommend his description of Battle of Bouvines.

If you like antiquity and Dark ages i recommend Bury. His Barbarian Invasion of Europe makes the clusterfuck that was IV and V century in Roman Empire far more clearer.

If you are interested in Byzantine history then Ostrogorsky's History of the Byzantine State should help.

[Anonymous No.5171262]

>>5171242
The fuck? Are you only interested in black people misbehaving or something?

Sounds like you're not into history at all mate.

[Anonymous No.5171263]

>>5171252
>buttfrustrated brit
don't you need to polish Big Ben or something

[Anonymous No.5171269]

>>5171263
Are you really the same guy who asked for help in this thread?
You seem to have a touch of NPD there mate. I'd get it checked out if I were you.

Also, I'm not British. Surprising as it may be, I have read about countries other than my own, unlike you.

[Anonymous No.5171285]

>>5171258
Thanks for that, man.

Have you ever read The King's Two Bodies by Ernst Kantorowicz?

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » No.5171293]

>>5171197
Start with the Greeks

[Anonymous No.5171302]

>>5171246
As far as recent historians go I could recommend Everitt's Cicero as a decent historical biography. I'm not a huge fan of the rest of his work, but this stands out heads and shoulders above the rest. I would also recommend Churchill's The World Crisis. There's obviously bias at play but it's still very engaging and informative.

>>5171248
I wouldn't consider myself well read as far as Chinese history goes, but if you want a great overview and introduction to the subject I would recommend Bamber Gascoigne's The Dynasties of China. It's an easily digestible read that covers the history of imperial China. I used it as a jumping off point to more specific periods of history that caught my attention while I read through it.

[Anonymous No.5171304]

>>5171293
what would you suggest reading first then?

[Anonymous No.5171315]

>>5171302
Alright that China book sounds good. Thanks.

[Anonymous No.5171328]

>>5171302
I also forgot to mention that if you like The World Crisis to continue into his The Second World War. It's basically a continuation of the former and is just as interesting a perspective on world events.

[Anonymous No.5171336]

H H Scullard for anyone keen on Roman history. I'm halfway through A History of the Roman World 753-146 BC. The way he demonstrates the ingenuity and uniqueness of Roman political and state organization is really good, and helps you appreciate how impressive these people were.

[Anonymous No.5171341]

>>5171302
>>5171328
Thanks. I would read Churchill with a highly critical eye, as I know he was prone to self-aggrandisation. It was part of the reason the Brits chucked him out of office as soon as the war was over, wasn't it? He took a bit too much credit for their success, which left a bad taste in the mouths of the families who had lost a son or two.

Thanks again, man.

[Anonymous No.5171344]

>>5171197
Medieval Europe.

[Anonymous No.5171345]

>>5171344
Don't respond to that cunt.

[Anonymous No.5171350]

>>5171345
you're hurting my feelings

[Anonymous No.5171356]

>>5171350
Classic NPD

[Anonymous No.5171360]

Das Boot is a pretty good book on the German Army from the past to WW2

[Anonymous No.5171366]

>>5171356
I'll read your white people book, i promise. just stop screaming at me

[Anonymous No.5171370]

>>5171366
Do you actually have a problem or are you just spineless?

[Anonymous No.5171375]

>>5171360
Sorry, I meant Jackboot by John Laffin

[Anonymous No.5171393]

>>5171336
Thanks for that. Looks interesting. I never know who to choose when it comes to ancient history.

[Anonymous No.5171401]

>>5171370
please stop screaming. i went out and bought the first English History book i could get my hands on. the cashier couldn't even understand me through my tears

[Anonymous No.5171415]

>>5171401
What's sad is that you think you're funny.

Also, maybe you should read Gatsby, as your punctuation and grammar leave a lot to be desired.

Why do edgy little shits always derail threads like this?

[Anonymous No.5171425]

Can we all agree to stop with the shitposting?

I would also like to know if anyone could recommend a book or series of books that covers the Holy Roman Empire? I've been interested in reading more about its political system and haven't been able to find anything yet.

[Anonymous No.5171428]

>>5171415
b-but that's my aesthetic

[Anonymous No.5171487]

Just finished Richard Hofstadter's The American Political Tradition, which was great.
I'm almost done with Ronald Syme's The Roman Revolution, which is probably the best non-fiction writing I've ever read. Highly recommended to anyone who's interested in Roman history.

[Anonymous No.5171555]

>>5171487
>I'm almost done with Ronald Syme's The Roman Revolution, which is probably the best non-fiction writing I've ever read. Highly recommended to anyone who's interested in Roman history.
I read about 100 pages of this, then decided I was going to familiarize myself with the primary sources more before giving that beast another go. I wouldn't be surprised if it ranks among the best non-fiction works. The little I did read was brilliant.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » No.5171698]

>>5171304
PICTURED. >>5171293

[Anonymous No.5171796]

>>5171197
Depends what you're into.
France has good stuff if you're into violent uprisings and monarchs (so does England)
Holland has great economical and political history, but you're going to need some serious patience to understand the Dutch Republic (I've heard a lecturing professor call The Dutch Republic the first actual country in history, so that's pretty interesting)
China/Mongolia/Japan and all that have great military and social military history from what I know of.
I personally don't care for America, so allow that.
And colonialism in Africa is interesting aswell. Congo especially.

captcha: for ntDetat
Go away Louis XIV.

[Anonymous No.5171816]

>>5171487
Be sure to also check out The Last Generation of the Roman Republic after you are done with Syme's work (http://www.mediafire.com/view/y7hypwl4ff7tm6u/The_Last_Generation))

[Anonymous No.5171963]

Historyfags!! How is the annales school of historians? Fernand Brodel in particular.

[Anonymous No.5172015]

>Eric Hobsbawm

Honestly, why do people celebrate this historian in this day and age?

Marxist analysis works to a degree, but his thesis that nationalism didn't exist until the 19th century is just bullshit.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » No.5172031]

>>5171963
How is it? Its nice enough to read for me.
People here tend to complain that its too dry, but from the intro and one section on the middle east/Islam from A History of Civilization, Braudel was an interesting enough read.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » No.5172041]

>>5172015
This doesn't sound right. Perhaps he was just redefining post-revolutionary nationalism

[Banji but not a cunt No.5172081]

>>5170964
>Norman Davies (Fav. Book: "Europe")
some prick flat mate swiped this from me when they moved out
I was fuming
and sad ;_;

[Anonymous No.5172167]

Three books on American history I've enjoyed recently:

Colin Calloway - One Vast Winter Count: The North American West Before Lewis & Clark
Daniel Howe - What Hath God Wrought: Transformation of America 1815-1848
Anne Hyde - Empires, Nations and Families: The North American West 1800-1860

I don't live in the US and I've only studied the civil rights era previously, so most of the material is new to me. Does anyone have recommendations for US labour history from roughly 1865-1939? I think that's the next period I'm going to look into.

[Anonymous No.5172228]

On Politics: A History of Political Thought from Herodotus to the Present - Alan Ryan
Stalin: In the Court of the Red Tsar - Simon Sebag Montifiore
Red Fortress: History of the Kremlin - Catherine Merridale

Some of the best history books I've read in recent months.

[Anonymous No.5172296]

>>5172015
Swedefag history student reporting in.
Nationalism didn't exist before the 19th century according to all of my professors. That thought seemed to spring from Napoleons occupation of Germany which speed from there. That is the explanation we've been given.

[Anonymous No.5172302]

>>5172228
>Stalin: In the Court of the Red Tsar - Simon Sebag Montifiore
I have the "prequel" to that book with Stalin's life up until the point where he became the leader of the USSR. It's on my reading list, is he a fun story teller?

[Anonymous No.5172324]

>>5172302
you should stop stalin and read it

[Anonymous No.5172411]

>>5172324
lmao

[Anonymous No.5172422]

>>5172167
OP here. They're some great recommendations. Thanks for that, man.

>Does anyone have recommendations for US labour history from roughly 1865-1939?
Sorry, no, but you could check stuff about the IWW on JSTOR, if you have access to it somewhere. In my city, anyone can go into the college libraries and use the computers and get access to JSTOR as a result.

[Anonymous No.5172431]

I'd like a book going through german treatment of poles from 1848 to 1918.

[Anonymous No.5172441]

>bias isn't disguised as fact.

That can be a real challenge when dealing with more obscure history (although obscure can simply be a national history if you country is small enough) given how hard it is to find decent reviews/analysis of texts outside of the old bretty gud :DDD 5/5. It gets very frustrating when you are shown two different statements with no way of verifying them outside of seeing who is the more prestigious author which is a lousy method at best.

Also
>that disgusting feel when you see Gavin Menzies work in the history section.

[Anonymous No.5172450]

>>5172441
>that disgusting feel when you see Gavin Menzies work in the history section.
>tfw you see 'the secret' by Rhonda Byrne in the philosophy section

[Anonymous No.5172466]

>kershaw

[Anonymous No.5172483]

>>5172450
Menzies far worse than Byrne even if she has a bigger impact. The speculation and outright bs that guy uses is just unbelievable and enough to actually make me question my views on censorship

[Anonymous No.5172498]

Anne Applebaum. Gulag: A History and Iron Curtain:The Crushing Of Eastern Europe 1944-1956.
Surprisingly Good.

[Anonymous No.5172499]

>>5172466
How about posting an alternative instead of a meme?

[Anonymous No.5172502]

>>5172498
I see this in every bookstore. Perhaps I'll check it out. I'm not much for cold war politics though.

[Anonymous No.5172509]

>>5171963
>tfw when I study history
>tfw I can't remember what the Annales school is about

shamefur dispray

Anyway, I heard great things about Huizinga

[Anonymous No.5172513]

>>5172296
lel, it's like tribalism and the like is a completely novel concept!!

[Anonymous No.5172559]

Are there any good accurate books on Mesoamerica anyone would recommend?

[Anonymous No.5172865]

any recs on the seven years war/war of independence for the average pseudo-intellectual?

[Anonymous No.5172912]

>>5172865
>war of independence
Which one of the million wars do you mean specifically?

[Anonymous No.5172917]

>>5172912
>seven years war/war of independence
top irony
very pedantic and necessary
thanks for the response
exactly what I was looking for

[Anonymous No.5172936]

>>5172917
No really, Si still don't know what you mean. I have a book about Irelands war of independence during the french revolution. I have a book concerning the war of independence 1521-1523 with Sweden trying to secede from Denmark.
I have one about the american war of independence.

[Anonymous No.5172944]

>>5172936
pls use your brain
for your own sake
pls pls pls

[Anonymous No.5172960]

>>5172944
I have one about the 80 years war, it's netherlands trying to secede from Spain. Is it that one you're thinking about?

[Anonymous No.5172997]

>>5171258
Seconding Duby. If you like his style (annales school) then check out Carnival at Romans by Roy Lauderie. Super cheap on amazon, one of the most gripping social histories you will ever read, and fantastic analytic skills.

[Anonymous No.5173396]

Anything on 15th - 20th century Europe?
I mostly interested on the majors powers, the Napoleonic Wars, countries like Prussia and Austria, etc.

[Anonymous No.5173572]

>go to university because when I played GSG and anthropomorphised ancient and medieval kingdoms, and I like imagining Caesar pacing back and forth in front of his troops telling dirty jokes and chewing on a piece of hard soldiers' bread
>forced to endure year after year of female professors whose CVs list their academic interests as shit like "women's daily experience in ________", "the daily experience of women in __________ during the ________", "how many buttons women sewed onto their jackets during the Apocalyptic Death War for Plagueis VI"

[Anonymous No.5173587]

>>5173572
Where the hell are social, cultural, military and political history taught in the same program?

[Anonymous No.5173600]

>>5173587
Eh, what?
It's done everywhere here in Sweden

[Anonymous No.5173616]

>>5172015
>nationalism didn't exist until the 19th century is just bullshit.


That's probably true though. The Greek calling non-Greek-speaking people barbarians is not nationalism.

[Anonymous No.5173626]

>>5172513
tribalism is not nationalism

[Anonymous No.5173677]

>>5172509
>heard about Huizinga
You Dutch, by any chance?

[Anonymous No.5173687]

>>5173677
No, I'm Sheldon

[Anonymous No.5173689]

Daily Reminder: Foucualt is the best historian

[Anonymous No.5173752]

>>5173689
that sounds like a philosopher

[Anonymous No.5173880]

>>5172466
Stay pleb.

[Anonymous No.5173916]

>>5173616
>>5173626
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_XV_of_France#Image.2C_public_opinion_and_history
>It used art as propaganda on a grand scale.
You can't have propaganda without Nationalism.

[Anonymous No.5173946]

>>5171341

That wasn't why, it's because he was ready to start a new war with the Russians and after 2 world wars Britain was tired already.

[Anonymous No.5173965]

American History PhD candidate here.

My area of emphasis is the U.S. West. The following historians not only accessible, but also high-valued:

1) Richard White
2) Frederick Jackson Turner
3) Patricia Limerick
4) Gary Anderson

[Anonymous No.5173972]

>>5173965
Have you read The Great Plains by Walter Prescott Webb?

[Anonymous No.5173983]

Every work by Carroll Quigley is worth reading.

He had a scientific approach to the subject of history which makes his works worth reading.

[Anonymous No.5173995]

>>5173972
I have not (yet). Currently I am reading through Steinbeck and McCarthy's fiction during summer recess. I try supplementing my usual non-fiction readings with works by authors from the region. (You know, going for the in-vogue 'holistic' approach). Will have to check out Webb soon. T.Hanks for the recommendation.

Also, David Worster should be added to my previously posted list.

[Anonymous No.5173998]

>>5173965
What do you think of David McCullough?

[Anonymous No.5174004]

>>5173916
>You can't have propaganda without Nationalism.

How so ?

[Anonymous No.5174010]

>>5174004
Well you can but if it's effective then there obviously is Nationalism and the propaganda in the French revolution worked pretty well.

[Anonymous No.5174027]

>>5173998
He is the master of the armchair historians. I don't recall ever seeing a footnote in McCullough's text (then again, I stay away from him). I have never been assigned a McCullough text in my studies, and no one ever mentions his work in seminars.

I am not sure of his background, either. I try to stay away from historical texts written by "journalists" or "biographers." They are rarely helpful in a scholarly context and serve more to entertain than to bring about new evidence and analysis.

[Anonymous No.5174039]

>>5174027
*puffs pipe* Mm, indeed.

[Anonymous No.5174055]

>>5174010
>Well you can but if it's effective then there obviously is Nationalism

That seems like a strange deduction. Effective propagande comes from a powerful administration with good means of communication. A powerful local mafia could very well make propagande in its hometown. It doesn't need to be nationalist.

The propagande you're alluding to here is monarchist propaganda, so you could argue there is populism here, but populism is a legacy from Athens, it doesn't entail nationalism. I'd say nationalism came precisely when the idea of the country as an ideal replaced the king and its divine authority.

So I'd agree with the idea that nationalism first rose in post-Revolution France (and post-Revolution US) but that means it emerged at the very leate eigteenth century at best.

[Anonymous No.5174056]

>>5174027
I asked because my father was in the states and I asked him to ask the staff at a large bookstore about a history on the united states. Three staff members said this guy was the most famous and respected.
I doubted it then and I do it now. My suspicions are always aroused when I see non-historians writing history books. Thanks anon.

[Anonymous No.5174059]

>>5173965
>Patricia Limerick

>It is easy to tell who the bad guys are – they are almost invariably white, male, and middle-class or better, while the good guys are almost invariably non-white, non-male, or non-middle class.... Anglo-American civilization....is represented as patriarchal, racist, genocidal, and destructive of the environment, in addition to hypocritically betrayed the ideals on which it supposedly is built.

[Anonymous No.5174069]

>>5173965
How true was reality to the vision of the Wild West?

How important was barbed wire?

[Anonymous No.5174086]

>>5174059
Your greentext is, sadly, correct. 'New West' historians (like Limerick) are very much far-left liberals that are anti-Anglo, and anti-male. However, she, and others like her, are major forces in the field today. You may disagree with her (as I do at times) but you still need to know her work.

Plus, she did pioneer the idea that the West should be treated "as a place" instead of a never-ending process of "conquering the wilderness" as Turner opined.

>>5174056
Welcome.

[Anonymous No.5174095]

>>5173965
Check this out.
It may be of value for your research.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Not-Wild-West-Economics/dp/0804748543

[Anonymous No.5174097]

>>5174069
The West was very different from how Hollywood portrays it. Westerners were not rugged, independent gunslingers that made their own way without any help. Westerners were dependent on the Federal Government for everything. Need land? Feds provide free land. Need more land? Feds remove Native kebab. Need water? Feds start irrigation systems. Need even more land (you know, to graze your cattle)? Feds allow ranchers to graze on public land and national parks.

The West was essentially the story of people receiving government hands out, then bitching about the government controlling their lives. Then again, that is the story of America.

Barbed wire was important in that it transformed the idea of the West as open terrain for all to use.

[Anonymous No.5174121]

>>5174059
This is kinda true though. The Romans were by no means glorious enlightened rulers but compared to the later Anglo and European colonizers they were merciful and open minded.

[Anonymous No.5174125]

>>5172296

Pålitliga egalitära professorer förstår jag :)

[Anonymous No.5174130]

>>5174125
Episkt /b/roder. Helt enkelt episkt.
>faktiskt tro på 4chans version av vad som händer i Sverige

[Anonymous No.5174143]

>>5174125
>>5174130
Sverige Pålitliga tro förstår jag

[Anonymous No.5174148]

>>5174059


its funny because the bad guys, radleft intellectuals, often were indeed white, male, and insulated from want.

[Anonymous No.5174207]

Ok guys, move on, or let thread die?

[Anonymous No.5174240]

>>5174207
>vlc

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » No.5174261]

>>5174207
>Much history to be explored
>History not even finished
>Wants the thread to die

[Anonymous No.5174280]

>>5174261
Your cat is history!

[Anonymous No.5174286]

>>5173965
OP here. Thanks for these!

If you have any more to name, that would be great. I would love to know some of the best regarded academic historians, and who you prefer.

I'm very interested in American history right now. Anything particular works to recommend?

[Anonymous No.5174325]

Muqaddimah by Ibn Khaldun

[Anonymous No.5174329]

>>5174286


in terms of historiography, i really enjoyed pic related. its conclusions were very novel to me but they treat pretty much everyone else who had a theory on the subject u-p to that point and theres alot of supporting detail. helped reinforce the importance of religion in society for me.

[Anonymous No.5174356]

>>5174286
Outside of Western Historians, these PhDs I recommend:

1) David Blight (Civil War Historian)
2) Eric Foner (Reconstruction Historian)
3) Gordon Wood (Revolutionary War Historian)
4) Daniel Walker Howe (Jacksonian Historian)
5) Mary Berth Norton (Early Colonial New England--Witches Trials)

While each of these five have their own bias (Foner and Blight are 'revisionist' lefties and Howe is a big-money big guy) they are constantly referenced and highly respected.

[Anonymous No.5174362]

>>5174356
>big-money big guy
What does this mean?

[Anonymous No.5174365]

I'm interested in Arabian history. Care to recommend me some books?

[Anonymous No.5174370]

>>5174329
>>5174356

Thanks again, man. I really apreciate it. You may have helped me immeasurably! I'm in an American History course in Europe right now, but my undergrad was in literature and critical theory, so I am somewhat in over my head, but I have a voratious appetite for history, so I look forward to reading new stuff. I just find so many conflicting opinions about historians online, and it's hard to find recommendations for current ones.

I'm also confused right now as I thought critical theory would be off-limits, but Judith Butler's name comes up any time we talk about gender and the continental theorists (such as the Franfurt school) are also mentioned a lot. I'm not going to go too theoretical with my end of term papers, however.

[Anonymous No.5174371]

>>5174325
very sexy, do want, only have a snotty paperback version

[Anonymous No.5174379]

>>5174356
>big guy

[Anonymous No.5174384]

>>5174356
What exactly do you mean by revisionist?

[Anonymous No.5174393]

>>5174384
It can be used in a negative or a postive way.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_revisionism

[Anonymous No.5174399]

Would someone explain a Hegelian dialectic/argument to me like I'm five?

[Anonymous No.5174408]

>>5174370


ive got a period piece reading list too.

Charles Mackay, Life and Liberty in America (1859)
George Steevens, Land of the Dollar (1898)
Paul Bourget, Outre-Mer (1895)
Nehemiah Adams, A South-Side View of Slavery (1860).
Charles Francis Adams Jr., Shall Cromwell Have a Statue? (1902)
Adm. Raphael Semmes, Memoirs of Service Afloat (1869)
James Redpath, The Roving Editor (1859)
Moisei Ostrogorskiy, Democracy and the Party System in the United States (1910)

[Anonymous No.5174420]

>>5174384
All history is "revisionist" but some people say historians are being "revisionist" when they challenge accepted historical ideas. For instance, Blight and Foner examine the Civil War and Reconstruction from a pro-big government, pro-human equality, post-1960s lens, and thus are dubbed 'revisionist' for being too hard on both the North and the South circa 1860s. I don't use the term (or agree with it) myself, but that is a common critique attributed to them.

>>5174370
Welcome. Also, if you want a larger academic reading list, simply google 'history grad reading requirements' or 'phd history reading list.' Many institutions have their reading lists online in pdf form. Almost all history academics have to read upwards of 100 texts and do a verbal test/discussion on them in order to be offered candidacy. Find those lists and you will be golden for quite a while.

[Anonymous No.5174435]

>>5174420
You're a legend.

I wish I could pick your brain. I do feel at a disadvantage to some others in my class, having not studied history at an undergraduate level, but I am an enthusiastic amateur historian and I think it has served me well. My weakness is not being too familiar with the more academic/academically-accepted historians. I've read plenty of older texts, broad histories, autobiographies, biographies and critical theory/history texts.

>>5174408
Thanks for that, man! I'm very interested in older works as possible dissertation subjects.

[Anonymous No.5174456]

>>5172167
Let me know if you find an answer to that US labor history question, I would be interested to read that as well.

[Anonymous No.5174460]

>>5174399
i think it's pic related, but i'm lazy

[Anonymous No.5174484]

>>5174329
>helped reinforce the importance of religion in society for me.
You had me going there for a second.

[Anonymous No.5174496]

>>5174399
Hegelian dialectics follow the thesis->antithesis->synthesis progression.

Thesis is the intial state of an argument, antithesis is an opposite state, which opposes the thesis, but also complete it. Synthesis is overcoming the opposition between thesis and antithesis not by compromise but by creation of a third term that draws for the mutual completion they partake in.

A good example is the growth of a fruit: the seed becomes flower, the flower becomes fruit. Each step is a negation (the flower is not the seed, the fruit not the flower), a conservation (they have the same genomics) and a overcoming (the flower has abilities that the seed doesn't have, and so on...) of the step before. It's a dialectical progression.

[Anonymous No.5174511]

>>5172015

Most respected authors locate the rise of nationalism around the 18th and 19th century

>inb4 MUH RED PILL

[Anonymous No.5174512]

>>5174496
Thank you! Very informative. I felt like I had it down, but I was wondering if I was missing something as the term "Hegalian dialectics" sounds so imposing. I felt as if I had half the story.

[Anonymous No.5174529]

>>5174356
>big guy

[Anonymous No.5174537]

>>5174512
I heard Hegel himself didn't use the word "dialectics" a lot in his work, and that people after him (most notably Marx) were the ones to comment massively on it.

[Anonymous No.5174545]

For modern Europe, I would recommend the work of Gunter Barudio, who offers a really interesting perspective of Absolutism

[Anonymous No.5174580]

>>5174537
Interesting. I didn't know that. Thanks!

I suppose it could come down to semantics. Marx did have a great talent for a catchy term or phrase, also - "commodity fetishism" is a great one.

[Anonymous No.5174614]

>>5174362
Big-money aka pro-Whig, Federalist, central banking.

Big money aka Bane reference

[Anonymous No.5174624]

>>5174456
>>5172167

Labor history during the Gilded Age:

-Killing for Coal
-Reinventing Free Labor
-Railroaded

Do not remember the authors off-hand, and cannot be bothered to check. All West American History.

[Anonymous No.5174635]

>>5171116
>I should get some Hobsbawm sometime.
I know a guy who sells it down the street

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » No.5174679]

>>5174635
Meh. Street vendors are always tryna pass off abridged copies.

[Anonymous No.5174714]

>>5174545
Are there any English versions of his works?

[Anonymous No.5174721]

>>5174714

No idea, I read him in Spanish, so I guess there's an English translation as well

[Anonymous No.5174736]

>>5174721
What is so unique about his view on absolutionism because I might not be able to find a translation?

[Anonymous No.5174849]

>>5174379
Forscore and seven yous ago,

[Anonymous No.5174873]

>>5174399
>>5174496
Note Hegel never uses the terms thesis/antithesis/synthesis.

For Hegel history is a violent process of opposing ideas and systems being mushed into one another for "higher" systems to be conceived. Periods of peace are afterthoughts and mistakes. Basically, there is a teleological aspect to history, which for him is directly informed by his metaphysics (i.e. it's Idealist). But you can put whatever "engine" you want underneath the impetus to dialectic and still retain the same idea.

>As Marx famously explained afterwards, concretely that meant that if Louis XVI's monarchic rule in France was seen as the thesis, the French Revolution could be seen as its antithesis. However, both were sublated in Napoleon, who reconciled the revolution with the Ancien Régime; he conserved the change.

In practical terms though if you see historians talking about dialectical processes they often just mean a back-and-forth, usually with each movement augmenting the intensity of either side, but sometimes not even that. Just from what I've seen.

[Anonymous No.5175378]

>>5174484


take a minute and think about that statement.

[Anonymous No.5175464]

>>5173600
>Sweden in charge of not re-writing history for women and Arabs

We had a good run, Sweden. Don't worry, your fellow European brothers will be joining you in Heaven soon.

[Anonymous No.5175817]

>>5171008
I had a high school US History teacher who made us read that.

I recommended him the other book, "A Patriot's History of the United States" and he laughed.

[Anonymous No.5176147]

>>5174537
He definately uses it to describe others with it, his part on Zeno for example.

[Anonymous No.5176306]

>>5171555
It seems like the primary sources he quotes most are Velleius and Dio. I'll always read more Tacitus, but I don't really plan on wading through the others.

[Anonymous No.5176313]

>>5171816
Will do. Thanks for the share.

[Anonymous No.5176331]

>>5175817
I would laugh too

>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Patriot%27s_History_of_the_United_States
>this is what Americans actually believe

[Anonymous No.5176340]

>>5174121
Pretty sure they were indeed generally merciful and opened minded, by the standards of their own or later times.

[Anonymous No.5176458]

So how about these jews?

[Anonymous No.5177685]

Bump for this evening as this is a very good thread.

[Anonymous No.5177753]

Has anyone read "The French Revolution: A History" by Thomas Carlyle? I feel it has been sitting unopened on my bookshelf for too long.

[Anonymous No.5177791]

I'm a doctoral student in American intellectual and labor history. Ask away, if you have any particular questions. Maybe I can help.

[Anonymous No.5177801]

>>5177791
Thanks man!

Could you give me a list of well regarded academic historians in general American history right now?
Also, a list of some historians of American intellectualism would be great!

[Anonymous No.5177817]

>>5177801

Some prominent practicing American historians:

James Livingston (recommended work: Pragmatism and the Political Economy of Cultural Revolution)

Eric Foner (Reconstruction)

Sven Beckert (Monied Metropolis)

Daniel Rodgers (Age of Fracture)

Jefferson Cowie (Stayin' Alive)

Jennifer Ratner-Rosenhagen (American Nietzsche)
Historians of American intellectualism or American intellectual history?

A great example of both would be James Kloppenberg's Uncertain Victory and Angus Burgin's The Great Persuasion.

[Anonymous No.5177845]

>>5176340
Source on that ? The idea of mercy being a virtue is a Christian one, a angustian-era Roman general or politician would have little use of it, except for populism's sake.

[Anonymous No.5177852]

>>5177817
Thanks man. That's a great help! Thanks for going to the effort of doing that.

As I said earlier in the thread, I'm in an American History course in Europe right now, but my undergrad was in literature and critical theory, so I am somewhat in over my head, and I do feel at a disadvantage to some others in my class. I am an enthusiastic amateur historian, though, and I think it has served me well. My weakness is not being too familiar with the more academic/academically-accepted historians.

[Anonymous No.5177866]

>>5177852

No problem, I love discussing history. Get your hands on a copy of Iggers book on Historiography in the Twentieth Century. Skim through it and you'll get a general impression of where historiography has been and where it is now.

You'll be much more impressed with European historians if you are familiar with critical theory. American historians have an aversion to theory--which is changing, or at least I believe it is.

My program, or at least my main advisor, is deeply theoretical. That's where I feel most at home. I have a relatively strong background in philosophy and theory (relative to other professional historians) so I'm comfortable with theoretical history.

[Anonymous No.5177886]

>>5173572
>brohug käre viking

I fucking hate what the swedes are doing to academia currently, I hope you fucking stood up for yourself

[Anonymous No.5177892]

>>5176458
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFE0qAiofMQ

Jews have been expelled from 109 Nations because they are prone to destroying society in any country they live in.

[Anonymous No.5177894]

>>5172296
Yeah, guess what käre broder, läs på egen hand och så förstår du rätt snart att nationalism frodades långt långt innan 1800-talet.

[Anonymous No.5177902]

>>5177892
The swedish government states that
the central bank gave 40 million SEK (5,7 / 6 mil dollars) to her organization for her to do what she said she would do in the open.

Reference in swedish here:
http://www.regeringen.se/content/1/c4/06/37/995b14ee.pdf

Translation:
"The Jewish Centralcouncil received a one time support of 40 million
crowns from the Riksbank for the incorporation of a European Institute for
jewish culture in Stockholm, Paideia. The Institute has both academic
research and cultural activity. "

[Anonymous No.5177913]

Anyone that's contemporary works of Greece or Ancient Rome and denies that there isn't strokes of nationalism in them is just being infantile.

Just read Anabasis for one, or The Iliad for fucks sake. They are literally a crash course to "nationalism" us vs them.

Same goes for a lot of Roman works. Byzantian, and later Germanic, you can find it the writings of the vikings as well.

And the dreams of a united chinese nation sure as hell existed before the 18th century.

[Anonymous No.5177931]

>>5177892
Note that most those countries haven't been better off.

[Anonymous No.5177946]

>>5177913
Nationalism isn't just a us vs them mentality. The Greeks in the Iliad are a confederation of city-states, not a nation in the modern sense. There's ethnocentrism or tribalism if you want, not nationalism. You've got to think more precisely.

Roman are the worst possible example if you want to see nationalism in the Antiquity. They had no qualms assimilating people with different languages and cultures and considering them parts of the Empire. A native of the Iberic Peninsula under the Empire could be considered Roman citizen and become general or emperor.

[Anonymous No.5177947]

>>5177931
You mean being able to not lock your door before you go to bed?
Not being robbed on the highway when someone waves at you for help.
Well.. i guess it pretty much is the same.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmiW66mmTtg

[Anonymous No.5178074]

>>5177866
Thanks again. All helpful stuff.

I'd love to pick your brain. Are you stuying in the states or in Europe?

[Anonymous No.5178537]

bump these are the kind of threads I keep open until firefox crashes and I hate that I didnt jot down what I wanted to remember

I've always wanted to get into history

[Anonymous No.5178562]

>>5178537
Get 4chanX and add it to your thread watchlist or find it in the archive and bookmark it.

[Anonymous No.5178685]

>>5170964
>favourite historians

Anne Applebaum: Her piece on communist regimes in eastern Europe 1945-56 was great

Max Hastings: unparalleled in military history, especially when it comes to field tactics and 'grand strategy'

Thomas Asbridge: Really a one hit wonder, but his piece on the Crusades finally breathed some life into the subject, and I'd recommend it

[Anonymous No.5179003]

I recommend Passages from Antiquity to Feudalism by Perry Anderson (http://www.mediafire.com/view/jm9icdgjcvv28cg/Passages_from_Antiquity_to_Feudalism.pdf)) which is a relatively short (about 300 pages) work that explores the social, political, and economic world of classical antiquity, the nature of the transition from it to the medieval world, and the structure and evolution of feudalism in Europe and the regional divisions in both of the Mediterranean and of Europe.

From Farm to Factory by Robert C. Allen (http://www.mediafire.com/view/j8uy6mx9fxfrpio/Farm_To_Factory.pdf)) looks at the history of Soviet economic development arguing that many of the reasons given for its failure were wrong and it was far more successful than people give it credit for. What makes it kinda unique is its written by a liberal economist.

Fiefs and Vassals by Susan Reynolds (http://www.mediafire.com/view/iatouqp7fb0590c/Fiefs_and_vassals.pdf)) is a critical look at the concept of feudalism and how it actually existed in the many parts of Europe. I can imagine that it might be difficult to read for some but the concept demands such a detailed and in depth look at the laws of property and social organization, the book coming to about 550 pages.

Mongol Imperialism was posted a while back but in case anybody missed it you can get it here (http://www.mediafire.com/view/4gooa8lgldy4n7i/Mongol_Imperialism.pdf).).
Its a look at how their version of imperialism functioned and I think the book costs around $300-$400 normally.

I didn't get to read all of Adam Tooze's The Wages of Destruction: The Making and Breaking of the Nazi Economy but from what I saw is was a very interesting look a the Nazi economy during peace and war time. I remember him mentioning that Germany lacked the living standards that people thought a “powerhouse” like it should have and that the Nazi economy recovery was not as good as it might of seemed.

The Rise & Fall of Weimar Democracy by Hans Mommsen (http://www.mediafire.com/view/3cxd3e1ux8d4s83/The_Rise_and_Fall_of_Weimar_Democracy.pdf)) is a detailed look of the period and possibly one of the best history books I've ever read. Its not a book for the “lay person” but I would consider it to be assessable enough.

[Anonymous No.5179028]

For anybody looking to read some of the books in the thread who lacks the money or uni access to get your hands on some of these books you should be able go to your local library and get a Inter library loan (also known as ILL) which will allow you to check out books from university that you normally would not be able to check out or would have to be a student there. I don't know about other nations but thats how it works in the US.

[Anonymous No.5179065]

>>5179003
Antiquity to Feudalism, Wages of Destruction, Farm to Factory, and Rise&Fall are all excellent, +1 from me. Thanks for the other links and recommendations, anon, they look good too.

[Anonymous No.5179070]

>>5174496
>Hegelian dialectics follow the thesis->antithesis->synthesis progression.
You're already wrong.

[Anonymous No.5179260]

>>5177791
What are your career prospects like? Are you planning to stay in academia or try and get work in the government?

Would you take the same path if you could start over?

[Anonymous No.5179393]

>>5171197
>What country has the most interesting history?

From beginning to end? India, Egypt, Iraq, Turkey, Iran are all worth looking into.

[Anonymous No.5179397]

>>5174207

i would lick both of their cunts for a year straight

[Anonymous No.5179424]

>>5174365
>I'm interested in Arabian history. Care to recommend me some books?

Hourani - A History of the Arab Peoples is a pretty good overview.

Hodgson - The Venture of Islam covers more than the Arabs and is somewhat outdated, but it's very well done.

Lapidus - A History of Islamic Societies is a more up-to-date and comprehensive treatment, but again, it isn't exclusively concerned with Arabs.

For early Arab history, try Hoyland's Arabia and the Arabs: From the Bronze Age to the coming of Islam.

[Anonymous No.5179435]

>>5179397
Enjoy oral cancer.

[Anonymous No.5179446]

>>5179435

its worth it tho faggot

[Anonymous No.5179767]

>>5170964


eric voeglins 'order and history' is an essential example of the 'history of ideas' genera.

in the same vein i like 'theological origins of modernity' and 'the unintended reformation', which trace how certain developments in medieval thought laid a precedent for/led to the development of dominant contemporary ideologies.

im also a big fan of frederick besier, who niche is pretty much covering german philosophy, pic related (pretty much everything from him is gold, but i also recomend his 'german idealism' and 'the romantic imperative' to begin with).

[Anonymous No.5179787]

>>5174325
>that edition

[Anonymous No.5180197]

>>5174384
You know, like Holocaust revisionists. They think they can negate the objective truth of the historical event of the Holocaust.

[Anonymous No.5180220]

>>5174484
>>5175378
Someone doesn't know of the Demiurge.

According to Marcion, the god of the Old Testament, whom he called the Demiurge, the creator of the material universe, is a jealous tribal deity of the Jews, whose law represents legalistic reciprocal justice and who punishes mankind for its sins through suffering and death. Contrastingly, the god that Jesus professed is an altogether different being, a universal god of compassion and love who looks upon humanity with benevolence and mercy. Marcion also produced his Antitheses contrasting the Demiurge of the Old Testament with the Heavenly Father of the New Testament.

Marcion held Jesus to be the son of the Heavenly Father but understood the incarnation in a docetic manner, i.e. that Jesus' body was only an imitation of a material body, and consequently denied Jesus' physical and bodily birth, death, and resurrection (e.g., he accepted Luke's Gospel yet eliminated portions such as the birth narrative) and thereby denied the historic Christian Gospel (1 Cor 15:3-4).

[Anonymous No.5180517]

>>5179260

Academia, hopefully. I would. I wouldn't be happy doing anything else.

[Anonymous No.5181490]

The Handbook for Rebels and Outlaws (http://www.mediafire.com/view/ovpks97mmhvcxm4/Handbook_for_Rebels_and_Outlaw.pdf)) is by no means a proper history book. It is a collection of bits of historical information about certain people, places, and concepts from all over the globe. I only recommend it because of the large number of obscure historical (in the sense I would not expect people to know many of the things in the book even if you were well read) figures and events in it. If you find anything of interest you are going to have to use other material to research because the book is just too bare bones.

[Anonymous No.5183437]

The Secret History of the Mongols (http://www.mediafire.com/view/06n5emk5vep5idm/Secret_history_of_the_mongols.pdf)) is regarded as the single significant native Mongolian account of Genghis Khan.

[Anonymous No.5184672]

Are you guys looking for more scholarly history or is narrative/popular history acceptable? I'd recommend Alistair Horne., especially his Franco-German trilogy.

The Fall of Paris: The Siege and Commune 1870-71
The Price of Glory: Verdun 1916
To Lose a Battle: France 1940

[Anonymous No.5184695]

>>5184672
I'd say both. Anyone who reads complex theory probably started on some crap like Rubicon years ago. It's not like there's a risk of the latter overwhelming the former, like how certain lit clubs have to ban YA/fantasy/whatever to prevent tyranny of the majority from snuffing everything else out. Historiography is plenty represented here.

[Anonymous No.5184703]

Does anyone have any good books about European Pagans and their religions from a historical standpoint? Most of the books I see are written by people who want to be pagans and teach others about it.

[Anonymous No.5184862]

>>5184695
Are you sure about that? Remember what happened to the history channel.