FANTASY THREAD GENERAL

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FANTASY THREAD GENERAL fantasyfag Sun Jul 20 15:25:49 2014 No.5164034 [Reply] [Original]

FANTASY THREAD GENERAL

itt we discuss:
>sword and sorcery
>high fantasy/epic fantasy
>steampunk fantasy
>science fantasy
>urban fantasy

And all other subgenres of fantasy. Big franchise/doorstopper series (ASOIAF, WoT, and so on) discussion welcome.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 20 15:27:25 2014 No.5164038 Some fantasy essentials for people tired of Tolkien and Jordan riffs: >The Coldfire trilogy - C.S. Friedman >His Dark Materials - Phillip Pullman >The Deepgate Codex - Alan Campbell >Gormenghast - Mervyn Peake >The Elric Saga - Michael Moorcock

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 20 15:28:42 2014 No.5164049 I like fantasy, but why is the fanbase always so manchild or cringe?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 20 15:28:56 2014 No.5164051 File: 624 KB, 500x375, laughing6.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >fantasy general

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 20 15:30:32 2014 No.5164057 I used to read Terry Pratchett a long time ago but lost interest and haven't read much of his newer work. I think I left off at around Night Watch or a little after. What are the better newer Pratchett books?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 20 15:34:08 2014 No.5164064 File: 66 KB, 1280x720, bibble.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Anonymous Sun Jul 20 15:35:49 2014 No.5164071

>>5164049

Because fantasy is detached from reality and therefore appeals to the kind of socially stunted freaks who are also mentally detached from reality through years of bullying, social isolation, or just plain autism and lack of social awareness of reality

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 20 15:35:49 2014 No.5164072 File: 31 KB, 344x520, HOTD.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] I RECENTLY READ THIS BOOK IT WAS PRETTY GOOD BUT IT WAS A LITTLE RACIST AND SEXIST LOL I WOULD GIVE IT A 7/10 WOULD PROBABLY READ MORE ROBERT E HOWARD LOL

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 20 15:37:09 2014 No.5164078 File: 29 KB, 221x346, 51t+-7nOwTL._SY344_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Any love for this book?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 20 15:37:42 2014 No.5164080 >>5164038 The first three of those are shit, the other two are entry-level, go away pleb.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 20 15:38:12 2014 No.5164085 >>5164034 sci-fi is better.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 20 15:45:06 2014 No.5164121 File: 12 KB, 400x400, Autism_Speaks.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5164071

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 20 15:47:43 2014 No.5164133 I really like Caitlin R. Kiernan's urban fantasy novels even if the cover art makes them look like mallgoth paranormal romance nonsense (which they most certainly are not)

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 20 15:48:24 2014 No.5164136 >>5164034 >itt we discuss: >steampunk fantasy how about not?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 20 15:51:54 2014 No.5164158 >>5164121 autism posts an image

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 20 15:58:53 2014 No.5164184 File: 35 KB, 224x423, you_killed_me.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5164133 >Caitlin R. Kiernan >Kiernan is a transsexual,[9] a lesbian, and an atheist pagan.[10 oh lordy

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 20 16:00:14 2014 No.5164187 >>5164184 What's with 4chan's tryhard-edgy discrimination against sexual and religious minorities lately?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 20 16:02:39 2014 No.5164199 >>5164184 LOL >typical fantasy author

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 20 16:04:20 2014 No.5164201 >>5164071 "social awareness of reality"... do you mean "awareness of social reality"? because social "reality" is actually the most fantastical thing I can think of

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 20 16:05:42 2014 No.5164207 >>5164201 >is actually bewildered enough by common social norms to find them "fantastical"

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 20 16:07:29 2014 No.5164213 >>5164187 >lately newfag pls go

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 20 16:10:13 2014 No.5164222 >>5164207 but they are fantastical. how would you even go about disputing this? every society has different social norms.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 20 16:14:17 2014 No.5164240 >>5164222 >I have trouble reading social cues and am too dense to understand them, therefore they're "fantastical" to me

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 20 16:16:38 2014 No.5164250 >>5164240 the post I responded to said "social awareness of reality"? What does that mean, really? why assume I'm autistic?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 20 16:21:58 2014 No.5164273 I finished the prince of thorns earlier this week. Wow how disappointing, I really hope other two books makes up for that rushed out piece of crap. Dunno why people think of it so highly

Anonymous Sun Jul 20 16:22:36 2014 No.5164279

>>5164038
>>The Coldfire trilogy - C.S. Friedman
Decent

>>His Dark Materials - Phillip Pullman
The Golden Compass was fantastic. The rest of the series was shit.

>>The Deepgate Codex - Alan Campbell
Haven't Read

>>Gormenghast - Mervyn Peake
Amazing

>>The Elric Saga - Michael Moorcock
Top Notch

Would also add The Prince of Nothing Series and obligatory Wolfe suggestion.

Anonymous Sun Jul 20 17:17:26 2014 No.5164555
File: 165 KB, 765x1008, Conan_the_Barbarian_by_JoeJusko.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>5164072
Howard is one of the finest crafters of prose the fantasy genre has ever produced. You almost expect him to be a writer from the 80s or 90s given the energy and intensity of his writing.

Howard feels less like a predecessor to fantasy fiction and more like a reaction to it. This is why I think he's intensely relevant today. He's everything George R.R. Martin wishes he could be as a writer.

Anonymous Sun Jul 20 17:36:36 2014 No.5164654

>>5164555
Ehh... I wouldn't go that far. It's true he has nice poetic passages sometimes, but he also has some insanely action heavy sequences and repetitive descriptions.
I assume that he would be better if had the proper time to revise his stories--as it was, I think he was shipping them off as quickly as he was writing them. HPL he is not.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 20 17:43:05 2014 No.5164690 >>5164654 Who would you consider the great stylists of fantasy? I would say Howard, obviously, and also Gene Wolfe and Ursula K. LeGuin.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 20 17:45:36 2014 No.5164704 File: 151 KB, 640x528, image.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5164071 >blah blah blah I'm a normalfag Hey you guys like death gate cycle

Anonymous Sun Jul 20 17:45:59 2014 No.5164706

>>5164690
I mean Howard is a bit up there, but I would probably go with Lord Dunsany or Michael Moorcock. Piers Anthony is good too, and at the risk of getting fedora'd, I like Neil Gaiman as well.
I haven't read much non-SF by LeGuin, but her books are generally pretty great. Gene Wolfe I haven't read much of either.

Anonymous Sun Jul 20 17:49:40 2014 No.5164718

>>5164706
I've been meaning to read the Earthsea books. Right now I'm working through The Book of the New Sun (which might as well be fantasy), and I'm constantly in awe of Wolfe's style. His writing is masterful, and I need to read his Latro books, especially because I have a love for historical fantasy (and have written some myself).

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 20 17:49:59 2014 No.5164721 File: 1.48 MB, 1525x2412, image.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] I finished this today LITERARY ANALYSIS: It had dinosaurs, wizards, and an evil glacier. Also Cthulhu was mentioned. 9.5/10

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 20 17:52:19 2014 No.5164729 >>5164721 Serious question: Is Clark Ashton Smith (and on that note, August Derleth) really worth the time at all or should I just stick with Lovecraft?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 20 18:40:31 2014 No.5165056 >>5164729 I remember reading both of those authors a while back and forgetting about them later

Anonymous Sun Jul 20 19:28:44 2014 No.5165442
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Since there's a good chance whoever reads this thread will be a massive manchild like myself, I want to recommend you check out the Temeraire-series by Naomi Novik. It's perhaps not the same level of prose as Erikson or as fedora-tippingly grimdark as Abercrombie, but it's fun, the setting is well-realized, and the characters are charming.

I especially recommend the audiobooks with the narration by Simon Vance if you're into listening to books while you work/commute/work out, because the voice he does for the dragon is amazing.

Anonymous Sun Jul 20 19:32:09 2014 No.5165470

>Not one mention of Gormenghast yet or Jonathan Strange.

FOR SHAME /lit/, FOR SHAME!

Also, how come nobody has ripped off the back story of Bruce Wayne becoming Batman yet for a fantasy novel? I think we can get away with it considering Batman ripped off Zoro and The Count of Monte Cristo.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 20 19:42:04 2014 No.5165513 >>5165470 >Not one mention of Gormenghast yet >second post in the thread

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 20 19:43:06 2014 No.5165518 What's the best new or currently on-going fantasy series? Double points if it actually has a chance of being finished.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 20 19:43:26 2014 No.5165519 >>5165513 My mistake, you guys have class then when it comes to fantasy.

Anonymous Sun Jul 20 19:44:50 2014 No.5165524

>>5165518

I heard Mistborn was decent, I have the first novel but I haven't started it yet. I heard Sanderson is trying to make his own universe that goes on forever or something like how Marvel or DC do theirs or maybe they just have interconnecting stories.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 20 19:48:57 2014 No.5165541 >>5165518 ASoIaF is the best unfinished fantasy series.

Anonymous Sun Jul 20 19:49:31 2014 No.5165547

>>5165518
I really like Joe Abercrombie's books, especially Red Country, so I have high hopes for his new series that released just a few weeks ago, Shattered Sea Trilogy I think it's called.

Amazon won't make the audio version of that shit available in my region though, and I have dyslexia so I can't tell you if it's actually any good yet.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 20 19:53:12 2014 No.5165572 >>5165547 http://theaudiobookbay.com/audio-books/shattered-sea-1-half-a-king-joe-abercrombie/ Is Half a King in the same universe as The First Law Trilogy?

Anonymous Sun Jul 20 20:00:32 2014 No.5165598

>>5165524
The first Mistborn book is really good, but the second one was so bad just picking it up gave me the motivation to tidy up my cave or go to the gym instead. Reading it was anti-fun.

I quite liked The Way of Kings though. It reminded me of the movie version of A Princess of Mars, and that movie was fun.

The way I've understood it is all his series take place on different planets in the same solar system, and there was this one overgod who split up into like a dozen smaller gods and they spread out across the planets in different groups, which is why each series has its own video game-like magic system. I'm sure it's all very well constructed, but there's nerd shit and then there's Nerd Shit, and I have a limit.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 20 20:22:37 2014 No.5165702 >>5165524 I'm hesitant to read any author with Sanderson's religious or political views but Mistborn sounds like a fun concept and read.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 20 20:24:05 2014 No.5165715 >>5165598 >there's nerd shit and then there's Nerd Shit, and I have a limit. This was my problem with the magic system in Steven Erikson's Malazan books. That shit was more self-indulgent than even the worst episodes of Doctor Who.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 20 20:34:16 2014 No.5165761 >>5164729 CAS, yes, Derleth, no.

Anonymous Sun Jul 20 20:52:59 2014 No.5165836

>>5165715
I've only read the first one, but I felt the opposite way about that. Sure he introduced all these different magics and gods and everything was sorcery in one way or another, but there was never any explanation of how any of it worked, which I really liked. I don't give a shit about the minutiae of magic, I just want to be told a story about people who hit each other with swords and occasionally lighting bolts without needing a spreadsheet to understand what's going on.

Like, that coin everyone wants because it belongs to one of the gods. That boy who carries it just gets spurts of good luck, but the elves from the moon want to kill him because it's too powerful and the Adjunct wants to give the coin to the empress so that she can use it to subjugate the god. You can extrapolate that it contains part of the god's essence and if you know how to use it you have godlike power, but Crokus doesn't have a clue about that so he's just getting some passive bonus to luck from having it in his pocket. It's like Frodo and the Ring. Were it written by Sanderson, half the book would be outlining what gods live in what warrens and what types of conjuration can be do by whom and how it's all based on the color you painted your toenails that morning or what type of grain you had for breakfast.

As an aside, I really like how Erikson tends to describe magic as a liquid, boiling and flowing and dripping and what not.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 20 21:19:24 2014 No.5165946 File: 485 KB, 600x600, 1405902170281.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5165715 >magic system

>>	anon Sun Jul 20 22:03:22 2014 No.5166111 File: 59 KB, 240x180, 600full-gene-wolfe.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Gene Wolf's Book of the New Sun (Shadow and Claw, Sword and Citadel) High fantasy fluidly combined with science fiction. Excellent characters and vivid mythic landscapes.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 20 22:07:49 2014 No.5166134 >>5166111 >tfw gene wolfe will die soon and never again will a masterpiece like the book of the new sun be made by him

Anonymous Sun Jul 20 22:09:48 2014 No.5166141

>>5166134
I wrote him a letter like two months ago. I sent it to his agent, because apparently that's how you get in touch with him.

Someone received it, because it hasn't been RTS'd back to me. I suppose he must be very busy, if he's still working on books, and also he must just get to things pretty slowly at his age. Still, I hope he received it. TBotNS is hugely influential to me both as a reader and a writer, and I'd love for him to know how much his work has meant to me.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 20 22:18:37 2014 No.5166183 >>5166141 maybe he'll personally respond to it and reveal to you intimate details of his personal and creative life that you'll then reveal to all of us here. that'd be real nice. really though, I hope he responds because that'd be really cool.

Anonymous Sun Jul 20 22:24:12 2014 No.5166225

>>5166183
Me too, and if he says something neat I'll surely post it here.

The actual question I asked was: which three writers have had the most influence on you as a writer?

I also mentioned that I assumed that one of them was Melville, because there's a certain likeness between Wolfe's style and Melville's.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 20 22:24:53 2014 No.5166227 >>5166225 GRRM, Jim Butcher, Meyer.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 20 22:47:55 2014 No.5166338 Confession time. I've never read The Book of the New Sun. Should I fix that?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 20 23:16:10 2014 No.5166457 >>5166338 If you enjoy good writing, science fiction, Borges, and/or hallucinatory imaging experiences, then yes.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 20 23:19:25 2014 No.5166475 File: 276 KB, 1024x1248, 1371456620528.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Is Dune fantasy? I know it's considered SF but 'the spice' is about as much of an explanation for this crazy shit than 'it's magic' is.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 20 23:22:17 2014 No.5166483 >>5166338 No, it's mediocre. After about the fourth time you have to read about how some woman is the most beautiful Severian has ever seen and how rock-hard she makes his cock, you're going to get bored.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 20 23:24:36 2014 No.5166490 File: 65 KB, 475x675, mouser.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Fritz Leiber is so good

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 20 23:37:21 2014 No.5166553 >>5166490 Tfw classic fantasy art is no more. It was half of what made fantasy novels good.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 20 23:44:55 2014 No.5166583 >>5164240 >Doesn't actually have an argument, resorts to ad hominem.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 21 02:07:06 2014 No.5167012 >>5166111 I liked the scene where the main character ran into a weird space traveler who'd been around since the ancient past. Good stuff.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 21 02:08:07 2014 No.5167021 >>5166338 It's very dreamlike in style and a worthy read

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 21 02:09:10 2014 No.5167026 >>5166490 What was that weird sexist fantasy novel he wrote where every woman on Earth was actually a witch?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 21 02:40:33 2014 No.5167120 >>5167026 You're probably talking about 'Conjure Wife'

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 21 02:53:28 2014 No.5167170 File: 1.16 MB, 1811x2762, BL8D SONG.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] This guy is a new author who not many have read, would definitely recommend this book. Wonderful prose compared to a lot of fantasy authors.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 21 02:53:56 2014 No.5167171 >>5164704 Fuck yeah I like the Death Gate Cycle. Who do you support, Sartans, Patryns, Mensch, or Dragon-snakes?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 21 02:55:29 2014 No.5167174 >>5165572 No, it's totally new and intended for younger audiences.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 21 03:15:40 2014 No.5167229 File: 154 KB, 499x404, voyage-to-arcturus.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] anybody ever read ?? one of my favorites

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 21 07:17:06 2014 No.5167737 >>5167229 heard of, still need to read

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 21 07:39:01 2014 No.5167773 >>5165572 yes

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 21 07:39:53 2014 No.5167775 >>5167170 Did you read tower lord?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 21 07:57:48 2014 No.5167820 >>5167773 no

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 21 07:59:07 2014 No.5167823 >>5167775 Reading it now, only about 4 chapters in.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 21 08:56:13 2014 No.5167937 File: 141 KB, 324x480, Fanucci_IlCantoDelSangue.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5167170 I found it yesterday for 8 euros in a bookshop here but the retarded italian cover really put me off, what so good about it above the prose?

Anonymous Mon Jul 21 09:05:40 2014 No.5167963

>>5167937

It's like if GRRM could write and had focus, it's got a wonderful world with rich lore and a cast of super interesting characters. I guess in the grand scheme of things it could be considered standard fantasy fare but it does everything so damn well.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 21 09:34:19 2014 No.5168047 >>5167963 It sounds interesting, i will give it a chance. Thanks for the rec man

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 21 09:39:41 2014 No.5168064 File: 372 KB, 977x1425, nights-of-villjamur-us-2 - Copia.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] What's your opinion on Nights of Villjamur?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 21 09:42:21 2014 No.5168073 >>5164057 You mean stuff that isn't Discworld? I'd say Good Omens and The Long Earth are both very good, but he wrote those two with other people Neil Gaiman for the first one and Stephen Baxter with the other.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 21 09:46:19 2014 No.5168081 >>5167229 I disliked that one very much. If you're not into gnosticism I don't see how it could do anything for you.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 21 10:10:11 2014 No.5168131 File: 14 KB, 215x346, kingsofmorning.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Anybody read this? Its basically a fantasy retelling of Alexander the Greats conquest of the Persian Empire

Anonymous Mon Jul 21 10:19:49 2014 No.5168141

>>5168131
Yeap, except only the first two books and not actually pic related. I've also read one of his standalones, the Seabeggars and Monarchies of God. Quality writer.

>>5168064
Honestly, I didn't really like it. The setting was interesting, but I thought the dialogue was stilted and most of the characters were tedious. I still bought the rest (don't know why), so I guess I'll have to give it another chance.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 21 10:33:51 2014 No.5168157 >>5168141 They told me that NoV seems influenced by China Mieville, i really love Mieville so i thinked to read Nights of Villjamur. but if it's not worth my time i think i'll avoid it

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 21 10:41:14 2014 No.5168166 >>5168157 To be fair, while I personally wouldn't recommend Newton, the people I know who have read him liked him a lot better than I did.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 21 11:38:19 2014 No.5168332 >>5167170 This one was pretty much on par with NotW for m, even though the cover is cringe-worthy as fuck and will probably scare all potential readers away in every store.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 21 11:56:19 2014 No.5168395 File: 1.01 MB, 1139x1708, emperorsbladespsd.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] So what does /lit/ think of the emperor's blades?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 21 12:32:57 2014 No.5168534 >>5167229 Pretty much the first patrish thing mentioned ITT.

Anonymous Mon Jul 21 13:03:44 2014 No.5168624

>>5168073

I've read Good Omens and while I liked some of it I just couldn't get into Gaiman's writing style (I feel somehow obligated to like Gaiman because I like /edgy/ and /darkshit/ but Gaiman just doesn't do it for me).

My question was mainly about the newer Discworld books. Have been meaning to read the stuff with Stephen Baxter though.

Anonymous Mon Jul 21 13:05:28 2014 No.5168628

Just picked up the book triple-written by Kate Elliot, Jennifer Roberson and Melanie Rawn about aristocratic families and magical arts. The Golden Key iirc. Anyone here read this? I think it might be worth looking at to sample all of those authors' works before I read anything else by them.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 21 13:10:23 2014 No.5168647 >>5168624 Discworld kind of went downhill somewhere in the middle of the series. The later books have an off-putting progressive moralizing tone to them. Although he still writes the odd home run, e.g., Monstrous Regiment and Going Postal.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 21 13:52:36 2014 No.5168787 >>5168647 >off-putting progressive moralizing tone to them Most of his books had a bit of that to an extent

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 21 14:24:17 2014 No.5168902 >>5167120 I'd been meaning to read this but it looks kind of cringey and bad

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 21 14:31:59 2014 No.5168931 Any one else appreciate the works of Lord Dunsany?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 21 14:34:40 2014 No.5168945 >>5168931 The King of Elfland's daughter had great prose and a terribad plot.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 21 14:39:01 2014 No.5168959 File: 45 KB, 300x495, image.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Are there any epic fantasy novels about black people?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 21 14:39:35 2014 No.5168965 >>5168959 The Black Company has a few black characters So does Malazan Book of the Fallen

Anonymous Mon Jul 21 14:43:48 2014 No.5168979

>>5168931
Yes. I actually own first editions of The Story of Mona Sheehy and The Curse of the Wise Woman.

But Dunsany was really a short story guy. You can get almost all of his fantasy-related short stories in the "fantasy masterworks" collection, and the rest are in the very small book Fifty-One Tales.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 21 14:44:33 2014 No.5168980 >>5168959 Lord of the Rings.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 21 14:46:49 2014 No.5168990 >>5168980 Except the only even implicitly black characters in LotR were the southrons, and they were minor mooks in the service of the bad guys

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 21 14:49:32 2014 No.5168997 This is going to make me sound like a /k/ nerd, but are there any good fantasy novels where the protagonist uses a spear as their primary weapon? I feel like spears are underappreciated in fantasy fiction. It's always swords and the occasional axe.

Anonymous Mon Jul 21 14:53:56 2014 No.5169015

>>5168959

"In a crib in the hood there lived a nigger. Not a stylish, cozy, well-appointed crib, filled with the non-rented furniture and unstolen electronics, nor yet a tidy, comfortable well-aired crib with paid-up utilities or unbroken windows: it was a nigger-crib, and that means squalor..."

Nope. the field is wide open....

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 21 14:58:24 2014 No.5169037 >>5169015 kek

Anonymous Mon Jul 21 15:06:38 2014 No.5169068

>>5168959
The world I'm working on right now has a country/culture of black people, a large portion of the story will take place there. But I'll probably never finish it nor will it likely be good.

Fantasy is usually very European, and that means whites. As the whitest man on Earth I don't really mind this, the 'equality' factor doesn't bother me. The variety factor, however does. I'd like to see more cultures in fantasy than just "Alternate Europe"

Anonymous Mon Jul 21 15:12:06 2014 No.5169091

>>5169068
It's kind of funny that would say this because Tolkien consciously conjured up a medieval European aesthetic in response to what he saw as the overwhelming predominance of the Greco-Roman epic aesthetic.

But yeah white people write fantasy about white people, surprise. Learn Swahili or something if it bothers you so much (or maybe it`s dumb to believe that niggers actually write books?)

w/e

In sum you are a dunderhead, and sound like you belong on plebbit.

Ta.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 21 15:18:02 2014 No.5169123 File: 30 KB, 255x413, Andrzej_Sapkowski_-_The_Last_Wish[1].jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] No discussion about the Witcher Saga? You disappoint me, /lit/

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 21 15:18:20 2014 No.5169125 >>5169091 What?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 21 15:20:49 2014 No.5169136 >>5169123 it's plebshit bro, don't read that crap. >>5169125 I'm telling you to fuck off and read a book you retard.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 21 15:22:47 2014 No.5169144 >>5169136 Are you fucking stoned?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 21 15:23:08 2014 No.5169145 >>5169136 What?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 21 15:24:04 2014 No.5169151 File: 57 KB, 500x500, 1403900741067.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5169144 >>5169145 You heard me.

Anonymous Mon Jul 21 15:24:17 2014 No.5169153

>>5169068
" When the Gray God came up from the Great Slow River, T'anak was only a tiny boy, playing in the dust behind the kraal with the short bones of a pig. He smelled the river-stink from the green slime slipping off the black backs of the fifty water buffalos that escorted the Gray God to the place of honor beneath the big banyan in the center of the thorn hedge. He saw the tracks, deep as the roots of an acacia tree, where the Gray God walked. He followed these to the place where the silent people stood looking upwards at the wise and old and sad face, the long trunk and the broken tusks, the deep scars. he saw the people bow and kiss the dust. Then the mild blue eyes of the gray god saw him, and extended a long arm, bound in iron and gold, and dropped at his feet the red hammer. T'anak does not remember more than that: indeed he barely remembers anything except in dreams, but he has heard the story many times, in songs and poems and seen it drawn upon the white sides of his tent in red letters. and he wears the hammer at his belt."

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 21 15:24:21 2014 No.5169154 >>5169144 Do I look stoned?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 21 15:24:48 2014 No.5169156 >>5166225 > The actual question I asked was: which three writers have had the most influence on you as a writer? I've read Wolfe's interviews. Two of them are Tolkien and Borges. About the third I'm not sure, but let's say Jack Vance.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 21 15:26:52 2014 No.5169167 >>5167229 >anybody ever read ?? Yes. Gnostic trash, to be honest.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 21 15:30:48 2014 No.5169187 >>5168931 Dunsany is one of the absolute best

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 21 15:32:07 2014 No.5169193 >>5169156 Wait, no, scratch Vance, the third would be Proust.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 21 15:52:52 2014 No.5169280 >>5169123 I'm currently reading the second book, it's a well written fantasy series, really underrated.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 21 16:06:59 2014 No.5169344 File: 10 KB, 200x341, Crown-of-Shadows.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5164038 >someone else has actually read Coldfire Best antihero in fantasy.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 21 16:09:00 2014 No.5169349 Any tips for writing Sci-fi or fantasy? I think I'm struggling to keep every character from being the "witty sarcastic asshole" to be honest.

Anonymous Mon Jul 21 16:09:25 2014 No.5169351
File: 128 KB, 1878x614, Muh New List.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>5168395
I enjoyed it, kind of.
Will read the sequel.

>>5169123
I usually suggest it

Also guys I'm up for suggestions for books based on my list(listfag here). I'm running low.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 21 16:10:38 2014 No.5169361 >>5169349 >struggling to keep every character from being the "witty sarcastic asshole" Reread The Lord of the Rings.

Anonymous Mon Jul 21 16:13:09 2014 No.5169364

>>5169349
As someone who read a lot of fantasy >>5169351 I hate when people use too many cliches so stay away from that.
Don't do any Deus Ex Machina or asspulls. If you have someone who is a murderous cunt, don't try to justify it.

Specify what tips you want.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 21 16:21:28 2014 No.5169384 >>5169151 Blacks are the real Eldar, not the "so-called" elves!

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 21 16:21:34 2014 No.5169386 I was under the impression that /lit/ hated any sort of genre fiction, but especially speculative fiction. What gives? Also does /lit/ like Weird West at all?

Anonymous Mon Jul 21 16:25:35 2014 No.5169393

>>5169361
I've been meaning to for some time now, just finishing American Psycho first.

>>5169364
Yeah I have a personal vendetta against Deus Ex Machina's ever since reading the Inheritance cycle when I was younger. It's a sci fi set in a post-apocalypse desert land, and the main theme I'm trying to go for is the gradual transformation of two characters from "Everyman" to "Uberman/Leader". I have most of it planned out and the writing's going alright so far, but the crux of this (first) story is their journey across this wasteland for revenge+find a new home/life. I aimed to make one quite chatty and vain and the other a bit more quiet, but Mr quiet gets a bit boring if he's not witty.

Anonymous Mon Jul 21 16:29:01 2014 No.5169399

>>5169364
I realise that was a bit waffle-y and not very specific, sorry.

How do I make the whole "revenge" arc interesting? Because "Grrr I'm so going to kill you" just seems quite...illogical. They'd be better off just living a new life in all honesty and forgetting about the mass murdering mystery men.

Anonymous Mon Jul 21 16:55:25 2014 No.5169450

>>5169393
>gradual transformation of two characters from "Everyman" to "Uberman/Leader"
Been done to death bro.

>story is their journey across this wasteland for revenge+find a new home/life. I aimed to make one quite chatty and vain and the other a bit more quiet, but Mr quiet gets a bit boring if he's not witty.

Look at The Riyria Chronicles by Michael J. Sullivan and The Riyria Revelations by Michael J. Sullivan.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 21 17:10:31 2014 No.5169501 >>5169450 Yeah I guess so, but I do quite like it. Surely that's better than a "Retrieve the super awesome artifact" storyline though, right? I'll think about it though dude, thanks. I'll also check out those books.

Anonymous Mon Jul 21 17:27:22 2014 No.5169579

I have an idea for a book about two men (in their 20's) living in the Inca Empire (before the spanish conquered it), working as hunters (they kill creatures of incan mythology). After some time doing it, the spanish begin their conquest (and bring along european "hunters").

Would that be interesting?

PD: As you can see, english is not my main language, I would write it in spanish.

Anonymous Mon Jul 21 17:39:50 2014 No.5169631

>>5169579
YES. Please write this. You could have the introduction of the metal plate armour and new weapons and tactics, but the lack of the spiritual side of the natives. It's a damn shame that it won't be in english. Good luck Span-anon, I hope you get it fleshed out and finished.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 21 17:42:56 2014 No.5169645 >>5168624 Ah I liked that book mostly because it reminded me of old Monty Python sketches, hell if I remember right, Gaiman made a few chartered accountant jokes.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 21 17:43:58 2014 No.5169649 >>5168965 But Mogaba is a villain

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 21 17:56:12 2014 No.5169699 >>5169631 What do you mean by lack of the spiritual side in the incas? They had gods, such as Wiracocha, the maker; Inti, the sun; Quilla, the moon; among others.

Anonymous Mon Jul 21 18:01:26 2014 No.5169720

Since a few people are asking for feedback on ideas?

A Weird West novel about a German necromancer/scientist who puts his exorcism business on hold to rescue his estranged mentor from a (seemingly) clockwork robot-producing industrialist.

Other characters include the necromancer's bodyguard/college thesis project, a floating cow skull adorned with machinery (his familiar), and a drifting Creole chef with some practical knowledge of Haitian voodoo.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 21 18:04:22 2014 No.5169734 >>5169699 Pretty sure he means that the Incas are spiritual and the new conquistador warriors aren't. You can then go on to show the contrast etc.

Anonymous Mon Jul 21 18:06:38 2014 No.5169743
File: 133 KB, 1878x614, Muh Leaders.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>5169501
I think the whole "everyday man turned leader" is kind of a cliche, it's been done so much.

SPOILER
Look at pic related for all the books that have the everyday joe/jane turn into some leader. The Arrows.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 21 18:09:05 2014 No.5169752 >>5169649 DON"T READ IT One eye dies and Croaker turns godmode

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 21 18:09:23 2014 No.5169753 >>5169386 This is obviously a containment thread for the few autists and fedora-wearing cringelords who actually read fantasy in public

Anonymous Mon Jul 21 18:10:42 2014 No.5169760

>>5169344

Damien Kilcannon Vryce was one of my favorite protagonists. Loved the whole cowboy-attitude thing he had going on and how it contrasted with the church as an organization.

Only thing I didn't like about that series was how disposable most of the female characters were.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 21 18:13:58 2014 No.5169774 >>5169720 That sounds like Anita Blakes meets Infernal Devices by Cassandra Clare(Necromancer and Clockwork), mix in a little Jane Yellowrock and Sabrina Kane(Creole and Voodoo) and the skull sounds like Bob from Dresden Files he just has a new vessel.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 21 18:14:09 2014 No.5169776 >>5169734 But the spanish were spiritual, they believed in Jesus, and tried to convert most if not all of the incas.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 21 18:14:11 2014 No.5169777 >>5169386 >Weird west I'm actually working on-and-off on writing a series of short stories with a fictional anachronistic "weird west" setting.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 21 18:16:30 2014 No.5169789 >>5169743 Hmm that's kinda disheartening. Maybe I should try and subvert it somehow, they're really shit leaders? Not a fan. Hmm. Thinking time for me I guess.

Anonymous Mon Jul 21 18:17:12 2014 No.5169792

>>5169386

Some of the genre-shaming on /lit/ is genuine elitism, and other times it's simply ironic trolling. The most unique thing about an anonymous imageboard as a format is how it obscures the post author's intentions, thus making for a wide range of possible reactions from other users. That is, simply put, part of why trolling or ironically affecting a controversial opinion through this format is so fun (and so commonplace at that).

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 21 18:17:49 2014 No.5169796 >>5169776 >Jesus >Giant feathered snake god One can be order and religion, the other can be wild and tribal.

Anonymous Mon Jul 21 18:21:29 2014 No.5169812

>>5169774
Bob is a snarky spiritual computer/lab assistant obsessed with titties, though, whereas my protagonist's familiar isn't too much smarter than the steer he was made from. He can't say anything other than "moo."

But yeah, I'm worried it's too much of a mishmash of ideas, in spite of Weird West as a genre being somewhat of a clusterfuck no matter how you look at it. I plan on having the bodyguard channel Baron Samedi at certain points, but I'm getting lost in planning and have thrown out what little prose I had (some 10000 words or so) as the planning got so disparate from it that it wasn't useful anymore.

Anonymous Mon Jul 21 18:22:05 2014 No.5169815

>>5169753
>in public
You cunts are the cringelords if you read books in public. It's like you are trying to draw attention to yourselves and show that you are better than others no wonder you have those "tfw reading on a bus [insert woman approaching]" threads.

If you enjoy reading do it. In a time of /tv/ and /a/nime, you think the persons interested in reading would be happy that others are actually doing it, instead of drinking themselves into a early grave/drug dependency/std etc etc. You cunts shit on people and mock them for their likes until they stop reading entirely and go play /v/ideogames or some shit.

Is that what you want? People to stop reading, so people will stop buying books, thus the industry slowly dries up, only leaving the "old" books which is what you cunts want everyone to read and nothing else.

Fuck off

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 21 18:22:43 2014 No.5169820 >>5169796 Feathered snake god? I think you are mixing different empires, but I get your point.

Anonymous Mon Jul 21 18:22:52 2014 No.5169823

>>5169796

>wild and tribal

This is one of the aspects I always found a little problematic and somewhat shameful about the cultural (and implicitly racial) politics of a lot of fantasy. The manner in which white Anglo-American authors often describe an essentialized "exotic" culture based on a fundamental misunderstanding and misinterpretation of another real-world culture or civilization. Granted, historical fiction and adventure writers are often guilty of this too, and it's arguably more problematic in their case as they are more directly distorting the image and perception of a foreign culture.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 21 18:24:24 2014 No.5169829 File: 188 KB, 624x451, 1391394280917.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5169823 >problematic

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 21 18:24:30 2014 No.5169830 >>5169760 >Only thing I didn't like about that series was how disposable most of the female characters were. Hi femanon, w-would you like to go out for some milkshake(fuck coffee) or something and discuss fantasy books?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 21 18:26:56 2014 No.5169842 >>5169820 My bad, I'm a bit of a pleb when it comes to the differences between Aztecs and Incans.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 21 18:28:16 2014 No.5169846 >>5169842 Do your research then. This shit's important.

Anonymous Mon Jul 21 18:29:12 2014 No.5169856
File: 111 KB, 1920x1200, 1335213135278.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

What are some books that go really overboard with powerlevels but keep it authentic and consider all the implications such powers pose for the world and for the personality of the person bearing the powers.

And: What are some books with a similiar atmosphere to Shadow of the colossus or Ico? Very mystical and empty atmosphere is what i'm looking for

Recommendations would be appreciated.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 21 18:29:18 2014 No.5169857 >>5169815 >only leaving the "old" books which is what you cunts want everyone to read and nothing else. /lit/ likes plenty of contemporary literary fiction as well

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 21 18:29:23 2014 No.5169858 >>5169829 You seem to have a problematic essentialist reading of that word.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 21 18:29:38 2014 No.5169862 >>5169823 The spanish will be the exotic in this book.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 21 18:30:20 2014 No.5169864 >>5169856 The Earthsea books. Any time someone decides to try to up their power levels or use magic without a good reason it fucks up the entire balance of nature.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 21 18:34:38 2014 No.5169882 >>5169846 I'm not the aspiring writer bro

Anonymous Mon Jul 21 18:34:43 2014 No.5169883

>>5169789
My advice bro is do what you want, then find a editor.

Get the story off your chest you can always clean up later. I've heard of some books that started one way and when they finished "editing" it resembled nothing to what it originally begun as.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 21 18:41:31 2014 No.5169911 ASOIAF Anyone read up on the Great Northern Conspiracy theory? If so, what are your thoughts? It's a great example of how good Martin is at foreshadowing, assuming it's true of course.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 21 18:47:00 2014 No.5169945 >>5169911 Red pill me niggah. I'm an ASOIAF theory-phile and I don't know what you're chatting. >inb4 Google Dude I am not opening a new tab.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 21 18:48:16 2014 No.5169951 >>5169945 There are a bunch of pages on tumblr and the asoiaf/westeros forums talking about this but they're so involved and assume so much prior knowledge of the theory I'm not sure where to start

Anonymous Mon Jul 21 18:49:40 2014 No.5169958

>>5169911

You know what my theory is?

That Martin goes online and reads the most popular fan theories specifically so that he can rewrite the books to NOT include them as a way to defy the most predictable expectations

My theory is also that that's why he takes so long for new books to come out

>OH SHIT SOMEONE ONLINE FIGURED OUT R+L=J, BETTER REWRITE THIS SHIT SO I CAN SURPRISE THEM INSTEAD

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 21 18:50:04 2014 No.5169959 >>5169951 duuuuuuuuude

Anonymous Mon Jul 21 18:50:44 2014 No.5169965
File: 132 KB, 1878x614, Muh Power levels.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>5169856
>What are some books that go really overboard with powerlevels but keep it authentic and consider all the implications such powers pose for the world and for the personality of the person bearing the powers.

Pic related the green markers(I'm too lazy to type out the names)

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 21 18:52:52 2014 No.5169976 >>5169951 >There are a bunch of pages on tumblr Dropped

Anonymous Mon Jul 21 18:54:17 2014 No.5169982

So I just started reading Titus Groan and I am thoroughly enjoying it. I guess my vocabulary isn't as decent as I thought it was because I have come across a pretty decent amount of words I wasn't familiar with. But other than that it is extremely enjoyable to read. No matter what is being described, it is just done in such a charming, captivating manner.

It is a nice breath of fresh air because I was recently trying to make myself read through a rough spot in Fall of Hyperion. Does anybody else hate Kassad and everything about and related to him as much as I do?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 21 18:56:02 2014 No.5169991 >>5169760 >>5169830 Jesus fucking Christ.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 21 18:59:01 2014 No.5170010 >>5169991 What? It's clear she is female from the "disposable female characters" so I asked her out.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 21 18:59:42 2014 No.5170014 >>5169958 Please explain bro, I don't feel like tumblering. Ever.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 21 19:01:16 2014 No.5170025 >>5170010 >It's clear she is female from the "disposable female characters" so I asked her out. That's a stupid fucking assumption

Anonymous Mon Jul 21 19:03:32 2014 No.5170042

>>5169945
Ok, here's the theory in short. This is ADWD spoiler material.

Remember how just before Robb got killed he was planning to legitimize Jon Snow and name in his heir in the event of his death? He had a document signed by many of his lords bannermen and had it sent very secretly.
As of now, nobody has mentioned the document showing up.

The theory is that almost all of the northern lords, both those allied with Stannis and those allied with Roose Bolton are planning to betray them and make Jon Snow their king.

There are many place you can go read up on it.
The main theory I think comes from this guy called Bran Vras, who I believe is somewhat autistic/cuckoo and has written thousands of pages on theories about the books. I've read some of them and although there's some good there's also a lot of stuff that I feel is pretty tinfoil tier.
The main guy who proposed these theories on the forum has ideas that seem to be closely tied to what this Bran Vras has written.
There's some guy who posted a pretty good summary of all the evidence with quotes and everything on his tumblr, and someone's made an epub out of it (around 60 pages).
It's got a few XDs in it, but information wise it's pretty good.

Some of the hints and foreshadowings seem way too deliberate for them to be mere coincidence.

Here's the links
Forum topic: http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/59217-the-northmen-inside-and-outside-winterfell-conspiration/
epub:
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B3Hk9dfMiV2AZWxwcG1fWHNyLTA/edit?usp=sharing

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 21 19:07:00 2014 No.5170050 >>5170042 Didn't Stannis offer him Winterfell anyway though? Maybe I'm imagining this.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 21 19:08:57 2014 No.5170060 >>5170042 >obsessively documenting a series to this extent to prove a fan theory This is a waste of time and life even compared to pissing away hours and days on 4chan

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 21 19:14:01 2014 No.5170083 >>5170025 She is a feminist therefore female, if it's a male feminist he is just a woman trapped inside a man's body and wants his boipussy pummeled.

Anonymous Mon Jul 21 19:14:04 2014 No.5170084

>>5170050
Yes, he did. Jon Snow is haunted by his bastardy. He very much wants to be a Stark. However, he's torn between that and trying to live up to his perceived father's honorability and dutifulness.
Jon has refused Stannis.
What's going to happen now though is, IMO, that since he's dead (stabbed by Bowen Marsh) he'll be burnt on a pyre and be re-born. Because, after all, he's Azor Ahai, the prince who was promised.

>>5170060
The Bran Vras stuff is very much like that. He has documented every single fucking thing.
The other stuff isn't that long, and it's a pretty interesting read.

Anonymous Mon Jul 21 19:55:17 2014 No.5170225

>>5170042
All of this, except the part about Bolton's lords being in on it, is so fucking obvious when reading the book that I don't understand how it even qualifies as a fan theory. Is the average ASoIaF-fan so far gone on the autism spectrum that it takes them months of research to be able to read between the lines like a normal person?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 21 20:10:24 2014 No.5170289 I'm about to read the first Malazan book, what should I expect?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 21 20:11:02 2014 No.5170292 >>5170289 Overly convoluted self-indulgent writing and audience confusion

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 21 20:11:26 2014 No.5170293 >>5170289 Something beautiful. Don't spend too much time trying to understand, just let it wash over you and immerse you in the world.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 21 20:14:24 2014 No.5170301 >>5170292 Does it get better after the first one? I heard it's the worst one in terms of writing and pacing.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 21 20:15:47 2014 No.5170308 >>5170289 D&D-type writing, honestly Dragonlance-tier except that Dragonlance understands what it is and doesn't take itself so seriously.

Anonymous Mon Jul 21 20:20:53 2014 No.5170331

>>5169760

>how disposable most of the female characters were

The fact that trilogy was written by a female is part of the reason I place no value in the whole Bechdel test thing. Friedman can write whatever the hell she wants, and Donaldson can also write 10 books about a rapist.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 21 20:22:29 2014 No.5170337 >>5170042 The Northern Conspiracy I consider more persuasive is that they plan to crown Rickon. I don't see why Manderly would send Davos after him when he just plans to bend the knee to Jon Snow.

Anonymous Mon Jul 21 20:29:24 2014 No.5170365

>>5170225
Honestly, I don't get your criticism. The theory is nothing but "Bolton's lords are in on it". And it is interesting to see the way they are going about exacting their vengeance (baking the Freys into a pie, for example) and how GRRM hints at it through small details.
Also I'm sure that there are some people who have re-read the books 300 times and carefully annotated everything, but I think most people who are looking into the theories are just posting them in forums where they're discussing the books.
Why are you so mad? Did GRRM diddle you as a kid or something?

Anonymous Mon Jul 21 20:34:24 2014 No.5170391

>>5170337
Yeah, the fact that Manderly knows about Rickon is the biggest thing going against the crowning Jon theory. But there are a few things that hint otherwise. Most notably, the only people who have been vocal about their loyalty to the King in the North are Wylla Manderly, and Lyanna Mormont. It seems weird that these characters who are expressing their support towards "the king" have the same names as Jon's mother and Jon's wet nurse. It could be just a coincidence. Or, it could be GRRM deliberately using those names to foreshadow that the king is to be Jon.

Anonymous Mon Jul 21 20:46:54 2014 No.5170440

>>5170365
Correct me if I'm wrong here, but those northern houses that remain are Manderly, Reed, Mormont, Karstark, and Umber, right?

The Reeds are just sitting in their swamp being loyal to Stark.
The remnants of House Mormont are on boats somewhere, trying to or already having delivered Robb's letter, and generally being loyal to Stark.
Wyman Manderly is in Winterfell, baking Freys into pies and being loyal to Stark.
Alys Karstark fled to Castle Black because her uncle, Someguy Karstark chose to be loyal to Bolton and she wanted none of that noise.
There was some shit going down between Crow's Feet(?) and Whorsebane Umber, and I can't recall if they were fighting each other or if there was a third Umber kicking around, but the gist is that the Umber-in-charge was some sort of asshole and he was also loyal to Bolton.
There was also some woman, an Yronwood or Hornfoot or something who was at Winterfell and was super angry with the Starks.

My point is that it's abundantly clear that none of the Northern lords who dislike Roose Bolton have any devotion to Stannis either more than as the means to an end, while those who are Team Bolton are pretty solidly in that camp and aren't conspiring to fuck him over any time soon.

I don't know, I just don't get it. I thought the plot was explicitly about this one thing happening, and suddenly it's a theory with its own catchy name and shit.

Anonymous Mon Jul 21 20:47:31 2014 No.5170442

>>5170391
That is an interesting coincidence, but I wouldn't be surprised if it just that. Lyanna's name makes sense: it's kinda like Karstark naming his son Eddard. And Wylla fits in to the Wy- naming scheme of the Manderlies.

But now that you mention it, it would be hilarious if the only reason Manderly wanted Rickon was to marry him to his granddaughter.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 21 20:54:41 2014 No.5170469 Why is Wyman Manderly the best fucking character in ASOIAF?

Anonymous Mon Jul 21 20:59:59 2014 No.5170484

>>5170440
You're right, but there's more lords (lesser ones, but still lords) and...

>while those who are Team Bolton are pretty solidly in that camp and aren't conspiring to fuck him over any time soon.

..the theory is that even those supposedly on Team Bolton are conspiring to fuck him over. The theory is that almost every single northen lord has been conspiring, they've shared the information they had. They all know Bran and Rickon are still alive, they know Jon was legitimized and named successor and they're all working on bringing both Bolton and Stannis down.
Obviously, the end result will pretty much be the same. As far as theories goes this isn't as big as many of the others. But if the clues that have been scattered across are deliberate and not just fans reading way too much into what GRRM writes it would be pretty cool, and it's pretty exciting IMO.

>>5170442
There are more coincidences, such as northern lords/lords that had been loyal to Robb talking shit about Jon Snow when they have no reason for it, and always in front of the enemies of House Stark (Lannisters, Stannis, Bolton).
There are also things such as some lords using the fact that Jon Snow is a bastard to talk shit about him, saying things like "Bastard blood", etc. when Martin previously mentioned that they had previously supported a bastard family member.
These are all very small details, and could be coincidences, or it could be that Martin really thinks his shit through.

Anonymous Mon Jul 21 21:13:00 2014 No.5170535

>>5170469
The fat lord who loves to eat and moves slowly with his plans? I can't imagine why GRRM would give him all the awesome material.
>>5170484
Yeah, I had forgotten about all that. It really struck me when I was reading it.

Of course, one way people have dealt with the Rickon vs. Jon thing is that Manderly is telling the truth-- he really does want Rickon to be his liege lord. But when the will passed through Howland Reed's territory, he recognized the significance of Jon's legitimization. A select few Northern lords plan to rally the North to place Jon on the Iron Throne.

(That also would explain why everyone's ignoring Bran, even though Wex saw him alive. Howland knows through his or his kid's greendreams that Bran will never return.)

>>	/lit/ I'm sorry for shitting u(...) Mon Jul 21 21:17:58 2014 No.5170553 >>5170535 >Howland That's an interesting possibility. Can't wait to find out more about all of that stuff. Hopefully TWoW will be out by the end of next year.

Anonymous Mon Jul 21 21:30:34 2014 No.5170603

>>5170553
Yeah, wasn't my idea obviously, but I like it. One piece of evidence I especially like was this part from the Greatjon:

>Renly Baratheon is nothing to me, nor Stannis neither. Why should they rule over me and mine, from some flowery seat in Highgarden or Dorne? What do they know of the Wall or the wolfswood or the barrows of the First Men? Even their gods are wrong. The Others take the Lannisters too, I’ve had a bellyful of them... Why shouldn’t we rule ourselves again? It was the dragons we married, and the dragons are all dead!”

Which a) implies the North would more readily recognize the rule of a Targaryen on the Iron Throne and b) implies they'd recognize a ruler that came from the North and worshipped their gods.

Anonymous Mon Jul 21 21:36:48 2014 No.5170629

>Read first Black Company book
Well this was ok kinda bland and vague
>Read second Black Company book
COOL LETS LEARN MORE ABOUT THESE TAKEN SUCH RICH DEEP CHARACTERS THAT COULD BE MADE
>all taken ded ded ded
wat

>Start reading 3rd Black Company book
>Can't get past page 4

Should I start WoT?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 21 21:37:47 2014 No.5170635 >>5170629 Yeah bro you sound like a gigantic pleb, WoT is probably right up your alley.

Anonymous Mon Jul 21 22:25:33 2014 No.5170826

I'm writing a fantasy novel and there is a twist/reveal i want to put in but i dont know when the best time to do it without it feeling forced/contrived/cheesy would be.

Background: land is ruled by a line of immortals who only get their immortality once they use magic for the first time. the only known royal right now is the king, who is in a coma due to injuries. for 400 years
Basically, main character is a theif working for a warcriminial general and his 'partner in crime' is a female, but shes immortal and is the kings brother, but only works with/for the warcriminal so that she can remain close/in the loop for anything that may happen in the country that could endager her brother(king)
ofcourse, for a while you dont know she is a royal or can use magic, and i have no idea when to reveal that or how. Ive dropped a few hints (vague hints of her past overlap in some ways with the kings history, even if the dates are obscured, for example)

thoughts?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 21 22:30:49 2014 No.5170840 >>5170826 That sounds fucking dumb. None of you retards seem to understand fantasy at all. Military historical novels with some names changed is not real fantasy. It's boring and plebeian.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 21 22:30:53 2014 No.5170841 >>5170826 Interesting premise. Can the magic be used for combat? The most dramatic reveal I can think of would be for her to use it in self-defense when defeat seems certain.

Anonymous Mon Jul 21 22:37:33 2014 No.5170860

>>5170840
fine. then explain real fantasy. military historical novels dont have magic or immortals. Just because it has some war content doesnt make it military historical.

>>5170841
It can be used for combat, but she avoids it as much as she can because when you use magic you get an 'aura' of radiating magic that other mages can see. if you go long enough without using it, the aura dissapears, and if she uses it and shows her aura then her cover is blown.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 21 22:43:57 2014 No.5170883 >>5170860 Some people think fantasy has to be a small band of heroes fighting against some great evil.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 21 22:45:45 2014 No.5170894 File: 485 KB, 1000x1000, trapbulge_[cc2aea5f823c27b89826b06e9e487c28].png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5170826 >but shes immortal and is the kings brother >she >the king's brother I like where this is going.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 21 22:47:31 2014 No.5170904 >>5170894 goddamnit, sister. This is what i get for going online at midnight.

Anonymous Mon Jul 21 22:51:43 2014 No.5170922

>>5170289
You will not understand everything. Just keep reading. It will be worth it. The second book is even better. It's an awesome series.

>>5170629
The first three books of the north were great.

I couldn't finish the fourth book. Lady without power is bland.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 21 22:52:46 2014 No.5170926 >>5170894 kek

Anonymous Mon Jul 21 22:58:30 2014 No.5170939

>>5170860
Well then that almost makes even more sense. She would only use magic it was literally life and death.

I can see a few interesting ways to make a verbal reveal, (she gets him to promise to do X for her brother, and then reveals who her brother actually is). But as they say, "show, don't tell." Her dramatically using magic is far more interesting and shocking then "Yer a wizard, Harry."

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 21 23:02:51 2014 No.5170951 >>5170894 You're not the only one

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 21 23:23:58 2014 No.5171030 Urban fantasy is something I'd like to get into literature-wise, considering shows and shit that I've watched. What urban fantasy is out there that isn't Artemis Fowl?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 21 23:24:50 2014 No.5171034 >>5171030 Are you a woman? If the answer is no, don't bother with urban fantasy.

Anonymous Mon Jul 21 23:26:59 2014 No.5171042

>>5171034
That's what I expected. I'm sure the genre is rife with shitty Twilight-tier novels.

That said, I'm also sure that there's gotta be something salvagable in all that. Are there no recs for urban fantasy at all? Should I just stick to the other side of the urban fantasy fence - magical realism?

Anonymous Mon Jul 21 23:31:28 2014 No.5171063

>>5170826
The
>land is ruled by a line of immortals who only get their immortality once they use magic for the first time
Sounds like the Black Jewels by Anne Bishop, mixed with some other book that I can't recall at the moment but believe me, "coming into your full power until[insert event here]" is used a lot.

It also vaguely sounds like this >>5168395 with the "ruled by an immortal line" ask another anon who read the book and help them tell you.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 21 23:31:55 2014 No.5171066 >>5171042 The problem is, since the genre is so infested with female authors writing Twilight knock-offs, any attempt at something quality from a male author or anything that doesn't have a "strong female protagonist" is shot down right away.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 21 23:33:33 2014 No.5171070 >>5171066 What about things from before Twilight? There's gotta be something. Anything. I've been caught up in Ugly Americans and that comic Fable way too much recently. I need to read some well written Urban Fantasy.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 21 23:36:33 2014 No.5171085 >>5171030 Dresden Files Felix Castor Joe Pitt Casebooks Let The Right One in Enjoy

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 21 23:36:43 2014 No.5171087 >>5171070 I never liked it when my fantasy intersected with the real world, so I couldn't really help you. All I know is the genre has sunk harder than the titanic as of recent.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 21 23:43:45 2014 No.5171113 >>5171030 Try Rivers of London by Ben Aaronovich. I'm no expert on Urban Fantasy, but that book was tight as fuck, and really quite funny.

Anonymous Mon Jul 21 23:45:01 2014 No.5171118

>>5171085
I've read Let the Right One In. Gotta say, I thought it was actually very well written. A favorite of mine.

I'll look into the other ones, but I've heard the Dresden Files are hit and miss.

What about Gaiman - is he Urban Fantasy? I'm sure Good Omens and Ananasi Boys would count.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 21 23:46:09 2014 No.5171120 >>5164729 I like Clark Ashton Smith more than Lovecraft for the most part. Derleth is a waste of time, though.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 21 23:59:49 2014 No.5171175 >>5167775 Just finished a Tower Lord. Pretty good.

Anonymous Tue Jul 22 00:01:01 2014 No.5171179
File: 139 KB, 1878x614, for you.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>5171070
>>5171085
I'll add to my post and give you every single piece of Urban Fantasy in my list.
You can go read the blurbs on Goodreads to see if you want to read them some started out good then turn to shit you were warned.

Some are pure Urban fantasy, some are Urban Fantasy post apocalypse what do you call does dystopia? Arrows

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 22 00:06:43 2014 No.5171207 >>5171179 Thanks for the list, man. I'll check them out.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 22 00:31:06 2014 No.5171332 >>5171179 >Maximum Ride toplel

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 22 00:40:57 2014 No.5171376 >>5171332 As I said >I'll add to my post and give you every single piece of Urban Fantasy in my list. >some started out good then turn to shit you were warned. l2read

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 22 00:46:25 2014 No.5171387 >>5171376 Not the guy you posted the pic for - before I even read your post I opened the picture and saw it. My bad.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 22 01:02:10 2014 No.5171435 >>5171030 Dresden Files

Anonymous Tue Jul 22 01:32:13 2014 No.5171528

>>5164034

Has anyone read any of the books from the series "The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant"? In my opinion, it is a very interesting triple-trilogy (the last "trilogy" actually being a tetrology) being written from 1974-2013.

It is my favorite fantasy series! I would highly recommend. It is relatively unheard of, from my experience.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 22 01:46:04 2014 No.5171571 No love for David Eddings, Tad Williams, or Barbara Hambly? Martha Wells? Oh well... at least someone mentioned Jonathan Strange

Anonymous Tue Jul 22 02:36:28 2014 No.5171709

I'm in the mood for some hard magic, but I'm not sure how to look for it.

Can anybody recommend something good with a well defined magic system? Something like what Lawrence Watt-Evans (Legends of Ethshar) writes. It would be great if the protagonist is also a magic user.

Too much fantasy I read lately keeps magic all mysterious and all-powerful and there to fuck with the protagonist and it has gotten boring.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 22 02:43:23 2014 No.5171726 >>5171571 >Tad Williams His Memory, Sorrow and Thorn and Otherland books were some of my favorite as a teen He is a bit clumsy with hamfisted liberal commentary in retrospect but good shit nonetheless

Anonymous Tue Jul 22 02:44:59 2014 No.5171736

>>5171030

OKAY.

If you want Urban Fantasy that isn't romance, the author for you is Caitlin R. Kiernan. Also look into Charles de Lint and Neil Gaiman.

If you want the cheesy fan fiction experience, the author for you is Poppy Z. Brite, whose books are like a much more beautifully written of the infamous Harry Potter fanfic "My Immortal."

Anonymous Tue Jul 22 02:57:23 2014 No.5171764

>>5171528
Yes. The first two chronicles are excellent and some of my favourite fantasy ever, and Donaldson is one of my favourite writers (I think I've read everything by him except the mysteries). The last chronicles I was sorely disappointed in. And while you don't see TC mentioned that much anymore, they were bestsellers in their time.

>>5171571
I still have very fond memories of the Belgariad and Elenium/Elenia(?). And Williams's MST is excellent even if it has glacial pacing.

Anonymous Tue Jul 22 03:01:35 2014 No.5171770

>>5171764

I thought Thomas Covenant was the cringiest bullshit I'd ever read. The main character was alternately an idiot, an asshole and a monster (surprisingly an uninteresting one, and I usually LIKE evil/morally ambiguous protagonists) and the dialogue read like it could have come from a rough draft script for Planet of the Apes

Anonymous Tue Jul 22 03:06:23 2014 No.5171779

>>5171726
>His Memory, Sorrow and Thorn and Otherland books were some of my favorite as a teen
>He is a bit clumsy with hamfisted liberal commentary in retrospect but good shit nonetheless

I too loved the series as a teenager... but I have absolutely no recollection of liberal commentary. What is it like? I have trouble identifying 'liberal' notions because there is no direct equivalent to US political positions where I'm from.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 22 03:12:34 2014 No.5171797 >>5171770 Psychologically damaged protagonists is Donaldson's MO. TC has one (obviously) and another later on, Mordant's Need has one, the Gap Cycle has two... But usually it makes the end all the more sweeter.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 22 03:48:58 2014 No.5171878 File: 236 KB, 406x700, worm ouroboros.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] hey guys, has anyone here read this book? They keep comparing it to Tolkein and I tried reading it once and I couldnt finish it

Anonymous Tue Jul 22 04:01:35 2014 No.5171911

>>5171878

Tolkien can be compared to Eddison, but not the other way round. The real descendant of Worm Ouroboros is probably Song of Ice and Fire -- though I'd be pretty surprised if Martin has ever read it. The kind of late-19th and early-20th century fantasy that set Tolkien's imagination down the path that led to Middle-earth ranges from the bizarrely rudimentary (Lindsay) to the rather eloquent (Dunsany) to the the unreadably purple (Eddison, Morris). I do think it captures the tone it sets out to capture, but in a way that someone who has been raised on post-Tolkien fantasy will find pretty difficult to read, let alone relate to: it is easy for a modern reader to grasp what sort of vibe the the story is going for and, having seen a hundred other authors go for the same vibe, then become very bored with all the flowery polite conversations and endless descriptions of Lord Whoever's raiment. It's like what people who haven't read LotR think LotR is like basically. But it was one of the first books to do what it did and I think it's far more respectable and interesting read than most of the fantasy that has been written since. It's not a high bar to clear admittedly but it's a classic imo

Anonymous Tue Jul 22 04:23:57 2014 No.5171990

>>5168081
>>5169167

I too love to parrot Harold Bloom's retarded opinions. Really though, I appreciate him for introducing the book to a wider audience since basically nobody else since Tolkien & Lewis has recommended it and it's great, but the book isn't about "Gnosticism" in the sense of Bloom's gay occultist Valentinianism/qabbalah bullshit, at fucking all. Lindsay was a Presbyterian, for god's sake, and the reasonable reading of his book is from the point of view of Calvinism. The book is often read, after Bloom, to portray a gnostic worldview, with Crystalman/Shaping as a demiurge and Surtur as a monad, but what it really is is a reaction to George MacDonald, it takes his incredibly hardcore "fuck yeah, bring on the torment, let's destroy our evil individuality and become god" Calvinist worldview. I seriously doubt that Lindsay was consciously channeling Gnostic views, it's more like Calvinism occasionally comes to similar points of view to what we consider Gnosticism, the hatred of the material world and the contempt for human will and willingness to embrace a destiny of suffering in the service of some remote and incomprehensible God.

Anonymous Tue Jul 22 04:24:32 2014 No.5171991
File: 622 KB, 1024x1544, prism.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

started reading the black prism by brent weeks recently, not bad and the magic system in it is interesting.

Has anyone else here read this + the sequel, and is the sequel worth getting? on a budget so i cant justify getting the second book if its not as good.

Anonymous Tue Jul 22 04:41:43 2014 No.5172050
File: 58 KB, 501x550, ibra please stop.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>5171991

>magic system

More than anything else, when I read these words, I know it's time to put a book down, that it has totally lost all sense of what fantasy is other than fluff, supplemental jerk-off material for games.

Anonymous Tue Jul 22 04:50:40 2014 No.5172083
File: 93 KB, 500x750, novalis.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>5172050
>In einem echten Märchen muss alles wunderbar, geheimnissvoll und zusammenhängend sein; alles belebt, jeder auf eine andere Art. Die ganze Natur muss wunderlich mit der ganzen Geisterwelt gemischt sein; hier tritt die Zeit der Anarchie, der Gesetzlosigkeit, Freiheit, der Naturstand der Natur, die Zeit von der Welt ein . . . Die Welt des Märchens ist die, der Welt der Wahrheit durchaus entgegengesetzte, und eben darum ihr so durchaus ähnlich, wie das Chaos der vollendeten Schöpfung ähnlich ist.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 22 04:53:26 2014 No.5172093 >>5172050 because magic in every series has to be simply point, say a few words, and stuff explodes... or has absolutely no coherency or structure. retard.

Anonymous Tue Jul 22 04:57:59 2014 No.5172105

>>5172093

No, that sort of parlor-trick bullshit is exactly the kind of dumb garbage that is developed needlessly to autistic levels by post-D&D tards like Sanderson, who have damaged their faculty of imagination to the point where they can't write about magic as magic, but only about magic as an endless succession of dreary, clumsy superpowers in a can.

Anonymous Tue Jul 22 05:09:44 2014 No.5172138

>>5171118
>Dresden Files are hit and miss

It's true that some books are better than others, and it can be cheesy as all hell, but it's got an inborn charm to it and when it's good it's damn good. I just marathoned the series and I definitely recommend it.

Anonymous Tue Jul 22 05:11:23 2014 No.5172142

>>5172105
Every fantasy writer worth his salt should have an idea of how magic works in his setting, otherwise he's just pulling it out of his ass and it contributes nothing to verisimilitude.

He also shouldn't spend long passages illustrating those rules to his audience, though, because that's just shit writing and takes away the mystery of it.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 22 05:38:27 2014 No.5172210 >>5171571 Man, David Eddings is great. I used to read and re-read the Belgariad when I was a kid. Good stuff.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 22 07:28:43 2014 No.5172379 Is literotica.com the best site for erotic literature? It might be a bit off topic (though it's obviously "fantasy") but I don't like creating threads for single questions.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 22 07:37:12 2014 No.5172398 Can you give examples of fantasy works that read like "serious" literature? (as opposed to "genre" literature)

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 22 07:42:34 2014 No.5172405 >>5172398 Titus Groan reads like Dickens. "Serious" enough for your liking?

Anonymous Tue Jul 22 07:47:42 2014 No.5172417

>>5172405
I was thinking of something more like 19th century Russian stuff like Tolstoy and Dostoevsky. (which I have been getting into recently)
I was wondering if there's something like that, but set in a fantasy world.

But I'll check that out. Thanks!

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 22 07:51:29 2014 No.5172426 >>5172417 Dostoevsky is 'genre literature', you moron.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 22 07:53:29 2014 No.5172433 >>5172426 ...eh? It certainly doesn't feel like it

Anonymous Tue Jul 22 07:54:55 2014 No.5172437

>>5172398
Mervyn Peake and Angela Carter if you want something different and interesting. Not for everyone mind, Carter gets her man hate on in a major way and Peake has the longest passages for the most inconsequential things.

Alternatively you could read Robert E Howard and convince yourself that it wasn't pulpy action with homoerotic descriptions of the lead character like everyone else has.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 22 08:01:19 2014 No.5172445 >>5172398 Gargantua and Pantagruel, The Well at World's End, Orlando Furioso, anything in Borges Book of Fantasy, Ghost in the House of Love, or however it's translated in english

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 22 08:20:11 2014 No.5172478 >>5172105 I read Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell for a book club A couple people said that they disliked that the magic system of the book was so poorly handled I asked to be excused, got my pistol from the glove compartment, and murdered them all

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 22 08:43:42 2014 No.5172516 >>5171528 This book is shit and no one should touch it, listfag here >>5171179I read the first book and wanted to cut someone.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 22 08:47:56 2014 No.5172523 >>5171709 Not too sure if you are honest or being sarcastic but try Brandon Sanderson and Jim Butcher.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 22 08:49:05 2014 No.5172528 I'm a couple of chapters away from finishing Little, Big by John Crowley. It's such a beautiful book. I don't reread often, but this one will be reread a few times I think.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 22 08:51:12 2014 No.5172532 >>5172528 Second half of that book underwhelmed imo. I really like the setup at the beginning but it doesn't do itself any favors by plowing onward so far. But it's still very good read.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 22 09:13:21 2014 No.5172566 >>5172433 >It certainly doesn't feel like it Like I said: you're a moron.

Anonymous Tue Jul 22 09:25:12 2014 No.5172586

>>5172142
If you've got a fucking system and rulebook for your "magic" then you're doing it wrong. Almost every single "fantasist" since Tolkien has done it horribly wrong and produced nothing of value. In fact pretty much the worst hack pre-Tolkien wrote better fantasy than the best-sellers of today.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 22 09:27:44 2014 No.5172595 >>5172445 >Gargantua and Pantagruel Not fantasy. >Orlando Furioso Not fantasy. Jesus fucking Christ you are a retard.

Anonymous Tue Jul 22 09:35:04 2014 No.5172623

>>5170440
>There was also some woman, an Yronwood or Hornfoot or something who was at Winterfell and was super angry with the Starks.

Ironwood is a Dornish house, the most powerful after the Martells. By Hornfoot you probably mean Hornwood. They're from the North. And they must be part of the plot. Their lord, and his son and heir, died fighting for Robb. His wife, Lady Donella, was the heir and there were talks among northmen to marry her again, but Ramsay captured her, forced to marry him, and killed her.

The woman you're talking about is Lady Dustin from Barrowtown, born in the Ryswell family. She's angry with the Starks because his husband, the Lord of Barrowtown, died fighting for them in Robert's Rebellion, and she used to fuck Brandon Stark, who left her to marry Catelyn Tully, something that didn't happen after all...

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 22 09:40:07 2014 No.5172637 >>5172586 >sips wine >tips fedora >takes autism meds

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 22 09:45:06 2014 No.5172647 >>5172637 >tips R. A. Salvatore novel

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 22 09:51:22 2014 No.5172663 >>5172637 From my experience with fantasy fanbases, you're much more likely to find fedoras being tipped at a Sanderson or Rothfuss signing than you are bretty much anywhere else.

Anonymous Tue Jul 22 10:03:18 2014 No.5172689
File: 160 KB, 640x648, Orlando_Furioso_20.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>5172595
huh? Orlando Furioso is one of the classics of fantasy, and Gargantua and Pantagruel is one of the first book to overtly incorporate fantastic elements into satire.

I cannot believe anyone would consider Orlando anything BUT fantasy. Honestly, what other genre does it even fit? pic related:

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 22 10:05:29 2014 No.5172692 >>5172689 Orlando Furioso is medieval epic poetry you retard. It fits into the genre of epic. It is not "one of the classics of fantasy" and neither is Gargantua and Pantagruel.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 22 10:14:11 2014 No.5172698 >>5171990 Well good for you for being able to enjoy a sci-fi book that has lots of religious allegory but shallow characterization, no plot, and poor writing. I don't have standards that low, so for me the book was terrible.

Anonymous Tue Jul 22 10:14:46 2014 No.5172699

>>5172692
When I teach fantasy in literature I start with the Iliad, then move on to Beowulf, then Orlando, then the uses of the fantastic in satirical works, such as Swift, Rabelais and Cyrano, We don't even get to Dunsany until after midterm. Try to get past the idea that "epic" is a genre: it's more like "Romance" or "Novel" or "Edda" or"Psalm" or "Parable"it speaks more to the conventions of form than of content. I doubt any scholar of folklore would exclude say, the Kalevala from fantasy, though that's about as epic as it gets.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 22 10:17:59 2014 No.5172702 >>5172699 Please shut your fucking mouth already. >hurr Homer was a fantasy writer durr Jesus Christ piss off.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 22 10:27:58 2014 No.5172721 >>5172702 Wait, so you seriously think the Homer wrote realist fiction? Piss off, you mongoloid.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 22 10:32:29 2014 No.5172730 File: 40 KB, 406x542, elric.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] What does /lit/ think about the Elric Saga?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 22 10:32:59 2014 No.5172732 >>5172721 >hurr everything that isn't a realist novel is fantasy durr Dumbass. Is the class you "teach" at Bumfuck Nowhere Technical College?

Anonymous Tue Jul 22 10:35:41 2014 No.5172735

>>5172702
See, what you're doing here is limiting your definition too much. Fantasy is just literature that incorporates fantastic elements. These might be as characters and races, such as the gods in the Iliad, talking animals as in Pinocchio settings such as Vanity Fair in Bunyan, or abilities and artifacts such as those in the Arabian Nights.

If you really need to limit the discussion for some reason, Why not simply say "twentieth century fantasy" or " magic realism" or even "books i found in the fantasy section at Barnes & Noble"? You still might get stuck with Cabell and Borges and Thorne Smith, but you won't be stuck trying to squeeze out Grendel on a technicality. It makes you look ridiculous. and more centripetal and pedantic than me, which is saying something.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 22 10:37:29 2014 No.5172740 >>5172730 It's great, tbh Moorcock and other Howard descendants are the only decent strain of fantasy post-Tolkien.

Anonymous Tue Jul 22 10:40:34 2014 No.5172747

>>5172735
>Fantasy is just literature that incorporates fantastic elements.

No it's not. No-one would agree with this definition. Fantastic elements != fantasy genre. It's debatable whether the gods in the Iliad even qualify as "fantastic elements." You might just as well try to appropriate Homer and the Anglo-Saxon poets for Romantic literature. It makes no sense and is intellectually disingenuous at best.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 22 10:48:22 2014 No.5172762 >>5172740 >not appreciating Post-Peake fantasy like Raold Dahl and J.K. Rowling

Anonymous Tue Jul 22 10:58:04 2014 No.5172777

>>5172747
>No it's not.
Yes it is.
>No-one would agree with this definition.
It's the only definition accepted both by academics and by writers, fuckface.
>to appropriate
Piss off back to tumblr and don't come back here until you get a real job. Buh-bye.

Anonymous Tue Jul 22 11:00:35 2014 No.5172783

>>5172747
No, Romantic literature has a specific time period. Like Baroque, or fin de siecle, or Edwardian or (in the original sense) Gothic.

and the debate over whether there are fantastic elements in the Iliad depends upon a codicil dealing with sacred and national literature, which would also exclude the Kalevala and the Elder Edda: it's that people at the time might have believed they were hearing honest history instead of fictive allegory.

What we seem to be dealing with is the controversy of centripetal versus centrifugal systematics: "splitters" versus "lumpers" An exteme Lumper might include the Bible, or even "Look Homeward, Angel" since it mentions a ghost. An extreme splitter on the other hand might exclude the Lord of the Rings as a reworking of folklore, the Passionate Witch as a sex comedy, or a lot of the Conan stories as historical fiction. It's probably best to gratify both sides by eliminating the continuum concept, where each tries to pull the needle in his direction, and replace it with a cladistic structure, where you start with the broadest definition possible, and then add subcategories in a dendritic progression. that way it's easy to discuss "branches" of fantastic literature and not get into quibbling over whether Peter Pan is more of a fantasy than Alice in Wonderland.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 22 11:02:03 2014 No.5172790 >>5172730 Great ideas and setting(s), but incredibly rambling, episodic and disjointed story

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 22 11:22:15 2014 No.5172829 File: 582 KB, 1600x1200, John_Carter_Quad-_V2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Plebe here. I recently watched John Carter and I absolutely loved it. What are the books like? I never got the feeling that it was sci fi so I'm asking here.

Anonymous Tue Jul 22 11:31:41 2014 No.5172853

>>5172829
Read the Princess of Mars, which is what the movie is based on. I never saw the movie or read the novel, so I can't suggest you anything.

Tell me in a nutshell what you liked about it and maybe I can give you a few recs.

I know he was transported to another world/planet is that what you want space opera? Because I haven't read much scifi.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 22 11:32:35 2014 No.5172857 >>5172829 John Carter is like John Carter. Edgar Rice Burroughs.

Anonymous Tue Jul 22 11:37:44 2014 No.5172867

>>5172829
Pulp Science Fiction hadn't completely divorced from the conventions of adventure fiction at the time Burroughs wrote the Mars novels. Twenty years later his stuff would have been considered fantasy, (and with his popularity would probably have been in the slicks instead of the pulps with Bradbury and Jackson.)

I'd treat Burroughs like i would Star Wars: as science fantasy rather than science fiction.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 22 11:38:12 2014 No.5172871 >>5172853 Is there a single good space opera novel? Something like LOGH.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 22 11:40:59 2014 No.5172878 >>5172871 What is Dune?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 22 11:42:05 2014 No.5172881 >>5172878 Dune kind of sucked. The first book was OK I guess.

Anonymous Tue Jul 22 11:43:56 2014 No.5172886

>>5172853
I liked the character arcs, the cultures, the names, I also liked that it was somewhat complex story but I heard the books were fairly straightforward. I even liked the romance.
I got sad right after finishing watching the film because it was ridiculously expensive and a flop so it'll never get a sequel and I was wondering if the books might satisfy that appetite.

>space opera
Not really no. I did like that he was from Earth and everything was unknown to him.

>>5172857
I get that kek.

>>5172867
I did get that 80s/Star Wars vibe from it. Would you recommend the books?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 22 11:44:52 2014 No.5172889 >>5171736 I'll totally look into those authors (although I knew Gaiman already). But about Poppy Z. Brite - it's actually like "My Immortal"? Jesus christ.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 22 11:45:51 2014 No.5172891 >>5172886 I would recommend the first three at least, and the Pellucidar books. you can skip Carson of Venus.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 22 11:52:55 2014 No.5172908 >>5172891 Thanks, I appreciate it!

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 22 11:56:32 2014 No.5172921 Oh, hi autist containment thread. I just wanted to let you know that you're almost at the bump limit and remind you to create a new thread soon. Keep up the good work! -/lit/

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 22 12:05:54 2014 No.5172946 >>5172921 >>5172945 ALL RIGHT EVERYBODY MIGRATE ON IN HERE

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 22 12:11:29 2014 No.5172962 >>5164049 Beta male with unknown parentage gets thrown into situation where he triumphs, saves the world, and gets the girl?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 22 12:24:58 2014 No.5173014 >>5169911 >Great Northern Conspiracy I don't buy it. The Northerners are too devasted and scattered to be able to pull this stunt IMO. I think most plausible theories are Howland Reed / High Septon and Sansa / Aegon. Also R + L = J

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/lit/ - Literature