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/lit/ - Literature

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5138093 No.5138093 [Reply] [Original]

Is YA killing literature?

>> No.5138100

>>5138093
There's always been plenty of shitty popular writing, nothing new.

>> No.5138105

>>5138093
>implying it wasn't already dead

>> No.5138117

>>5138093
Harry Potter introduced countless people to the concept of reading
I see no reason why TFioS/The Hunger Games/Divergence can't do the same
If adults are exclusively reading it I think it could be harmful but that's sort of a different conversation

>> No.5138120

Vast portions no, but like all things im sure there are outliers is the genre.

>> No.5138130
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5138130

>>5138093
>People over the age of 14 actually read fiction and fantasy books

>> No.5138131

>>5138117
>Harry Potter introduced countless people to the concept of reading

yeah but many of them never progress to Proper Literature. fucking plebs

>> No.5138134

If YA didn't exist, the people who normally read YA wouldn't read patrician novels. They'd just read nothing.

YA actually helps literature by drawing young people into reading. Many of those young people will turn into quality readers and possibly authors over time.

>> No.5138152

Apparently, in the Norwegian version of TFioS, the title translates to "Fuck Destiny." I like that better.

>>5138134
This.

>> No.5138169
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5138169

>>5138093
i think there is a problem where writers nowadays just write really sad things. They know if they just make a lot of bad stuff happen to the protagonist then people will read it. Its especially troubling in screenwriting. Take a look at that movie, Precious

>> No.5138180

I never understood why people think bad books/music/whatever can "kill" a genre or medium. It's not a rotten apple. Good books are not going to magically vanish because shit ones exist. Complaining about it is as stupid as trying to argue over which foods you like - you cannot alter personal taste by winning an argument.

>> No.5138186

i haven't read a book for pleasure since before high school. i just picked up catch-22. was this a bad decision? what's good starter literature...i'm not an idiot but my attention span and reading skills need to brushed up.

>> No.5138187

>>5138134
>If YA didn't exist, the people who normally read YA wouldn't read patrician novels. They'd just read nothing.

Wrong, i starting reading whit the Greeks.

>> No.5138232

>>5138186
> Catch-22

Bretty good! /lit/ approved.

>> No.5138241

>>5138232
yes but is it a managable read for me? got through two chapters and the writing style seems schizophrenic as fuck...i'm enjoying it but i doubt how much i'm taking from it.

>> No.5138255

>>5138241
>the writing style seems schizophrenic as fuck

wat.

>> No.5138263

>>5138093

is pop killing art?

>> No.5138275

>>5138093
"Killing [insert media here]" is just a die hard buzz phrase. No, nothing is killing literature.

>> No.5138278

>>5138255
really? not at all? fuck, i guess i'm the schizo. what are (relatively) easy reads that aren't dr seuss?

only book that i know i love is enders game.

>> No.5138279

>>5138130
Strictly biographies and treatises for you huh?

>> No.5138281

>>5138278
mmm... Lovecraft? A confederacy of dunces? dont know, what you want to read?

>> No.5138299

>>5138187
>not learning Linear A from birth and reading the Greek's precursors in search of their inspiration

holy shit what a garbage human being.

>> No.5138300

>>5138281
i dont really know. for movies i like dramas mostly, comedy, action. i want things that craft a setting or character i can lose myself in and forget about the real world while i'm reading. these are the things i look for in movies at least. too many things happening at once tend to confuse me. i have a shit attention span and poor memory for many characters.

>> No.5138307

>>5138241
schizophrenic isn't an adjective you use to describe writing lol it's a medical diagnosis, christ.

>> No.5138323
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5138323

>>5138117

The problem with your logic is that you're drawing in people who like escapism, not aesthetic prose or deep thematics or even well-developed plot, into reading. Thus the original demographic of people that like those things become a niche audience, and eventually become mostly (or totally) ignored. It's insane that I only hear this about books, if you apply it to any other art form it's batshit insane.

>Hey, candy crush got a generation of wimmin into playing video games!
>Yeah, so they could bitch and whine about unrealistic portrayals of wimmin in video games and ruin it for everybody else

Luckily literary authors have grants, awards and shit like that to prevent pandering from getting in the way of good writing, but why the fuck would you want to chance it? Can you imagine Anita Sarkeesian explaining why DFW's portrayal of Joelle Van Dyne as "problematic"? Or The Dongler getting mad about Pynchon making a dong joke?

There's absolutely nothing wrong with an art form staying confined to a small population of enthusiastic readers, this consumerist cult of Economies of Scale is the fucking death knell of art.

>> No.5138335

>>5138323
why are you getting pissed about video game feminism on a board about literature

>> No.5138366
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5138366

>>5138279
Oh my God, I don't think I can find a single book in my room that's not either a biography, a historical or scientific text, or a political treatise of some sort.

It's gotten out of control.

>> No.5138369

YA, it is.

>> No.5138371

>>5138169
>i think there is a problem where writers nowadays just write really sad things.
>nowadays
As opposed to WHEN? Ever?

>> No.5138385

>>5138100
this guy is right

>> No.5138395

>>5138323
>ruin it for everybody else
you cannot even be serious

>> No.5138470

What bothers me is that YA writing seems to fulfill certain idea about what writing should be. 'Your writing should be in clear, simple, plain English. Anyone should be able to understand it. Life is short; don't waste my time '

Well, YA do that better than most books. Content-wise, they mostly copy what's popular in the genre at the moment, but they reach people. Does 'literary' literature still reach people?

>> No.5138513

>>5138134
The problem is most people who get into YA don't progress past YA. Especially nowadays where 20-somethings will proudly proclaim they love City of fucking Bones and Twilight and that garbage. Just because they're reading doesn't make it good, reading itself as an activity isn't inherently good.

>> No.5138531

>>5138470
'Literary' literature could reach people if there weren't such a popular anti-intellectual sentiment these days. It's like if a book TRIES to be intelligent and not treat the reader like they have a fifth grade reading level then it's being stodgy and pretentious.

>> No.5138535

>>5138093
Collective permissiveness of the degradation of standards is what's killing the West.

There are many parallels that can be drawn from Rome's decadence and our own.

>> No.5138540

>>5138531
>'Literary' literature could reach people if there weren't such a popular anti-intellectual sentiment these days.

This.

>> No.5138599

>>5138300

A Song of Ice and Fire

You'll dig it.

>> No.5138611

>>5138323

this seems reasonable. good post bro

>> No.5138662

>tfw you have never been a young adult
>tfw you never had a phase of reading quality books


What's it like being a Young adult?

>> No.5138667

>>5138323
>Anita Sarkeesian

Thanks for reminding me that this bitch still exists, I needed an excuse to kill myself.

>> No.5138672

>>5138662
You act like a huge nigger for a few years and maybe finger a couple of skanks

>> No.5138678

>>5138093
>is literature killing literature?
No.

>> No.5138684

>>5138531
>anti intellectual sentiment
This is a fantasy for 20-somethings who believe that browsing wikipedia and reddit will make you smarter. "anti intellectual sentiment" is sort of a left-wing boogie man.

>> No.5138700

>>5138684
Wikipedia and such are part of this problem. It's a problem in the sense that anything that takes more than a glance at a wikipedia page being considered not worth it. The idea that if people can't consume something in five minutes and understand it completely then it's elitist and pretentious. That's what I meant by an anti-intellectual sentiment.

>> No.5138707

>>5138263
this

>> No.5138710
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5138710

>>5138531

People are lazy, not willfully ignorant. Our situation of *supposed* anti-intellectualism is a product of liberal hedonism and a loss of the protestant work ethic, not because people are scared of ivory towers (as ten minutes on tumblr will tell you). People like you are the problem. Get bent.

>>5138540

>>>/leddit/

>> No.5138719

>>5138263
It already did. The final blow was postmodernism and the death of the high/low distinction.

>> No.5138743

>>5138710
People aren't scared of ivory towers, instead they fuel their laziness by deriding "intellectualism" as a stuffy, worthless endeavor. Lack of work ethic and hedonism is easier to pursue than gaining knowledge, which is why it's celebrated: so that people can feel better about themselves while othering and demeaning those who don't feel the same way.

People like you who feel like life is a competition and that they're always superior, sometimes going so far as to twist the situation with some retard rationalization, are the problem. Get fucked.

>> No.5138770

>>5138743
Here's a recent commercial that shows the concept in top form: http://youtu.be/cxyCJYPqYO0

>i can't understand cocktails so i'll make fun of them while drinking straight vodka i'm superior lol

>i can't into intellectual pursuits so i'll make fun of it while doing nothing i'm superior lol

>> No.5138774

>>5138263
is soda killing water?

>> No.5138781

>>5138774
is my dick killing ur mum?
the answer is yes

>> No.5138795

>>5138540
> anti intellectual sentiment

Literally only dumb people have this sentiment. Just like how you hate Jocks because you're a scrawny bitch

>> No.5138804

>>5138795
>Literally

>> No.5138846

>Acting like young adult isn't a great way to develop reading skills when you're 13

Seriously, I read plenty of YA when I was in elementary/middle school, now I've moved on to more high brow literary works. If anything it's accessibility is a great way to foster a love for literature in the youth.

>> No.5139243

>>5138241
"Schizophrenic as fuck" aside, it might be a bit difficult for you, if you admit to having a sub-par attention span. But if you keep with it, keep in mind there are a fuck-ton of paradoxes (Catch-22's) that if you don't pay attention, they'll fuck you up.

>> No.5139263

>>5138093
Killing literature, no. But the thing (at least to me) that's so frustrating about YA lit is that it's usually:

1. Poorly written (to service the attention span of teens)
2. Just wish-fulfillment (if I hear one more girl say she hopes she'll find her Augustus Waters, I swear to Christ I'll....)
3. Full of unsophisticated drama

I realize that Young Adult lit is about Young Adult problems most of the time, which is why it seems so trivial to adults (I'm only 18 but it still seems trivial to me). That's not to say there aren't good YA books, although "The Book Thief" and "The Westing Game" are the only good ones I've ever read.

>> No.5139292

>>5138131
yes but many of them do. and it's not like everyone who is introduced to movies through some kind entry level film ends up becoming a film buff. be realistic

>> No.5139295

>>5138846
But what do you think of the countless 20-, 30-, 40- and 50-year-olds who still read YA?

>> No.5139503

>>5138535
You mean the decadence in a system fully based on classes, with richly developed art of different standards.

Yeah, I'm going to ask you to go back in time so you can stop right there.

>> No.5139520

When I was a young adult, I read a lot of YA books. They definitely helped me get into more 'serious' literature.

>> No.5139593

>>5138241
Start with the greeks.

>> No.5139618

YA isn't killing literature, but the fact that it's seen as something for adults to read is downright embarrassing.

>> No.5139638

>>5139295
That group doesn't exist.

>> No.5139642

>>5139618
It isn't.

>> No.5139643

In America? Yeah, aiding the death of literature. But so is garbage like DFW and Tao Lin.

If you want contemporary literature even worth reading, you have to look outside the pampered, I-got-nothing-to-say-but-I'll-fill-these-pages-anyway likes of Franzen, Foer, and DFW.

>> No.5139778

>>5138093
I bought it because someone recommended me this book. I'm pleb?

>> No.5139787

>>5139643
Franzen has stuff to say, he is just not that good at saying it.

>>5139642
Don't kid yourself. It's the same type of crowd who gets disney themed weddings.

>> No.5140000

>>5138093
Shut up, op, just shut up.

>> No.5140033

>>5138535
>Rome's decadence
Was this actually ever a thing, rather than a stereotype people nowdays convince themselves of through repetition because of the modern horror of empires? I mean was there ever an actual period of roman history that can justly be considered 'decadent', rather than individual episodes that have parallels in any culture or society, before or since? Because the closest I've found to any supposed decadence are criticisms by contemporary Romans looking back previous periods of their history with natural fondness and nostalgia.

>> No.5140035

>>5140033
back at*

>> No.5140079

>>5139778
no

>> No.5140091

>Is YA killing literature?

No, relativism is killing literature. You see, my dear Sebastian, when one adopts the odious view that all is equal in aesthetics, removes their leather glove to backhand anyone using terms like 'good' 'bad' and 'ugly', and starts raving from their soap box that all opinions carry the same weight, one inevitably paves the terrible way for absolute codswallop to be accepted alongside the greatest things our society can produce.

Sebastian, you have spent the better part of four years defiling any structure that aims to rank or grade or hold an aesthetic judgement, and now that you have succeeded; now that you have demolished the structure and wallow in your festering swamp of relativism; now you have uprooted the entire structure, killed objectivity, and flattened all discourse to the point that all opinions are equal; no you have your way, you proceed to throw your proverbial toys from your pram when some work appears that you yourself personally regard as 'a little bit shit'.

I do love you, oh dear Sebastian, but can you not see the folly of your ways?

>> No.5140327

>>5140091
So what's the alternative?

>> No.5140341

>>5140091

yo nigga why u speakin like a fuckin homo

>> No.5140345

>>5140091
what the fuck are you rambling about

>> No.5140349

>>5140091
Totally fucking agree.

>> No.5140355

>>5140091
who is Sebastian

>> No.5140372

>>5140355
Hello, I'm Sebastian.

>> No.5140374

>>5140091
OP, is your name sebastian?

>> No.5140395

>>5140091
Is Sebastian killing literature?

>> No.5140413

>>5140374
>OP, is your name sebastian?
Yeah, I told him on FB messenger that I'd made another John Green troll thread, because John Green is shit, and he's taking the piss out of me for saying John Green is shit when we had an argument about no objective values in art. His name is Oliver btw.

>> No.5140432

>>5140413
My dear Sebastian, I'm not belittling you for the argument, but more for following your adamant stance of, as you have just put it, "no objective values in art" with "John Green is shit"

It's your use of the verb 'to be'. You are presenting "John Green is shit" as a truth statement.

>> No.5140438

We need as many people reading as we can get. If even one YA fan gets the balls to pick up a real book, literature has won. There will always be trash in every art form.

>> No.5141040

>>5138093
Dumb kids like dumb shit, get over it