/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.5128059]

Has any book objectively or subjectively improved your life for the better? How? Explain.

It seems like most books are just distractions, escapism, like watching a tv show.

[Anonymous No.5128071]

>>5128059
>Has any book objectively or subjectively improved your life for the better?
Sure, many books have entertained me.
>It seems like most books are just distractions, escapism, like watching a tv show.
If by this you're implying that merely being entertained by something isn't an improvement over not being entertained, then you're going to have to explain what you mean by "improved your life for the better."

[Anonymous No.5128119]

>>5128071
>then you're going to have to explain what you mean by "improved your life for the better."

improved your character, mental abilities, virtues, able to see the world with more clarity, motivated you to do good and help others. Gave you some purpose or overarching goal.

Relieved your stress/anxiety long term, even after you finished it...I dunno...there's lots of ways to improve ones' life

[Anonymous No.5128132]

>>5128119

**continued...obviously a book isn't a magic pill to those things, but some can definitely give you strategies and inspiration to improve your life...while others are kind of like junk-food, just entertainment, even if they seem "literary" and well-written and aesthetic...

[Anonymous No.5128223]

Enchiridion

[Anonymous No.5128227]

pic related taught me to be a rational thinker

[Anonymous No.5128236]

Fictional books about people have really helped me. By realize that my problems and experiences aren't unique to me, and have existed ad infinitum before with a variety of outcomes, I feel more confident and equanaminous about what life throws at me, even regarding death.

[Anonymous No.5128250]

>>5128227

You gotta be fucking kidding me...

[Anonymous No.5128256]

>>5128132

As much as /lit/ hates Camus, L'Etranger really helped me out, and I would say that in a way, it really did subjectively improve my life.

background: at the time I'd read it, my friend had just passed away (we were 17), so I was feeling pretty fucking down. Went through the classic "life's not worth it" phase, and studying Camus' work in school opened me up to the concept of absurdism and general philosophy.

I guess it wasn't Camus' work as it was philosophy itself that I feel enriched my life, but L'Etranger was definitely the catalyst. After reading about absurdism, I delved into nihilsm and other branches of philosophy, and after a pretty emotionally taxing road, I feel I'm finally comfortable with my outlook on both life and death.

/rant

[Anonymous No.5128278]

>>5128256
>I feel I'm finally comfortable with my outlook on both life and death.

so what's your philosophy/purpose/meaning now?

[Anonymous No.5128281]

This book shaped my opinion on ethics and morality.

[Anonymous No.5128293]

>>5128227
How weird, I don't remeber Dawkins discussing rationality in that book

[Anonymous No.5128307]

>>5128293
Maybe you should reread page 475.

[Anonymous No.5128310]

>>5128278

I still don't believe my life has any purpose or meaning. I adhere to that nihilistic notion that post-death, all perceived meaning I'd held while living fades as I will no longer be there to appreciate/recognize it, but I find nihilism is kind of adolescent in its idea that the end invalidates the journey.

Sure, post death, nothing matters, but the idea that nothing matters also won't matter -- it's hard to fathom nothing, in that sense. But if you consider pre-life and post-death to be of the same state, not believing in any afterlife or deities, it seems pretty entitled to devalue human experience based on the idea that it wont 'matter' eternally. If, were I never to have been born, I never would have been able to appreciate the subtleties of life (tasting something amazing, riding a nice buzz, loving someone, being loved -- anything that makes you happy), then I'm just grateful I was able to experience anything at all.

If we lived forever, I feel as though that, too, would eliminate all purpose/meaning in life, as eternity would enable endless possibilities and endless opportunists to enrich one's life, regardless of prior experience. This kind of invalidates all action, as well, as you'd have infinite time to correct said actions. So, to me, this said it wasn't death that rendered life meaningless, but the concept of eternity. I think death actually makes life all the more meaningful (while alive), because it's only through impermanence that you're able to truly appreciate the beauty of a fleeting moment.

[Anonymous No.5128315]

>>5128307
I don't have the book with me, a friend of mine lent his copy.

>page 475

I don't remember the book being longer than 400 pages either

[Anonymous No.5128324]

>>5128281
We said for the better, not for the worst.
Now you have some of the most stupid and untenable opinion on morality. Right there with moral realists and christianity.

[Anonymous No.5128333]

>ctrl+f "stirner"
>no matches

Seriously, /lit/?

[Anonymous No.5128345]

>>5128310
>But if you consider pre-life and post-death to be of the same state

Yep. I think they are the same state but whatever that state of voidness is, it wasn't enough to protect me from birth.

Which is why the possibility of rebirth makes a lot of sense to me, although it's a bit disconcerting.

>If we lived forever, I feel as though that, too, would eliminate all purpose/meaning in life

Well if you are fundamentally unsatisfied then expanding that experience into eternity would be pretty awful. But if you have found fundamental peace then expanding it eternally isn't an issue.

[Anonymous No.5128361]

>>5128345

Eternal peace, however, I feel still differs from purpose or meaning. Death, in a sense, I feel is also eternal peace: "to be freed from life's passions".

Can you explain your thoughts on reincarnation? Exactly what do you mean by the term? That your consciousness will carry over?

Also you do have a point, however, with eternity not really bearing any significance if you've found true peace. I just feel that so long as there's a duality between 'good' and 'bad' (which I feel is pretty universally accepted as necessary to distinguish either), eternal 'peace' is moreso a lifelong aspiration than it as an attainable state. Even though I claim to be comfortable with my outlook on death, the uncertainty that naturally follows it scares the fuck out of me.

[Anonymous No.5128411]

Ethics and Politics have influenced my worldview in a way that I'm quite happy with.

[Anonymous No.5128418]

>>5128361
>Exactly what do you mean by the term? That your consciousness will carry over?

I don't know how it happens or the role consciousness has in it, but I believe I was a "formless" process prior to birth and then I became a "formed" process somehow.

I don't think reverting back to formlessness upon death will guarantee me eternal nothingness.

I tend to view it like the buddhists do, that beings get reborn but this is not necessarily an eternal process--there might be an end to it.

[Anonymous No.5128433]

>>5128411
You better be joking, m8.

[Anonymous No.5128438]

>>5128433
Why? You didn't like them?

[Anonymous No.5128443]

>>5128418

To each their own. To me, consciousness is just a property of matter. Conception is a purely physical process, and through this my consciousness was developed. I think the 'soul' is really just an amalgamation of opinions passed on through experience, and thus, post-death will too fade. After your consciousness and 'soul' fade, through another purely physical occurrence, it seems to me that it makes most sense that every trace of me, beyond my physical remains, will have faded, too, leaving nothing else to carry over in any way, shape, or form.

Again, these are just my views, and I wish in no way to invalidate yours. I'm just discussing/exchanging viewpoints.

[Anonymous No.5128452]

The border trilogy by Cormac Mccarthy changed my life. I had just dropped out of uni and it put down into words a lot of things I was feeling. In the next 3 years I Went from painting fishing boats for 7 quid an hour to working on the oil rigs of North Sea for 28.

[Anonymous No.5128470]

>>5128059
The process of reading a book or two a week has made me a sharper, more dynamic thinker. This is useful in relationships and my occupation.

Reading starting strength got me into a pattern of regular exercise including strength training. This vastly improved my mental outlook and confidence. It may be partially responsible for my success with my girlfriend.

Find something that interests you and study it. Study it by reading all the books on the subject you can find. If it's a topic that interests you, then you'll stick with the process of reading and go through books like they're nothing.

[Anonymous No.5128481]

No, they're just books.

[Anonymous No.5128496]

>>5128443
>To me, consciousness is just a property of matter. Conception is a purely physical process

It very well could be, I don't think this changes my idea at all or the possibility of rebirth.

If I am a material process or a consciousness process or a spiritual process, or a process combining all of these parts, then so be it.
That doesn't really change my idea.

The nature of the self is hard to define. But the point is, whatever this being is, at one point in the past it wasn't, it wasn't formed, materially or consciously...Yet being disintegrated, being nothing in particular, didn't guarantee me protection from existence.

So when people say to me your material body disappears, decays, disintegrates at death, this doesn't bring me peace of mind, since I was already in that state for 14billion years and look what happened.

Now I don't imagine that this is the only universe and only realm of existence, there could be infinite realms in which one could manifest and be built in...

[Anonymous No.5128497]

This Is Water

[Anonymous No.5128508]

>>5128227
Obvious troll is mother fucking obvious.

Although apparently not to >>5128250

[Anonymous No.5128511]

>>5128496
>So when people say to me your material body disappears, decays, disintegrates at death, this doesn't bring me peace of mind, since I was already in that state for 14billion years and look what happened.

[Anonymous No.5128556]

>>5128059
Culture isn't a distraction from the seriousness of life, or a kind of pill you can take to "improve your life", it's human life pure and simple. The fact that anyone could even think that culture is just an entertaining distraction, or a supplement is a fucking travesty.

Culture won't "improve your life", it's what makes your life. Through it you become who you are.

[Anonymous No.5128560]

>>5128236
Same here. Historical novels especially help me with this.

[Anonymous No.5128563]

>>5128556

not sure what you mean, there are definitely negative and positive aspects of any "culture"...

culture isn't inherently good and worth praising all the time.

[Anonymous No.5128589]

>>5128411
It's probably because I've only read Plato and Aristotle, but I think his ideas on ethics and politics are hella underrated.

[Anonymous No.5129249]

>>5128563
Culture is so basic that it doesn't make sense to talk about it in moral terms. It's like asking if the universe is good or bad.

[Anonymous No.5129274]

>>5129249

well then you've made it meaningless and you shouldn't even bring up the point...

[Anonymous No.5129283]

>>5129249
Go fuck yourself

[Anonymous No.5129312]

>>5129283
Culture as such you twat, not this or that cultural practice.

[Anonymous No.5129328]

>>5129312
>Culture as such

[Anonymous No.5129329]

>>5129312
I know you don't get called on your bullshit in your insular bubbles of academic nonsense, but you aren't actually saying anything.

[Anonymous No.5129636]

wow bump

[Anonymous No.5129671]

>>5129329
>>5129328
the reading comprehension here is abysmal. must be summer.

"culture as such" = any culture. culture in a general or abstract sense.

your reply, which included a comic of aztec human sacrifice, was NOT culture in general, as abstract, etc., but was a particular culture in a particular place in time.

the conclusion "culture is bad" does not follow from "there is this one practice in this one culture i think was a bad thing"

[Anonymous No.5129778]

>>5128059
>objectively or subjectively improved your life for the better?
well, I guess it's the case for someone who reads several books, gets a degree and then finds a job. Objective life improvement.

On a lighter note, I read in his biography that Elliot Rodger had read "The Secret". Apparently, the secrets to the positive attitude didn't work that well for him...

I wouldn't say escapism, but like someone said, at least some books made me feel I'm not alone.

- Ham on Rye, Bukowski. This book helped me feel a bit. Violent sadistic father, the idea that little girls don't pee (drive for perfection, from growing up in an authoritarian home). Studied journalism, but had to drop out. 1st job at Walmart ending in a boxing match on the roof with HS acquaintances who had teased him for being a failure (working at xMart)... Then in Factotum, the crappy jobs, but he still dreamed of journalism, for example he's been a janitor at the LA Times, been bold enough to get an itw for journalism. Rejected because he was seen as just the janitor.

I learnt that these types can eventually find a steady job at the post office, and keep dreaming about journalism through writing (memoirs, etc).

[Anonymous No.5129784]

>>5129671
>wasting your time explaining simple concepts to cantankerous people on the internet, instead of not.

It's never worth it; especially on this board.

[Anonymous No.5129787]

>>5129784
I know that semicolon is unnecessary, but I'm feeling saucy today.

[Anonymous No.5129800]

>>5128281
>how science can determine human values
PUKE
go to a fucking hospital if you want to see how science turns people into careless robots, everything BUT human.

[Anonymous No.5129818]

>>5128333
he changed your life?

[Anonymous No.5129892]

>>5128059
Apart from Ham on Rye, two of the books who impressed me the most are :
- The Empty Fortress (Infantile Autism and the Birth of the Self) by Bruno Bettelheim.
- Les Miserables by Victor Hugo. Late in life, Hugo studied serious philosophy (like Leibniz, Malebranche...) closely. He was preparing a book on philosophy. Finally he inserted all his thoughts on philosophy in Les Miserables (esp. book 4 and 5). Thoughts about religion, revolution and the after-life, progress... Understanding (and forgiving) that every generation has its conservatives, who want to enjoy life, because they will never get a second chance to enjoy life (he phrases this in a very poetic way... only a minority will die for ideals, sacrifice their life to the following generations, as every generation is entitled to its share of happiness).

Though I have a degree in philosophy and they're not considered as philosophers, Hugo and Bettelheim are def. my favorite philosophers now.
- Bettelheim quoting an autistic boy : "Vagina. Somebody's vagina is gonna explode. Explode us all". "I'm staying in this world". Autistic girl who used to be a mute : "Talking is fun. Talking is playing".

Bettelheim was a philosophy graduate (no degree in psychology) and believed that studying autism was the best way to study the birth of the self (in those who grow a Self far later than small children, who can't talk about it)

[Anonymous No.5129907]

>>5128452
>The border trilogy by Cormac Mccarthy
would you recommend this as an introduction? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_the_Pretty_Horses_(film)
directed by Billy Bob Thornton.

[Anonymous No.5129942]

>>5128059
Beautiful book. Despite having to read it at school, it really was a turning point in my life.

[Anonymous No.5129949]

>>5128059
Infinite Jest was the solely responsible for giving me the mindset required to stop my addiction of alcohol.

[Anonymous No.5129952]

>>5129942

[Anonymous No.5129975]

Mostly they just make the world seem shitty by comparison or point out how shitty the world really is.

[Anonymous No.5130014]

>>5128059
I had a really weird experience with this book. I was in college, abusing Adderall, and not talking to anyone when I read the book. I had always had those thoughts of killing people just to see if I had it in me. I felt like I was reading events about my future. It made me feel ashamed that I ever had those thoughts. I began to believe that the book was so close to reality, and that my decision to read it was so random, that it couldn't be an accident. I was a strong atheist before that book. I wasn't afterwards. I began to see Sonya as Jesus, and began to doubt the randomness of the world.

[Anonymous No.5130032]

>>5130014
wow. that is epic.

[Anonymous No.5130040]

Indirectly, books gave me a love for linguistics, what i studied in university.

It began with `Tutanamayanlar`, a Turkish book full of genius puns etcera. I saw the the greatness of language.

[Anonymous No.5130052]

>>5128059
I can't explain concretely how books make me a better person, but I think I've changed for the better by reading.

Sure, serial novels and the like are distractions, but a good book that has moral or psychological insight can absolutely better your life.

[Anonymous No.5130055]

>>5128059
>Has any book objectively or subjectively improved your life for the better? How? Explain.
Several, but this one came to mind first. I read it at 15 and it helped eliminate all the usual teenage nihilism and encouraged me to actually begin reading literature that wasn't normal high-school garbage.

[Anonymous No.5130076]

>>5128059
>It seems like most books are just distractions, escapism, like watching a tv show
If your view of art is so hollow that you believe it is only escapism and you take nothing out of it, you are a sad, sad man.

[Anonymous No.5130110]

>>5128250
It's actually a really good read despite the fedora associations.

[Anonymous No.5130487]

>>5129907
Film doesn't do the book justice.

[Anonymous No.5130535]

>>5128443

Nein, matter is a property of consciousness.

[Anonymous No.5130548]

>>5128059
>It seems like most books are just distractions, escapism, like watching a tv show.

7/10 bait, 300 replies incoming

[Anonymous No.5130562]

>>5130535
ok Descartes

[Anonymous No.5130593]

>>5130014

i think if you ponder the fact that you exist, at all, you'll be lead to some interesting conclusions.

just think about it

[Anonymous No.5130597]

>>5130535
>>5130562

it doesn't really matter what the nature or relationship is, refer to:
>>5128496

[Anonymous No.5131296]

>>5130014
I loved the 1st half of Crime and Punishment (the one that could be titled "Crime").

I remember Sonya now. Have you found your Sonya?
The second part ("Punishment") didn't change my life, for me it lacked the power of the 1st half, I feel it was written only for the Christian censorship. (crime = hybris)

[Anonymous No.5131311]

>>5130593
I'd advise against this, unless anon has a steady job and a close family to support him.
else, this is the highway to the psych ward.

[Anonymous No.5131313]

>>5128496
yeah maaaaaaaaaaaaan, only all sorts of things be possible, but if by 'rebirth' you mean matter assembling so as to form your present consciousness and personality, then that is highly, highly improbable. highly improbable. I mean really.

[Anonymous No.5131336]

>>5131296

>you will never find your sonya.

[Anonymous No.5131379]

Every book I read has an effect on me although I'm unconscious of any direct change in myself, I take count in the little my mind desires to remember. Mark Twain's Life on the Missisippi got me through my Wildean adversion to work; Thomas Mann's Magic Mountain gave me a skepticism on illness and sanity, all the while engendering a sense of mathematical and literary superstition as a mirror to life; Lawrence Sterne's Sentimental Journey taught me to take pleasure in travelling; James Joyce's Finnegans Wake introduced me to insomnia; Bolaño's Savage Detectives and Between Parentheses introduced me to Borges, Cortázar, Enrique Vila-Matas, César Aira, many otger authors, irony, despair and virtue.

[Anonymous No.5131383]

Hermann Hesse

How? He gave me hope.

[Anonymous No.5131386]

>>5131383
which one?

[Anonymous No.5131393]

>>5131386
Steppenwolf, but it depends on your character. Demian and Siddhartha where stunning experiences too.

[Anonymous No.5131400]

>>5128059

It confirmed my suspicions that people were full of shit.

[Anonymous No.5131423]

>>5131379
>James Joyce's Finnegans Wake introduced me to insomnia;

[Anonymous No.5131425]

>>5131400
why?
this is an unusual interpretation.

[Anonymous No.5131444]

>>5128345
>I think they are the same state but whatever that state of voidness is, it wasn't enough to protect me from birth.

best thing I've read in /lit/ so far

[Anonymous No.5131446]

>>5131400

Because what makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well.

[Anonymous No.5131483]

>>5131425
>>5131446

[Anonymous No.5131608]

Please don't devour me, /lit/. I'd have to say The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. I can explain how, I'm just lazy right now.

[Anonymous No.5131743]

>>5131608
42

[Anonymous No.5131865]

>>5131393
Have you read his Narcissus and Goldmund? or Beneath the Wheel? If not, I highly recommend both.

[Anonymous No.5131966]

>>5128556
This, sort of.

>Friendship is unnecessary, like philosophy, like art.... It has no survival value; rather it is one of those things which give value to survival.

[Anonymous No.5131967]

>>5129249
Genesis says the universe is good.

[Anonymous No.5132784]

>>5131966
>It has no survival value
But if you think about it for more than 10 seconds you'll see that's completely fucking wrong. There is a very clear evolutionary advantage to friendship because it causes people to share resources and protect each other which benefits both parties, just like the clownfish and the anemone.
C. S. Lewis was a hack.

[Anonymous No.5132790]

>>5131967
Why do I care what some band says.

[Anonymous No.5132836]

>>5132784
>But if you think about it for more than 10 seconds you'll see that's completely fucking wrong

he's half right, friendship gives value to survival. But he missed the part where friendship and relationships give you survival advantages.

[Anonymous No.5132850]

>>5132784
he's referring to an entirely different kind of friendship, one with emotional complexity, spending a lot of time caring about another person. It's not the same as cooperation. There's an entirely different relationship between, say, me and my neighbors forming a neighborhood watch to protect our neighborhood, or whatever, and me playing/discussing/hanging out with my best friend.

[Anonymous No.5132869]

>>5132850

having a best friend and fostering that relationship will probably help your survival more than being acquaintances with a neighbor.

If you lose your home, need a place to stay, need food, need help moving, need help in an emergency, guess who is more likely to help, your best friend or some random dude who lives across from you?

A best friend is also more likely to help you if you are beaten up...etc

[Anonymous No.5132991]

>>5131966
those who created religions and who were called "prophets", now we call them "philosophers".
People still live and die for religion, values.

I can't say that *one* book changed my life.
But a great number of books help survive to selfishness, meaninglessness, stupidity.

All the millions who gave their life in the past, they live on through stories.

To transmit their stories is of the utmost importance.
The guild of priests, clergy, masters, are always those who tell the stories.

[Anonymous No.5133029]

>>5132850
Cooperation is a purchase, friendship is an investment. Cooperation only works when both sides have something to contribute, while friendship is more like insurance that is paid for in advance. When things get bad you can count on your friends but not your neighbors because you have nothing to barter with, and therein lies the evolutionary advantage of having friends. The emotional complexity is the currency with which friendship is bought.

[Anonymous No.5133081]

>>5130055
Godamn that is a good book. I remember reading this in High School as well and trying to get my friends to read it by describing what it was about. Which didnt work.

[Anonymous No.5133161]

Oblomov

There were so many parallels between me and him, it made me realise I'd let fear and laziness rule my life for far too long. Got my ass in gear long enough to move out of my parents house into a flat, and after that my confidence and self esteem skyrocketed.

[Anonymous No.5133576]

>>5133161
good read.

[Anonymous No.5133790]

>>5128059
Notes from the Underground made me realize what a little bitch I was as a teenager.

[RobertJCross No.5133849]

>>5132790

Because Phil Collins has the invisible touch.

[Anonymous No.5134878]

>>5129784
I disagree. His clarification made what he said more understandable to me.

[Anonymous No.5135252]

>>5129800
>go to a fucking hospital if you want to see how science turns people into careless robots

genuinely?

[Anonymous No.5136655]

>>5128452
dude i can relate so hard, mccarthy helped me live