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/lit/ - Literature

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5127843 No.5127843 [Reply] [Original]

The sad thing is, the creator of this is serious.

>> No.5127846
File: 263 KB, 1000x808, wjyyy.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5127846

>>5127843
FUCK I FORGOT THE THIRD PANEL

>> No.5127850

>>5127843

>the creator

of this thread

>> No.5127875

i feel like anybody who makes shit like this or subscribes to this belief quite literally has no creativity or talent - they can be wholly discarded as something less than human. to believe that every choice of content in literature is made on something as basic as personal likes (i.e. 'Holden's hunting hat is red because Salinger likes the color red') is an immediate and final sign that somebody is literally a degenerate.

>> No.5127881

>>5127846
I like how 'conscious' is used as a noun.

>> No.5127882

>>5127875
epic owned.ftw

>> No.5127890

I like this artist.

>> No.5127897
File: 1021 KB, 291x165, 1403111371502.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5127897

>>5127882

>> No.5128023

>>5127875
Note that the Web comic name is "according to Devin". It's just his opinion.

That said, it's a terribly asinine comic and Devin is an idiot. I agree that he is a degenerate mongoloid

>> No.5128053

>>5128023
I found it on tumblr... with at least 100k notes, I believe.

>> No.5128152

Stock tumblrtime artstyle and poor over use of still faces to covey points? As we say in the old country: into the trash it goes!

>> No.5128168

>>5127846
>confusing author and narrator

>> No.5128171

>>5128053
tumblr is filled with retards? what a surprise.

>> No.5128183

>>5128171
>>5128152
>>5128023
>>5127882
>>5127875

Looks like the adjuncts are out in force.

>> No.5128186

we /pol/ now

>> No.5129475

>>5128183
No wonder American doctorates are worthless.

>> No.5129495

>>5127875
>no creativity or talent

He has good visual aesthetic taste

>> No.5129506

>>5127875
Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar

>> No.5129513

>>5129495
as in he can look at adventure time and try to make the same stuff except badly?

>> No.5129524

>>5127875
This is true but at the same time is there anything more boring than hearing someone prattle on about the optometrist's billboard in the Great Gatsby?

>> No.5129535

>>5127843

What /lit/ explains: Poe is a raven fucker.

>> No.5129538

>>5127843
If you have an iota of respect for the author you should assume that they had some sort of significant message in their story.

The raven isn't a poem about ravens, it's about Lenore. If you read it and miss out on the narrator's sense of despair and longing for his dead wife... you're a massive retard.

>> No.5129552

>>5128023
If you check out the rest of his comics you can piece together that he's a redditor.

>> No.5129559

>>5129535
The raven represents the author's regret, for he raped his sister.

>> No.5129651

>>5127843
Protip, anyone who draws based off the style of Adventure Time is a huge sheltered pleb and anything they say or think should be disregarded immediately.

>> No.5129697

>>5127843
intentional fallacy yo

>> No.5129698

>>5129506
literature is never restricted to pure referentiality

>> No.5129915

>>5127875
>they can be wholly discarded as something less than human
no

>literally degenerate
is that how we spell "ignorant" now I had no idea


OK but we all know that Shakespeare only meant to write plays deep enough not to be ridiculed and he often ripped off other works line-for-line only adding a few ghosts, witches, dick jokes, and Mary Sue jesters based on himself (in some sort of masturbatory wish fulfillment way that was not at all constructive to the stories or even made sense half the time) here and there. But, and yes you can start a sentence with "but," in high schools the teacher (who usually can't spell, if that's a tip off of any kind) raves on and on about how Shakie the greatest writer of all time and you'll never be able to write as well as him or fully comprehend his greatness. And when the teacher just barely scratches the surface of the existential or gender-based themes of the work (that Shakie played on a ten-beat drum but did not himself orchestrate) they sigh and tell the entire class how revolutionary and genius these ideas are even today and how nobody at the time of the play's writing had even begun to think of gender fluidity or (motherfucking) existence yet. All this while everybody in the class who has a clue (which means 0-2 students) are like "are you kidding me bitch all the plays from that era did it and better." I think it's quite possible that the artist was trying to depict the pretentious facade of enlightenment hiding the incompetence in our teachers and school system, but lacked the articulation or confidence in their audience's ability to recognize any more than basic caricatures needed to illustrate a clearer example.

And if they are honestly illiterate, as I know more than half my graduating class was, lets not forget that current fiction and symbolism as a whole is the collective collimation of a four thousand year competition to write more elaborate and pretentious fables than anybody else and that this has escalated to the self-defeating point that only the well-read can even understand what simple concepts and social constructs the author has weaved their seven-dimensional web to spell out, and that's really silly. I was totally buying OP's criticism until this one post irked me into opposition. Let's not reduce others to "less than human" for their inability to participate in the communal sharing of pretentious puppet shows.

>> No.5129929

>>5129506
a cigar is always a multiplicity

>> No.5129946

>>5129915
recommend me plays better than shakespeare's pls

>> No.5129961

I hate this kind of shit. There are even English majors I know that think that.

The author's intent DOESN'T FUCKING MATTER AT ALL. The reason why we study literature is to fine tune our abilities to extract meaning from something that isn't so obviously there. A work exists outside of its author, and so if someone has a certain interpretation, and can back it up with facts and evidence from the book (that's the important part), then it's there.

>> No.5129963

Sometimes things have multiplicative meanings, sometimes they don't. What really should be observed to determine artistic merit isn't how many things have deeper meanings, but how well the things that do are conveyed. If it's so obscure that people debate for decades what the actual meaning was, the author fucked up (unless said endless debate was their intention), if it's painfully obvious and doesn't incite deeper thought to obtain the true meaning, the author also fucked up.

It's gotta have balance, yo.

>> No.5129971
File: 19 KB, 400x400, what_the_fuck_am_I_reading.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5129971

>>5129915
Is this guy serious?

>> No.5129976

>>5129971
i thought it was a cheeky copypaste from one clueless reddit poster or something but apparently this guy wrote it all.
it's ok "bait", i guess.

>> No.5129999

>>5129552
Nobody fucking cares.

>> No.5130003

>>5127875
Holdens hunting cap is red because that's the color they are.
If he had made it bright pink with stars on it then clearly he wanted us to think about why the cap was red. But he didn't. He made it red because that's what color hunting caps are.
I understand that there is symbolism and deeper meaning in the text, but it's not in every single sentence of every single novel.

>> No.5130004

>>5129961
>The author's intent DOESN'T FUCKING MATTER AT ALL.
this is what plebs actually believe

>> No.5130008

>>5127843
>>5127846

Does he really think that Poe himself never exercised analytic creativity in his reading and writing when he was growing his own sensibilities?

How does he think one grows as an artist or as an appreciator of art?

This is just another pleb who can't into basic lateral thinking. Reddit type fuccboi shit.

Who cares.

>> No.5130012

>>5129961
I agree with you in that one is free to develop their own independent interpretations of a text, but wholly disregarding the intent of the author is an act of willful ignorance.

>> No.5130013

>>5129999
So nobody cares to know why he has pleb opinions?

>> No.5130021
File: 2.39 MB, 297x229, 1405162093648.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5130021

>>5129999
REKT

>> No.5130051

>>5130013
Why would anyone seriously give a fuck about what website someone frequents. No self-respecting adult would subscribe to the notion of a mock-rivalry between popular websites, contrived by acne-ridden adolescents with one hand on the keyboard, and the other firmly placed down their pants.

>> No.5130053

>>5127875
That form of criticism of criticism is awful. It's a willful refusal to engage with books as crafted things, things having effects on atmosphere, as things having subtle meanings, things that add to mood and message, but which aren't part of some stupid code being cracked in order to 'get' the book. The more salient features, as in, the plot, Holden's character, the prose, should say more than some small details, and in fact give the smaller details meaning in good work.

The cap's red because a cap with a color makes the cap more concrete, more real, it's the color of caps. It's read because Holden's choice of the cap means something. It has some sort of appeal to him. It's singled out in the text as something he likes particularly. The fact that it's a hunting cap is a little nod at Holden's attitude towards the world, that he's out to kill, and it's largely more for adolescent sport than out of a genuine desperation at the situation of the world. It's the hat he wears, as the cliche goes. The red, the inappropriateness of the cap, is a little touch that ties into how impetuous, precocious, show-y Holden is. Somebody wearing a red outdoors cap in the middle of New York, amidst a sea of gray hats, a cap among hats. None of this would mean anything if it wasn't supported by more in the text, though. If it were just some kid wearing a cap, not being a snarky, special-snowflake shit shit, then the cap wouldn't mean anything, it's just be detail.

>> No.5130058

>>5127843

>I AM A PHILISTINE AND THE CONCEPT OF SUBTEXT SCARES ME PLEASE HELP I NEED AN ADULT

>> No.5130080
File: 41 KB, 275x370, Cleanth_Brooks_Southern_Review_Spring_1995.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5130080

>>5127846
>raven literally saying "nevermore" repeatedly.
>poem explicitly dwells on a dead lover
>speaker literally asks the raven "is there balm in Gilead?" IE is there relief of worldly things, regrets, despairs, etc, in the afterlife.
>thinking a reading like this is over-reading in the slightest
>thinking this was somehow an ode to ravens
>not even knowing that Poe was a garbage poet who did infact include things that meant little more than mystery and ambiance in other poems, which would serve as much better examples

>> No.5130094 [DELETED] 
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5130094

GEEZ OP!
IF THIS IS A LITERATURE THREAD YOU SHOULD HAVE STARTED IT WITH A TRIGGER WARNING!

i'm going to have to make at least 2 tumblr posts about this now

>> No.5130130

>>5129961

I'll be honest. When I first started taking English classes in college, I felt the exact same way. Sometimes I still do.

The first thing we studied in college was The Yellow Wallpaper. I had never read it before. I thought it was about psychosis and not about postpartem depression. My professor scolded me and told me I was wrong, but that's how I read it...so I stopped analyzing shit.

Flash forward to English Literature I and everything out of my mouth was analyzation...until again I was told I had "an interesting theory, but it's misguided." I just can't win anymore.

>> No.5130180

>>5130051
>No self-respecting adult would subscribe to the notion of a mock-rivalry between popular websites
Good thing I never implied that in my post you fucking retard.

>> No.5130193 [DELETED] 

>>5130094
this kind of post is the unfunniest "cringeworthy" thing in 4chan right now

>> No.5130196

>>5130051

>No self-respecting adult -

Would ever rage about something on 4chan?

B T F O

>> No.5130229

people that can't write interpret

>> No.5130404

>>5127843
The raven represents how negative thoughts settle in your mind when you're alone and have nothing to distract you from them.

>> No.5130913

I agreed roughly with this comic to some extent; in public school they do go really overboard. It's NOT always about symbolism.

Of course in this example the use of Poe is stupid, the raven is an animal loaded with symbolism and that's how it was used.

>> No.5130932

i can't believe that this isn't satire
nobody can think that the point of the raven is that ravens are awesome, can they?

>> No.5131176
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5131176

>>5127843
you know what's really sad?

Waiting years for a translation of a danish book being republished and then getting bullshit like that instead because it's a press for gay literature who finally decided that book should be available again and the author was accidently gay - and suddenly all he wrote about was about his sexual feelings. maaaan.

I'm talking about the German translation of Herman Bang's "Haablose Slægter" (Families Without Hope) from 1880 which was already released in German decades ago last time but is was already sold out and hard to get by (or you had to pay quite a lot), as well all of his others novels. Then all of a sudden a serious and nice publishers started to release some new and really beautiful translations of his works, but so far they forgot about Haablose Slægter which was especially important for Bang's career for this book launched a huge discussion before it was banned which led Bang into depression. It was the very first of his novel, many more to come in the years after which finally made him successfull and famous.
So i thought, seriously they cannot forget about this book, they cannot simply skip it. Time will come I may just wait a little bit.

But noooo, a different publisher - that gayish one - already acquired rihts on that missing book. They published a new translation as well, but, maaaan, they are trying so hard to explain everything that happens within the story with Bang's sexual orientation.
What a pain in the ass!

I'm gay myself, but there should be a law against that, seriously. This shouldn't happen. Such flame boy faggots who can't differ betwen their own sexual desires and everything else shouldn't be allowed to do that.

>> No.5131187

Sorry for being a retard, but why is this wrong?

>> No.5131212

>>5131187
because of John Lennon.

>> No.5131246

>>5127843

Well that could have been pretty good sans third panel.

>> No.5131295

>>5131176
I feel bad for you.
Also for myself, since I'm danish and have barely read any of Bangs book, short of Tine, which was kind of meh to be honest (read it in school, so that might play in).
Why do you have such an interest in him?

>> No.5131329
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5131329

Knew I had this image somewhere around here.

>> No.5131811

>>5127843
>protagonist = author

>> No.5131939

The really bad false-flaggish effect of this retarded critique of interpretation is to obscure that the majority of symbolic interpretation is actually retarded. Like the guy itt who points out that Caulfield's hat is red. Now I haven't read the book, but if an author uses the color of a hat as a symbol for something important, that author is shit.

>> No.5132007

>Ripping off a pic that's been floating around the web for a decade and making it even shittier
I bet this fucker makes a living from his shitty webcomic too

>> No.5132492

>>5130051
>No self-respecting adult would subscribe to the notion of a mock-rivalry between popular websites

Yes. Let's all pretend this is true to feel like we're better than the people our age who participate in such strifes.

As far as any of us will let on, in agreeing with this post and aggrandizing ourselves, the mock rivalry of Pepsi vs. Coke that millions of self-respecting adults subscribed to is completely different and so much more mature than 4chan vs. Tumblr. The gender based, racially based, class based, and age based rivalries our peers, authority figures, and relatives can be observed participating in every day are totally different. "The reason only teens who buy from American Eagle subscribe to web community rivalries is because they're the only demographic immature enough to do so, and not because teens are virtually the only demographic identifying with websites and, you know, that people have always kicked up their affiliated groups into in group/ out group one-upsmanship or anything" we shall chant as we parade in our grey-scale hip clothes down the street to watch documentaries about minorities and problems that are currently popular to support while doing nothing to help them. "I'm not like the other teens" we shall bellow in unison as we agree with the aforementioned post. "We are the master race, my IQ is above 200, I wore thick rimmed glasses before other teens ruined them" the hive mind shall proclaim, telepathically, to all the imbecile plebs unfortunate enough to witness our /lit/ discussion.

age ≠ maturity; your self serving psudointellectual ideals of how adults act and what maturity should be ≠ maturity U you; you ≠ mature; you ≠ someone that sure what they're even talking about.

inb4: I don't personally subscribe to any website's rivalry, but I'll sure as hell jump on the anon soapbox to call someone on their tweenage psudointellectual BS.

-----
Also, in regards to OP, this 100%:
>>5130080

>> No.5132508

>>5130080
could you explain/say more about your last point?

>> No.5132619

>>5132508
I'm not that poster but I'm willing to speculate that if we're not too tired or brainwashed into seeing meaning in everything by reading analysis yet we should be able to locate their point by Googling "Poe" and skimming for the poems we've never heard that were. (of the ones written before his wife's death, that is) I'm sure there are a fair number of gooders that where obviously just written to bust through a block of fill space in a compilation, or to pay some bills in a hurry.

>> No.5132667

>>5127881
b-b-but it is a noun........ :)

>> No.5132682

>>5127846
It seems to me that Devin is quite the idiot.

>> No.5133172

>>5127846
I loled

>> No.5133202

>Author writes a god damn essay on how to write in oder to achieve desired emotional and intellectual responses in the reader
>devin thinks he just likes ravens

Jesus fucking chirst I wish some people would stop sharing every shitty little opinion that pops into their heads through a LUL funnez XD or webcomic style so that dumbshits agree with it.

For those curious check out Poe's "The Philosophy of Composition". The dude literally goes through the Raven stanza by stanza and explains why he chose the words he did.

This dumbfuck could not have picked a worse example for his shitty fucking opinion.

Even if the essay is a hoax/satire as some believe the very fact that Poe would write such a thing clearly elucidates "The Raven" is far more serious than "Ravens are cool guise aint this a gud story lul"

>> No.5133208

>>5132508
>>5132619
It actually has little to do with potboiler verse, and more to do with his theory of poetry.

From one of Poet's letters:
"Poetry, above all things, is a beautiful painting whose tints, to minute inspection, are confusion worse confounded, but start boldly out to the cursory glance of the connoisseur."

Poe unabashedly doesn't care about fine detail in his technique. He literally writes his poetry for casual reading. A lot of his poetry contains things that exist almost as mere adornments, for-filling the meter's count, or adding some faint mood, like a bunch of exotic sounding nonsense names. His poetry also, as a result, contains a lot of sentiments that are only vaguely situated, verging and sometime breaking into the sentimental.

There's also problems with the fact that his meters are nearly all maddeningly regular iambs, which only work in some of his poems by accident. Compare him to Shakespeare on madness and you see how awful a versifier he is.

The Raven is almost accidentally good. The banging iambs suit somebody who's growing more and more frantic, and who's locked in a repeating situation like his, that follows very directly from the beginning to the end.

>> No.5133224

>>5133208

I thought Poe wanted his poetry to be a serious effort, failed miserably at being a poet, and started writing gothic stories to get some money?

All his poems seem to me to be serious reflections on loss executed in mediocre fashion, unfortunately.

There is no doubt he did all the things you mentioned in regards to his prose though.

And I do agree about there being filler in some of his poems, but I think if there is any argument to be had about Poe lacking in, serious examinations of the human condition, for example, you'd be more justified to do so looking at his prose work.

>> No.5133227

>>5127881
>>5132667
agreed, it is a noun. your CONSCIOUS is an abstract idea but still a thing.

fucking tryhard plebs.

>>5133202
intriguing...
that there's good reason to think it's a hoax obviously takes away from your credibility, but as invalid as this is in this discussion it still sounds like a hella interesting read and i'll pour over that in a sec

>> No.5133248

>>5133224

I don't mean casual in the sense that it's for a low level of reader, I mean casual in the sense that he didn't write his poems to reward inspection, to be inspected, meaning that it almost always doesn't hold up to inspection. He defines elsewhere his letter, "Music, when combined with a pleasurable idea, is poetry" -- he's certainly grappling with ideas, ala Horace. (The fact that it's a single idea is also telling as to why his poems are often maudlin, rather than successful.)