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/lit/ - Literature

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5089042 No.5089042[DELETED]  [Reply] [Original]

Why do Western people want to be Buddhists when they can be Epicurists without all the magical cultural baggage?

>> No.5089069

Because of all the magical cultural baggage. There's nothing cool about starting with the greeks as every /lit/ memeposter can attest.

>> No.5089071

western buddhism = new age

>> No.5089082

Epicurus actually had down syndrome, his momy just wouldn't tell him.

>> No.5089096

>>5089082
>epicurus
>not the great sage of the hellenistic era

kek

>> No.5089112

>>5089096
Tutut ... Ur not 'tending your garden'.

>> No.5089116

>>5089096
>>5089096
Tutut ... Ur not ,'tending your garden'.

>> No.5089117

>>5089042

epicurus was pretty cool, besides "the atomic swerve" which is maybe the dumbest idea in the history of philosophy

other than that he was pretty right on

>> No.5089136

>>5089112
I am, bruv.

>> No.5089153

>>5089136
Wank le err yea then weelpon't

>> No.5089159

>>5089096
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Sages_of_Greece

>> No.5089161

>>5089159
>hellenistic era

>> No.5089163

I feel like the western equivalent to the Buddhists were the Stoics

>> No.5089171

>>5089163
Why would you say so? Buddhism and Epicureanism are both forms of negative hedonism and both take a medical/therapeutic approach to suffering.

>> No.5089183

Because the Buddhist method is much more worked out, especially in Mahayana, Zen for one. Heraclitus is the best greek anyway.

>> No.5089195

>>5089171

because the stoics believed like the buddhists that the passions are unnecessary and counterproductive

>> No.5089196

>>5089183
To add, westerns could be Gnostic, Alchemist or simply mystical Christian but it's much harder to perceive the cream of the crop of your own culture and much easier to get to the sweet nectar of a foreign one.

>> No.5089199

>>5089071
new age = co-opted spiritual and philosophical ideas, and practices in order to distract you and get your $$$

>> No.5089210

>>5089196
And last point, dear OP, is that popularity doesn't make a thing 'bad' nor does it make it 'good'. It simply makes a thing popular and overexposed which in turn might make people turn off to it and look for some other novelty. Buddhism is just a sanctioned novelty of the moment. When and if people realise it takes work and study like any other religion they'll quickly drop it.

>> No.5089302

>>5089195
So do the Epicureans for the most part.

>> No.5089809

Pyrrho

/thread

>> No.5089979

>>5089210
*tips fedora*

>>>/leddit/

>> No.5089987

>>5089809
Pyrrho makes Westerners want to be Buddhist?

>> No.5089989

>>5089987
Pyrrho

/thread

>> No.5090154

Because they're reacting against Christianity and their heritage.

>> No.5090180

>>5090154
Pretty much this. And it's here to stay. Unfortunately this means the stigma of 'western misunderstanding' is also sticking around. I'm with OP on this one, but I jumped ship to Tao.

>> No.5090586

>>5089042
>tfw been reading eastern teachings since I was 8
>tfw only people who are interested in it nowadays are new age faggots

>> No.5090633

>>5089069
>>5089071
>>5090154
>>5090180

This is one of those edgelord arguments that really rustles my jimmies. Yeah, a lot of Buddhism in the West gets assimilated to secular psychotherapy or New Age bullshit, but remember that it took China the better part of a millenium to fully grasp that what their imported Indian monks were teaching was more than just an exotic flavor of the Tao. We’re doing pretty well by that standard, especially when you consider that 200 years ago we weren’t even aware of “Buddhism” as a religious phenomenon distinct from all the other East and South Asian local cults.

>> No.5090764

The epitome of a Buddhist is a monk. But a monk is very anti life in the sense that they renounce almost all pleasure besides meditation.
No sex at all in any form. No music no vidya no movies no "tasty food" they can't even sleep in "comfy" beds
They renounce goals and most of life

>> No.5090805

>>5090764
Who are you addressing?

>> No.5090857

>>5090764
>life="comfy beds" and "vydia"
Comformist talk, you have a long way to go anon, are you ready for it?
Also, read the teachings of Tao Te Ching/Daodejing, much more allowing. You know what, just read /lit/ stuff, a lot, you sound like you just came from /tv/ or /v/ or /a/ or something like that.

>> No.5090880

>>5089979
I said that as a practicing Buddhist. There was no fedora involved, just slight pessimism in people's will to dig deeper into things they're supposed to be believing in.

>> No.5090896

The buddhist becomes a rock, supposedly, OP, which is preferable to being a slave to a turbulent environment. BUT GET THIS: BUDDHISTS FUCKING DIE TOO. Buddhism is my least favourite religion, to be honest.

>> No.5090903

>>5090896
"How's that cancer, buddhist George?"
"Fucking painful, man."

>> No.5090905

The ones who want to be faux Buddhists are all retards. The ones who aren't aren't Epicurists

>> No.5090906

>>5090903
Continued:
"Want some painkillers, buddhist George?"
*buddhist George cries because he's fucking stupid*

>> No.5090912

In fairness, capitalists are even worse. But buddhists are a special sort of retarded without a doubt.

>> No.5090913

>>5090906
>>5090903
What kind of name is George anyway.

>> No.5090914

>>5090633
Nigga please. It's a philosophy, at best. To be a religion, you would have to have a deity. And buddha said many times he was just a man, and he only used his thoughts and words, nothing supernatural at all.

He died, and stayed dead.

>> No.5090915

>>5090896
i liken it to being in a vegetative state
its giving up on living/making life on earth better

>> No.5090924

>>5090896
Oh it's 14y olds pull stuff up from their anus day...

>> No.5090927

>>5090912
>buddhist capitalist dichotomy
you wet mit

>> No.5090932

>>5090924
Counterarguments please bro. Granted, buddhists tick me off more than they would others for personal reasons.

>> No.5090938

>>5090927
I consider the buddhist a bitch capitalist, basically. He's still playing with materialism for control.

>> No.5090940

It's a purely aesthetic preference. In terms of actual content, Buddhist contemplative traditions are no more or less exceptional than those of any other major religion. Plus, those traditions are better represented in our popular culture than, say, the Rhineland mystics or the Hesychasts or the Sufis. Paradoxically, being "exotic" has made Buddhist traditions more known and accessible to the average pleb than their Abrahamic counterparts, albeit in a severely distorted form.

>> No.5090943

>>5090915
Where are you getting this shit from?

These are some of the dumbest "arguments" against Buddhism ive heard. Must be a ruse.

>> No.5090944

Alcoholism and buddhism are essentially equivalent, only alcoholism is less dumb.

>> No.5090953

>>5090932
So you have an issue with Buddhism because you had some assholes in your life that were into it? I feel for you anon and I don't blame you, but your vision is blurred because of this, your arguments are not really targeted at Buddhism but at this other person.

>> No.5090955

>>5090944
>alcohol
>not opium

>> No.5090958

>>5090953
No, wrong, dumb, shut up, and so on. I just despise people who can't pull their heads out of their own arses, and buddhism to me seems the epitome of having your head up your own arse. Go make a religion out of being decent if you're going to make one out of doing nothing at all.

>> No.5090998

>>5089042

It's actually pretty simple. Buddhism is a living tradition with millions of practicioners, some of whom have made an effort to spread knowledge of it in the West.

Nobody knows about Epicurus aside from a few Classicists and philosophy students, and that even is aside from the Christian propagandist appropriation of the terms hedonist and epicurean.

>> No.5091002

>>5090958
>I just despise people who can't pull their heads out of their own arses, and buddhism to me seems the epitome of having your head up your own arse.

Nice projection, asshole.

>> No.5091008

>>5091002
It's not projection, you thick fuck. And buddhism is an obvious fucking joke.

>> No.5091028

>>5091008
"Haha, I am going to not watch television, I am master of the universe!"

>> No.5091055

>>5090896
>BUDDHISTS FUCKING DIE TOO
>not knowing about buddhist life elixirs
Kek, sure we die ;)

>> No.5091064

>>5091055
Are you actually for real bro?

>> No.5091071

>>5091008

Of course it's a projection. You are spending your energy being angry at something you obviously haven't bothered learning even the bare minimum about. In a thread about Epicurus and Buddhism. Because anyone cares what you think on an anonymous image board. Just take a step away from your computer and breathe. Pull your head out of your ass, so to speak. Anyway, chill.

>> No.5091089

>>5091008
another lacerating intelligence destroys a major religious system with it's use of reason and logic only.

1000s of years of knowledge swiftly demolished by one prodigious man. be in awe and don't cross his path, for he is the ... GO BACK TO >>>/REDDIT/ faggotini

>> No.5091092

>>5091064
No I'm just a fat neckbeard looking for fun :/

>> No.5091113

>>5091092
>Neckbeard Buddha, patron saint of gentlemen college dropouts everywhere.

>> No.5091143

>>5091113
>your a loser anon. Your fat, sad, alone, broke and uneducated, you have no hobbies or friends and you smell weird.
>Hohoho, child, my sweet summer child, I'm for you information a buddhist. That means I don't care about "careers" and "success" and "winning" in your imaginery game. Does that make me superior to you? You tell me. Now if you'll excuse me, I have a shitjug to fill.

>> No.5091151

>>5091071
What do I need to learn about it, retard? Holy shit, dumb people are so fucking annoying. Nothing ever gets better unless someone has a distaste for it, realise that.
>>5091089
Appeal to your being fucking retarded.
>>5091092
OK.

>> No.5091160

Listen here, guys. A thing cannot be propagated by dumbness. That is a ridiculous notion. Ergo, buddhism is legit.
(Let alone the fact that 2 billion people think god writes books.)

>> No.5091162

>>5091151
Actually I'm a 231 year old monk, that was a test, and you failed :( Better luck in your next life, man

>> No.5091187

>>5089042
because pop culture

>> No.5091188

>>5089042

>magical cultural baggage

This is a pretty terrible characterization of Buddhism.

>Why do Western people want to be Buddhists

Because western philosophy no longer provides men with the tools to make sense of their post-modern reality.

A lot of us are just getting to the point where we don't feel like reading another book is going to do anything but make life appear even more complicated, confusing and impenetrable.

>> No.5091202

>>5091162
Haha, you're a fucking retard.

>> No.5091211

>>5091188
>This is a pretty terrible characterization of Buddhism.
It's a true one. Otherwise the Tibetans wouldn't be arguing over which demons you're allowed to worship.

>> No.5091217

>>5090940
Buddhist meditation and psych methods of inaight are elaborated in the official texts ad nauseum while they barely ever appear in the bible. Hesychasts just created a meditative tradition ad hoc..
They project it onto the gospels it really wasn't elaborated on by Jesus or apostles


Buddhist meditation is like Phd tier

>> No.5091241

>>5091188
The buddhist yearns for unconsciousness for he is no longer fulfilled by exploring the lands of Skyrim and Fallout and the word games of that crafty Nabokov make him feel so much the slave. He says, "No! I will not be your slave Nabokov. I will be independent of this world." It's god-tier retard solipsism, plain and simple.

>> No.5091251

>>5091241
That 'Buddhist' is a spook. A buddhist wants to be a part of this world, the real world, not the imaginary, and he's willing to navigate both the conscious and the unconscious parts of his psyche.

>> No.5091253

"Sorry, starving African child, I cannot help you. I am sworn to sit under this tree and do nothing. Hey, you're not even real anyway."

>> No.5091254

>>5091211

Buddhism is massive religious tradition with enormous variations among the sects.

Some reject the western notion of divinity entirely. Others do not. For some, the Boddhisatva is a kind of saint, for others, the achievement of Nirvana is an event of cosmic significance.

There's nothing I find more annoying in discussion on Buddhism than the knee-jerk application of atheistic skepticism without first suspending what is already know to learn what is new. Buddhist "learning" is more an "unlearning" of habitual thought patterns... you cannot even begin to grasp its ideas without at least suspending your own.

>> No.5091260

Buddhism and alcoholism are equivalent. They are refuge in unconsciousness.

>> No.5091267

>>5091241

I don't think Buddhism is a form of solipsism since it involves the attempt to realize the subjective experience that exists in all beings. If anything, it's a de-otherising of the other, or an expansion of self to the other. Either way, it's breaking down the dichotomy between self and other, not a retreat into self.

>> No.5091274

>>5091253

Buddhists do not reject acts of compassion towards others.

>> No.5091279

>>5090914
>To be a religion, you would have to have a deity.
Not true. Gods have a place in Buddhism, but there's no point in worshiping them. Buddha didn't just die and "stay dead", as your little shoot at Christ entails: he was freed from the cycle of reincarnation. Buddhism is very much grounded in supernaturalism and metaphysics: it is very open to possibilities.

This "just a philosophy" stuff is just Western dribble stripping it to the hair and bones and wear around to contrast with Christianity and other 'oppressive' and less trendy ways of life.

>> No.5091280

>>5091251
Nope. If death was the end then suicide would be the Buddhist ideal.

Rebirth is what prevents them from suicide...the sutras talk non stop about renouncing the world, senses and sense pleasures.
Nirvana gets you out of the cycle of rebirth aka life. Everything in life is unsatisfactory to a Buddhist and leads to sufferring.

>> No.5091289

>>5091274
The religion is about becoming nothing -- nothingness is of no use to anyone.
>>5091267
It's blatantly solipsistic dumbness.

>> No.5091312

Oscar Pistorius, handicapped athlete, does great things. He conquers his physical handicap with perseverance. Then he meets famed mentalist, Dynamo. Three months later he shoots his wife dead. Women, those crafty artificers of mental trickery.

And buddhism is the same. People too wrapped up in their own being slaves to give a single fuck about anyone else.

>> No.5091313

>>5091289

I'm sorry but I don't see the use in trying to have a conversation on Buddhism with someone who is too lazy to read a single-volume introductory text on the topic.

gtfo /lit/ with your wiki-tier knowledge and stop dribbling all over yourself.

>> No.5091327

>>5091253

Why do starving African kids always come up to prevent ppl from self improvement or meditation lol...

From an economic POV charity is shit and ineffective at helping Africa. Its also racist...the ones who can help Africa is Africans themselves. Outsiders can't do much at all and end up hurting them or maintaining the status quo

Also blind ppl can't help the blind...get some wisdom first before u end up doing more harm than good.

>> No.5091336

>>5091313
Here's your psychology, retard anon: >>5091312
Dress it up in all the rhetoric you want.

>> No.5091346

>>5091327
>Its also racist
You're an idiot. Talk less. All right, I've had my fill of being mad with retards for the day.

>> No.5091350

>>5091327

This is off topic but I totally reject your analysis of poverty in Africa.

Africa is a ruined continent because of residual colonialism in the form of artificial and forced borders and neo-colonialism in the form of resource pillaging by multi-national corporations.

It's not that something positive needs to be done so much as what is negative needs to be recalled and reconfigured immediately.

>> No.5091356

>>5091336
What does that have to do with Buddhism?

Buddhism is about overcoming selfishness and your false ego

>> No.5091373

>>5091356
No it isn't. It's about retreating from the world and your failed selfishness -- and into a more retarded and pathetic selfishness, mind you. It's alcoholism with the alcohol, basically. Think Oscar Pistorius has taken up buddhism in his prison cell? He might as well, right?

>> No.5091374

>>5091217
>Buddhist meditation and psych methods of inaight are elaborated in the official texts ad nauseum while they barely ever appear in the bible.

Buddhist and Christian (and Hindu, Islamic, Jewish...) contemplative practices have all been developed over time from scriptural precedents. The Hesychast tradition grew out of the practices of the Desert Fathers and Mothers of the early church; their own "official texts" are extensive.

>They project it onto the gospels it really wasn't elaborated on by Jesus or apostles

That's a silly way to look at things. Religious scriptures never spell out everything in detail - much is left for believers to elaborate according to their different temperaments and needs. Things are better this way; it creates internal diversity.

By your logic, schools of Buddhist thought like Zen are equally "inauthentic."

>> No.5091382

>>5091346

Not >>5091327

but he does have a point about racism in the following sense:

a well known feature of colonialist domination is the propogandistic "civilising mission" among the dominating class/nation.

It really pisses me off when college kids go off to Africa, build some houses and visit an orphanage for a Facebook photoshoot only to come home, get an internship working for Exxon Mobile and talk about how moving their "experience" was over a cup of Ethiopian coffee.

>> No.5091396

>>5091382
You're right, anon. What we should do is just let them starve so as not to be racist.

>> No.5091397

>>5091350
>>5091346

Go read some African economists who know the subject well. Charity and 'outside help' are ineffective and potentially destructive.

Charity and help in a mass disaster like an eearthquake is different but for battling poverty it is awful.

Also its a privileged and racist 1st world mentality that thinks only we can help starving Africans and the tasks is to amass tons of charity and foreign support. Sorry it hasn't worked in the past 40 years and never will.

Go read Dambisa Moyo . etc

>> No.5091405

>>5091396
That would be morally superior to feeding them so that they breed to the point where even more of them starve.

>> No.5091430

>>5091405
That's fucking retarded and atrocious. There is no greater good, only raging against the bad. When you turn to valuation of life, you submit to monstrosity.

>> No.5091435

Who fucking knew, right? Feeding a starving African child is immoral.

>> No.5091442

>>5091396

What is needed is revolutionary change and a total reconfiguration of global hegemony.

Africa will never heal until the oligarchies of the first world are forced out of power.

The desire to help is good and natural, but one must be realistic about the depth of the evil that causes it.

Mostly what needs to occur is the realization that the consumerism and material "prosperity" of first-world lifestyles are directly related to the poverty and instability of the third-world.

>> No.5091449

>>5091374

Buddhist scriptures do spell it all out in explicit detail. The pali cannon is gigantic .

The meditative details in Buddhism are everywhere . the official content is incomparable to the christian bible in this sense.


The christian commentaries are ad hoc and superimposed in the bible. Jesus didn't teach meditation or much psychology at all. He said don't lust but never explained how...Buddha did in super detail.

Zen is based on the sutras they always go back to them. They just concentrate on a select few. They do a type of vipassana or samatha meditation calling it zazen.

Hesychasm isn't in the bible. Its an after the fact creation...

>> No.5091453

>>5091442
Agreed. Let's not try to twist that into "Let's be buddhist" though.

>> No.5091459

And you know what, I am projecting, and hardcore. But it's being angry with my past self, my weaker self.

>> No.5091467

Well shit, this was enlightening, lol.

>> No.5091469

>>5091435

Nobody is saying that giving food to the poor, or the impulse to do so, is evil.

What I'm trying to say is that living a first-world lifestyle and existing as the beneficiary of colonialist domination is fundamentally at odds with that impulse.

What slaves needed was John Brown, Frederick Douglas and William Lloyd Garrison, not a well-meaning slave master.

>> No.5091473

>>5091373
How do u figure this? A person who wants to overcome his suffering and delusions and act ethically to help others is being selfish?
Lol

>> No.5091474

>>5091467
Buddhism is still fucking retarded though.

>> No.5091482

>>5091473
>and act ethically to help others is being selfish?
Nice rewriting the religion which is mostly about achieving Nirvana and disappearing from the world.
>>5091469
Oh do shut up.

>> No.5091484

>>5091474

What confuses you about it?

>> No.5091486

Peace, dudes.

>> No.5091490
File: 33 KB, 512x333, Thích_Quảng_Đức_self-immolation.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5091490

>>5091453

You should be aware that there are politically active Buddhists, and that subsets of Buddhists do not characterize Buddhism as a whole (it works both ways, yes).

That some Buddhists perceive political / social struggle as not only "okay" but actually "implied" by their Buddhist beliefs is enough to dismiss this ridiculous equation of Buddhism with solipsism or retreat from the world. Pic very fucking much related.

>> No.5091496

>>5091482
>nirvana

The path to nirvana is 8 fold, the ethical lifestyle is always a part of it.
The marks of buddhahood are ethical and compassionate living.
Even if you had realization in an instant your actions would be the directed at helping others like Buddha did

>> No.5091499

>>5091482
>Oh do shut up.

Why don't you say something substantive?

I'll tell you what, I'm not a contrarian and I take all of this business about helping end poverty extremely seriously.

If I'm making such an enormous misjudgement that I can be dismissed outright, I could use some guidance.

Do share.

>> No.5091517
File: 26 KB, 514x620, LisaSimpsonStudent[1].gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5091517

pic related

average western buddhist

>> No.5091518

>>5091484
Anon, I'll tell you straight, and this is something I've just realised. There's this sort of suicide, anon, where the person would deny their own selfishness, and for others supposedly. I'm pretty sure Heath Ledger gave himself to it, actually, having so owned the character "The Joker," and another member of Wutang clearly would've given himself to it recently, only he failed (still managed to chop off his own dick, though, before jumping off that roof). I was like this, anon, and nearly committed such a suicide, perhaps just wanting out and trying to dress it up in bullshit honourableness. Anyway, I didn't, but I did manage to set a good example for a cousin of mine throughout that whole crisis. He did. And the world is no better for his not being in it. And nor would it have been for my not being in it. And nor is it better for having retard escapist buddhists in it. And that's buddhism. Live your life a mix of fury and love, anon. Never retreat from it. Make a religion of kicking the living shit out of all that is wrong with the world.

>> No.5091526

>>5091430
>a hundred starving children is no worse than five

What are your thoughts on crime prevention?

>> No.5091532

>>5091526
Tie down wild dogs.

>> No.5091540

>>5091517

There's no doubt that pseudo-Buddhism finds its way into plenty of self-help books and fuses with positive psychology and capitalism to form some kind of horrible Frankenstein of new age ideology.

But to see any given western practitioner of Buddhism as some kind of poor, misguided soul dawning the latest religio-fashion would be an enormous mistake, and probably a form of arrogance.

It's also fundamentally misanthropic to doubt the existence of serious self-inquiry in others outright, and it mostly stems from the fear of deeper subjective experience existing in others.

If you're like most people on /lit/, you treasure your introspection and the profundity of your thought, and you root a lot of your identity on it.

But this is nothing but an extension of capitalist valuation hierarchies to an area of human experience where it's totally inappropriate to do so.

Do not fear profundity in others. It is not a threat, it's a relief from loneliness and attachment to self.

>> No.5091609
File: 56 KB, 490x386, f67.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5091609

>>5091442
>look at me i read a book about sociology and now i know everything

>> No.5091624

>>5091442


africa wont heal aslong as africans as they are exist as they will.

>> No.5091707

>>5091609

I've never read a book about sociology. I did watch a lecture on Youtube by Edward Said on "The Clash of Civilizations" thesis and I have read a bit of the seedy underbelly of Cold War history.

The most important and egregious case is Lumumba. I challenge anyone to look at the history of Congo from Leopold to Lumumba and tell me that imperialism ended.

Then have a look at Exxon Mobile in Nigeria to bring it into full context.

None of this is impenetrable, difficult or something you need a PhD to understand. It's not even theoretical in nature.

>> No.5091717

>>5090896
to be rocklike is all a man should aspire to

>> No.5091722

>>5090914
>all this self assured wrongness

>> No.5091727

>>5091717
Haha, yeah man! ur a fucking idiot brah

>> No.5091729
File: 38 KB, 462x517, 1365876670872.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5091729

>>5089042

>Epicurus

I think you meant Epictetus

>> No.5091743

>>5091727
>hasn't read the apologia of Fausto IV

captcha: saint githigh

>> No.5091779

>>5091743
Epic captcha, lol.

>> No.5091787

Have any of the rest of you noticed that the captchas always related to what's in the thread? I'm talking credit for that one with my comparing buddhism to alcoholism.

>> No.5091791

>>5091787
Also, does anyone have anything on the mechanism behind this?

>> No.5091820

Of course maybe they aren't, lol. I've had so many of them so precise though.

>> No.5091831

>>5091779
why is everyone on lit such a fun police cunt?

>> No.5091847

>>5091831
It's kinda fucking weird you'd take issue with someone expressing enjoyment, anon.

>> No.5091854

>>5091847
i have never seen the word 'epic' or 'lol' used on this board in any other way than a derogatory, cunty, ironic put down and don't believe that post is any different to all the others

>> No.5091863

>>5091854
Oh...well, you're wrong. That was my post and the following ones should detail to you that I was laughing in having perceived a peculiar relevance to the captcha.

>> No.5091870

>>5091863
oh

>> No.5091875

>>5091870
And this too was funny. Keep it up, anon.

>> No.5091878

>>5091875
Keep up what?

>> No.5091883

>>5091878
Being a cunt.

>> No.5091885

>>5091878
Being a cool guy.

>> No.5091886

>>5091883
I was being sincere and was wrong, jeez

>> No.5091888

>>5091883
Wow.

>> No.5091901

>>5091883
kek, stay mad faggot

>> No.5091902

>>5091888
Reminds me of a time sitting across from a skin-headed dude in a beer garden. It just popped into my head: "Dude looks like a Nazi," and literally the second it arrived there another dude with me voiced the opposite, "You look a Jew."

>> No.5091908

Because Buddhism is much more developed and easier to get into than Epicurianism and the other Hellenistic schools.

Think how hard it is to find a community and people learned in these schools compared to Buddhism and other established religions. The necessity of self teaching and practice (which goes against Epicureanism a bit) really stifles it.

Unless those scrolls in Herculaneum turn out well or some other works of Epicurus are found its always going to be a tiny internet if not solitary practice. Barring of course someone wealthy and powerful pushing it.

>> No.5091914

>>5091787
all of the posts suggest you're heavily mentally retarded.

there's no mechanism that reads fucking 4chan posts to make a captcha.

no buddhism is not an escape into unconsciousness.

now please, for the love of everything that is good, shut your whorish mouth on subjects you know nothing about.

>> No.5091920

>>5091914
Actually, mate, I'm highly fucking intelligent. And I've figured time and time again that there isn't such a generator, but hey, you never know -- maybe they threw one in in being dyslexic friendly or something. Also, attack a chain at its perceived weakest link, eh?

>> No.5091926

>>5091920
I'm literally in the .001% intelligent range, bro. How does it feel?

>> No.5091937

I do like to set people up to smash them down. That's a nice idea about the captchas, right?

>> No.5091954

>>5091908
That just makes the stoics so much cooler and less mainstream

>> No.5091961

Oscar Pistorius' trial started today too, I googled him after I made that post about him. Who thinks I knew it did in the massively numbercrunching back of mind?

>> No.5092012
File: 946 KB, 791x1518, Zeno_of_Citium_pushkin.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5092012

Why do Western people want to be Epicurists when they can be Stoics without all the emotional baggage?

>> No.5092022

>>5092012

I'm reading The Enchiridion and this shit is more reasonable/wise than Buddhism IMO.

>> No.5092032

>>5091920
i fucken highly doubt it matey.

you sound like a douchebag liar, reasoning your way out of every dumb shit statement you make
>but i actually meant...
no, fuck you, you said what you said. not going to chase you around a slippery lying prick you are

you sound like a supreme gentleman, at best.

>> No.5092033

>>5092022
What Buddhist works have you read?

>> No.5092046

>>5091926
if i entertain the idea for 5 minutes of you actually being intelligent (it's hard), you still have nothing of fucking worth besides that. you're the equivalent of body builder, you're scum on every other level besides your big muscles (reference to your supposed big brain).

>> No.5092056

>>5092033

A ton. Many sutras, many commentaries. Its fine stuff but actual Buddhism as practiced by monks not amayeurs, buddhism at its highest point is very restrictive and a bit contradictory.
They don't deal well with sex for example or ambition and passion for life. They are too obsessed with sufferring and their solution is to expunge all attachment. But to me attachment and clinging aren't inherently bad, it depends on how they are done....they are on a spectrum.
The stoics realize this so they say if u get attached to a song or a wife just realize what they are, handle them with care and when they are gone think of it in such and such manner, etc.

While the monks way to deal with the suffering of losing a wife or song is to abstain from sex and marriage and music altogether.

This idea of nirvana changes Buddhism into a utopian ideal also...we can improve ourselves of course but never perfect ourselves

>> No.5092082

>>5092056
Is there much of a difference between Theravada and Mahayana works?

>> No.5092088

>>5090914

>there are no gods in buddhism

Is this what westerners actually believe.

>> No.5092098

>>5091151
>What do I need to learn about it, retard?

Ah, I didn't realize you were American, please excuse me. Carry on.

>> No.5092113

>>5092088

it would be better to say there doesnt have to be gods in buddhism

>> No.5092116

>>5092113
But there there needs to be ghosts

>> No.5092122

>>5092082

Only superficially, although their monks have different vows. Fundamentally they are the same once you get to the meat and bones IMO.

>> No.5092131

>>5092116
>>5092113

Gods in Buddhism are hypothetical super beings, like aliens or greek gods, and shit. They are used as thought experiments more than anything....to show that power and pleasure don't truly satisfy since none of the gods are eternal and will eventually lose all their cool powers.

Are they possible? Sure. Do they exist maybe. Who knows.?

>> No.5092136

>>5092131
And also to explain the ability for the human population to increase so rapidly despite ideas of reincarnation.

For instance if all animal life was wiped out would the human population still be able to increase?

>> No.5092144

>>5092131

There are definitely chunks of Buddhism that practice what can only be described as worship.

In the same sense that saints and Mary are sometimes elevated to deity status and direct worship by peasant women, apotheosis is a common phenomenon in the lay practice of all religions.

We shouldn't be so God-phobic; deities can express and capture aspects of reality and provide an entry point for non-doctrinal, non textual religious experience. This too is a part of reality.

>> No.5092152

>>5092136

Yes, assuming the ecosystem would still support life.

Buddhism has no 'souls' anyway....personas are generated out of the void and are the void.

>> No.5092168

>>5092144

There are aspects of modern secular life that can best be described in terms of worship. If people do not actively pursue scepticism it takes very little to fall into incredulity and superstition, no matter what you profess to believe in.

>> No.5092173

>>5092152
How can the population increase then if there are no alternate realities or other beings re-incarnating as humans?

>> No.5092175

>>5092012
>muh just godly universe

>> No.5092181

>>5092173

There are no souls, retard, reincarnation is the chain of action.

>> No.5092186

>>5092173
Buddhism has no reincarnation that's a Hindu idea...transmigration of souls.

Buddhism has no souls. It has rebirth

>> No.5092193

>>5092032
Doubt it all you want, fucktard. In this thread you were my bitch, and rightly so. Didn't you catch the spelling mistake? I call it "torelled," lol bitch.
>>5092046
Incorrect. I am the antichrist and destroyer of decrepit retardation.

>> No.5092199

>>5091449
>Buddhist scriptures do spell it all out in explicit detail.

If that were truly the case, there would be no need for sprawling medieval works like the Shobogenzo. Every religion has a large amount of content that is extra-scriptural; all that matters is that you're able to find some kind of precedent or justification in scripture.

>The meditative details in Buddhism are everywhere . the official content is incomparable to the christian bible in this sense.

Christianity is, and always has been, more than the Bible.

>The christian commentaries are ad hoc and superimposed in the bible.

Meaningless.

>Zen is based on the sutras they always go back to them. They just concentrate on a select few. They do a type of vipassana or samatha meditation calling it zazen.

Likewise, Hesychasts follow the biblical command to "go into your closet and pray" (Matt. 6) and use the prayer position attributed to Elijah in 1 Kings 18:42.

If you're trying to argue that Zen is more "authentic" than Hesychasm, you won't succeed.

>> No.5092203

>>5092181
I didn't say there had to be souls.

>> No.5092205

>>5092186
>Buddhism has no souls. It has rebirth

So what is the difference between rebirth and reincarnation?

>> No.5092210

>>5092186
>that's a Hindu idea

So is Buddhism, a heretical one

>> No.5092218

>>5092210
>[I]s Buddhism, a heretical [idea]
To some, yeah.

>> No.5092225

>>5092205
Personas appear when conditions are right. Not when a soul finds a body.

>>5092199

Go into your closet isn't much of instruction while Buddha had hundreds of pages on various types of meditation.sorry but Buddhist meditation is1000x richer than christian.

Orthodoxy is one form of christianity. And even with the orthodox ad hoc superimposed works they still pale in comparison to Buddhist pali canon OR the Buddhist commentaries.

Meditation is fundamental to all forms of buddhism . hesychasm is a minor and vague practice done by a tiny subsection of Christians
Its also not fundamental to salvation.

>> No.5092228

>>5092203
No, you asked a dumb-fuck question and you didn't get the answer when it was served to you on a fucking plate cut into little bite-size, easily digestible pieces.

>> No.5092235

>>5092218
>pedant fails at making sentence grammatical

>> No.5092242

>>5092225
So when buddha was talking of past lives was he referring to his persona in different physical forms?

>>5092228
Why are you getting so worked up? Not knowing the difference rebirth and reincarnation hardly seems stupid.

>> No.5092245

because its trendy

>> No.5092260

>>5092056
>While the monks way to deal with the suffering of losing a wife or song is to abstain from sex and marriage and music altogether.
That's because it works. Stoicism is just watered down Cynicism for the undisciplined worldly upper classes, really.

>> No.5092262

Because telling a girl im a Buddhist might get me laid

>> No.5092272
File: 8 KB, 160x160, 1385634795235.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5092272

>tfw you get into zen buddhist literature and get a terrifying existential crisis

das it mane

>> No.5092278

>>5092260
Define 'it works'?
If everyone was a monk we'd be antinatalists lol.

Abstaining is not how u overcome suffering. The fire still burns and their aversion still causes them discomfort. Buddha said asceticism was extreme and wrong view...yet the monks are basically ascetic

>> No.5092281

>>5092225
>Go into your closet isn't much of instruction while Buddha had hundreds of pages on various types of meditation

*hundreds of pages attributed to him

The author(s) of the canonical Buddhist scriptures had centuries-old traditions of Hindu dhyana to draw from. Hesychast contemplation is a tradition of prayer, strictly speaking, and Christian scripture has no shortage of things to say on that subject.

>sorry but Buddhist meditation is1000x richer than christian. Orthodoxy is one form of christianity. And even with the orthodox ad hoc superimposed works they still pale in comparison to Buddhist pali canon OR the Buddhist commentaries.

>Muh religion is sooo much kewler than everything else

You're not telling me anything substantial.

>Meditation is fundamental to all forms of buddhism . hesychasm is a minor and vague practice done by a tiny subsection of Christians

You're betraying your lack of familiarity with religious traditions. The Philokalia is anything but vague. The vast majority of Buddhists do not live a monastic life devoted to meditation, though they may meditate. the Jesus Prayer, which is probably the closest Eastern Christian equivalent to "meditation," is practiced widely by believers of all stripes.

>> No.5092318

>>5092218

it wasn't a question, dipshit.

>> No.5092349
File: 14 KB, 200x259, buda.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5092349

>>5092278
>Define 'it works'?
It works in the sense of not inviting the suffering of having a wife et cetera into your life.

>If everyone was a monk we'd be antinatalists lol.
There's nothing wrong with that. It's pretty much not a possibility either though.

>Abstaining is not how u overcome suffering. The fire still burns and their aversion still causes them discomfort.
Abstaining doesn't solve the problem completely, but it sure is a step in the right direction. Just like not smoking is a right step in avoiding lung cancer. It would make no sense to say "well it doesn't work a 100% so I might as well smoke a pack a day and deal with it".

>Buddha said asceticism was extreme and wrong view...yet the monks are basically ascetic
It's ascetic by your contemporary Western standards. For the Buddha, abstaining completely and eating one begged meal a day was taking it easy. By their standards, asceticism was more like the extreme things you can see some sadhus doing. The Buddha almost starved himself for example before that and realised that wasn't the answer. There is no point in self-harm. But that doesn't mean you should just fuck around and live a completely comfortable ordinary life and call it the middle way just because you're not smoking crack.

>> No.5092371

>>5092281
Philokalia and hesycashm are fan-fiction creations. Strictly speaking christian bible is the canon and has virtually no meditation instruction just prayer words.

Meditation is part of the official Buddhist doctrine and is ubiquitous to the sutras. Not just fan fiction.

Its inaccurate to say meditation can be found in Christianity as much as in Buddhism. Strictly speaking their official cannons disagree.

>> No.5092382

>>5092349
The Buddha would've starved to death if rebirth didn't hold.
Buddhism is anti life.

Also suffering isnt permanent so it doesnt need a cure. It comes and goes like all things

>> No.5092394

>>5092131
>They are used as thought experiments more than anything
there are liberal christian sects that use this exact line of reasoning to dismiss the existence of an objective god

>> No.5092413

>>5092382
>Buddhism is anti life.
Agreed.
>Also suffering isnt permanent so it doesnt need a cure. It comes and goes like all things
From a Buddhist perspective, nothing is permanent so if some thing's impermanence would make combating it superfluous that would make Buddhism itself superfluous. Yet the Buddha still proscribed the four noble truths.

>> No.5092450

>>5092371

Spoken like a true ex-Protestant cockroach.

>> No.5092468

>>5092371
>Philokalia and hesycashm are fan-fiction creations.

This is silly trolling. I'm not a Christian, so there's no point.

>Strictly speaking christian bible is the canon and has virtually no meditation instruction just prayer words.

The presence of more or less scriptural instruction is irrelevant. The point is that both religions, like all religions, have well-established contemplative traditions whose adherents can cite scriptural justifications for their beliefs and practices.

>Meditation is part of the official Buddhist doctrine

There is no single "official Buddhist doctrine" just as there's no single "official Christian doctrine." Hesychasm is a part of official Orthodox doctrine.

>Its inaccurate to say meditation can be found in Christianity as much as in Buddhism.

1. It has never been my intention to have that argument. My argument was that Buddhism's contemplative traditions aren't exceptional; not that Buddhism is more or less inclined toward meditation than any other religion.

2. That depends entirely on how you choose to understand meditation in each religion.

>> No.5092542

>>5092468
>My argument was that Buddhism's contemplative traditions aren't exceptional

Ok.
But I was trying to argue that Buddhism's contemplative/meditative tradition is just more explicit and "deeper" in the official canon.

>> No.5092584

>>5092450
>Spoken like a true ex-Protestant cockroach.

why? huh

>> No.5094466

>>5090998
Finally, someone actually answered the question

>> No.5094469

>>5094466
w2c buddhism without baggage though?

>> No.5094473

>>5094469
Zen?

>> No.5094494

>>5091908
>Because Buddhism is much more developed and easier to get into than Epicurianism

You don't need to read anything besides the Principal Doctrines--and the Vatican Sayings if you want--to understand the tenets of Epicureanism. Buddhism is overcomplicated and it's turned into some pseudo-religion that involves numerous texts and interpretations.

>> No.5094520

>>5094494
>Buddhism is overcomplicated

What are you confused about?

>it's turned into some pseudo-religion

No, it always was a simple religion. The west just has a knee-jerk reaction to the word "religion" and anything that involves self-development and philosophy.

>that involves numerous texts and interpretations.

Which are straight forward and understandable.

>> No.5094523

Everyone is different hence different standpoints. Hedonists are simply easily amused.

>> No.5094783

>>5094469

>I want to take up this religion
>But not if I have to change my beliefs!

This is why people think Western Buddhists are dipshits.

>> No.5094808

>>5094783
>you must include this benevolent dragon demon or else it won't work!

>> No.5094863
File: 44 KB, 320x216, cafe[1].jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5094863

>>5094808
>I'll take the exotic mystique and the 2deep4u quotes, please. Hold the beliefs and obligations.

>> No.5095394

>>5094863
I actually don't want any of the mystique and 2deep4u, that's the point.

>> No.5095575

>>5089042
>epicurists
>without magical cultural baggage

You have to believe in gods as Epicurists but choosing to worship them is your own decision as Epicurists view that Gods are of no help.

If you are an epicurists you have to believe in some invisible soul bullshit.

Believes in invisible and unproven inherent souls within objects.

Why are epicureans so retarded?

>> No.5095947

>>5095575
epicurean notion of soul equals conciousness

>> No.5096097
File: 298 KB, 597x903, 1.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5096097

>>5095394
Definitely Zen. "The Three Pillars of Zen" is a good book to start with, quite informative and you get a feel for the concepts. It's also pragmatic with no bullshit like a lot of intro books (pretty much anything from Alan Watts for example). There's a lot of people talking down on Buddhism here, but I think that's because there's a lot of pop-buddhism and pop-zen in culture today. There's a lot of scientific evidence to back up meditation for, if nothing else, health purposes: concentration, anxiety, etc... I'm reading a pic related about the neurological basis behind Zen meditation (referred to as zazen), it's textbook size, I wouldn't start with it.

>> No.5096184

>>5095947
Keep trying to justify your cultural baggage.

>> No.5096201
File: 63 KB, 550x654, 8742dd9c322d4e28d5c591e8c020f97d.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5096201

>>5096184
If there is a soul, it evaporates with a decaying body. That's the atheist "afterlife" and the Buddhists nirvana

>> No.5096208

>>5089042
>implying hedonism isn't magical cultural baggage

>> No.5096225
File: 178 KB, 843x632, Low rising ataraxia.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5096225

>>5096208
Epicureanism is a type of hedonism that isn't baggage or culture specific, and it only feels magical

>> No.5096233

>>5089042
Because they're self-hating Whites.

>> No.5096234

>>5089042
Why do people want to be either? To put pleasure above pain is like putting yang above yin.

Be Heraclitean.

>> No.5096244

>>5096225
>low quality copy of a buddhist nirvana copied after visiting india
>not cultural baggage

Even the so called "non cultural baggage" is a cultural baggage.

>> No.5096307

>>5096244
>Be Hindu
>can't just die
>Must come back for more life
>Wait. Eternity is too long. Life is misery!
>Buddha to the rescue!

Naw dude.

>> No.5096371

>>5090913
It's an awesome name if you ask me

>> No.5096373

>>5092012
That's funny just recently started A guide to the good life: the ancient art of stoic joy

>> No.5097496

>>5096244
You're confusing Epicurus with Pyrrho.

>> No.5097505

>>5096373
pleb pop-philosphy, you'd be better off reading actual stoics.

>> No.5097551

>>5090938
Communists really do boggle the mind