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5049945 No.5049945 [Reply] [Original]

>tfw the epicurean approach has rendered life unproblematic

Enter the garden, friends. There's barley cake and water.

>> No.5049960

go read a fucking book

>> No.5049998

>sitting in a garden like some hippy while you can be a virtuous stoic

>> No.5050008

>>5049998
>being a broody loser when you could be enjoying hedonism

>> No.5050012

>>5050008
>living for pleasure
>satisfying in the long run

>> No.5050016

>>5050008
debasing yourself to an animal level for lots of money when you could feel the most human parts of life for literally no cost

>> No.5050032
File: 7 KB, 172x218, Democritus_bust.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5050032

>>5050012
To live badly is not to live badly, but to spend a long time dying. People are fools who yearn for long life without having pleasure in long life. People are fools who hate life and yet wish to live through fear of death. Men who shun death pursue it.

>> No.5050053

>>5049945
I'm going to drop some knowledge in this thread after I finish reading the necessary Wikipedia articles.

>> No.5050064

>>5050016
>debasing yourself to an animal level for lots of money
Where doth your idea of Epicureanism come from?

>> No.5050075

Pleasure =/= virtue

>> No.5050088

>>5050075
You're right. Pleasure is an experience accessible to all and everyone will know it when they experience it. Virtue, on the other hand, is a spook.

>> No.5050142

>>5049945
>rendered life unproblematic

youve got it, that is the goal. the garden is not the path that leads to it.

>> No.5050158

>>5050075
Not all pleasures are virtues, but that doesn't mean that virtue isn't or cannot be a pleasure.

>> No.5050244

>>5050008
>thinking happiness is dependent upon externals.

>> No.5050250
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5050250

>>5050088
>spook
Explain.

>> No.5050282

>>5050142
>the garden is not the path that leads to it.
Why would you say so?

>> No.5050288

>>5050250
While pleasure is a recognisable and familiar state, virtue is an empty buzzword with a thousand arbitrary definitions that more often than not contradict each other.

>> No.5050352

>>5050282
cause op is implying that Epicurus can take anyone to the garden, while the point is rather that everyone should find its own way, Epicurus being just one of them, perfectly suited for some, but just one among hundreds.

>> No.5050422

>>5050075
What is virtue?

If not the-good, then you're wrong, because pleasure is very much a part of the-good.

>> No.5050437

>>5050288


observe the nominalist in his natural habitat; blind and insensitive to any form of distinction or cohesion

>if i cant tell the difference, that means theres no difference!

>> No.5050465

>>5049945
Not all of us have wealthy patrons sending us silver and cheese. You would probably also enjoy thoreau.

>> No.5050469

>>5050422
A virtue is a moral characteristic of the individual, judged by the society. An individuals pleasure, from the perspective of a society, is commonly considered selfish.

This is entirely objective, but I am sure you know that

>> No.5050470

>>5050437
Define virtue.

>> No.5050478

>>5050465
>not having the state as patron and receiving a monthly stipend

More cheese than you can eat, mate.

>> No.5050492

>>5050465
Maybe it isn't the cheese that we are after, but the gratuity of fortune smiling upon us as we salaciously take the cheese off the Joycean plate of doom.

>> No.5050493

>>5050478
>Being reliant on the whims of a rapidly decaying welfare state

Kind of erodes the whole independence and being free from politics which Big E was all about.

>> No.5050510

>>5050492
Was that turgid prose really necessary or even helpful?

>> No.5050516

That fuvking feel when you will never have glorious Greek locks of hair curse my retarded Scottish genetics

>> No.5050550

>>5050510
butterfly is birdshit

>> No.5050561

>>5050012
>long run
>human lifespan
>not thinking that you could die at anytime

>> No.5050603

>>5050561
this is very valid.

and if you start being unable to feel pleasure like you used to; just kill yourself

Die young, or die old. Those are your only options in this world

>> No.5050704
File: 44 KB, 500x327, Dead men-daisies.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5050704

>>5050492
Oh c'mon.
I cut-chu bitch.

>>5050510
It was only character assassination.

>> No.5050721

>>5050470


a quality conducive to a given telos.

>> No.5050780

>>5050493
The only way the welfare state will fall is all out war, and then the working man is fucked as well. Other than that, being a welfare recipient is one of the most stable forms of income there are.

>> No.5050793

>>5050721
Now define stoic virtue.

>> No.5050812

>>5049945
You are almost there, dear friend.

However, it is not only our desires which bring us suffering, but our judgements and opinions as well.

>> No.5050825

>>5049945
Is Epicurus the greatest man that has ever lived?

>> No.5050831
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5050831

>>5050793


why should i care about stoics.

>> No.5050837

>>5050603
What about middle aged?

>> No.5050838

>>5050812
This is too much of a blanket statement.

>> No.5050840

>>5050838
Why do you say that?

>> No.5050841

>>5050825
He's like a Western Buddha, deliciously free of supernatural baggage and perfectly compatible with the current state of science.

>> No.5050843

>>5050825

Epicurus was the greatest of the Hellestic era of philosophers.

The stoics were a bunch of metaphysics arguing fags about what "true nature" was and the scepticists too busy arguing semantics and refusing everything to enjoy life.

>> No.5050847

>>5050843
What about the Cynics and Cyrenaics?

>> No.5050850

>>5050088
>>5050288
In that case the word "spook" is a spook

>> No.5050852

>>5050843
>scepticists too busy arguing semantics and refusing everything to enjoy life.

You should have bothered staying awake in Ancient.

>> No.5050854

I haven't read all the genius that makes up this thread but people around here seem to confuse the 'hedonism' of a greek with the hedonism of a modern-day neet.

Epicurus lived off bread for shits sake; he wasn't jerking it to trannys.

>> No.5050862

>>5050088
>>5050288
No, pleasure is not recognizable, familiar, or universal. What a hopelessly bourgeois sentiment.

Your idea of pleasure is equally contradictory as that of virtue. Consider the masochist. Consider the victim of crippling depression. Consider the ecstatic heroin addict on her last dose. Consider the delusional, happy suicide.

>> No.5050869

>>5050847
And other hedonist offshoot schools?
Well, not as popular.

>> No.5050908

i read the vatican sayings. i don't see how they're relevant or useful in any sense.

>> No.5050980

>>5050837
have grey hair? you're old

>> No.5050992

>>5049945
Do you even read cicero ?

>> No.5050995

>>5050854
>implying he wouldn't if he could

>> No.5051007

>>5050992
I don't read.

>> No.5051008

>>5049945
if you take the epicurean approach why don't you just kill yourself?

>> No.5051013

>>5050516
Socrates was bald, no worries

>> No.5051015

>>5051013
Socrates was a rhetorical character noob

>> No.5051028

>>5051015
His philosophy is pretty much the basis of the average 4chaner, everyone's wrong about everything and ur all dumb, even me

>> No.5051051

>>5050780
Which country are you from because most in the west seem to be reducing payments or at the very least making them more arduous to acquire

>> No.5051058

>>5050995
Actually he wouldn't given that one of his says was that one shouldnt do something in private that they would be embarrassed to do publicly.

>> No.5051072

>>5049945
Enjoy the sixth circle of hell, heretic!

>> No.5051097

>>5051072
>Thinking Epicurus and his school of thought is a heresy rather than heathenry.

>Being this shamefully ignorant.

>> No.5051129

>>5051007
Read it.
A good roman thinker

>> No.5051134

>>5051015
Do you even the apology of socrates by hus student plato ?

>> No.5051136

>>5051097
Is just an ignorant, just like us.

>> No.5051142

>>5051134
Read ?

>> No.5051161
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5051161

>not living with the dogs, shunning society

>> No.5051171
File: 232 KB, 834x1285, My fuuuuucking life.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5051171

>>5051161

Muh fellow searcher

>> No.5051182

>>5051161
>Spawning one of the most arrogant and short lived of the classic philosophical schools

>> No.5051586

>>5051058
>implying he wouldn't do it in public if he could

>> No.5051634

Wouldn't Nietzsche's coming of the last men be the approve rebuttal to epicureanism?

>> No.5051644

>>5050854
That's because he was more into avoiding suffering than obtaining pleasure.

>> No.5051662

>>5051634
On second thought, Freud's civilization and discontent throws epicurean ataxia and avoidance of pain out the window

>> No.5051703

>>5050862
Wrong, fag.
Pleasure differs for different people but all know when they experience pleasure.

Virtue differs for different people but people do not always know when or what is virtuous.

>> No.5051985

>>5050854
Actually, modern-day NEETs often live pretty Epicurean lifestyles. They're satisfied with a meagre income and enjoy themselves mostly with simple pleasures that don't cost a whole lot.

Of course Epicurus would advice against jerking it to any porn because pornography is detrimental to one's mental health.

>> No.5051996

>>5051008
Because according to the Epicurean approach, a life free from worry and pain is itself a pleasure, not merely neutral.

>>5051182
>short lived
I wouldn't consider eight to nine hundred years short lived. And that's just 'formal' Cynicism, its influence went well beyond that.

>> No.5052517

>>5051985
I didn't masturbate til 21, even having had sex in earlier years. Now I jack it almost daily and I don't see much gain.

Those Catholics are on to something.

>> No.5052569

>>5051703
to whom is being temperate not a virtue? What of generosity, kindness?

>> No.5053165

>>5052517
Lessening your chance of cancer seems like a nice gain. There is nothing wrong with masturbation. Pornography is the culprit.

>> No.5053307

>>5050854
I think people in this thread confuse Epicureanism with hedonism, where as it's more concerned with simply decreasing the amount of pain one can experience in life. Pleasure is simply a byproduct of avoiding pain, but Epicureans I don't think are concerned only with attaining pleasure.
But they are all a bunch of content wusses.

>> No.5053337

>>5049945
>>5049998
>not the Horace's golden mean

>> No.5053400

>>5053307
>But they are all a bunch of content wusses.
As opposed to unhappy bad asses? Doesn't sound very enticing.

>> No.5053784

>>5053400
Content wusses tend not to change the world much (with the few exceptions mentioned in this thread)
Unhappy bad asses always change the world.

>> No.5053997

>>5053784
But Epicureans are the change they want to see in the world.