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/lit/ - Literature

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5044029 No.5044029 [Reply] [Original]

All I've read of the fantasy genre besides LOTR is ASOIAF and The Gentleman Bastards. I'd like to read the other two or three worthwhile series in the genre, but I don't know what they are. Is pic related worth the read? The characters are supposedly one dimensional, and I'm not sure I can push through ten books for worldbuilding alone.

>> No.5044200

Nah, it's actually good if you like the genre

>> No.5044951

>>5044029
Read The Kingkiller Chronicle
Read Mistborn Trilogy

>> No.5044969

If you want something more literary then I suggest Gene Wolfe's Book of the New Sun. If you want something that's easier to read but with a level of depth and satire to it then The Kingkiller Chronicles are also a good read.
If you want to laugh your head off and enjoy what is basically a better written version of ASOIAF then I suggest First Law trilogy.

>> No.5045084

Read children of hurin
Read silmarillion

>> No.5045094

What do you want out of fantasy? What do you like and dislike about the things you've read?

>> No.5045181

>>5044029
Erikson uses language in a very beautiful and skillful way, and his world is so enormous that there's always something new to learn. I'd strongly recommend that you read the first one at least.

If it doesn't float your boat, try Abercrombie's The Blade Itself or give Wheel of Time a shot.

>>5044951
Don't do this unless you're a child.

>> No.5045212
File: 39 KB, 766x390, Broken-Empire.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5045212

Read the Broken Empire trilogy. Unless you absolutely need the protagonist of your fiction to be "likeable." Jorg Ancrath is evil as shit, but probably the most relateble antihero in any fantasy novel I've read to date.

Mawk Lawrance's new book Prince of Fools is also supposedly really good, but I haven't gotten to it yet. I second Book Of The New Sun though.

>> No.5045398

>>5045181
Kingkiller is not childish. Mistborn though...

>> No.5045400

I've had my eye on this one, but I need to know if the prose passes muster. I just slogged through WoT and I'm not picking up another series where the words themselves aren't at least pleasant.

>> No.5045416

The First Law trilogy by Joe Abercrombie, it's worth sticking with it to the end even if you don't like it at first and the three books that come after that are brilliant.

>> No.5045422

>>5045400
I personally think the prose is the only part of Malazan that passes muster. The characters are bland or uninteresting and the plot not at all engaging.

>> No.5045427

>>5045212

>I'm angry, that makes me angry.

>> No.5045441
File: 30 KB, 449x319, 1300404339516.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5045441

>>5045416
>Red Country

>> No.5045842

>>5044969
Book of the New Sun seems like what I'll read next. My opinion on ASOIAF is pretty far from the board consensus on it, but a darkly comedic fantasy series wit irredeemable dirtball characters seems entertaining.

>> No.5045880

>>5044029

I tried, but Gardens of the Moon turned me off immediately; most senseless piece of shit I've ever read. I hear it gets better after that, but that shit read like fan-fiction/self-published trite, I was almost embarrassed for the author.

>> No.5045885 [DELETED] 

>>5045181
>Erikson uses language in a very beautiful and skillful way,

you've never read anything other than fantasy have you? i love fantasy, but Erikson is trash.

>> No.5045918

>>5044029
Fuckin so glad someone else loves the Gentleman Bastard series. I used to read Terry Goodkinds Sword Of Truth series, it was a good starter into fantasy for a young person.
R.A. Salvatore and the Drizzt series is Amazing, if you played any of the games involving him and were interested in his backstory it makes it more amazing.

if you want books that are interesting and worth the read, go for R.A Salvatore. Hes a great author.

>> No.5046173

>>5045212
Recommend this and First Law Series.

Mark Lawrence doesn't get enough love on /lit/

>> No.5046186

>>5044951
>Read Mistborn Trilogy

Stop that.

>> No.5046277

>>5045212
That is the goddamn sexiest covers/title of a trilogy ever.

>> No.5046315

>>5044029
Gardens of the Moon can be tough to take in. It just throws you into the middle of some insanely complex world in the middle of a war campaign and doesn't really spell much out for you. It's a good book, as long as you understand you accept that you'll be confused for the first 90% of it, no matter how much you pay attention.

That said, the series is fantastic and from book 2 and onward is one hell of a ride. The best advice I can give is don't approach it as a a novel but as a historical chronicle of events. There's a lot going on all at once. They are all really complex, but the first book is the most overwhelming really. After that Erikson's writing and storytelling greatly improves. He wrote Gardens of the Moon like 8 years before it found a publisher, and he didn't really start on the rest until after the first was published. He improved a lot in those 8 years.

If you finish GotM but feel like you don't really want to continue, read book 2 at least before dropping it. Chances are you'll get hooked with 2.

>> No.5046322

>>5045400
>I just slogged through WoT

Oh god, WoT. I mananged to get through the first book, but I'm halfway through the second book and don't think I have the patience for anymore. There is some interesting shit going on, but it just bores the fuck out of me. I can't imagine reading all 12 books...

>> No.5046326

>>5046322
>12

Have i got news for you

>> No.5046486

>>5046322
The first two books are quite entertaining too, compared to 5-10. Quit now.

>> No.5046499

>>5044951
I actually enjoy some Sanderson but for the life of me I can't understand why people like the Mistborn Trilogy.

The Stormlight Archive is much much so fucking much better, so far.

>> No.5046527

>>5045427

>I'm reading the simulation of the thought process of a sociopathic thirteen year old and getting angry about the edgelord things that he thinks, that makes me angry.

>> No.5046757

>>5046486
I probably will. I'll at the very least finish 2, even if I have to force myself through it, but I doubt I'll touch any more of the series. Which is a shame, since I was really looking forward to sinking into a really long 10+ book fantasy series. Most of them always seem to suffer from the same problem of having at least half the books be shit. I was thinking of finally reading ASOIAF since I started watching the show and it got me interested in the books, but I have a feeling he'll be dead before he ever wraps it up, and I remember reading how he doesn't want anyone else to try and finish the series if anything happened to him.

Already read Malazan, tried Sword of Truth but it was so bad, and I hear the Shannara books are supposed to be pretty bad Tolkien knockoffs.

I stumbled across this list the other day, and it has some interesting series I've never heard of before I might check out. A lot of them seem to be really cheesy or pulpy fantasy, but I'm kind of a sucker for that
>http://bookwraiths.com/2013/08/25/top-21-longest-fantasy-series/

The Deverry Cycle in particular caught my eye, anyone read it? Also how are the Riftwar books?

>> No.5046855

>>5046499
The first book is pretty neat. Nice and atmospheric with a decent la resistance caper plot against an oppressive society. It just falls apart after that.

>> No.5047714

Bumping till I get on my Pc and post my updated list.

>> No.5047876

>>5046757
Deverry cycle started off pretty good, but it later devolved into retard dragon shit.

Riftwar, read everything up to the end of the serpentwar saga (Shards of a broken crown), then if you like the Count of Monte Cristo, read the next three as well, but stop after that. It's just not worth it.

Magician, The Serpentwar quartet and the coauthored Empire Series are the best points of the series.

>> No.5047905

So I've been slowly reading Malazan a chapter a day (still on the first book). How long's this shit going to take?

>> No.5047952

>>5047905
6 years.

>> No.5047976

>>5047952
I don't believe you.

>> No.5048055

The first book in the Malazan series is,frankly, bad. The rest are very,very good and only get better. I've only read up to "toll the hounds"

>> No.5048169

>>5048055
Pretty much this. The first book, I find, is better if you decide to re-read it after you're more heavily invested in the series. Didn't care for Gardens much, but Deadhouse Gates got me hooked. After I got caught up to the series, with Dust of Dreams, I decided to go back and re-read the whole thing before Crippled God came out. Found I enjoyed Gardens much more and found some stuff I didn't notice the first time through.

Also there are a few shorter novellas, and half a dozen books by Ian Cameron Esslemont set in the same setting. Those are worth reading too. Just read them all in the order they were published, don't follow some rabid fan's reading order.

>> No.5048670

What is wrong with the Mistborn trilogy? I was going to pick it up but seems like you guys dont like it too much.

>> No.5048712

>>5048670
I second this question. I'm looking into magical systems and from what little I've read about Mistborn, it seems pretty cool in that regard. Why does it suck?

>> No.5048767

What is it with all this shit about "magical systems" as if that was a criteria for literary quality? this is just a recent thing that people started even talking about this shit how good a "magic system" of one series was as opposed to the other. look for plot and themes and characters, not for fucking "magical systems" you fags.

aside from that: yes, Ericksons characters oftend tend to be very flat, which makes a startling contrasts to the depth of the world they inhabit. it is a good read anyway if you don't expect character depth like ASOIAF.
if you care more about characters and less about world building, Abercrombie is the go-to guy.
If you want deep philosophical stuff, check out Wolfe and/or LeGuin.
Wheel of Time has a lot of flaws but it gets too much shit. Definitely worth a look.

Anyone here ever read Riftwar by .. the guy whose name escapes me at the moment? Is it good?

>> No.5048773

>>5048767

Feist? Garbage, don't bother.

>> No.5048781

How about Terry Brooks? I keep hearing LoTR ripoff but LoTR wasnt so bad right?

>> No.5048817
File: 20 KB, 155x249, Magician.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5048817

>>5048781

It starts off like an 80's fantasy movie but it gets better. I've only read the Riftwar saga because I heard it turns to shit afterwards. I'll get around to checking it out eventually though.

>> No.5048964

>>5048767
>What is it with all this shit about "magical systems" as if that was a criteria for literary quality? t
It's not a criteria but it's fun to nerd out about magic systems.

I mean how inaccurately is the One Power named in WoT? It's the "One" Power but you also have Perrin's wolf power, the dream world, that one guy's smelling power, the True Power, Min's visions, whatever power the snakes and foxes have, Mordeth's hatepower, and probably others I'm forgetting?

Compare this with, say, Rothfuss's power of naming which actually speaks to the themes of his novels (storytelling and the extent to which we use stories to approach/delude ourselves about the core nature of a person/thing) and you can see that you're cheating yourself by having a poorly thought out magic system like Jordans's.

>> No.5049017

I'm not who the question was aimed at, but given my answers, what would you suggest me?
>>5045094
>What do you want out of fantasy?
A well-built sensible world, good characters, and a plot about war and politics. No magic (most authors can't handle it), don't care about races, no world-saving heroes or adventuring parties.

>What do you like and dislike about the things you've read?
Haven't read much fantasy, aside from kiddie stuff like Forgotten Realms, but of what I read:
ASOIAF: liked the characters, Westeros politics; disliked the coldwalkers of whatever, the dragons, lack of depth in world-building.
The First Law: hated it, bad world-building, world-saving heroes, I especially hated the characters the only good part was the war in the north.

What would yo usuggest me /lit/?

>> No.5049072
File: 103 KB, 261x266, 1400695548519.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5049072

>>5048767

>Abercrombie
>if you care about characters
>my leg hurts
>the room is too bright
>being a cripple ain't easy
>why do I do it
>life is not fair
>you have to be realistic
>I have to pee
>muh vengeance
>I'm, like, so ded inside, vengeance 4lyf
>people want to be ruled, fuck democracy, I'm a big magus FOR YOU, do you feel in charge, son of whore?
>le 'ends justify the means' speech.txt from antagonist
>le 'ends justify the means' speech v2.0.txt from protagonist
>such edgy
>so moral grey
>such deep characters
>wow

pls be trolling

>> No.5049357

>>5049072
you are aware that you could describe any character ever with such an extremely simplifying way - that does not mean the character is flat.

Hamlet
>muh incestous feelings
>why is he fucking my mom
>cut my life into pieces, this is my last resort

The Road
>okay okay okay okay okay
>muh carry the fire
>so grey! - the landscape AND morally *mindblown*

Slaughterhouse 5
>so it goes
>po-tee-weet
>war is bad
>lolsorandumb

do you think any of this is valid criticism? no? me neither.

>> No.5049756

>>5048817
The Serpentwar Quartet is great.

>> No.5049767

>>5048781
Brooks doesn't have an original idea. The first trilogy/quartet is a fine wee LOTR rip-off, then every single story after that is a retread of the same story-line *(magical items are lost "again", have to be found by an heir "again")

>> No.5050456
File: 128 KB, 1878x614, Muh New List.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5050456

>>5047714
Muh New List. Pic related check Brent Weeks, Trudi Canavan, Jim Butcher etc, etc.

>> No.5050612

>>5050456
>Fucking Karen Miller
>1000+ pages of build up
>Summarizes the climax in two chapters
>Every fucking book too

>Jude Fisher's Fools Gold ending
>I've about had it with modern female fantasy writers.

>> No.5050706

>>5050612
So I am not the only one disappointed then.

Captcha
>taaakin ride
>taken for a ride

Yes

>> No.5050952

>>5050456
>reading ASoIaF before it's finished

Don't be a retard. Wait until it's finished. GRRM is most likely going to die before finishing, and he's already been a real faggot about letting other writers take over if he doesn't finish.

>> No.5050954

>>5050952
I read all the current books already.

>> No.5051273

Malazan is good, but if you read the ebooks be prepared for constant typos and error, and generally poor formatting. I don't know why there are no good ebook copies of these books, it's really bizarre.

>> No.5051292

>>5049357
it is a valid criticism if characters are like that for all the fucking 3500 pages and get zero development, making the story very predictive. And the extent of their complexity are all those repetitive italicized thoughts which should have been heavily edited out because they hardly add anything to the story.

>> No.5051298

>>5051292
*making the story predictable

I'm still too mad I didn't stop after book 2 when everyone's getting rick-rolled

>> No.5051377

>>5050952
>he's already been a real faggot about letting other writers take over
That's what they all say, but whoever is left in charge of the estate sees how much money is to be made and that flies right out the window.

>> No.5051392

Sorry if I am repeating a suggestion, but give Terry Goodkind's "Sword of Truth" series a shot. It's the books they based "The Legend of the Seeker" on a few years back. Already over 10-11 books now (each 500-700 pages), so enough to occupy even readers like me who rarely start a book if there aren't already a couple sequels out to fall right into. All in all, one of my fav series and one I gladly re-read if I run out of new stuff.

>> No.5051534

>>5051292
>zero development
>predictive story

you are making this shit up, mate.

>> No.5051648

china mieville is alright

>> No.5051680

Erikson is shit.

>> No.5052052

>>5051377
He already told the directors for the show how the series was going to end, probably got some paperwork up too. If some family member tries to mess up HBO making billions, by taking away bookfags from watching the show to see how it allp ended because they want to publish it or some shit expect the lawsuit of the decade.

>> No.5052054

>>5051392
I love Shannananahahnnanaahaaahara

>> No.5052069

Any fantasy that isn't about saving or at otherwise affecting the world?

>> No.5052080

>>5052052
My God, any studio exec with brains would bump him off with sodium azide and reap the massive upswing of viewers (and profits) as all the bookfags have no choice but to tune in to see how it ends.

>> No.5052083

>>5051534

If you're talking about the First Law trilogy, then yes, there is no development. That is one of the main themes of the story. People don't change, you can't run from your past, etc. Everyone at the end of the First Law is exactly who they were at the beginning. Unless they died.

>> No.5052408
File: 174 KB, 308x450, conan[1].jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5052408

>>5052069
The entire sword and sorcery sub-genre. Too bad it's a dead genre and the definition has been so skewed by retards who don't know what their talking about that Game of Thrones is on every damn sword and sorcery list out there.

>> No.5052421

>>5044951
Kingkiller is generic shit.
Mistborn is essential for the Cosmere meta. Very good stuff.

>> No.5053053

>>5052083
>there is no development. That is one of the main themes of the story. People don't change, you can't run from your past
exactly
and that's why it fails
it fails to fulfill its purpose of an escapist and entertaining piece of genre fiction
if I wanted anticlimactic and repetitive shit like that there's always real life

>> No.5053260

>>5050456
Would you recommend any of the female authors books on that list? Don't think I've ever read fantasy from a woman.

>> No.5053445

>>5053260
>Trudi Canavan
Also Anne Bishop
Faith Hunter
Kim Harrison(at least until she goes full shoe on head retarded and turns the series into romance shit)
Ursula k Le Guin
N. K Jemisin

Can't recommend the rest unless you specifically want romance shit. The problem with these female Authors is that they start their books great with good plots and world building, then throws all of that out the window for some retarded woman logic romance shit.

>> No.5053471

Lord Dunsany
Robert E. Howard
Fritz Leiber
C.L. Moore
Leigh Brackett
Poul Anderson
Ursula k. Leguin
M. John Harrison
Tim Powers
Marion Zimmer Bradley

>> No.5053532

>>5053445
I will check them out, thanks for the recs.

>> No.5054635

>>5052421
>Kingkiller is generic
>Mistborn isn't

Jesus christ, justify this. Thematically, structurally, tonally, Kingkiller is one of the least generic fantasies I've ever read.

>> No.5054723

>>5052421
LOLOL they both are generic as they come.

>>protip: anything by Terry Brooks or Brandon Sanderson is garbage

>> No.5054730

>>5054723
>anything by Terry Brooks or Brandon Sanderson is garbage
>comparing Brooks to Sanderson
Get your whore mouth out of here.

>> No.5055230

>>5054730
The funny part is we honestly don't know which you are indignant about.

The general consensus among those over 14 is that both are pretty bad. Sanderson has the distinct honour of ruining a fairly respected series whereas Brooks is notable for stealing plots from every other series. Both are masters of their trades.

>> No.5055238

>>5053260
One of my favorite fantasy writers is Patricia McKillip, she's absolutely fantastic. Lois McMaster Bujold is very decent as well. People talk up Robin Hobbs but I've never liked her, personally.

>>5055230
>>5054730
>>5054723
As somebody who doesn't carry any water for either writer, I would say that Sanderson is marginally better than Brooks, but I'd rather read a book by Brooks any day.

>> No.5055252

>>5055238
Sanderson has better ideas but is a terrible writer, conversely Brooks is an adequate author but can't think.

>> No.5055264

>>5055252
I hate Sanderson's ideas (mostly because I don't give a shit about pseudoscientifically rigorous magic-system-building) but I think he's a decent writer, just in a way that I happen to strongly dislike. And I suppose that's not actually his fault.

Whereas Terry Brooks is dull and unoriginal, but in a way that's basically unobjectionable. He's comfort food. He's Saltines, basically.

>> No.5055291

>>5055264
Yeah, I get that. I read Elantris and The Way of Kings (because fucking everyone hyped it). I disliked both because of his style and method of story telling. He does turn out material like a motherfucker though.

>> No.5056052

I'm sorry but do they call it a Brooks Avalanche? No, they call it a fucking SANDERSON AVALANCHE because only one of those guys is the third act master.

Stephenson pwns them both though.

>> No.5056204

>there are people in this thread who don't know about Adonalsium

>>5054635
Kvothe is one of the biggest Gary Stus I have ever read about in fiction. I honestly have no idea how in the world you can claim to think he is not a terribly generic protag, anon.

>> No.5056536

>>5056052
People honestly enjoy Sanderson's conclusions? They honestly feel so forced and out of place (see Elantris) - nearing deus ex machina.

Neal Stephenson?

>> No.5056685

>>5056204
I've been saying this to you NOTW haters for years, the story is not told by a narrator, it is told by Kvothe as a "life history". Do you thing all the things in history books went down the way they said it did? Are you one of those fags who romanticides history and wishes for the "good ole days" because a book told you x and y happened?

Kvothe is telling the story as best as he could remember from HIS POV, their is no omnipresent narrator in the sky recording everything as it happens, exactly how it happened.

>> No.5056716

>>5056685
So? It's Harry Potter/Codex Alera/Tales Of Earthsea/ for the school part, and then Gentleman bastards/Codex Alera/Night Angel/Earthsea once he's out of school

>>5054635
It's generic as fuck if you've read any amount of fantasy. I'm not saying it's bad, but it's not the high art that a lot of people claim.

>> No.5056717

Why all the Sanderson hate? Mistborn is pretty light but at least it's entertaining and the female protagonist isn't complete shit. (Like most females in Sci-Fi / Fantasy)

The Stormlight Archive is shaping to be a really good series too.

>> No.5056775

>>5056717
SA is going to be fucking crazy since the entire plot is going to likely be turned upside down during the second half.
And we going to Braize sometime, boys.

>mfw official calculations have been made to figure out how fast Kaladin needs to be accelerating in order to break orbit

>> No.5056804

Once I finish ASOIAF (im on clash of kings) would the powder mage trilogy be good to start?

also looking at >>5045212

>> No.5056930

>>5056804
Nobody can finish ASOIAF since GRRM is going to be dead long before he even starts the last book.

>> No.5057223

>>5056717
This post right here. TWoK wasn't all that easy to get into (mostly because of all the world building) but once it got it's hooks in me I loved every second of it.

>>5056775
I really liked Kaladin. He's a bit of a cunt sometimes but at least he always stays true to his beliefs/hates

>> No.5057952

>>5056716
Yes each of the narrative elements can be traced to other works (just as all the narrative elements in the works you cite in turn have their basis elsewhere), who cares?

What this guy pointed out >>5056685 has far more interesting ramifications on the book's central conflict than it normally would in a more "generic" fantasy. Consider how the world's magic system pertains to truth and one's ability to understand the true nature of something (and therefore control it) and how horrified Kvothe is when eg Denna gives a historical account different from his own. It's not something that approaches Great Literature or anything but it's a damn sight more sophisticated than any of the works you named in your post.

Also consider the way he creates tension with the structural technique of having the episodic nature of the first book interrupted/eroded by the extended confrontation with the dragon thing. It's a neat trick and I can't think of another fantasy that uses it (maybe McDonald's Desolation Road?).

>> No.5057994

>>5048712

>picking your fantasy based on it's magic systems

ew, it's not DnD man

>> No.5058019

>>5057994
For me the appeal of Sanderson lies in his fluidity as a storyteller; the fact that you get a guaranteed cohesive magic system is a nice bonus only because you don't have to be annoyed by a poorly thought out or contradictory one.

>> No.5058047

>>5052083
this is definitely not true for Jezal and arguably not true for a few of the others

>> No.5058069

>>5048712
>>5048670
The characters have no...character. They all quip and joke and pontificate and worry and fall in love, and all of it feels artificial, like stage actors going off of prompts from a director.

>> No.5058099

>>5056717
>and the female protagonist isn't complete shit

Definitely an improvement over Elantris in that regard.

>> No.5058134
File: 341 KB, 500x314, BlsBiYqCcAAn4Cw.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5058134

>>5049017
Cop Robin Hobb - Assassin's Apprentice, simple enough world, good amount of intrigue, the characters aren't all amazing but you'll get so connected to the lead that you wont care. There is magic but I believe is done subtly, more psychic abilities than throwing fireballs

>> No.5058402

Two of my favourite series seem to be unmentioned, which are Bakker's Prince of Nothing and Donaldson's Chronicles of Thomas Covenant (1st and 2nd chrons, not so much the 3rd)

Some others that I didn't notice are Kearney's Monarchies of God, Parker's almost everything, Jones's Sword of Shadows, Williams's Memory, Sorrow and Thorn, Abraham's Long Price, May's Pliocene Exiles ("science fantasy" if you subscribe to that definition), Vance's Lyonesse... There's still plenty of stuff to read.

>> No.5058546

>>5058402
>Two of my favourite series seem to be unmentioned
>Donaldson's Chronicles of Thomas Covenant
It's unmentioned for a reason. The Unbeliever was SHIT I SWEAR IF I COULD GET THE NAME OF THE ANON WHO SUGGESTED THAT BOOK TO ME I WOULD STRANGLE HIM FOR WASTING SO MUCH OF MY TIME.

>> No.5058556

>>5058546
Whats so bad about it? (different anon here)

>> No.5058616

>>5058546
Yes, I've seen you(?) raving about it. To each his own.

>> No.5058619

>>5058556
He just moans that he has Lepersy and "don't touch me" and "my life is over". It was super repetitive and the story was shit.

This review was the shortest and closest to how I felt about this book from the ones I read on goodreads.

" Horrendously BORING

Couldn't get around to enjoying the book, the story moved at a snail pace and screaming LEPER when you saw things were looking up since the first village was tiresome. The writer also needed to use erect and ejaculate more(if you read the book you would know this is sarcasm).

The ending tried to "spice" things up, too little too late everyone was annoying.

To think some people actually think that [the rape scene in here is better/more gruesome than in prince of thorns is laughable (hide spoiler)].

Book was nothing but a yawn fest... i will browse through book 2 and 3... if they are not to my liking i will have my first two "DNF"(Did Not Finish) for the year and will know not to touch anything Stephen "

>> No.5058656

>>5058546
Oh, hey, that was me. My bad.

>> No.5058834

>>5057223
I fully expect him to become Honor's champion in the fight against Odium. He is the best Windrunner.

>>5057952
>tension
That was a huge chunk of book devoted to "I need to slay this dragon because this girl makes me hard and I need to impress her because I am a young man". It was completely dull in every aspect.

>>5058019
The magic systems are different on each planet too but if you know what you're doing, you can use multiple magics on the same planet, and in general.

>> No.5058978

>>5058834
>"I need to slay this dragon because this girl makes me hard and I need to impress her because I am a young man"
Right, the tension also comes from watching him jeopardize his education to pursue, on the one hand, his foolish romantic notions (as you point out) and on the other his obsession with avenging his parents' death (as you seem to have forgotten). But that's really not what I was talking about if you go back and re-read my post

He's like chapter 4 of Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man. The juxtaposition between his youthful arrogance and his aged cynicism as he reflects back on this shit should make it clear enough for you that you're not supposed to admire young Kvothe and particularly not his devotion to this rather frightening and damaged young woman.

>> No.5059001

Not OP, but I wanted to make a thread like this.

I want to read something with with adventure, romance, action, and lots and lots of pages.

I've read: WoT, First Law, Sword of Sorrows series, Gentleman Bastards, Liveship Traders, Mistborn, and assorted dimestore trash just to stay interested. I'd like something really big to sink my teeth into.

>> No.5059055

>>5059001
Black Company, maybe. Not a lot of romance but it's there.

>> No.5059062

>>5059001
Look at >>5050456
Might bump tomorrow with specific books, until then search the books in the pic.

>> No.5059313

http://bestfantasybooks.com/top25-fantasy-books.php

It's a good list because he is quite specific about what he likes about a given series, and groups them according to "similar to ASOIAF" or "similar to The Blade Itself". Useful if uncontroversial.

>> No.5059354

>>5058099

I really like the female characters in SA too. They're not one dimensional or constantly thinking about sucking dick.

>> No.5059537

>>5059001
Have you read ASOIAF? Kinda unoriginal as a recommendation, but it's a good series of books once you cut through the commercial HBO media blitz and the shitty polemics of the /lit/.

>> No.5059572

>>5059001
You read Liveship Traders and not the Farseer trilogy? Those three books are far and away the best thing Robin Hobbs wrote.

>> No.5059596

>>5059572
Liveship Traders kind of soured me on everything Hobbs wrote because I hated the third book so much.

I honestly can't think back on it without just getting angry. Can't help it.

>> No.5059606

>>5059537
I did read them, but I don't like books that jump around in narrative that much. I like to stick with a single character or a group of characters.

>> No.5060213

>>5058978
>>5057952
Earthsea does it all the same and better, only difference is the unreliable narrator part. But that by itself just isn't enough.

>> No.5060254

>>5060213
You're largely ignoring the discussion at hand and spamming your rather undeveloped opinions. If you have anything interesting to say I'll be watching.

>> No.5060623

>>5046315
This. Book 2. God damn. I mean... god damn.

Gardens of the Moon is a nice read, but things don't make sense. It's not until you come back to it that you realise how important the events going on even are. Book 2 is spectacular though.

I wish he didn't announce the Karsa Trilogy without any foreseen release date. I'm too hyped to wait so many years for them all...

>> No.5060672
File: 780 KB, 800x1181, Blood_of_Elves_UK.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5060672

The Witcher?

>> No.5060715

Does the Wheel of Time series get legitimately boring later in the series or is it "boring" in the same way people called the Grapes of Wrath/Crime+Punishment boring?

>> No.5060733

>>5060715
The ninth book is legitimately boring for most of it, as are large swathes of the tenth and eleventh.

>> No.5060739
File: 60 KB, 508x776, Prince-of-Thorns.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5060739

Have anyone read the Prince of Thorns series? My brother bought the two first books and haven't touched them yet, so i wanted to give them a try.

>> No.5060801

>>5060715
As the series progressed, RJ introduced lots of new point of views into the series at the same time as the books got shorter, so the number of meaningful events decreased per book. To add to that, if one point of view advanced too much into the plotline that pov could disappear for a whole book so the others could catch up.

This turned many sour when they had to wait ~3 years for each new volume, especially when some of those new povs offered very little benefit to the series, or when some characters got stuck in a glacially moving plotline (see >>5060733). So yes, it does get boring sometimes, but I still think it's a very worthwhile series.

>> No.5060807

>>5049017
You want war and politics? You want Guy Gavriel Kay.

The books are not "series" - one story is made of two books, the rest are one-shots - but they're bloody great. Little to no magic, but good characters and the man can write.

My recommendations:

1) The Lions of al Rassan - basically a story of mythical Reconquista Spain;
2) The Sarantine Mosaic - this is the two book one, mythical Byzantium, skip loads of chariot racing and mosaic, lots of intrigue;
3) Under Heaven - mythical Tang dynasty China;
4 ) River of Stars - mythical Song dynasty china;
5) The Last Light of the Sun - mythical Saxons and Welshmen and Vikings oh my! This one's more about vengeance than politics, though.
5) Song for Arbonne - mythical Albigensian heresy.

>> No.5060816

>>5060807
Is that a priority list? You're pretty cool. I'd switch Arbonne to 3) and switch Under/Heaven with each other. Tigana before Last Light. But yes, I second Kay.

>> No.5060831

>>5060816
Nah, just something I tried to collate from own preferences, other people's prefs and... accessibility, perhaps. I left Tigana out entirely because I've not read it (probably should, and I actually have it, but the "traditional fantasy" aspect's been putting me off).

FWIW, my personal top three GGK books are the Sarantine Mosaic, River of Stars and Under Heaven. I love stories set in Ancient China or analogues thereof, and Byzantium always gets the shaft in the (pre)mediaeval fantasy inspiration list. Off the top of my head, I can only remember one another story that shamelessly cribs from Constantinople and that's the Videssos series from Harry Turtledove.

>> No.5060835

>>5060807

This seems pretty good. Thanks, anon.

>> No.5060851

>>5060254
As it stands, Kingkiller has a potential to go either way, but it all relies on how Rothfuss finishes the story up.

Up to this point it's not revolutionary, it does nothing new. It's solid. The conclusion is going to count for a lot.

>> No.5060855

>>5060831
Have you read Barry Hughart and Ernest Bramah? I recommend them highly. There's also Lian Hearn (whom I've not read), Chris Wooding's Braided Path (I was not impressed with the first book), Sean Russell's Initiate Brother(?) duology, David Wingrove's Chung Kuo (whom I've not read and it is SF).

I don't have much for Byzantium, except Lawhead's Byzantium I guess.

>> No.5060880

>>5060254
>>5060851
Sorry I'm not presenting a better argument, but it's been a couple of years since I read the books, and they really didn't leave any kind of imprint on me. As you say, there is a certain level of depth, but I feel it's only relevant if Rothfuss makes something of it. Often readers find a lot more than the author ever intended.

I really do feel the first Earthsea novel did a hell of a lot of the story already, what with Naming, truth of self, the realities of over-reaching yourself and the problems caused by headstrong youth.

>> No.5060893

>>5060855
Hughart's Bridge of Birds trilogy yes, and a couple of the Kai Lung books; of the others I've read the only the Nightingale Floor one (Hearn). I'll look up the others.

Speaking of Ancient Chinese secrets, I think the old wuxia classics can be classified as fantasy, what with baddies oneshotting people with the Nine Yin Bone Dragon Claw Punch, leaping up mountains and larger than life heroes.

If you're into mythical butt-kicking for goodness, I heartily recommend the works of Jin Yong (aka Louis Cha): The Legend of Condor Heroes, The Return of the Condor Heroes and The Heaven Sword and Dragon Sabre. Some enterprising people have translated them into English, thank the stars.

>> No.5060914

>>5060893
I'll have to look for the fan translations. My only experience with Louis Cha is the Condor Heroes anime.

I haven't watched wuxia movies in a while but I still have quite a lot of them. They're definitely enjoyable.

>> No.5060966

>>5060739 look at >>5050456
Prince of Thorns, Witcher, etc, etc is there

>> No.5060978

Read Robin Hobb, character based (although there's still some action) low-moderate fantasy. She writes the most realistic characters of any fantasy author out there (and is on par with non-genre literature in that regard, imo). Only fantasy author to ever make me cry... twice :(

That said, her trilogies are hit and miss. Farseer Trilogy and Tawny Man Trilogy are both a must (they're basically one long series, with a 15 year gap between trilogies), these are her best books by miles. The rest you can explore and see if you enjoy them, but they don't really touch on the farseer books.

>> No.5060999

Wow a lot of discussion mixed in this thread.

As a huge fantasy reader/fan, here are my two cents:

Overrated turds:
Malazan - Gardens of the Moon has a disclaimer for the shit writing before you start reading it for fucks sakes, end of story
Name of the wind - a book that was reworked for 7 YEARS to be made publishable, then got hyped up and marketed to the point where the neckbeard "writer" was even on the same panel as people with a lot more talent than him; even the most devoted fans to the first book agree the second is a turd, my guess is that it's because he wasn't made to actually work on it like he was with the first one

Writers I enjoyed that are hard to put in comparison to one another, depending on what you're looking for you'll definitely enjoy one of the following:

Robin Hobb
Brandon Sanderson
Garth Nix
Joe Abercrombie

look into the archives for these names and more since I and others have discussed or recommended them before


Currently my favorite series is Stormlight Archives, it makes my heart pound when I read the action like only first law trilogy can, it gets you excited about characters - even if they can be shallow cardboard similarly to other series like mistborn, here he seems to be on a whole other level, and even has humor that doesn't make you cringe for a change
It's huge, which offers great escapism, and allows you to explore an original-ish cool world that he bothers to make work in your head.

tl;dr; it delivers to me all the good elements that most other fantasy series that I've enjoyed only delivered one at a time, including his other series like Mistborn -although he's a solid writer who delivers entertaining easily marketable books like popcorn, he does deliver stuff others do not even if it is an original world.

>>5060978
loved farseer, hated the liveships one
will she ruin Fitz for me if I read tawny man?

>> No.5061003

>>5059606
>>5059001
you'll eat up stormlight archives even if its just two books

>> No.5061005

>>5060999
Are you aware of Adonalsium?

>> No.5061011

>>5061005
cosmere shit? didn't look into it even though I enjoyed all his "cosmere" books/series

I don't really care to find out all those original universes are a big soup or whatever he wants to do

I don't care to find out about the kings wit being the storyteller in Warbreaker, etc.

it just never interested me, quite the contrary

also I just recommended generic popular writers but there are so many stuff that I've read

The third book of mistborn was full of shit like that and I simply didn't care for it when all of a sudden we're talking gods, planetary killers, etc.

Not the way he wrote it anyway

right now I'm enjoying Runelords series, was recommended to me by someone on /lit/

>> No.5061015

>>5060999
>loved farseer, hated the liveships one
>will she ruin Fitz for me if I read tawny man?

No. In fact, Tawny Man is even better than Farseer imo, you're seriously missing out if you don't read it.

You're right, Liveship was meh, which is why I didn't recommend it specifically. I recommend to anyone who's never read her work - start with the Farseer Trilogy, move onto the sequel Tawny Man trilogy, then dabble with the rest and see if you can get into them (I had to force myself to finish Liveship, and couldn't even get 1/3 of the way into the first of the Soldier's Son or Rain Wild books, but apparently some people like them).

>> No.5061019

>>5061015
ok thanks, because I once read someone shitting on tawny man -or whatever the trilogy/book with old fitz is called and avoided it ever since

>> No.5061027

>>5061015
>>5061019
I'd like to offer a differing opinion in that while Fool's Errand is perhaps my favourite Fitz book, I felt the other two were below the quality of the other four books. I was also not very happy with the ending.

That said, Fitz is one of my absolute favourite characters regardless.

>> No.5061036

>>5061027

What was wrong with the ending? I thought it was more or less perfect.

My only complaint with the series is that the second book is a bit slow, doesn't have much of a climax and spends a bit too much time on themes it didn't really need to.

>> No.5061041

>>5045212
Is this actually any good?
How edgy is it?

>> No.5061049

>>5061041
It's more that the main character is edgy than the story
I really enjoyed them, haven't read the last though

DISCLAIMER: It's first person

>> No.5061053

>>5061036
It's been 11 years so I'll hope you'll forgive me if I'm not too detailed/accurate, but I thought it was all too neat. I especially felt Burrich was offed just so Fitz could get back with Molly and it left a sour aftertaste. Fitz's return with Molly generally was handled almost as an epilogue which I thought was not fitting.

As for the second book, I agree. I also didn't like how much of the plot progression was handled by eavesdropping.

>> No.5061058
File: 58 KB, 298x485, hz-culdi.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5061058

Has anyone read the Deryni series? The idea behind it sounds really great (like aSoIaF but with less grimdark and epic shit) but no one seems to have read it.

>> No.5061066

>>5061053

Ok, that might have been a bit neat, but it's a fairly small point. I don't know how to spoiler like that so I really can't comment any further.

>> No.5061076

>>5061058
I want more info on this, the cover looks interesting

>> No.5061090

>>5061066
Use <spoiler>spoiler text here</spoiler>, except replace < and > with [ and ], respectively.

I guess whether it's a small point or not is subjective. Eleven years after I can barely remember the details of the third book, but I can still vividly remember my disappointment at the ending.

I'm still damn excited for the new Fitz book coming out this August

>> No.5061987

attempt

>> No.5062281

>>5060999
>even the most devoted fans to the first book agree the second is a turd
I thought it was a vast improvement on the first, from the quality of prose to the actual plot developments

>> No.5062310

>>5062281
Ye gods, don't tell me you've blocked out the
village of ninjas haven't realised that sex leads to children, or Kvothe the Sex God chapter?

>> No.5062418

I've read Kingkiller Chronicles and it seems that because most fantasy is 100% shit, KC gets way more praise than it should

it's ok, 6/10 but it stands out I guess

>> No.5062494

>>5062310
They number among my reasons for treasuring the book as I do.

>> No.5062505

>>5062310
>Aethe, near my heart
>Without vanity, the ribbon
>Without duty, the wind
>Without blood, the victory

How do people not like the ninja village?? Also the Cthaeh is the perfect distillation/culmination of the primary theme of naming/storytelling and the power it possesses.

Can't wait to re-read these in preparation for day 3

>> No.5062517

Have you noticed that the shit Kvothe says to Denna is often seven word phrases?

>> No.5062580

I'm reading Wheel of Time at the moment, and I don't know what to think. I both like it and hate it. Almost done with book 2.

The first book took forever to get really interesting. Then there were half a dozen of really great chapters with lots going on. Then the characters all got split up into groups and it all went to shit. Two of the groups were boring as fuck for a handful of chapters before they got interesting things going again, the third group was the one I wanted to read most (Rand, Mat, and Thom) but after the first few chapters featuring them there were a bunch of chapters that was nothing but Rand and Mat going from town to town, hiding along the roadside, getting nothing done. The whole first book was a weird rollercoaster of bouncing back and forth between and interesting and tedious as fuck.

Book 2 started strong, but it's just been slowly winding down as it goes. Now I'm too invested into the characters to just drop it and I have 12 books to go...not sure how I feel about this.

>> No.5062632

>>5062580
Stick with it. The second book has a strong finish and while book three is mostly world-building, books four through six are tight as fuck.

>> No.5062659

>>5062580
>there were a bunch of chapters that was nothing but Rand and Mat going from town to town, hiding along the roadside, getting nothing done.
Easily my favorite stretch in the entire WoT series. Classic adventure shit. The part where they get trapped in the backwater inn during the lightning storm is terrifying. The whole sense of being sick and tired and down on your luck and little kids out in a big, uncaring world is really well portrayed (for this series).

>> No.5062932

>>5062659
I know right? Too many people can't appreciate things that don't directly advance the plot. When Mat protected Rand I was like "yep, best bros for life, now". Im on book 2 as well.

>> No.5062975

>>5062632
The two Rhuidean sequences (in books 4 and 13) are major highlights.

>> No.5063011

>>5060807

I've read a fair bit and The Lions of Al-Rassan is one of the most tremendous novels I've ever encountered. GGK is simply a cut above most fantasy authors.

>> No.5063027

>>5044029

Short-ish (4 books in total), and it certainly mixes fantasy with dystopian SF, but the Acts of Caine series by Matthew Woodring Stover was a tremendous, compelling surprise for me. Ebook only in the UK due to either rights issues or fucking simpleton publishers; its like a less rageblind Richard K Morgan. (Also Morgan's fantasy trilogy - 2 so far, starting with The Steel Remains - is quite good if you're not put off by fairly detailed descriptions of gay male sex.)

>> No.5063640

I think you should give Gardens of the Moon and Deadhouse Gates a try. I guess my opinion might be a little controversial but I think Erikson's worldbuilding doesn't hold up to Martin's. Erikson's worldbuilding seems shallow and at times arbitrary. One of my minor gripes with Erikson is that he ignores heraldry and vexillology, he'll write about an army raising their banners and neglect to describe their designs leaving me with a poor mental image. I have only read up to Memories of Ice so I'm unaware if this problem persist throughout the rest of the series.

>> No.5063822

>>5062659
>>5062932
Oh that inn scene with the lightning was the highlight of the book to me. I guess I should've been more clear, but it wasn't so much what happened that bored me, but the way it was presented. I just felt like he was too wordy with some of the scenes where they were walking between towns to the point where it actually lost some of the tension that had been building up.

>> No.5063836
File: 131 KB, 529x800, $(KGrHqIOKjIE26kgwt79BN2orqNkJg~~_3.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5063836

Robert E. Howard's Conan stories, as well as his Kull stories, are pretty essential fantasy reads, in my opinion. Leiber's Lankhmar stories as well. They'll always be the grandfathers of the genre to me.

>> No.5063998
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5063998

>>5044029
>>5046315
>>5060623
>mfw reading Deadhouse Gates right now.

>> No.5064479

>>5063836
Seconding the Fafhrd and Grey Mouser stories too, they're ace. The original adventuring party, with quest givers included (Ningauble and Sheelba).

>> No.5064583

The only good thing about malazan books is that Caladan Brood band inspired by them.

>> No.5065247

>>5062580
I think the only way I got through some of the more boring points was because I listened to the audiobook. Michael Kramer is the narrator and he has such a great voice.

>> No.5065286

>>5064583
the best thing about the malazan book of the fallen is the malazan book of the fallen, it is the best thing.

I would sell my bed to keep it.

>> No.5066023

>>5044029
You should try the Prince of Nothing trilogy, OP.

Really nice writing, interesting world and characters. I like how Bakker chooses to focus on a couple of central characters rather than having a massive amount of them all around the world. The books are obvious analogues to the Crusades and the story of Christ but it's great. Some don't enjoy the first book, but like most it establishes the world building; if you can plow through it and make it to the second, it'll all be worth it.

>> No.5066130

>>5065247
I can't listen to audiobooks. I have this weird thing where I can't really retain what people are saying if I can't see them. I always miss entire paragraphs if I listen to audiobooks because I zone out the narrator, oddly enough.

>> No.5066200

>>5065247
Presumably you mean the books half narrated by Kramer and his partner Kate Reading (who does all the female perspective chapters).

Those are quite good, although you could tell they grew to loathe some of the characters by the end (listen to the way Reading voices Min in the last 3 books).

>> No.5066203

>>5066130
It's actually quite common anon, a lot of people have trouble processing stuff being read aloud to them.

>> No.5067039
File: 234 KB, 500x360, spongebob_imagination.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5067039

>>5066130
Try closing your eyes and imagine what they people are saying.

>> No.5067202

>>5066130
I find that marijuana helps me visualize a lot more.

>>5066200
Yeah those ones. Definitely by the time Sanderson came into the picture I could definitely tell something was different. I wasn't sure if it was just the audio quality or the narrators themselves. Now I know.

>> No.5067222

>>5060739
I'm currently reading it and enjoying it, though it's one of those stories that's so obviously fiction that it's cringe at times. You know, where you're very obviously reading flow of thought, creativity taking suggestion from what it's just put down, rather than something carefully crafted to be realistic. Of course I'm a smartarse though.

>> No.5067226

>>5067222
And that's why you can't write real life --because we're so hugely less disordered than that which surrounds us.

>> No.5067231

And then Joyce comes along and makes that the story like a badass.

>> No.5067330

I would like to retract that condescension, because it's actually a great book :D

>> No.5067362
File: 64 KB, 490x600, 138489534567.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
[ERROR]

>>5044951
>mistborn trilogy
post disregarded

>> No.5067379

The Warlord Chronicles, OP. Plenty of grim, dark-age storylines. Full of politics and action.

>> No.5067391

>>5067362
Why do people dislike it? The synopsis doesn't seem horrible and I really like The Stormlight Archive so far.

>> No.5067415

>>5044969
Seconding the First Law Trilogy. Reading Red Country at the moment, Joe Abercrombie is the Don of the new Fantasy, great series of books and the other three set later in the same universe are fucking excellent too, and by the looks of it the new one is going to smash it too.
>>5053445
Robin Hobb, JV Jones, Steph Swainson - three of my favourite fantasy writers.

>> No.5067558

>>5060807
>>5060816
>>5060831
Wow, someone else on /lit/ is reading GGK. It always felt strange, that noone is talking about him in these fantasy recommendation threads, because I think he is a pretty well-known author in general.

Now I realize that these anons posted that two days ago, but having just finished Under Heaven, what the hell was the deal with the horses? How can you just completely forget the main plot-line of your whole story?

Also, with Under Heaven and River of Stars being the most recent novels, how probably is it, that he is writing right now a third china novel?

>> No.5067597

>>5067415
>and by the looks of it the new one is going to smash it too.

There is a new one after the three stand-alone novels? I thought he was writing some YA shit at the moment.

>> No.5067687

>>5061003
That series is trash.

>> No.5067701

>>5067687
sos ur mum

>> No.5067709

>>5060831
Tigana is tighter is than a 12 year old. Worth the read.

>> No.5068100

>>5067039
That's actually not a bad idea.

>> No.5068273

>>5067391
I've read it, and I enjoyed it. Sanderson writes entertaining characters, good plots and solid prose.

I really liked them

>> No.5068313

>>5067558
Original GGK recommendin' anon here.

It's been a while since I've read Under Heaven, but the way I remember it, I don't think the heavenly horses were the main plotline - they were the just the hook to get Shen Tai out of his backwoods grieving and into the centre of the plot, that being the intrigue around the august personages in the capital.

>> No.5068319

>>5067558
And goddamn it, forgot to add: I hope for one but don't think he's doing it. There are, of course, important events post-Song-Jin War China, but I don't think GGK's going down to that well for a time.

Then again, I would give a heavenly horse to read GGK's take on the Warring States or Three Kingdoms era.

>> No.5068577

>>5067709
Just bought it

I'm halfway through the Count of Montecristo, should I drop it and read Tigana?

>> No.5069523

>>5068313
>>5068319
I dont have a problem that the Horses didnt play such an important role after all, but at least the question why he got such an extraordinary gift in the first place should be answered.

Interestingly enough, in real life the Tibetan Empire (the historical equivalent to the one that bestowed the Heavenly Horses in the book) greatly profited by the chaos of the rebellions and took over large parts of the Silk Roads and even plundered the chinese capital.
So I always waited for the plot-twist, that the Horses were just a clever ploy to kickstart the An-Lushan-Rebellion, but it was never adressed at all in the book.

>I would give a heavenly horse to read GGK's take on the Warring States or Three Kingdoms era.
Warring States, yes. But not the 3K, its such a well-trodden scenario, done already thousand times before. I like it that he is using less known settings (though of course reconquista, an-lushan-rebellion, justinian-era byzantium and so on are not really obscure settings either)

>>5068577
No, finish Monte Cristo first.

>> No.5069606

>>5069523
OK, now I see.

I simply took it that the not-Chinese princess bride of the not-Tibetan king simply gave the horses to Shen Tai because he was honouring the dead of both sides, burying them at the lakeside. A bloody huge gift but a huge show of respect as well, not a ploy to start up a huge mess. Guess I'm a cup-half-full type of person.

A GGK book set in the Warring States era would be mega, I agree. Given the man's skill in crafting evil bastards, I fear what he could do with a man like Lord Shang of Qi. I mean, the man actually wrote a book that's basically a guide to being an evil overlord and managed to implement the manual in practice.

>> No.5070096

>>5069606
>simply gave the horses to Shen Tai because he was honouring the dead of both sides
But it was directly said at the beginning, that giving 1 or 2 horses would already be far more then he deserved and up to 10 horses would be appropriate as a great gift for emperors, but 250? There HAD to be a deeper meaning behind that.

>> No.5070938

Erikson really knows how to write about getting hit with a crossbow quarrel.