/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.5021168]

What should one read first -- the Iliad or the Odyssey?
I've heard advice either way; the Iliad obviously first chronologically, but I've also heard that the Odyssey gives more helpful background details.

[Anonymous No.5021372]

>>5021168
Read The Iliad first.

[Anonymous No.5021728]

>>5021168
As long as you read the footnotes it honestly does not matter in the least.

[Tallis !!DxrlCMGAS2J No.5021730]

>>5021168
nigga u dumb or wat

[Anonymous No.5021733]

>>5021168
A Dance With Dragons gives more background details to A Game Of Thrones, which do you read first?

[Tallis !!DxrlCMGAS2J No.5021735]

>>5021730
Read Longinus' On The Sublime, he explains why the Odyssey is nothing compared to the Iliad, and he's right. It's just some dude telling tales for the whole time, it has nothing to do in terms of literary and tragic value, with the Iliad.

Source: just spent six months studying the Iliad

[Anonymous No.5021788]

>>5021735
Wouldnt it be best for OP to read them first before delving into criticism and assessment?

[Anonymous No.5021815]

>>5021168
IIRC The Odyssey came first and The Iliad is sort of the prequel.

It's been a long time since I read them, but don't forget to throw in The Aenead at the end whatever you decide.

[Tallis !!DxrlCMGAS2J No.5021826]

>>5021815
sheeeeit nigga

Boileau's translation of Longinus:

Mais je vous prie de remarquer, pour plusieurs raisons, combien il est affaibli dans son Odyssée où il fait voir en effet que c'est le propre d’un grand esprit, lorsqu'il commence à vieillir & à décliner, de se plaire aux contes & aux fables. Car qu'il ait composé l'Odyssée depuis l'Iliade, j'en pourrais donner plusieurs preuves. Et premièrement il est certain qu'il y a quantité de choses dans l'Odyssée qui ne sont que la suite des malheurs qu'on lit dans Iliade, & qu'il a transportées dans ce dernier ouvrage, comme autant d'effets de la guerre de Troie. Ajoutés que les accidents qui arrivent dans l'Iliade sont déplorés souvent par les héros de l'Odyssée, comme des malheurs connus & arrivés il y a déjà longtemps. Et c'est pourquoi l'Odyssée n'est à proprement parler que l'épilogue de l'Iliade.

lemme translate brb

[Tallis !!DxrlCMGAS2J No.5021839]

>>5021826
But I beg you to understand how much he [Homer] is weaker in his Odyssey where he shows how it is common to great minds, once waning and old, to enjoy itself writing lores and fables. For that he has composed the Odyssey after the Iliad, I could give many proofs of it. And first of all it is obvious that there are many things in the Odyssey that are but sequels to what happens in the Iliad, and that he brought back in his Odyssey as many results of this war in Troy. Added that the accidents found in the Iliad are often commented by the heroes of the Odyssey as woe having happened a long time ago. And that is why the Odyssey is, to properly say so, but the epilogue of the Iliad.

[Tallis !!DxrlCMGAS2J No.5021843]

>>5021839
Je me suis étendu là-dessus y comme j'ai déjà dit : afin de vous faire voir que les génies naturellement les plus élevés tombent quelquefois dans la badinerie, quand la force de leur esprit vient à s'éteindre. Dans ce rang on doit mettre ce qu'il dit du sac où Eole enferma les vents, & des compagnons d'Ulysse changez par Circé en pourceaux, que Zoïle appelle de petits Cochons larmoyants. Il en est de même des colombes qui nourrirent Jupiter, comme un pigeonneau : de la disette d'Ulysse qui fut dix jours sans manger après son naufrage, & de toutes ces absurdités qu'il conte du meurtre des amants de Pénélope. Car tout ce qu'on peut dire à l'avantage de ces fictions, c'est que ce sont d'assez beaux songes, &, si vous voulez, des songes de Jupiter même. Ce qui m’a encore obligé à parler de l'Odyssée, c'est pour vous montrer que les grands poètes, & les écrivains célèbres, quand leur esprit manque de vigueur pour le pathétique, s'amusent ordinairement à peindre les mœurs. C’est ce que fait Homère, quand il défait la vie que menaient les amants de Pénélope dans la maison d’Ulysse. En effet toute cette description est proprement une espèce de comédie où les différents caractères des hommes sont peints.

[Tallis !!DxrlCMGAS2J No.5021854]

>>5021843
I discussed this as I said before: to let you see how the most naturally elevated genius often fall in tripe, when the might of their mind comes to its end. Amongst this we must place the bag in which Aeolus stored the winds, and Ulysses' companions turned by Circe into swine, that Zoilus names "small weeping pigs". So is it of the dove feeding Jupiter like a baby pigeon, of Ulysse fasting for ten days after his shipwreck, and of all these absurdities that he [Homer] tells about the murder of Penelope's lovers. For all that we can say about these fictions, is that they are rather pretty dreams, and, if you will, dreams of Jupiter himself. But what forced me to discuss this, is the need to show you how great poets and renowned writers, when their minds lack viguor for the pathetic, usually spend their time describing mores. This is what Homer does, when he describes Penelope's lovers in Ulysses' house. And all of this description truly is a large comedy where the different characters of men are painted.

[Anonymous No.5021856]

>>5021826
>>5021839
>Homer composed the Iliad and Odyssey

Dropped right there. That's as stupid as saying King James wrote the Bible.

[Tallis !!DxrlCMGAS2J No.5021862]

>>5021856
A question unsolved by the greatest academicians of the world was solved by an anonymous poster on the literature board of a site made for anime. Let us feast and rejoice.

[Anonymous No.5021873]

>>5021862
The issue of Homer's historicity is irrelevant to the question of whether he composed or simply transcribed pre-existing oral poetry.

You're an idiot.

[Tallis !!DxrlCMGAS2J No.5021880]

>>5021873
I must indeed be an idiot, for exposing your lack of knowledge on the homeric question, and for pointing out the fact that you behave as if there was some general agreement on the question, while there isn't. Perhaps you could start by his wikipedia article and then his works, before even trying to argue on this?

[Tallis !!DxrlCMGAS2J No.5021884]

>>5021873
I have to go now; I'm leaving you to your illiteracy and speak these words reeking of hat.

[Anonymous No.5021885]

>>5021880
>I must indeed be an idiot

As long as we agree on something.

[Tallis !!DxrlCMGAS2J No.5021893]

>>5021884
to speaking*

[Anonymous No.5021894]

>>5021884
>reeking of hat

[Anonymous No.5021897]

>>5021894
>reading comprehension
He's saying you're talking through your hat.

[Anonymous No.5021913]

Is it hard to keep all the different characters and gods straight in your head?