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/lit/ - Literature

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5006906 No.5006906[DELETED]  [Reply] [Original]

>mfw people expect to write well without living a bohemian lifestyle

>> No.5007305

>>5006906
I would gladly trade all writing talent I might ever possess for a lifestyle that's slightly above "bohemian". Being poor without a trustfund is objectively shit.

>> No.5007311

>>5007305
welfare life is bretty gud.

>> No.5007322

>>5007311
>Being a social parasite

>> No.5007341

>>5007322
>being a soulless utilitarian who thinks contribution to society can be measured in economical productivity

>> No.5007346

>>5006906
herewegoagain.jpeg

>> No.5007370

>>5007341
how do many parasites contribute to society? I want to know. Also I want to know how long you thin any modern society will stay afloat with more parasites than producers

>> No.5007403

>>5007370
At the moment, and probably for the future as far as we can see, parasites, and other consumers, are far more valuable to society and the economy than producers. Production has been undergoing exponential growth in efficiency since the middle of the nineteenth century. With automation, genetic engineering and more computer mediated design and manufacturing techniques being introduced everyday, production will soon be in the hands of a tiny minority of people, and their output will dwarf that of all past centuries.

In the meantime, consumption has never needed to be refined and expanded because poverty, differential wealth distribution and growing populations made this unnecessary. We are reaching the limit of that however:in another half century the supply of goods, energy, food and consumer items will far outstrip demand. we will need more and more 'parasites" to take up the slack and create value by creating demand.

>> No.5007405
File: 293 KB, 640x480, the fire rises.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5007405

>>5007370
>wanting modern society to stay afloat

>> No.5007412

>>5007370

ujelly?

>> No.5007425

>>5007322
Almost everyone is a social parasite. You're not "contributing" to society by going in to some cubical slave job all day. The only thing most people can do to contribute to the material well-being of society, economically, is to consume. It doesn't matter how you get the money to consume, it's all the same.

Also it seems the bohemian lifestyle is largely extinct due to prohibitive urban real estate pricing.

>> No.5007445

>>5007425

Earlier romantic ideas of bohemian life in Paris, New York, London, etc. are dead. 21st century bohemians live in their moms basement.

>> No.5007454

>>5007403
>We are reaching the limit of that however:in another half century the supply of goods, energy, food and consumer items will far outstrip demand.

That isn't how it works. And producers are also consumers. It would be most efficient to only have producing consumers.

>> No.5007468

>>5007445
Do you know of any good writings about this? It's something that's interested me for awhile. Why did the bohemian/artistic lifestyle die? Or was it such a minor, idealized thing that it never actually existed to any greater extent than it does now?

>> No.5007489

>>5007322
>>5007370
upright citizen pls

>> No.5007506

>>5007468
it probably could exist in expat communities in poor countries

>> No.5007512
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5007512

>>5007405
I know I am anticipating the complete collapse of the Capitalist system, a shift to a more global economy, or maybe something even more catastrophic or dramatic. Will be fun times.

I feel that if I leave a piece of writing behind and someone reads it after I die and sees a perfect snapshot of life in the 20th/21st century, or is amused, or thrilled, or *affected* in some way, than I will have contributed more I have to society than in my day job, making shit advertisements for Philistine corporate clients atop their Capitalism-mobiles that are tearing up this country.

(whew)

>>5007445
TFW you read A Moveable Feast and hear about how poor and on the fringe the expats were, yet Papa and his son go to the café like every fucking day. Try doing that today as a freelancer or a NEET. Pfff.

>> No.5007520

>>5007454
sadly, this is exactly how it works: producers could increase their consumption by orders of magnitude and not keep up with the surplus. we have prioritized efficiency and productivity for so long that it has become transcendent.

>> No.5007556
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5007556

>>5007512
>oil markets the way they are heading
>shift to a more global economy

>> No.5007611
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5007611

>>5007468

In the 19th and most of the 20th centuries artists could relocate to one of these places and live (usually in squalor) for next to nothing while socializing and collaborating, and they usually weren't gentrifying the communities. They had time to fuck around and be idle, which is the FOUNDATION of the bohemian lifestyle (I think Whistler said this). In Paris this gave way to lots of movements like impressionism, symbolism, post impressionism, the Lost Generation, surrealism, the New Wave, etc.

It's important to note that most of these artists did not come from privileged backgrounds, so if they didn't create anything they didn't eat or go to brothels and so on. They were always on the edge financially and were taking enormous risks by creating daring, novel work.

Now in the postindustrial economy there's a huge demand to live in these cities where there's a bigger market for art and be a part of the so called "creative class", and this drives up cost of living expenses and introduces gentrification.

Because the cost of living is so high in order to live in cool neighborhoods in say New York, Paris, London, LA, etc. you have to spend quite a bit of time earning money before you can produce something (unless you're loaded), and this is the antithesis of the Bohemian lifestyle.

Today people in places like Brooklyn or wherever may indulge themselves like bohemians of days past, but they sure as shit aren't producing anything at the same level.

By the way I don't live in the basement of my mom's house, I live in the upstairs room.

>> No.5007649

>>5007556
Oh yeah, oil will be obsolete. We will either have flying hover-whatevers or we will be post-apocalyptic with the corpses of cars everywhere.

>> No.5007731

>>5007370
Not sure if serious but I will give a serious answer.

I live a somewhat bohemian life (unemployed, urban, artistic, degenerate). Parents are retired. I inherited the family home. I get a decent amount of welfare from disability each month and rent the other bedrooms out to my friends. We sit out in the backyard and get drunk in the middle of the afternoon and drive down property values for the whole neighborhood. Despite this, I contribute a lot to society. By not committing suicide, I contribute to my parent's happiness and their dreams of having grandchildren. By renting out my family home, I contribute to my friends' welfare by providing them with shelter and camaraderie. By selling my prescriptions and other drugs, I contribute to the black market economy, the downfall of western civilization and the corruption of young minds. I also have a girlfriend whom I'm pretty sure she'd go crazy without me so I contribute to her mental health by giving her a dose of vitamin D twice daily if ya know what I mean. I also contribute to the internet, kinda. I try not to shitpost and I do make OC on occasion. I am involved in local art and music scenes. I support my friends and their projects. I would like to write a book someday and contribute to the literary scene in America as well.

Is there really anything wrong with my lifestyle aside from the fact that it's unconventional? Everyone I know who works for a living hates their job. Why would you begrudge someone for finding a way to live without one? Is it mere jealousy?

>> No.5007747

>>5007322
>wanting to eat alone

>> No.5007760
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5007760

>>5007731
What do your parents think about all this? Just curious. My parents were never all that strict but I'm pretty sure my dad would kill himself from shame if I were to tell him I planned on permanently withdrawing from productive society.

How can you look your parents in the eyes knowing your livelihood is entirely contingent on their good-graces and hard work, despite the fact that you are a grown man? Don't you have a sense of pride?

>> No.5007799

>>5007731
Because I am truly a glutton for punishment, might I ask why you get disability for?

>> No.5007836

>>5007731
>Is there really anything wrong with my lifestyle aside from the fact that it's unconventional?
You're literally living the dream and, as someone who rarely feels this way, I'm rather jelly.

>> No.5008044

>>5007731
Because if even a lot of people did that the world would suck. You can't deny it. I just explained it.

>> No.5008051

>>5007731
>We sit out in the backyard and get drunk in the middle of the afternoon and drive down property values for the whole neighborhood.

I would call this a positive. Overvalued real estate is one of the biggest problems of society. By decreasing real estate pricing you are actually doing more to help society than I'd say at least 90% of full-time workers.

>> No.5008054
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5008054

>>5008044
>if a lot of people used their wealth to house their friends the world would suck

>> No.5008094

>>5008054
I meant you wouldn't have what you have today where your ass can sit here infront of a computer and shit time on 4chan all day. Also are you implying that their are enough of said people to house just their friends or a huge population?

>> No.5008106
File: 128 KB, 250x250, character 'dean mccoppin' from the motion picture 'iron giant' (1999, directed by brad bird) about to take a sip of coffee (or other hot liquid) in mug at town scrapyard.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5008106

>>5008044
guys he's one of these retards
nothing to see here, thread's over

>> No.5008144

>>5007305
>not enjoying simplicity and Epicurianism

>> No.5008150

>>5008094
i implied nothing

>> No.5008159

>>5008094
> 2014
> not shitting time

If you're not dumping spacetime contradictions, you're not dumping at all. Plebs.

>> No.5008182

>>5008150
May I ask another thing then, why Western civilization specifically? If you're that same anon of course.

>> No.5008192

>>5007760
Why do you call being afraid of not doing what daddy likes a sense of pride? Why disguise cowardice as honour?

>> No.5008245

>>5008144
Room temperature pepsi and wonderbread have nothing to do with simplicity or Epicurianism. Don't pretend like you know anything about the realities of poverty if you are familiar with either of those concepts.

>> No.5008249

james joyce hated bohemians like hemingway

>> No.5008270

Most "bohemian lifestyle" writers were just people whose parents had enough money to fund them so they could spend all day screwing around. Authentic bohemianism is closer to the Dude.

>> No.5008275

>>5008270
this.

>> No.5008281

>>5008270
Celine, Miller, Bukowski, Colette, Fitzgerald, Bolano, Baldwin, and Pynchon will have a word with you now.

Don't think opie is right, but that was off the top of my head.

>> No.5008323

>>5008281
>Fitzgerald,
>bohemian
whut?

>> No.5008333

>>5008182
I'm not the bohemian guy but I'm the guy to whom you responded. I assume the other guy despises certain characteristics of western post-industrial society.

>> No.5008364

>>5008333
hmm don't we all? Still why specifically the west?
Also he really isn't even bohemian he's more of just a degenerate(spoiled). He said it himself. I really haven't taken anything he's said seriously.

>> No.5008386

>>5008364
>why specifically the west?
because he lives in the west?

>> No.5008389

>>5008270
The Dude lived of an inheritance though.

>> No.5008677

>>5007454
>It would be most efficient to only have producing consumers.
Impossible. We are too efficient.

>> No.5008689

>>5007445
>21st century bohemians live in their moms basement.
>not detroit

>> No.5008713
File: 72 KB, 960x654, Moulin-Rouge-moulin-rouge-30844870-960-654.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5008713

>Your life will never be like Moulin Rouge

>> No.5008727
File: 210 KB, 811x1024, Dusk.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5008727

>>5008713

Don't remind me...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62rTYlIv6QY

>> No.5008733

>>5008192
Because if you sponge off of your family fortune you are by definition in-debt to the family that worked so hard to create and perpetuate it. To scorn the values of the very same people that raised and supported you as a child then CONTINUE to support you even when you by all rights ought to have been flung from the nest is a disgrace. How does that not leave a bad taste in your mouth every time you phone up mommy and daddy for another check? How does it feel to know that because of your laziness you are no more of a man than your thirteen year old self? I don't have all too strong of a moral code, but that is just abhorrent to me.

>> No.5008736

>>5007731
Jesus christ you sound like such a fucking shithead

>> No.5008767

>>5008736
>shithead

Now you know the disability for which he collects money.

>> No.5008774

>>5007370
>being this economically new
>mfw

>> No.5008778

>>5008323
he did leave his wife to go to paris to hang out with the other degenerates

>> No.5008785

>>5008389
sauce?

>> No.5008793

>>5007731
you sit on your ass and wait for a hand-out.

the only reason you're allowed to live your "bohemian life" is because we let you. all those people "who work for a living and hate their jobs" take it on the chin for people like you.

if anyone should be envious, it's you

>> No.5008807

>>5008733
How is it a disgrace? Are you implying that a child is born into the service of his parents? That the child owes the people who put him here something? That's silly.

>> No.5008819

>>5008793
look guys, textbook slave mentality.

>> No.5008825

>>5008793
>if anyone should be envious, it's you
>muh work ethics
That's shit we gotta tell ourselves to deal with the fact that we waste our lives working.

>> No.5008828

>>5008106
underrated finename

>> No.5008829

>>5008793
>take it on the chin
Isn't that the problem?

>> No.5008831

>>5008807
I think the better question is are you implying that a child has absolutely no obligation to his parents?

>> No.5008838

>>5008785
>In an early draft of the script, The Dude's source of income was revealed. He was an heir to the inventor of the Rubik's Cube. It was Joel Coen's idea to drop this and never say.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0118715/trivia

>> No.5008846

>>5008831
I am. How can you be obligated when entered into the arrangement involuntarily? Parents decide to have kids. Kids don't decide to be born.

>> No.5008848

>>5008389
Nah, he's based on Marlowe (anyone who has read the works can easily perceive the similarity). Marlowe supposedly lives on detective work, but most of the time he's involved in random ass shit that he's not paid for or is personal or a case of mistaken identity; he's just over the line of "fashionably disheveled" landing into "nose-wrinkling slob"; he's lazy as fuck yet paradoxically gets a ton done. Marlowe is actually a breddy gud bohemian archetype: broke, indolent, creative in the most unselfconscious way, competent in the handful of things he actually cares about, indifferent to shame, morally nonjudgmental, disinclined toward bullshit.

>> No.5008860

>>5008848
Based on doesn't mean entirely the same. Also:
>>5008838

>> No.5008869

>>5008846
I hate to use a /pol/ buzzword, but this is true degeneracy. You're so deep in your own bullshit that you are impervious to any appeal to reason or common values. Enjoy your life at the bottom of the proverbial shitter of society.

>> No.5008893
File: 628 KB, 1280x800, Beautiful Bohemia.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5008893

>>5008838
>>5008848
Wasn't there a "real dude", an inspiration for the look and behaviorisms? (Probably heard it in the DVD extras. Too lazy to watch them over again)

>> No.5008894

>>5008860
He says that, but in the context of the story he has no proper income, he's like Kramer. He has a place to live because his landlord is perhaps into him, and the Dude indulges him by watching his interpretive dancing and so on.

>> No.5008916

>>5008893
I'm sure there were a lot of them. The characters as supposed to be archetypes of L.A. during the early 90's

>> No.5008918

>>5008893
If I recall correctly, they say they knew a guy who kept saying his rug "really ties the room together". None of the Dude's other attributes were said to be of this guy.

>> No.5008980

>>5008894
Yeah, I think it works better if his income is kept in the dark. I agree the Dude is properly bohemian and a true role model though.

>>5008918
They also knew another dude who was like the Dude, dude.

>> No.5008985

>>5006906
Were the poets of the beat generation, Ginsberg Kerouac, etc. bohemians?

>> No.5008997

>>5008985

Of course

Also, three writers do not make a generation

>> No.5009005

>>5008918
>>5008980
Dressed in a robe and flip-flops, heavier set, Jeff gained weight to resemble him, bud smoker of course. I think he had died well before the film.

>> No.5009007

>>5008245
>Room temperature pepsi and wonderbread
>not water and rice and beans

That's not poverty, that's stupidity.

>> No.5009010

>>5009005
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Dowd

He lives.

>> No.5009069

>>5007445
>implying the old bohemians don´t live in moms basement

>> No.5009073

>>5009007
>poverty =/= stupidity.

>> No.5009085

>>5007731
most people don't hate their jobs

stay blind

>> No.5009130

>>5009085
It's obvious his opinions on ordinary people are shaped by indie movies and office sitcoms. Why even bother responding? When this kid hits forty he's going to regret not having accomplished anything with his life. Until then he's too spoonfed off his own sophistry to realize he's pissing his life away

>> No.5009141

>>5008733
white knight or retard?

>> No.5009148

>>5009069

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bateau-Lavoir

>> No.5009180

>>5009130
>When this kid hits forty
not passed twentyfour

>> No.5009273

>>5009148
i mean the bohemians of that time live a same despicable life than live in moms basement to the now standard.

>> No.5010454

>>5008869
>I have no argument
There, your sentence abridged.

>> No.5010478

>>5008281
Pynchon
>Early on in Gravity’s Rainbow, Tyrone Slothrop muses bitterly on his old-money roots. “Shit, money, and the Word, the three American truths, powering the American mobility, claimed the Slothrops, clasped them for good to the country’s fate. But they did not prosper…about all they did was persist.” It sounds like an ungenerous rendering of the Pynchons, one of those Wasp lineages whose historical prominence leaves their ancestors with a burdened inheritance. For a would-be writer with his own stubborn ideas, it was a source of pride and shame.
The name goes back to Pinco de Normandie, who came to England at the side of William the Conqueror, and carries on through Thomas Ruggles Pynchon, the author’s great-great-uncle, president of Trinity College and the first Pynchon to take issue with the family’s portrayal by another writer (Nathaniel Hawthorne, who wrote of the “Pyncheons” in The House of the Seven Gables). Thinkers, surveyors, and religious mavericks, the House of Pynchon had settled into middle-class respectability by the time this Thomas Ruggles Pynchon was born near Oyster Bay, Long Island, in 1937.

>> No.5010515

>>5008869
You've just said nothing, btw. Don't get so mad.

>> No.5011164

>>5007747
Yes wanting to eat alone.
You people are really getting out of hand.

>> No.5011168

>>5006906
I like this post.
>implying OP isn't a basement dwelling and frightened shut-in.

>> No.5011264
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5011264

>>5006906
get on my level, nigga

>> No.5011678

>>5011164
I bet he doesn't even go to restaurants if he can't convince anyone to follow him.

>> No.5011827

>>5009130
How do people think like this? How can you justify calling doing as you please pissing your life away and by contrast think of being an office worker as worthwhile?

>> No.5011910

>>5011678
I just didn't know that people have mental hang ups that weird.

>> No.5013131

>>5008044

Fuck off Kant.

>> No.5013246

>>5008044
I say this to surgeons.

>> No.5013292
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5013292

>yfw when you hear people write their first book without an initial muse (person, place, memory, ideology or thing).

All good writers require a spirit a ghost that lives inside and fights to get out. Living conditions not withstanding. You write because something inside screams to be put on paper.

>> No.5015360

>>5010478
Never leave, Tom.

I was referring to your time on the LES while writing V.

>> No.5015385

>>5007731
>By selling my prescriptions and other drugs, I contribute to the black market economy, the downfall of western civilization and the corruption of young minds.

Oh god, cringe

>> No.5015409
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5015409

>>5006906
>mfw people expect to write well with living a bohemian lifestyle

>> No.5015435

>>5015385

>truth
>proper way of acting
>cringe

watch out, the sky is blue and you should breathe

i bet that made you cramp your facial nerves huh

>> No.5015441

>>5015435
Yes I'm sure selling some pills is contributing to the downfall of western civilization. I don't give a fuck if it's a done, just don't try to make it sound special or like you're actually doing anything but selling some pills. It really is embarrassing

>> No.5015504
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5015504

>>5015409
>tfw you live a bohemian lifestyle and don't feel the need to write anymore because your life has become a work of art and its own reward

>> No.5017947
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5017947

how does one live le bohemian lyfestyle?

>> No.5017962

>>5015504
Dude that's cyanosis not Buddha nature, you're ODing

>> No.5018065

>>5017947
Read Nescio's Freeloader, imitate Japi.