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/lit/ - Literature

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5005290 No.5005290[DELETED]  [Reply] [Original]

At what age did you renounce violence, /lit/?

>> No.5005297

>>5005290
18~ish.

I am a pacifist who will not hesitate to maim or kill if I need to though.

>> No.5005304 [DELETED] 

>>5005297
>I am a pacifist
>will not hesitate to maim or kill

nigga what?

>> No.5005306

>>5005297
i think ur confused friend

>> No.5005307

>>5005297
But that goes directly against what pacifism is.

>> No.5005308

>>5005290
I haven't really ever been violent. The only violence that's acceptable is defense of yourself and others.

>> No.5005311

>>5005297
>I am a pacifist who will not hesitate to maim or kill if I need to though.
Butterfly does it again! Words can mean whatever you want them to

>> No.5005317

At the age of 16 - I renounced non-violence >:) that was right around the time that the holocaust happened. Make of that what you will.

>> No.5005324
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5005324

>>5005304
I am a kind of... So I am a lying snake, but I prefer peace.
>>5005306
It is a smokescreen.
>>5005311
>Words can mean whatever you want them to
>Bows

>> No.5005334

>>5005290
19, after I read "The Kingdom of God is Within You".

Didn't agree with all of it but he makes a compelling case. I've changed my mind a lot since then, now I am being non-violent just to spite people, really.

But I am also a hypocrite, I know I wouldn't be able to restrain myself if I was witness to a girl getting raped or something similar.

>> No.5005335

>>5005324
I said it in another thread but it bears repeating:
You. Are. A. Fucking. Retard.

>> No.5005344

>>5005335
You have a smurf penis.

>> No.5005352

>>5005290
>at what age did you
How to spot a cancer circlejerk thread 101

>> No.5005373

When I realised violence is irrational. Around the time I realised that humanity is defined by both reason and lack there of. I realised that we are hanging above an abyss between animal and superman, with our own knowledge being our pull toward the superman.

>> No.5005396

Whatever age I decided to remain 150 lbs.

>> No.5005406

I never accepted violence in the first place, so... I guess I never really renounced it either.

>> No.5005425

>>5005290
Never. I know it sounds edgy as fuck, but there are a lot of people this world could do without.

The more I learn about others, the more I am convinced of this.

>> No.5005429

>>5005425
Who's to say you won't be counted among those?

>> No.5005437
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5005437

>>5005429
I am the trash who takes out the trash

>> No.5005452

>>5005290
Never, its a necessary aspect of the human condition.

I can't imagine how boring my childhood would have been if I hadn't gotten into fights, and I have a gut feeling this carries over in a relative sense to the human species with war and such (i.e. I feel as though the human species functions more or less as an individual, and that reasonable war is more or less as "healthy" for this "individual" as fistfights are).

That said, I obviously don't resent peace, its more like a yin-yang thing to me.

>> No.5005496

>>5005317
>that was right around the time that the holocaust happened. Make of that what you will.

So...never?

>> No.5005528

>>5005290
More like, at what age did I renounce non-violence ?
17, yes relatively late. I had never been in an actual fight since childhood (and even then I was rather pacific). Ah, that sweet moment in life when I realized that violence doe solve some problems.

>> No.5005541

>>5005528
*tips fedora*

>> No.5005793

I joined the military at 17, as a young rascal looking for thrills. I was very gung-ho until I was deployed at 19, that's when I realized that while violence is a means to an end as far as personal conflict goes, on a large scale it is pointless. I wouldn't really say I have fully renounced violence, and probably never will, but there are better ways.

>> No.5005911

I renounced violence at 23, then turned to embrace it again at 24.

>> No.5005937

>>5005297
that's defensivism or pacificism

>> No.5006019

I have done some pretty fucked up shit. Dunno how to give a short version, really, though. One time, I guess, I fucked up my ankle from kicking another dude in the face so much. He was my ex-girlfriend's new dude, not happy with the fact that she was still in love with me. I slapped him around her, her rubbing my chest, and he threw her out of the way. I've rationalised violence like that a lot, as a sort of hypnotism. Like, in argument on here, you get the ad homs or whatever, but in real life, violence is the last resort, the last control. I've broken that control a lot.

inb4 Narcissism
I think I mightn't be the most noble dude either, not so much as I make out. First time I ever got hit, I was supposed to be alter serving that night, got a huge black eye. Hit because I was pretty, too. And, so, yeah, I've done some pretty fucked up shit, but I figure maybe I'm in the less-wrong position all the same, and I've done some shit to complement that too, so. And I figure I've spent a long time utterly narcissistic, or giving off the appearance of such, in sheer defiance too, so suck it. I've not done anything too bad in a while. I figure maybe because I've seen it all now. Still get angry, though. Still a suicidal badass.

(People definitely mold their existences by their perceptions too. My first time getting hit to call off my alter serving - that shit was too perfect, IMO. You'd wonder if we weren't all retards, right? If we all shared some divine decency, just in ourselves, in our own considerations.)

>> No.5006030

>>5006019
It's so, so, so fucking hard to maintain notions of being a good guy. Selfishness is ubiquitous. You just gotta run with it after a while, I figure.

>> No.5006041

At around 13 I stopped fighting people. It was less a conscious pacifism than an avoidance of trouble.

Can't remember when I read Foundation. But there's a line in there that's something like: "Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent."
I like that one.

>> No.5006042

>>5006041
You must be trolling, dude.

>> No.5006043

I have never been violent but lately i feel the urge to punch someone. I don't believe i would, and since i'm some kind of neet, it is less probably i will.

>> No.5006046

How many more times am I going to write shit on here and retards take it and mold it to their lame, delusional condescension? FOREVER

>> No.5006054

>>5006046
It's like in Fight Club with that scene about "His name is Robert Paulson" and Edward Norton is freaking out, like "nooooo u fcking retards"

>> No.5006056

>>5005290
>Renounce violence when every nation upon earth relies on it.

How edgy of you, do you renounce sun too? or the water?

>> No.5006058

>>5006054
And then it plays on your own self-doubt too, ofc, and you get mad at whoever in projection, I get it, I get it.

>> No.5006059

>>5006056
You're a fucktard

>> No.5006066

>>5006059
Nicely elaborated m8.

>> No.5006073

>>5006066
You know it, no need to hammer it in

>> No.5006078

>>5005437
Walt's real problem was that he was inherently superior to everyone around him.

>> No.5006079

>>5005290
never

>> No.5006086

>>5006073
What exactly was wrong in my post?

>> No.5006087

>>5006059
Everything is violence, this conversation is violent with violent language.

One of the only two constants of life.

>> No.5006091

>>5006087
Fucking A. This is what I mean.

Did someone read Veitch or Cover?

>> No.5006101

>>5006087
Argument is violent in nature given its origins, it needn't always be so. Only death is inevitable.

>> No.5006102

>>5006091
Neither, personal musings.

>> No.5006103

>>5006091
>woo someone agrees with me!!

>> No.5006104

Seriously, a person can choose not to do violence, the same cannot be said for dying. Less dumb, please.

>> No.5006106

>>5006091
This post was great, though, seriously. Pressed down on anon's insecurities about being dumb and he bounced back like a spring once someone agreed with him, referenced a book even.

>> No.5006110

>>5006106
So how do you renounce violence in a world full of it where everything is based on it?

That means basically going to the fuckin woods and living without any human contact, which itself is a VIOLENT ACT towards the society.

You cannot choose to not do violence.

>> No.5006114

>>5006110
Go build houses for poor people in Africa, shithead.

>> No.5006117

>>5006114
>babby mad he cant defend retarded notion

or are you new to symbolic violence or something?

>> No.5006119

>>5006117
>building houses for poor people is violent

>> No.5006121

"He is a violent man, he builds houses for the poor."

>> No.5006132

Sometimes, acts of extreme violence are one of the best ways to stop a war. Tell Carthage, the American Natives, Japan, and Argentina that violence does not solve anything. Just because you are on the losing side does not mean the problem wasn't solved. Extinction, death, and suffering are undesputable acts of nature, whether it's a tornado or a torpedo. What ever happened to naturalism?

>> No.5006133

>>5006121
>>5006119
You are correct.

but it appears to me that our shitposting championshippers cant think in more than one level.

based shitposters, rev up those nietzsche threads

>> No.5006141

>>5006101
>it needn't always be so
That would denote an absence of passion, where's the fun in that?
>>5006104
>a person can choose not to do violence
Such a being will always be subordinate to those willing to act. (i.e. indifferent)

>> No.5006142

Is violence natural?

Is it apart of human nature?

>> No.5006145

You renounce violence because other people employ it for you. If you did not have the threat of violence keeping you safe, you might change your tune

>> No.5006150
File: 1.51 MB, 1900x1564, Utrecht_Moreelse_Heraclite.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5006150

>>5006121
>>5006119
All change is an act of violence.
To create one must first destroy.

>> No.5006151

>>5005297
I hate you so much.

>> No.5006153

>>5005290
I renounced violence at a young age.

I renounced my renunciation of violence at 19.

>> No.5006155

>>5005290
I'm from a petty bourgeois family, so probably never.

>> No.5006163

>>5005452
> I have a gut feeling this carries over in a relative sense to the human species with war and such
It doesn't. War is a very boring and absurd thing nowadays.

>> No.5006166

>>5006142
"The human nature" is a spook, an excuse for immoral behavior.

>> No.5006169

>>5006166
>There's a definitive set of morals
Locke pls go you're a joke

>> No.5006176

>>5006145
Aren't you that lady with the vendetta against the state?

Also:
>>5006133
>>5006150
You fucks are dumb

>> No.5006179

>>5006141
Fuck off, m8.

>> No.5006183

Im a Slav we have culture of kill

>> No.5006184

Aliens comes to enslave and kill humanity.

How do we deal with them without violence?

>> No.5006185

"Violence is necessary. In clipping one's toenails, one aggresses against one's own body."

Talk about retard-tier justification, bros. Srs..
>clips toenails, kills man, same thing

>> No.5006192

>>5006176
>You are dumb
says the person that cannot understand how there is more to violence than the factual violence where the violence is directly forced on person.

>> No.5006195

>>5006185
Though.....there are interesting parallels to be drawn there, between the skinheaded solider and the longhaired hippy. Some people are in fact quite mad about the human, mortal condition, and solipsistically taking their anger out on everyone else.

>> No.5006198

>>5006192
No. Says the person who's saying the man who builds houses for poor people isn't violent. You're just retardedly twisting concepts because, get this, you're retarded.

>> No.5006199

>>5006195
You ever see those people in the Guinness book of records for like holding their hand up in the air for years or letting their fingernails grow? Weird fucking shit, lol.

>> No.5006203

IF only we weren't all so retarded, eh? World might be a way better place.
(See, I know I'm right about this shit, so I can take self-assurance in that, even though I am a violent person. One can be justly violent.)

>> No.5006209

>>5006198
Symbolic violence is symbolic violence, be it against the system that caused it in the first place or not.

>> No.5006210

Dogs and women aren't exactly dissimilar in psychology, IMO. You know, the way they'll both lie across you, as though that's control over you, you're there for them. Who does man have to lie on? It's lonely being a man.

>> No.5006213

>>5006209
Stop making retard posts, retard.

>> No.5006218

>>5006210
Well, then you also got that whole gay deal, which Family Guy makes a fortune on . . . but I'm not a faggy man. Srs, anytime you call someone else a faggot, you're actually making a wish.

>> No.5006220

>>5006213
It is an act against the oppression in the system, what's there not symbolic violence in it?

>> No.5006221

>>5006220
He's still doing it. He's still making the retard posts.

>> No.5006224

>>5006221
>>5006213
Stop shitposting.

>> No.5006225

The man who builds houses for the poor is in fact a violent man. Gandhi? Murderer.

>> No.5006226

>>5006224
Are you actually srs bro?
>hur durr convention will save me, he is the bad one, not i

>> No.5006229

Pitiful stupidity, tbqh. Man, it's actually hard being intelligent.

>> No.5006230

>>5006225
>>5006226
>I have no arguments so I must shitpost.

>> No.5006233

>>5006230
On a scale of 1 to 10, how intelligent do you feel right now?

>> No.5006235

>>5005344
jesus christ i burnt my nose with hot tea and i'm not even mad
underrated post

>> No.5006237

>>5006235
I taught her that.

>> No.5006241

>>5006091
>Did someone read Veitch or Cover?
what's this?

>> No.5006242

>>5006241
jurisprudence

>> No.5006243

>>5006241
http://digitalcommons.law.yale.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=3687&context=fss_papers

>> No.5006244
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5006244

the human condition
1. all people act to benefit themselves
2. benefiting yourself is achieving or increasing the likelyhood of
desire is wanting, wanting is desiring, values are the object of our desires or perhaps the guiding principle of our wanting or perhaps the wanting itself
1. wants are prior to needs
2. needs are only an expression of our own weakness, they are and do occur due to the complement of our personal ability in relation to our desires
you want to live, this is a temporal desire; you want to continue to live
you can not simply live based on your own ability, you can not simply continue to live only through yourself so your living is conditional
it can thus bee seen that this inadequacy creates needs, certain conditionals that must be for your desires to be fulfilled - you must procure air, food, water and shelter - and in this way needs are an expression of your weakness, the fact that you cannot consist of yourself through yourself, and the need exists as the result of your inability in relation to a specific desire
the relation with this specific desire is of chief importance. if you do not want to live, do you then need to breath/eat/drink? no, in fact you would need to bring these activities to a halt to fulfil your desire - your own death
1. all desires, values and purposes can only be seen from the frame of reference of a subject
2. a subject is either that which can experience qualia or the qualia occurring/being itself
3. morality is the threat of violence for detriment to the values of the more powerful, inherently social, the approval of benefit
4. violence is detriment caused by one subject upon another
5. friendship/love/cooperation is benefit caused by one subject upon another
the categorical imperative is the greatest piece of satire given to us by one of the worlds foremost geniuses. the awkwardness inherent to morality as the individual no longer benefits from appeasing the majority is given full recognition and the values of the majority are taken to be the absolute in a scenario where the individual will not accept or want to accept the values of the majority and thus will denounce such a system. At heart everyone is selfish, appeasing the majority/being moral is selfishness that recognises its own inability, the inability to combat and ward off the violence of a majority/an other OR the need for an other, however when one cannot possibly benefit from appeasing and perhaps are being at the same time detrimented(for to act without benefit surely is a detriment) they will dissent. The individual has to in all situations where there is a possibility of benefit and detriment perform an analysis on the situation that ensures the best case for themselves.

1/2

>> No.5006249
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5006249

our emotions direct our behaviour. the most adequate teleological account for their existence exists in our inability to perform benefit/detriment analysis of our situation with reason in the time that is required for us to act, however emotions are not irrational - they are a heuristic and there is likely to some extent consistent internal logic within their operation
1. what can bring upon benefit is also beneficial
2. what can bring upon detriment is also detrimental
4. violence is detriment caused by one subject upon another
if we consider that the threat of violence is still violence we can see that morality is itself simply a more subtle and cunning form of violence. if morality were more than a limiting agent upon an individual it could act as an abstracted friendship, morality perhaps only acts this way when you are the dominant value holder/most power-or-able
concepts of right and wrong are simply abstractions of this (moral)violence
the individual is free to desire and desire what it will
if the individual values others through its own will then altruism is truly possible
1. morality and values are interdependent between individuals
that is, if you do not value anything that can be affected by an other their attempts at violence are whispers in the woods, they may as well not exist, and the others may individually be more capable at affecting the possibility of your desires coming to fruition and so different instances of violence will be consequence for you depending on their source

2/2

>> No.5006253

>>5006249
Sperg. Building houses for poor people is not violence, fuckhead.

>> No.5006255

>>5006253
I didn't read that, but jic lol

>> No.5006258

>>5006253
Yeah only hitting person is violence :,)

>> No.5006288

>>5006255
why didn't you read it? do people on lit also suffer from tldr

>> No.5006319

>>5006258
Hey guys, let's not anyone be mean to anyone else ever again. Oh, but wait, being nice is technically being mean, somehow.
(Doesn't work, really, does it? But, sure, I guess - any and all force can be construed as violence, and retards get a justification of violence.)

>> No.5006334

I am really smart guys, trust me. I'm like the genius in Watchmen who tries to make a common enemy of god for all men (just realised that).

>> No.5006338

at what age did tolstoy start to rape his servants?

>> No.5006368

>>5006338
At whatever age puberty hit, I'd guess.

>> No.5006459

>>5006319
you didn't understand what i wrote
why is everyone so retarded and defensive?

>> No.5006478

>>5006459
Someone got offended about the fact that symbolic violence exists and then made a strawman about it.


Read Scott Veitch's articles and Robert Cover's Violence and the Word and get educated

>> No.5006488

>>5006368
Puberty is a gradual and varied process with no clearly identifiable start, actually.

>> No.5006500

At what age did you grow into violence?

>> No.5006508
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5006508

⇒renouncing violence
⇒2014
shiggy diggy

Violence has always been and will always be the best solution to all problems. It is inherent to human nature and it is lulzy as fuck. I'm practicing violence every day.

>> No.5006516

>>5006145
This. It's easy to be non-violent hiding behind the riot police.

Also, claiming pacifism while contributing to the funds of a country's police force and military actually isn't non-violence. It's proxy violence. Our tax moneys are killing people as we speak.

>> No.5006528

crazy arrows girl is a dominatrix on a bdsm club

>> No.5006560

>>5006528
I think they're a faggot.

>> No.5006571

>>5006528
inb4 dox

>> No.5006580

>>5006459
I'm just laying down the law, bro.
>>5006478
Nobody's offended, you're retarded.

>> No.5006607

>>5005290
At what age did you accept violence OP, only to renounce it a few years after ?

>> No.5006623

>>5006166
Morals are also spooks.

>> No.5006630

>>5006560
faggot detected

>> No.5006649
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5006649

>>5005334
>I know I wouldn't be able to restrain myself if I was witness to a girl getting raped or something similar.

>> No.5006681

Why are you guys obfuscating the meaning of violence? Violence is something done with the intention to harm someone or something. An argument isn't violent unless your inflammatory; it can still be heated and passionate without being violent.

>> No.5006688

>>5005290
I think offensive war is abhorrent, but defending a peaceful, prosperous, ethical way of life is noble, regardless of race or creed

>> No.5006692

>>5006132
The nuclear bomb

>> No.5006832

Violence will stop making sense if all the peoples have enough monies to live a reasonably comfortable life and are well read

>> No.5006859
File: 88 KB, 316x475, lorenz aggression.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5006859

>>5006832
most spree killers are from rich upper middleclass

>> No.5007012

>>5006859
angry teen shootings don't exactly account for the majority of violence.

>> No.5007020

>>5006832
Dostoevsky's man from the underground would get up and complain about toothache.

I think violence can be beautiful, it depends which kind. Who doesn't like Napoleon or Alexander?

>> No.5007041

>>5007020
>Who doesn't like Napoleon or Alexander?
Tolstoy.

>> No.5007104

>>5007041
tolstoy was his days equivalent of an annoying hypocritical hippie with his holier than thou back to the land peasant life posturing

>> No.5007195

>>5007104
Yup. I adore him as an author, but I sort of agree with Thomas Ligotti that after his spiritual crisis and subsequent disowning of Anna Karenina the most logical thing to do would have been to kill himself.