[ 3 / biz / cgl / ck / diy / fa / ic / jp / lit / sci / vr / vt ] [ index / top / reports ] [ become a patron ] [ status ]
2023-11: Warosu is now out of extended maintenance.

/lit/ - Literature

View post   
File: 120 KB, 400x600, the-catcher-in-the-rye.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4975133 No.4975133 [Reply] [Original]

Why do so many people seem to misunderstand this book?

>> No.4975136

They're too casual to understand the concept of the unreliable narrator

>> No.4975199

>>4975133
>inb4 he raped his sister maymay XD

Yeah, CITR is about sexual abuse. Only in the capacity that Holden and his friend Jane were fucked like ragdolls when they were little kids.

>> No.4975326

What's the right way to understand it?
Anyone got a quick summary of what it "actually is about"?

>> No.4975334

>>4975326
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivJrxaSYmwI&list=FL8BL1oIW2gK0lq78QXJ7GwQ&index=4

Here's a good summary.

>> No.4975379

>>4975334
>Stefan Molyneux
Not even once.

>> No.4975381

>>4975133
Because they think it's their duty to sympathize with characters rather than empathize with them. In other words, they're poor readers.

>> No.4975386
File: 117 KB, 800x1242, crime-and-punishment-copy.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4975386

>>4975133
Why do so many people seem to misunderstand this book?

>> No.4975417

>>4975379
Who is he? I just liked his interpretation.

>> No.4975425

>>4975417
An anarchist that's kind of a pretentious prick

I agree with some of his ideas and he's good at explaining statistics but he's got his head shoved up his ass and insists that the world is going to fall into anarchy and chaos when world war 3 erupts and the global economy collapses

>> No.4975427
File: 2.93 MB, 300x169, C1ZpraK.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4975427

>>4975334
I fucken hate this guy with a passion.

>> No.4975435
File: 1003 KB, 498x377, 1399621315490.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4975435

>>4975334
>the book is about sexual abuse

THIS GUY IS A MEGA TROLL

>> No.4975450

>>4975435
What do you think it's about, guy?

>> No.4975458

>>4975450
I'm currently watching this bald jackass' critique.

He bases his argument on 3 somewhat relative instances in the book. He then goes off the deep end and plugs libertarian mantras all over the fucken place and never refers to the book again.

What a dildo.

Catcher is about A LOT of things--not just ONE thing.

>> No.4975464

>>4975386
I LOoOOOOOVeeeEEE yOOOuuuUUUU JESuuuUUUSSS KUH-RAAAAAAAYYYYSSTTTT

>> No.4975467

>>4975458
Sexual abuse being one of those things, guy.

>> No.4975469

>>4975386
>Crime and Punishment

I quit that shitty ass book right after the "protag" recovered from the flu and started telling people how he did the crime. Fucken stupid annoying ass book. "I took exactly five steps to the door," and 10 pages about the shoe return policy of a boot maker.

Great, now I'm mad about a book I dropped years ago. Hope your happy.

>> No.4975479

>>4975467
To quote egg-head:

>To me, the book is very simply about the after effects of sexual abuse

0:49

No it isn't you charlatan. Sexual abuse factors into the grand universe of Catcher, but it isn't "very simply about sexual abuse" and those themes are in no way related to the assassination of John Lennon and (attempted assassination) of Ronald Regan

I'm done with this stupidity.

>> No.4975511

>>4975469
g8 b8 m8 8/8

>> No.4975524

because their fragile egos are threatened by holden. they get defensive as they don't want to admit the pretentious naïve crap they really relate to.

>> No.4975655

more like why do so many people care about it at all?

that's what I'd like to know

>> No.4975681

>>4975435
I never noticed how the ball completely goes haywire but never hits any of them

>> No.4975686

>>4975681
Actually nevermind I guess it hits the big dude in the head but he doesnt even flinch. What a badxass

>> No.4975690

Lately I've been building a good part of my identity out of The Catcher In The Rye because it's my favourite book in the whole wide world, but I just recently finished Infinite Jest and I think I might like it better.............. what's a guy to do?

>> No.4975744

>>4975690
GREAT BAIT MATE

>> No.4975817

>>4975744
it really is though lol.

>> No.4975864

>>4975133
They don't understand that behind the book is an author who was 25 at D-Day and Bastogne and quite literally watched 17-22 year old boys get butchered and have their innocence stripped from them. He saw as kids from the front would come back off the line as hallowed as the ones who had their insides blown out. They don't understand that he hated the war because of the innocence lost and that he as so afraid of people at home seeing the war that he found a way to preach about his obsession to save innocence in a book that described, all the sights he saw in the war, every dead kid riddled with bullets, without ever having to mention the war at all. Granted, his recluse lifestyle didn't help this any, but you can't blame him. When he returned from Europe, he was the war. Everyday. He saw it and lived it. He hid himself so he could hide the war from innocent minds.

>> No.4975893

>>4975864
Ooo, das it mayne. I lyke dat.

>> No.4975935

>>4975864
Yea except in the Catcher Holden talks very specifically about the war for a good 10 pages. He ends with "I could never survive, I wouldn't make, I couldn't stand having to be around those type of army guys"

Something like that.

Anyway, I once tried to entertain the book being some kind of allegory to Salinger's time in the war, but it doesn't hold any water at all. Sure you could talk about it, but to point exactly to textual examples and argue persuasively would be very difficult and most likely not possible.

>> No.4975958

>>4975935
ALL HIS WRITINGS WHERE 1.ABOUT INNOCENCE 2.BUDDHISM 3.AN ALLEGORY TO THE FUCKING WAR


The people who have spent decades researching this mans life and everyone he had contact with are the ones who developed this

so go fuck yourself

Perfect Day for Bananfish? WWII vet who was detached from everything because of the disillusionment from the war who finally kills himself.

Goddamn, there are some fucking plebs who open their goddamn mouths about something they know nothing about.

>> No.4975979

>>4975958
We're talking about The Catcher in the Rye.

If you can't point exactly in the text that's supposed to be an "allegory to Salinger's time in WW2" then shut your whiny ass mouth.

In my memory of reading the book 3 times, I have yet to be able to point a finger to undeniable proof of this allegory you're so god damn sure of existing.

You're a literary weakling, you don't know who you're up against.

>> No.4975984

>>4975744
>>4975817

Thanks guys, I tried pretty hard with that one.

>> No.4976057

>>4975133
>>4975133
The book is largely about alienation.
Most people haven't experienced alienation in any profound way, so they can't parse any deep understanding of Holden, and can't relate to him.

So to most people the book might seem pretentious or like gibberish.

>>4975958
>ALL HIS WRITINGS WHERE 1.ABOUT INNOCENCE 2.BUDDHISM 3.AN ALLEGORY TO THE FUCKING WAR
I was not aware of this, but it makes perfect sense. A large chunk of Buddhism is about dealing with alienation, and war is a major source of alienation.

>> No.4976060

>>4975979
>You're a literary weakling, you don't know who you're up against.

Hahaha, shit, I like this.

>> No.4976073

>>4975979
Hah, I should see it no surprise to see this thread here. Is this John?

In all honesty, as I have pointed out, I really am not that intellectual. It is only that the masses, even on this board, are, in a word, idiots. If you read the complete works of the following you should be well on your way to becoming an intellectual. Yes, even you if it is you, John.

Epic of Gilgamesh
Homer
Plato
Virgil
The Bible (I almost wanted to not put this on the list, but it is important to know what's wrong to know what's right - see what Derrida says about Blue and Red, et al)
Dante
Kant
Schopenhauer
Kierkegaard
Nietzsche (also an underrated composer)
Dostoyevsky (the greatest writer since Socrates)
Joyce
Proust
Camus
Sartre
Barthes
Derrida
Wallace

I hardly think that any of these names need introducing or explaining. As for the rest of you imbeciles, it is your prerogative not mine to expand your narrow vocabularies. I'm going to go read now and you nimrods should too.

-A

>> No.4976077

>>4975469
>your happy.
I can see why you dropped it

>> No.4976078

>>4975133
It's a grail quest, guys.

>> No.4976083

>>4975133
The catcher in the rye is so fucking pleb, I mean really, what the fuck?

It's about growing up and realizing that life kinda sucks and no one wants to admit the truth about things
>wow such a fucking mystery
>>inb4 sister rape
someone else might have said the sister rape thing, but I don't understand it.

>>>It's really just about how growing up is hard in a world full of liars<<<
#holdena cauliflower #catching a pie

>> No.4976093

>>4976073
>prerogative
kek

>> No.4976141

>>4975334
WOAH
>>4976083
HERE, THAT MONEY GUY IS ON THE BALL HOLY SHIT

>> No.4976159

>>4975133
>Holden Caufield
>holding
>caul=womb
>field
>?????
>economical gain

>> No.4976237

>>4976073
>the greatest writer since Socrates

w-what?

>> No.4976273

Because it's cool and hip to be ageist and hate on teenagers even though they're going through a lot of problems.

>> No.4976287

>>4976073
dude did you just make this?

10 out of fucking 10 will save and post eternally

>> No.4976315

>>4976083
>Not seeing the irony of Holden blaming others for being liars
I mean, seriously? He literally blames his teacher for being a phony right fucking after bragging about how great he is at casually lying when needed. If anything, it's pleb for being so fucking blatant.

>> No.4976326

>>4976287
No, someone posted it a while ago. I'm adding
>You're a literary weakling, you don't know who you're up against.
on after "you nimrods should too." for next time.

>> No.4976329

>>4975334
Sexual abuse is obviously a running theme in The Catcher in the Rye, but it's very narrow-minded and deliberately ignorant of everything else that happens in the book to say it's the ONLY thing it's about.

It's a theme that factors into a larger picture tackling the loss of innocence and the expectation of youth to grow up too fast.

>> No.4976386

wasn't this book just about growing up? also, I got an unreliable narrator vibe from it. Like when he says he could've bedded a girl, but didn't, or hired a whore, and backed out at the last second. then the incident with the old teacher - either he got molested or his fear of being gay made him overreact and run off. I need to read the book again.

>> No.4976750

>>4975864
Great post. Seriously.

>> No.4976832

>>4976329
I agree, the book is about loss of innocence, that's pretty much it.

For some reason I believe True Faith from New Order was inspired in this book.

>> No.4976873

I'm surprised that so many people hate Holden. I just felt sorry for him the whole novel.

>> No.4976877
File: 1000 KB, 500x292, 1399531972129.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4976877

>>4976073
>side-steps and weasels out of talking about the supposed "WW2 allegory of the Catcher in the Rye"
>Does not provide textual examples of his previous assertions, instead just claims that there is a huge body of work by many authors asserting your baseless assertions
>Appeals to authority
>Lists "great thinkers" thinking that his proximity and familiarity with their works will give him authenticity
>Keirkegaard
>One of the most useless thinkers to ever exist, who was more famous for his hairdoo than any ground breaking ideas, principles, meditations, etc

You really are a kid you know that? A weak little pussy faggot dilettante who likes to hear himself speak, who knows nothing about anything, and who first and for most would like to be respected and regarded as a well read intellectual without actually being a well read intellectual.

You think that spouting something your professor said vaguely one lecture about how "catcher is a WW2 allegory" then being too lazy to pull any articles or hard textual examples affirming the fact is going to make you appear smart in front of your peers?

Guess what faggot, it only makes you look like the biggest faggot that ever faggot.

Consider yourself anally destroyed, you've earned it, faggot.

>> No.4976896

>>4976873
It's because they are shallow gay faggots whose ability to examine and judge a character is based solely on the criterion of whether or not they would like to be friends with them.

>> No.4976898

>>4975979
>You're a literary weakling, you don't know who you're up against.

oh lawd help this chile

>> No.4976923

>>4976896
>based solely on the criterion of whether or not they would like to be friends with them.
You give them wayyy to much credit.

A lot of literary faggot types love books with protags who are boring mumbling failures like themselves.

The audience no longer worships the ideal, they worship their imperfect selves.

>> No.4976928

>>4976877
>Consider yourself anally destroyed, you've earned it, faggot.

Okay so THAT COMMENT is all about sexual abuse.

But is it an allegory for ww2?

>> No.4976939

It's about some dude going around a city and stuff

>> No.4976943

>>4976877
Hah, I should see it no surprise to see this thread here. Is this John?

You really are a kid you know that? A weak little pussy faggot dilettante who likes to hear himself speak, who knows nothing about anything, and who first and for most would like to be respected and regarded as a well read intellectual without actually being a well read intellectual.

In all honesty, as I have pointed out, I really am not that intellectual. It is only that the masses, even on this board, are, in a word, idiots. If you read the complete works of the following you should be well on your way to becoming an intellectual. Yes, even you if it is you, John.

Epic of Gilgamesh
Homer
Plato
Virgil
The Bible (I almost wanted to not put this on the list, but it is important to know what's wrong to know what's right - see what Derrida says about Blue and Red, et al)
Dante
Kant
Schopenhauer
Kierkegaard
Nietzsche (also an underrated composer)
Dostoyevsky (the greatest writer since Socrates)
Joyce
Proust
Camus
Sartre
Barthes
Derrida
Wallace

I hardly think that any of these names need introducing or explaining. As for the rest of you imbeciles, it is your prerogative not mine to expand your narrow vocabularies. I'm going to go read now and you nimrods should too. You're a literary weakling, you don't know who you're up against.

-A

>> No.4976962 [DELETED] 

Hah, I should see it no surprise to see this thread here. Is this John?
You really are a kid you know that? A weak little pussy faggot dilettante who likes to hear himself speak, who knows nothing about anything, and who first and for most would like to be respected and regarded as a well read intellectual without actually being a well read intellectual.
>In all honesty, as I have pointed out, I really am not that intellectual. It is only that the masses, even on this board, are, in a word, idiots. If you read the complete works of the following you should be well on your way to becoming an intellectual. Yes, even you if it is you, John.

The Bible (It is important to know what's wrong to know what's right - see et al)

I hardly think that any of these names need introducing or explaining. As for the rest of you imbeciles, it is your prerogative not mine to expand your narrow vocabularies. I'm going to go read now and you nimrods should too. You're a literary weakling, you don't know who you're up against.
-A

>> No.4976966

Hah, I should see it no surprise to see this thread here. Is this John?

You really are a kid you know that? A weak little pussy faggot dilettante who likes to hear himself speak, who knows nothing about anything, and who first and for most would like to be respected and regarded as a well read intellectual without actually being a well read intellectual.

In all honesty, as I have pointed out, I really am not that intellectual. It is only that the masses, even on this board, are, in a word, idiots. If you read the complete works of the following you should be well on your way to becoming an intellectual. Yes, even you if it is you, John.
The Bible (I almost wanted to not put this on the list, but it is important to know what's wrong to know what's right - see what Derrida says about Blue and Red, et al)
THE BIBLE
THE BIBLE
THE BIBLE

I hardly think that any of these names need introducing or explaining. As for the rest of you imbeciles, it is your prerogative not mine to expand your narrow vocabularies. I'm going to go read now and you nimrods should too. You're a literary weakling, you don't know who you're up against.

>-A

>> No.4976984

How can I learn how to analyze books?

>> No.4976987

>>4975379
Why?
Just curious.
I have no knowledge of who he is.
Some libertarian anarchist according to wiki.

>> No.4977028

>>4976984
If you're in college, take a literature elective. Otherwise, just read a few examples of literary analysis to get a feel for what you're supposed to look for, and then start reading some books and doing it yourself. Try to find out how each character changes over the course of the book, what the author intended each character to represent, the book's overall theme, etc.

>> No.4977054

>>4976984
Get your hands on
>introduction to Spectroscopy 6th edition
and read it.

>> No.4977057
File: 36 KB, 500x652, 11C.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4977057

>>4975133
When I first read it, I liked the book very much, but as I thought it would happen to all teenagers because they felt identified with Holden, I started disliking even though I've never met anyone that actually did that. Now as everyone on lit likes The Catcher, I admit I really like it too.

>> No.4977477

Holden killed Stradlater by shoving his toothbrush into his spinal cord. All of the book after the fight with Stradlater is just an elaborate lie.

>> No.4977801

>>4975467
no guy, it'd about coming of age and the lose of innocence as holden transitions from childhood to adulthood. thats why he never porks any of those bishes. But more importantly it's about looking within before judging others. Holden sees the splinters in everyone but fails to see the 2 by 4 sticking out of him

>> No.4977808

>>4975524
wrong. You're not supposed to like or relate with holden. you're supposed to hate his hipocracy

>> No.4978866

>>4975199
where does it say he rapes his sister

>> No.4978975
File: 822 KB, 1920x1080, holden.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4978975

It's all about the wacky high jinks that a boy gets up to when he skips school.

>> No.4979027

>>4978866
when he was checking his sister's ass, and then his narration cut into checking the fridge

>> No.4979034

>I can't get into Cather in the Rye, the protagonist is so fucking unlikable
>I love Lolita

>> No.4979410

>>4976329
>It's a theme that factors into a larger picture tackling the loss of innocence and the expectation of youth to grow up too fast.
which happens after you've been sexually abused, of course you probably don't understand that because you've probably never been sexually abused so you don't take into account that this is basically J.D. Salinger admitting that it happened to be in a safe and shameless way.

>> No.4980215

>>4975864
Have you posted this in another thread? I swear I've seen it before, very interesting though.

>> No.4980653
File: 1.34 MB, 1681x2410, catcher-in-the-rye-cover-99.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4980653

Honestly I think the main theme in the book is the unreliability of our own consciousness of things, and the tenuous relationship between our consciousness and the world of illusory things and happenings, Holden's own repression of his rape and his raping being merely a part of Holden's general repression and suffering

>> No.4980682

>>4980215

I started a CITR thread, this guy was in it. Not a very open reading though. Nine Stories has a more explicit thematic relationship to the effects of the war.