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/lit/ - Literature

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4971085 No.4971085 [Reply] [Original]

So /lit/, who is really to blame for Postmodernism?
>a) Kant
>b) Stirner
>c) Heidegger
>d) Bachelard
>e) Lacan
etc.?

I hate this fucking school of thought and how the academy is still dominated by it. Who can we fully blame?

>> No.4971090

POSTMODERNISM IS NOT A "SCHOOL OF THOUGHT", THEREFORE YOUR QUESTION IS INVALID.

YOU ARE CONFLATING POSTMODERNISM, AND "CULTURAL MARXISM".

>> No.4971091

f) All of the above.

Also dafuq with claiming Kant as a predecessor to PoMo?

>> No.4971092

>>4971085

Hitler, basically.

>> No.4971094

>>4971091
>Also dafuq with claiming Kant as a predecessor to PoMo?

Something something time and space.

>> No.4971095
File: 6 KB, 250x470, ATHN MGNT.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4971095

"THE ACADEMIA"?

THAT IS A MISNOMER; IT IS NOT "ACADEMIA" –THE ACADEMIA OF ATHENA, BUT "LYCEUM" –THE LYCEUM OF APOLLO BY ARISTOTLE THE USURPER; ARISTOTLE THE WORSHIPER OF THAT PHOEBIAN DEITY, AN USURPER HIMSELF; USURPER OF THE SUN!

"THE LYCEUM": A PIT OF DEGENERATE WOLVES; AGGREGATE OF GENTILE MINDS.

LIGHTBRINGERS; THEY SHINE ONLY IN THE NIGHT; THE NIGHT OF THE SOUL, AND OF THE MIND.

>> No.4971096

>>4971092
this is a good answer actually

>> No.4971099

Ourselves. We can only blame ourselves.

>> No.4971102

Do you know anything about anything?

I seriously doubt you do OP. Please delete your thread.

>> No.4971105 [DELETED] 
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4971105

>>4971099

>yes, goy, blame yourself

>> No.4971109

People such as myself, who write post-modernist literature for shits and giggles

>> No.4971116

>>4971085
I blame Marx, Nietzsche, and Freud being taught to naive kids during the period of late capitalism.

>> No.4971131

Why not ask Frederic Jameson?

>> No.4971134

I blame the Absurdists, Dadaists, Surrealists, and Situationists.

Baudrillard jacked off to Jarry and Debord quite a bit.

>> No.4971139 [DELETED] 
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4971139

>>4971105
>goy

>> No.4971149 [DELETED] 

>>4971139

You now know that that is how zionist jews refer to nonjews –"goy" (pl. "goyim")

Or did you already know and are in denial?

>> No.4971155

>>4971149
>implying you're not a schebbesgoy

>> No.4971157

>>4971149
No, I'm perfectly aware. But with /pol/ creeping on these boards...

>> No.4971165

>>4971157

What? Why didn't you finish your sentence? Did you actually had anything to say?

>> No.4971170

>>4971085
I would say a mix between the last three coupled with shitty readings of Marx and Freud.

>> No.4971174

>>4971105
>>4971139
>>4971149
>>4971155
>>4971157
>>4971165
samefag

>> No.4971182

>>4971174
No, same, your the fag

>> No.4971183
File: 140 KB, 508x477, Cultural Marxism rrgagra.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4971183

>>4971090
>implying "cultural marxism" is a real thing.

>> No.4971187

>>4971085
How the fuck is Kant, the guy with a set categorical imperative, the father of pomo, where things are losely defined?

>> No.4971188

>>4971187
read the critique of judgement

>> No.4971190

>>4971183

THE FACT THAT SOMETHING CONFLICTS WITH YOUR WELTANSCHAUUNG DOES NOT MAKE IT NOT REAL.

>> No.4971192

>>4971090
do you actually think "cultural marxism" is a school of thought

duped

>> No.4971193

>>4971091
>>4971187
>>4971188
Also, kantian ethics are making a comeback thanks to PoMo. Look up Alenka Zupancic.

>> No.4971202
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4971202

>>4971085
Wait - people outside of France give a fuck about Bachelard?

And Stirner is basically useless if you've read Nietzsche. Stop giving that piece of shit who never grew out of his 16-year old mindset credit.

>> No.4971204

Post modernism is just western powers trying to overtake East to make their own art and culture relevant. It's more of a West vs East war than anything. Shows how industrialization led to capitalism which successfully effected every single aspect of our lives. Mainly due to romanticism of human entities, that every single person is special, which led to this movement.

>> No.4971205

>>4971085

Robert W. Chambers is to blame.

>> No.4971212

>>4971204
>Mainly due to romanticism of human entities, that every single person is special, which led to this movement.
Does that contradict antihumanism (which is the root of deconstructivism) though?

>> No.4971215

>>4971183
>dat pic
lol'd

>> No.4971221
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4971221

>>4971131
>implying jameson isn't a whiny bastard who seeks to revive 1960s marxist structuralist bullshit.

>> No.4971235

>>4971212
I'm not able enough to comment about it because it's mostly concerned with art which I'm not knowledgeable about. But philosophically, it's more about every single subjective ideology or opinion, no matter how dumb, being taken seriously. It's led to rise of egotivism. Very few extremely knowledgeable artists are able to fully appreciate the concept of deconstructivism. Others just use it to justify their own subjective work.

>> No.4971251

>>4971235
We had a thread on this yesterday, concerning postmodernism, antihumanism, and tumblr SJWs and whether or not antihumanist feminism's logical conclusion is Judith Butler's bullshit.

>> No.4971256

>>4971251
Could you kindly give me the outline of the opinions discussed in that thread?

>> No.4971264

>>4971256
They basically said Foucault is the anti-SJW, since he sees power as daily relationships rather than the binary presented by SJWs and their privilege theory. Also, Butler's stuff on gender contradicts the usual trans narrative about having a "female brain trapped in a male body" since she rejects the brain sex hypothesis. SJWs are entirely humanist and intersectionality is a profoundly humanist concept.

>> No.4971273 [DELETED] 

>>4971139
>look at these charts

/pol/iticians argue with facts like demographic and economic statistics, cultural marxists argue with muh feelings. I wonder what's more scientific.

>> No.4971278

>>4971273
"Cultural Marxists" often apply Historical Materialism, which is indeed scientific.

>> No.4971288

>>4971264
I guess I need to educate myself upon these topics before commenting on them, unlike many Tumblr sjw. But sjw are needed in today's world, they're the catalyst needed in this lazy world for people to defend certain ideologies. Otherwise people just stop caring. They play their own part, yes they do go to extreme measures but there's a difference between Internet sjw's and real life sjw's. Probably unrelated but just my opinion. I'd like to hear your views about them. Thank you for telling me about the point of discussion in the thread though :)

>> No.4971304

>>4971288
I hate SJWs because they're theoretically unsound and make all leftists look like whiny assholes.

>> No.4971308

>>4971278
Nope, it's pseudo-science at best.

>> No.4971309
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4971309

Michel Foucault is red-pill as fuck go back to Norway.

>> No.4971310

>>4971288
People fighting for social justice =! SJW

>> No.4971315

>>4971308
It's not.

Historical Materialism = science of history

Dialectical Materialism = science of method

HistMat is basically DiaMat applied to history, and has been proven effective in describing historical phenomena (which should pwn the "great men of history" narrative). Dialectics is also applied to the natural sciences quite well (think of Lewontin and Levins and also Stephen J. Gould).

>> No.4971319
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4971319

The precious goyim are solely responsible for this ideological trend, "PoMo."

>> No.4971322

>>4971085
It started with the Greeks.

>> No.4971323
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4971323

>>4971319
I see what you did there, this idea of Althusser and ideology and his short stout dead wife and so on and so on and so on and so on..

>> No.4971324

>>4971322
Literally everything in Western philosophy has its roots with the Greeks.

>> No.4971327

>>4971315
History isn't science in the first place. Social sciences are poorly framed statistics controlled for the sake confirmation bias. It's all bollocks. If you want to understand human nature, dedicate yourself to neurochemistry and biology. Humans are deterministic animals just like everything else on nature, if we apply ourselves we can definitely find all of the biological causal chains that determine every single one of our actions.

>> No.4971331
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4971331

>>4971319
Dude holy fuck that looks like something out of Aphex Twin

>> No.4971333
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4971333

>> No.4971335

>>4971331
>tfw australian winter really is here

>> No.4971340

>>4971085
>>b) Stirner
Can this guy just die forever?

>> No.4971354

>>4971319
Too soon, dude, too soon.

>> No.4971357

>>4971340
Karl Marx ate out his asshole too many times.

>> No.4971366

>>4971315
History isn't science. Philosophy in its current state is probably the furthest thing from science. Until lab equipment is moved into the philosophy department and we start seeing some hard data, its not a science.

>> No.4971370

>>4971366
Science is ultimately based on philosophy. There is no way of divorcing one from the other.

>> No.4971371

>>4971085
Marx. It was Marx all along.

>> No.4971375

>>4971366
Philosophy isn't science, but science is (natural) philosophy, they're not too far apart

>> No.4971376

>>4971366
>>>/reddit/

>> No.4971382

>>4971370
You're just an animal and your consciousness is just the result of chemical reactions and electric impulses. You have no will or control; everything you do is causally determined. A biological robot at best.

Deal with it and accept that metaphysics and social sciences are vanity at best.

>> No.4971384

>>4971327
hurr durr positivism

1/10 poor bait, made me respond

>> No.4971388
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4971388

Rorty, Foucault, and Hitler branched off from normal philosophy at Hegel.

Just say no to the oriental continental.

>> No.4971393

>>4971382

Have you read Kant?

>> No.4971396

>>4971382
Poor child,

vanitas vanitatum havent You heard?

>> No.4971399

>>4971388
analyticfag pls go

>> No.4971401
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4971401

>>4971366
>>4971382
>>4971388

>> No.4971406

can't wait for the technological singularity to happen so we humans are forced to accept our status as INFERIOR biological machines
i for one will accept my technological AI overlord

>> No.4971414

>>4971401
good goy

>> No.4971423

>>4971393
Have you read Schopenhauer tear apart Kant's circular logic?

>> No.4971431

>>4971423
This proves science kills philosophy, why?

>> No.4971437

>>4971085
Spinoza and Hegel.

>> No.4971438

>>4971431
It doesn't, but it proves how flawed the noumenon/phenomenon distinction is.

>> No.4971449

>>4971319
I blame this guy for contributing greatly to PoMo as well.

>> No.4971464

>>4971449
Antihumanism =/= pomo

By that logic, Nietzsche was also PoMo.

>> No.4971485

aristotle

>> No.4971487
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4971487

>> No.4971491

>>4971085
>to blame for Postmodernism
>I don't understand the concept I'm attempting to critique

>> No.4971496
File: 75 KB, 283x263, JewDeath.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4971496

>> No.4971503

>>4971491
>implying anyone can understand postmodernism to begin with
>>4971496
/pol/

>> No.4971505
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4971505

>> No.4971532

>>4971485
Why?

>> No.4971594

>>4971085
>Who can we fully blame?
The jews, obviously.

>> No.4971595

Postmodernism doesn't exist, OP.

>> No.4971602

>>4971595

But who was responsible for it not existing then?

Ontology of non-existence pls.

>> No.4971615

>>4971085
>I hate this fucking school of thought and how the academy is still dominated by it.

Fuck off - analytic philosophy dominates most philosophy departments in the world, and you can trace it back to Kant's influence among others. Sounds like you need to go back to /pol/

>> No.4971619

>>4971085
>Lacan
>pomo
does not compute
>>4971615
This

>> No.4971620

>>4971092
Hitler was a neoclassicist.

>> No.4971622

>>4971620
1+1=?

>> No.4971623

This thread made me remember about how in the early 20th century a smoking company hired Freuds nephew to increase the amount of women smokers (it was frowned on for women to smoke at the time), so he payed some women to go to a feminist rally and smoke calling their cigarettes "torches of freedom". By linking the ideology to the product, you couldn't reject smoking without rejecting womens rights. The campaign was a massive success.

It's that kind of shit that has set the tone for things like postmodernism.

>> No.4971629

>>4971623
This actually sounds like something a PoMo would say.
>ideology, ideology, ideology

>> No.4971676

>>4971464
So deconstructivism has absolutely nothing to do with antihumanism?

0/10 go back to school

>> No.4971677
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4971677

As-as a scholar, I have nothing, NOTHING but contempt-right, contempt, for Michel Foucault.

>> No.4971685

>>4971324
the greeks couldn't even conceptualize "0" tho

>> No.4971694

>>4971685

or the colour blue.

>>4971622

Answering as hitler? 1+1=THEJEEEWSDIDIT!

>> No.4971728

>>4971134
>blaming Dada, Surrealism, Absurdism and the IS for anything but freeing us from our prisons

Funny thing, Debord actually hated Postruc and PoMo

>> No.4971733

>>4971221
>implying marxist structuralist bullshit ever went away

>> No.4971745

>>4971728
Source pls.

>> No.4971774

>>4971745
There is more, but I'm at work. I do recall a text published in the SI's journal (not sure if on the 7-8 by Vaneigem or on the 11th by Debord) directly taking shots at Deleuze, Baudrillard and maybe Foucault.

I do know Debord sawy postruc analysis as a means of fragmentation (thus, spectacularization) of history and some sort of counter-situation (sorry, I can't remember the particular text in which he discuss this, it might even be on his personal correspondence, but I took a course on him with my teacher who's PhD on his stuff, and I also remember Anselm Jaap talking about this on a seminar a took a few years back)

Also, there's enough on this that you can branch out if you want to
http://www.notbored.org/debord-18March1976.html

>> No.4971790

>>4971366

Abandon thread

Good fucking going

>> No.4971798

>>4971790
You "philosophy isn't science" people never get tired.

This post was completely ignored and now you try to bring it back.

And I'm falling for it.

fug

>> No.4971840
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4971840

>>4971399

>> No.4971855

>>4971840
aw come on this one's made up.

>> No.4971860

>>4971840
>tips fedora

>> No.4971864

>>4971840
Dawkins, you fucking moron.

>> No.4971879

>>4971855
lel

https://twitter.com/RichardDawkins/status/334656775196393473

>> No.4971881

>>4971855
https://twitter.com/RichardDawkins/status/334656775196393473

>> No.4971905

>>4971840
l-lets hope he's being extremely ironic.

>> No.4971933

>>4971840
This is a pretty ridiculous statement, even for Dawkins.

>> No.4971937

>>4971905
>Implying Dawkins has the capacity to be nuanced enough to leave any doubt if he's being ironic or not

>> No.4971968

>>4971840
Dawkins really is a narrow minded imbecile isn't he? Just stick to the lab m8.

>> No.4971974

>>4971085
> how the academy is still dominated by it
no its fucking not outside of France and south america

>> No.4972000

>>4971085

Derrida and Foucault

>> No.4972004

>>4971968
This is why actual philosophy scholars laugh at "new atheists" and "scientism".

>> No.4972031

>>4971615
>>4971974

What a pedantic point.

Pomos have been focusing on administrations and political offices since the 90s in America. This has paid dividends as administration has become more powerful.

They don't need philosophy departments. But they have taken over other departments. There's a reason they're popular on /lit/.

>> No.4972070

>>4971879

His twitter twitter bio says "Dislikes pretentious obscurantism".

Postmodernism has ruined satire that's for sure.

>> No.4972072

>>4971193
Kantian ethics don't work without an objective moral law. How does that get reconciled with pomo

>> No.4972078

>>4971085
Socialist disillusionment with scientific reality and Liberal rejection of Conservatism.
The philosophical grounds for it are largely irrelevant in that respect as they are more often than not just a tool for politics.

>> No.4972104

>>4971085
Lacan isn't old enough to be a cause, but he did influence it although not willingly.

>> No.4972116

I blame Hitler

>> No.4972125

>Likes science, the poetry of reality
lmao

>> No.4972342

>/lit/ shits on dawkins for being supposedly dumb and srs
>can't see the frustration-irony-fuck-you type of sarcasm

If Hawkins said "philosophy is stupid because sophy is a dumb whore" you'd say he's just kidding but make it a bit more subtle and suddenly you're 9leddit tier of hivemind.
I don't even care about the old man but this is getting out of hand.

Like someoen else said in here he just shits on Obscurantist Pretentious Cunts while being cute in his own way.
I'm cringing with this thread, it belongs to a cringethread, how the fuck did you miss this.
I'm dissapointed in your /lit/

>> No.4972493

>>4972072
Like I said, look up Zupancic's book on the topic. She's a lacanian like Zizek.

>> No.4972494
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4972494

>>4971968
>>4971937
>>4971933
>>4971905
>>4971864
>>4971860
>>4971855

>> No.4972509

>>4971366
>systematic knowledge of the physical or material world gained through observation and experimentation.

>see some shit written down in a logical, systematic form
>think about it
>write some shit down in a logical, systematic form.

yup sounds like science to me.

>> No.4972516

>>4972494
what?

>> No.4972520

>>4972494
Wow, the polymath Sam Harris has blown my puny brain again. Bravo.

>> No.4972528

>>4972104
How so?

>> No.4972531

>>4972494
"When the chip is down, these Christian and Muslim people, they'll eat each other"
-The Jester from the Dark Knight

>> No.4972930

World War I

>> No.4973454

>>4972520
>Sam Harris
>polymath
>autistic neocon sociopathy writ large
Pick one

>> No.4973760

>>4971327
We can't predict the weather.

>> No.4973761

>postmodernism
>"a school of thought"
why is lit a shit?

>> No.4973833

>>4972493
I read her book on Nietzsche and Lacan and liked it a lot, personal area of interest of mine, but she literally cribbed a Zizek joke word for word at one point.

Some people say Deleuze and Foucault are secretly Kantians. Something something enlightenment.

>> No.4975283

How is this thread still going?

>> No.4975395

>>4973833
Deleuze called Foucault an idealist IIRC.

>she literally cribbed a Zizek joke word for word
Waaaaaaaa??? People take Zizek seriously?

>> No.4975688
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4975688

>>4972004
Real philosophy scholars have been comfortable with applying scientific or logical principles to things like ethics since Moore and Dewey. There was a hiccup with logical positivists, but they weren't continentals or abandoned notions of truth.

There are some legitimate issues 'real scholars' of philosophy have with new atheists, but shitting on continentals and avoiding 'scientism' isn't one of them.

There are some philosophers that are concerned with these things, but they get overrepresented in the press and book reviews and such, because both of these are full of dumb faggots from the rest of the humanities that abandoned all attempts at thinking brain thoughts in the late 60s.

>> No.4975707

>>4975283
pomo bashing is the cool thing to do on /lit/. easy enough to just call them frauds, con-artists, obscurantists or whatever, then you go, google some random deleuze quote and post it whenever people question you and that counts as "having" an "opinion" and "defending" it on an argument. you can be clueless enough to call bachelard a relevant influence to pomo (clearly after seeing in his wikipedia article that he "influenced" the likes of derrida) while clearly not having read him. but that's not important on this board, is it?

>> No.4975846

>>4971264
SJWs are anti-humanist, but that fails to say anything interesting about their position.

>> No.4975875

>>4971615
The reason pomos can't into philosophy is because when you believe there are no reals, only power, and that's to be subverted, you're probably not good at making intelligible mouth noises.

Unfortunately, philosophers like arguing, and intelligible mouth noises are required for this.

>> No.4975883

The second Wittgenstein.

>> No.4976056

>>4975846
How are they anti-humanist?

>> No.4976063

>>4975846
By that logic, radical feminists and critical race theorists are also theoretical antihumanists.

Intersectionality is also a humanist concept.

>> No.4976151

>>4975846
>antihuamnist
>moralistic
pick one