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4937914 No.4937914 [Reply] [Original]

Are we still living in a post-9/11 society?

Postmodernism thread.

>> No.4937922

Nah we're definitely pre-9/11 by now

>> No.4937923

Let me check real quick that the year 2014 takes place after 9/11/2001

Hmmm...

Yup, it does, we are post-9/11

>> No.4937929

>>4937922
this

it's may

>> No.4937931

9/11 is happening rn. I am so traumatized because this is literally the only thing that's happened and happening and will happen because the world has stopped revolving around me. Other people exist, what is this pleb shit doing near me.

>> No.4937940

>>4937914

It was 13 years ago, so yeah, we're living in a post 9/11 socie-
>postmodernism thread
Oh. Well, let me rephrase my answer.
If one examines the postcapitalist paradigm of expression, one is faced with a choice: either accept realism or conclude that class has intrinsic meaning. The subject is interpolated into a Derridaist reading that includes narrativity as a whole. But Baudrillard’s analysis of neodeconstructivist socialism states that discourse is a product of communication, but only if structuralist objectivism is invalid; if that is not the case, we can assume that culture serves to marginalize the Other.
The characteristic theme of the works of Gaiman is the common ground between society and sexuality. The main theme of McElwaine’s critique of neodeconstructivist socialism is the role of the participant as poet. However, la Tournier suggests that we have to choose between Foucaultist power relations and postcultural Marxism.
A number of narratives concerning not, in fact, discourse, but prediscourse may be discovered. In a sense, Sartre uses the term ‘neodeconstructivist socialism’ to denote the absurdity, and eventually the genre, of capitalist sexual identity.
If realism holds, we have to choose between neodeconstructivist socialism and subtextual cultural theory. However, the subject is contextualised into a realism that includes art as a totality.
Several narratives concerning neodeconstructivist socialism exist. Therefore, the primary theme of the works of Madonna is the bridge between society and class.

>> No.4937948
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4937948

>>4937940
great album

>> No.4937957

>>4937940

Well, that's your opinion, and you're entitled to it.

>> No.4937970

Best interview on 9/11 ever

http://www.press.uchicago.edu/books/derrida/derrida911.html

>> No.4937982

>post-X
you're like those people who make shit in rpg maker and then sell it as "roguelike-like"

>> No.4937985

>>4937970
Hory shr i did not know this existed, thx

>> No.4937995

>>4937970

This is both irritating and fascinating.

He seems to think "answer the question" means "solve the question".

>> No.4938002

Holy shit Derrida can mince words into subatomic particles.

>> No.4938255

>>4938002
That's his shtick. His philosophy is an infinitely recursive series of posturing acts and obfuscations. Nothing more, nothing less.

>> No.4938264

Depends on what you interpret the post-9/11 world to be.

If that world is paranoia out the ass, I'd say we're still there.

>> No.4938289

yeah

>> No.4938293

Umm... duh. Unless we travel back in time we will always be living in a post-9/11 society.

>> No.4938332

Until someone blows the whistle on 9/11...

>> No.4938381

>>4937914
>Are we still living in a post-9/11 society?

NSA, war in Middle East still going swimmingly, hatred of Muslims climbing every day... yeah I'd say so.

>> No.4938385

>>4937970
Derrida had to be autistic. No philosopher is this dumb to actually bring this shit to the table for a simple question.

>> No.4939217

>>4938385
A lot of them are. They're called postmodernists.

>> No.4939228

>>4937914
>Postmodernism

Hey, sparky, if all ideas are equally valid, why do you need to know them in the first place?

>> No.4939231
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4939231

>>4939228
You don't.

>> No.4939553

>>4937970
This isn't as illegible as I thought it would be. I don't see why they give him so much shit.

>> No.4939801
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4939801

>implying we weren't always living in a post-9/11 world

>> No.4940051
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4940051

>>4937970
>"le 11 septembre"

HUR DURrida is a total summerfag, he needs to go back to reddit.

>> No.4940140

It's now a post-Snowden world.

>> No.4940154

ACADEMIA IS CORRUPT
PHILOSOPHY IS KILL
GAS THE POSTMODERNISTS
GENOCIDE NOW

>> No.4940164

We should forget 9/11 because then the hijacker's souls won't be eternal.

>> No.4940179
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4940179

>>4937914

Who knows OP, maybe it didn't happen at all.

>> No.4940210

We actually live in a pre-911 society

>> No.4940428

Were people hit by falling pieces of glass below?

>> No.4940835

9/11 was just the wake up call of the 90s dream for americanfags I guess

Didn't matter that much for rest of the world

>> No.4940838

>>4940835
That's what Iraqis have been saying.

>> No.4940882
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4940882

Postmodernism and continentals are only useful for dealing with the crushing depression with wasting your life taking it seriously.

Like religion. Kierkegaard puts it well when he talks about how doubt and faith feed each other, but he was too invested by then to realize the horrible mistake he'd made.

>> No.4940889

>>4940882
>Like religion. Kierkegaard puts it well when he talks about how doubt and faith feed each other, but he was too invested by then to realize the horrible mistake he'd made.

Which was?

>> No.4940908

>>4939553
>because they don't read Derrida

>> No.4940932

>>4940889
Faith is a sunk cost

http://lesswrong.com/lw/at/sunk_cost_fallacy/

>> No.4940972

>>4937970
This is really interesting. What's he trying to say with that last point about deconstructing a new Europe against the American hegemony?

>> No.4941026

>>4940932

How is faith a sunk cost, and what would faith being a sunk cost have to do with faith "feeding" doubt?

>> No.4941033
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4941033

>>4937970
>Was 9/11 an importan historical event?
>LOL WHO KNOWS BRUH I MEAN WHAT DOES THE TERM EVENT MEAN ANYWAY I MEAN WE CALL IT 9/11 BUT THAT'S JUST RHETORIC THE MEDIA USES TO TALK ABOUT SOMETHING WE CAN'T EVEN TOUCH LIKE WHAT DOES THAT EVEN MEAN YOU KNOW?
>Where were you on 9/11?
>Oh yeah I was in China

This fucking guy.

>> No.4941042

>>4941033
Mate it's 5 weeks after 9/11, put it in perspective.

>> No.4941047

>>4940932
That doesn't make any sense. Things aren't "paid for" in faith. Faith is a task for a lifetime.

>> No.4941053

>>4941033
>yet another person on the internet who thinks caricaturing in all caps is clever and not dishonest

>> No.4941054

>>4941042
That answer wouldn't even make sense a day after 9/11. He had a month to figure out that the answer is fucking "Yes," and he failed miserably.

>> No.4941059

>>4941053
>maybe if I just whine about dishonesty instead of actually defending dadaist nonsense no one will call me on it

At least you tried.

>> No.4941063

>>4941042
>Mate it's 5 weeks after 9/11
He had 5 weeks to think about this and still couldn't figure out if it was an important historical event? So far Derrida is anything but impressive.

>> No.4941064

>>4941047
>task for a lifetime

Sunk cost confirmed.

>> No.4941067

>>4941033
>>>/v/

>> No.4941069
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4941069

Oh God, Derrida. Errytime.

It's not that I have anything personal against the man or his beliefs, but he's just so impossibly horrid at communicating ideas in anything approaching a logical fashion. He takes ideas that could be effectively and fully communicated in a single sentence, and then extends them into multiple paragraph screeds, yet still not managing to instill any more meaning than if he just went with the single sentence. It's like trying to read a report from a student there they use the Microsoft Word thesaurus to artificially extend everything, almost to the breaking point where it ceases to make sense anymore.

>> No.4941070

>>4941059
>derrida is 'dadaist'

>> No.4941073

>>4941067
>>>/out/

>> No.4941074

>>4941064
Faith constantly involves the present at the dispense of the past. Nothing is paid for. You have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to either sunk costs or faith.

>> No.4941081

>>4941069
>i'm stupid

>> No.4941093
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4941093

>>4941081
>>4941070
>>4941067
This is about the most sophisticated level of discourse I've come to expect from postmodernism.

>> No.4941102

>>4941074
>faith is not paid for
Oh fuck, you must be southern or something. An investment is not a paying for something, its money that's used to return more money later. Read the article.

>> No.4941116

>Faith constantly involves the present at the dispense of the past.

This is why you can't see the fallacy of doing the same thing over and over. Of course if you live in some time bubble where the past doesn't exist you're going to keep doing something that doesn't actually assuage the doubt faith causes.

>> No.4941118

>>4941102
Falling back on a Lesswrong post about the definition of sunk cost doesn't get you out of explaining how faith is somehow a sunk cost. Especially not by suddenly referring to it as an investment, which is mentioned nowhere in the post you're dodgingly referring him to.

>> No.4941176

>>4941118
ctrl f is not reading. Go back and read it.

>> No.4941216

>>4939228
who is sparky?

>> No.4941222

>>4941176
Take your own advice, kiddo. Your post is about sunk cost, not investment. And, the point which you are still laughably attempting to evade, is that the post is most notably not about faith.

>> No.4941249
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4941249

>>4941222
You still haven't read the article. I'm disappointed in you.

Faith -> Faith causes doubts
Faith causes doubts -> futile attempt to retrieve sunken faith, with more faith

investment -> investment sinks
investment sinks -> futile attempt to retrieve sunken investment with more investment

Kierkegaard tries to find another reason to justify faith, which happens to include more faith. Classic sunk cost behavior.

>> No.4941287

>>4941249
You don't have to save face with me anon. I already know that you know you made a mistake by trying to appeal to an irrelevant article, as evidenced by your utter inability to cite even one part of the scant five paragraphs mentioning either faith or investment. No matter, though. I'll take it as an admission of your mistake.

Now that you've finally formulated your own argument, here's where it falls apart. The economic concept of sunk cost does not map onto your concept of "sunken faith." Faith is not something retrieved, in much the same way that it is not spent, as the other anon pointed out to you already.

But that's his conversation. In the meantime, try to take away from this the fact that you should probably understand the arguments you're trying to make before you make them. That way you don't spend an hour evading every inquiry into your point with "well, um, er, read this random link that has nothing to do with the topic of conversation."

>> No.4941307

>>4941287
People become more faithful when faced with doubts. This is causation, and it's what faith for. Not just religious faith, either.

It's also irrational.

>> No.4941316

>>4941307
>People become more faithful when faced with doubts.

Citation needed.

>> No.4941322

>>4937940

You win

>> No.4941386

>>4941316
Kierkegaard.

>> No.4941447

>>4940972
I have the same question. It was all quite clear up until the last paragraph. Something about wanting a government that is able to respect and work in tandem with religious influencers? It was also not clear what America had forgotten about the Enlightenment.

>> No.4941451

>>4941033
I read it expecting to have your reaction, but you sound like a twat who was too lazy to read past the first two paragraphs.

>> No.4941452

>>4941054
His answer was "yes." It was such a significant event that we all instantly knew it was going to change the world and we couldn't even come up with words to describe it.

>> No.4941461

>>4941081
I agree with him to an extent. I don't want to read 4 pages that could be effectively communicated in 4 paragraphs. I would rather read 4 pages of actual effective writing.

>> No.4941466
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4941466

>>4937970
>http://www.press.uchicago.edu/books/derrida/derrida911.html

Shit-ass interviewer couldn't tell that Derrida didn't want to talk about tragedy, he wanted to talk about fucking language and time. This could have been gold if Derrida had a dialectic partner. Instead, Derrida just throws down some hard-ass philosophy of language in his first response and the interviewer just turns it to this banal question of "hurr where were you when the planes hit the towers."

Jesus christ, I always hate to see interesting people get interviewed by dumbasses. Basically, it makes me cringe and I have to close out. It happens with my favorite musicians all the time. Fucking fuck-ass interviewers.

>> No.4941477

>>4941466

Interviewer doesn't care what Derrida wants to talk about. Role of interviewer is to obtain answers to interviewer's questions. Role of interviewer is not to lend a sympathetic ear to to raving interviewees who would rather not answer questions.

>> No.4941494

>>4941477

Then the interviewer has an agenda about something other than the interviewee. The only reason why people read interviews is because they want to peer into the life of the interviewee.

>> No.4941496

>>4941477
What thats bullshit, the whole point of interviews is the person being interviewed

>> No.4941498

>>4941466
>sensitive to my hero's desires
>only I could meet them
>reaction gifs

What an annoying little fan girl you are.

>> No.4941500

>>4941494
aw shit son your post number is symmetrical

>> No.4941580

>>4941498

Fuck you bitch, I haven't even read Derrida. In fact, he sounds like a real problem of an author, but that doesn't make him uninteresting to interview. You could interview a bum on the street and have an interesting conversation.

>> No.4941583
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4941583

>>4941500

So are my sentences, suck-ass.

Also, nice dubs.

>> No.4942687

It's fascinating how easily bamboozled nonintellectuals are by flowery, obfuscatory language. Derrida takes ten minutes to say "I don't know, but the repetition of the term 9/11 cements reinforces the idea that it was an important historical event, so time will tell," and people think what he's saying is in any way profound. It's really a perfect consummation of the postmodernist movement.