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/lit/ - Literature

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4916972 No.4916972[DELETED]  [Reply] [Original]

modernist sensibilities --> existential --> nihilist --> postmodern hedonism.

So /lit/ where do you fall? Have you made it past modernism yet, or are you still out there in earnest?

>> No.4916975

>checking if /lit/'s menstrual cycles have synched

>> No.4916979

>you will never find out that /lit/ is 95% female and it's just you and a dozen other guys
>you will never kill all those other guys and bang your /lit/ harem forever

>> No.4917022

Modernist privilege = having to read Lenin because 'fiction' doesn't explain 'real' life.

>> No.4917034

>>4917022
I actually know a ubertwat who got into leninism and claims he doesn't read fiction because "it's just fiction"

He also didn't know what the School of Frankfurt was, never heard of May of 68, the Battle for Seattle, didn't read post-structuralism because "it's not revolutionary enough", dismissed the entirety of the Situationist International as "art, not politics" and won't read leftist socialism because "it can't work".

>> No.4917041

Moral nihilist egoist. Stirner was ahead of the curve

>>4917034
Communism is infected with Leninists. They're the main reason that leftism won't go anywhere in our lifetimes.

>> No.4917045

>>4917041
Funny you should reply, I've borrowed the Ego and it's Own to him only to get it back two days later with "this won't go anywhere, he doesn't even have a point, how anyone would consider this revolutionary is bizarre to me" or something like that.

I've actually started to take notes on his wonderful ideas with a friend, we plan to start a blog about it

>> No.4917047

>>4917034
this anti-intellectualism must be somewhere in lenin - I've never read his work, but it seems a lot of leninist don't like fiction fro this reason. he must have warned them the fiction writers were out to stop their revolutions or something lool

>> No.4917048

>>4916972
>picking labels.

>> No.4917052

>>4917048
>i don't really like to like, label myself man, like we just play music you know, i dont want to box myself in, we're like a lot of genres together
>in a pop-punk band

>> No.4917060

>>4917034
Don't worry, he's just an idiot.

>> No.4917061
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4917061

>>4917052

>> No.4917064

>>4917047
well that's just idiotic.

lenin became a revolutionary because he read chernyshevsky's novel 'what is to be done?' he even named his first major work after it

>> No.4917067

I don't even know, I've been rereading Debord and getting into more and more stuff by the situationists (when I first read Society of the Spectacle my english wasn't good enough and there weren't translations to portuguese of their journals) and I guess one could see them as somewhat of a conclusion to modernism while also not being post-modern.

They're DEFINITELY not existential or nihilist, though.

>>4917047
I didn't had that much contact with people from leftist circles before going to college, back then it was just me and a couple of friends interested in anarchism but trying to go beyond the usual Bakunin-Hakim Bey-Crass that seemed so prevalent in our region's punk rock circles.

These days I wish I could go back to when people at least read fucking Hakim Bey and not just kept jerking off to fucking Lenin and Mao forever.

Can't people understand that sort of pyramidal organization failed and that state capitalism is not the answer? Must they adhere to a fucking messianic leader so bad?

>>4917047

>> No.4917068

what is modernist sensibilities?

>> No.4917088

>>4917067
Lenin is far more of a complicated figure than you make out. After he returned to Russia in 1917 and wrote the April Theses and State and Revolution he was accused of anarchism by Orthodox Marxists. Plekhanov said that Lenin was the 'heir to the throne of Bakunin'.

The degeneration of the Bolshevik revolution had as much to do with material circumstances as the personal failure of Lenin.

>> No.4917097

>>4917088
I'm looking for some literature on the early days of the revolution, the soviets, it's alleged failure and the formation of the centralized bolshevik state. Would love
some recommendations on that.

I'm really biased against state socialism because honestly, it's not my thing, I can only see it always getting more and more centralized, bureaucratic and counter revolutionary, and have a particular problem with Lenin due to his treatment of Kropotkin and the platformists, and his "Left Socialism is a Childish Disease" pamphlet

>> No.4917134

>>4917097
>I'm looking for some literature on the early days of the revolution, the soviets, it's alleged failure and the formation of the centralized bolshevik state. Would love some recommendations on that.

John Reed's 10 Days That Shook The World
Alexander Rabinowich's Bolsheviks In Power is not bad, even though it's written by a liberal (from a family of Kadets)
Maurice Brinton's pamphlet The Bolsheviks and Workers Control is good IF you keep in mind the distinction between the Soviets and factory councils. Amadeo Bordiga wrote a lot about the limits to workers control and I would recommend some of his texts.

>I'm really biased against state socialism because honestly, it's not my thing, I can only see it always getting more and more centralized, bureaucratic and counter revolutionary

I really recommend you read State and Revolution. It really explodes the myth that Lenin was an evil state socialist authoritarian. At least in 1917. The bureaucratisation and degeneration of working class power in Russia wasn't a Bolshevik master plan but an inevitable result of the failure of the revolution in western Europe and the mass slaughter and destruction of the civil war in Russia.

>and have a particular problem with Lenin due to his treatment of Kropotkin and the platformists,

I like Kropotkin's stuff, Mutual Aid and the Conquest of Bread are good. But keep in mind that he chose to join forces with the Entente during WW1 and support the Russian bourgeoisie in slaughtering millions of working class people in an imperialist war. Platformists are basically vanguardists using anarchist rhetoric.

>and his "Left Socialism is a Childish Disease" pamphlet

Funny you should say that, since I'm of the Left Communist tradition that Lenin argued against in that pamphlet. And yes, it is pretty awful. Lenin was trying to transfer methods that worked in Russia to western Europe without any understanding of the material conditions there. Have you read Herman Gorter's reply?

>> No.4917144
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4917144

How can I even appreciate this conversation?

>> No.4917149

postmodern hedonism --> 'in the aeroplane over the sea' by Neutral milk hotel

>> No.4917154

>>4917134
The "Kropotkin supported the entente" critique is really hard to avoid for me, partly because I agree with it, but then again, I REALLY can see the despair one is met with when put against a situation such as WWI.

As for Gorter's reply no, I haven't, as I said a couple of posts above, I just recently (2 years or so) got back into reading politics, I used to read a lot of anarchist and situationist inspired stuff when I was 16 or so, but steered away from it because I didn't really had people to talk about it, and for reasons unknown, I can only properly absorb something if I put it out.

I'm currently getting into more "traditional" Marxist authors, just the other day I got me a Castoriadis book, and I'm sort of rediscovering (actually, actually understanding, since when I first read his stuff I was somewhat dumber) Baudrillard.

But I'll look after those books you've recommended, thanks.

>> No.4917165

>Leftist Communists
>creating a society based in reality
Your lack of attention and action in the real world is why Capitalism has won.

>> No.4917176

>>4917165
>Capitalism has won
implying the Russians are not still at work to carry out the grand master plan

>> No.4917185

>>4917176
>Putin
>Not a Neo fascist Corporatist
Just because someone attacks Western Liberal Democracies, that doesn't make them Communist, let alone a Leftist Revolutionary

>> No.4917190

>>4917154
That's cool. Debord and the Situationist International (who I really love) are actually ultra-pure Marxists at their core, more traditional than the so called 'orthodox' Leninists.

>but then again, I REALLY can see the despair one is met with when put against a situation such as WWI.

I don't see that at all. Communists do not send workers into war to kill each other for the benefit of the ruling class. Simple as. The capitulation of the Second International on this issue was probably the worst betrayal in modern history.

>> No.4917192

>>4917185
I was reading some shit by Duguin and it baffles me that a fucking state leader listens to that lunatic

>> No.4917209

>>4917185
>putin
>acting alone
>the kgb
>'disbanded'
M8 they are still hard at work pulling secretive maneuvers and deceptions to bring the world to a glorious communist conclusions

>> No.4917219

oh man. imagine if putin and the billionaire yacht NBA russian oligarchs are actually communists in disguise? I kind of hope that is true,would be pretty cool to read about.

>> No.4917235

>>4917190
It's good to see someone who flat out mentions SI's marxism, since most of my (anarchist) friends do all sorts of mental aerobics to justify their non-marxism.

And I guess Kropotkin writing on the behalf of the Entente (which I know he did, though I never went after it) was his worst mistake, the despair I mention is purely personal and shouldn't have intervened in his politics

>> No.4917247

>>4917219
>>4917209
Really hard to tell if this is a case of super autism or some form of trolling. Most likely both.
>>4917192
As a Strasserite I'm perfectly fine with Dagin

>> No.4917265

>>4917247
According to former GRU Colonel Stanislav Lunev, "SVR and GRU (Russia's political and military intelligence agencies, respectively) are operating against the U.S. in a much more active manner than they were during even the hottest days of the Cold War."[11] From the end of 1980s, KGB and later SVR began to create "a second echelon" of "auxiliary agents in addition to our main weapons, illegals and special agents", according to former SVR officer Kouzminov.[7] These agents are legal immigrants, including scientists and other professionals. Another SVR officer who defected to Britain in 1996 described details about thousand Russian agents and intelligence officers, some of them "illegals" who live under deep cover abroad.[3] Recently caught Russian high-profile agents in US are Aldrich Hazen Ames, Harold James Nicholson, Earl Edwin Pitts, Robert Philip Hanssen and George Trofimoff.


More than that is kind of funny to think about tiny little anti-capitalist groups that meet in bars and libraries playing leftist - or little academic university students talking about Lenin or Marx b/c of their petitbourgeois leisure time allows them this, and give them a physically notable sense of smugness - when meanwhile the big boys are out there making things happen.

>> No.4917268

>>4917190
>That's cool. Debord and the Situationist International (who I really love) are actually ultra-pure Marxists at their core, more traditional than the so called 'orthodox' Leninists.

highly debatable. I don't know about 'at their core' but I think the fact alone that they call themselves Marxists doesn't mean that it is a very useful way to categorize them.

>> No.4917277

>>4917247
>calling ideas you don't like autism or trolling
Typical

>> No.4917281

>>4917268
They pretty obviously take Marx's Economic and Philosophic Manuscripts of 1844 as the basis of their work. If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck...

>> No.4917284

>>4917265
Once again, attacking Western Liberal Democracies doesn't fucking make you a Communist, rofl. This is for strategic military operations and if anything is to create a Eurasian superpower to hold its own against the US. It'll be Neo Fascist not Communist.

>> No.4917290

>>4917277
No, I call crazy and illogical ideas autistic because they're crazy and illogical.

>> No.4917296

>>4917284
I think you imply they are thinking only maybe 50-100 years ahead. I assume they are planning much longer than that. I mean, they don't think so short like americans do.

I am only speculating and think it is fun to thnk about sheeh. It is entirely possible.

>> No.4917298

>>4917296
sheesh*

>> No.4917310

>>4917281
>Economic and Philosophic Manuscripts of 1844

Those are even before the genesis of historical materlialism... not really what is referred to as 'Marxism' for the most part.

>> No.4917999

jesus christ you double niggers. can any of you even answer the original question?

>> No.4918191

>postmodern hedonism.

"I don't know why we are here, but I'm pretty sure that it is not in order to enjoy ourselves." Wittgenstein

>> No.4918196

>>4918191
>Anonymous 05/21/14(Wed)18:07:46 No.4918191▶
>>postmodern hedonism.
>"I don't know why we are here, but I'm pretty sure that it is not in order to enjoy ourselves." Wittgenstein

One of my favourite quotes

>> No.4918230

>>4918196

"so po-mo i just came"
- me

>> No.4918232
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4918232

>>4918191
Does Wittgenstein not enjoy philosophizing?

>> No.4918242

>>4918232
Not sure Wittgenstein enjoyed anything really... except maybe watching Westerns. Witty's the very definition of a tortured soul.

>> No.4918251

>>4918242
Slapping children. He liked doing that.

>> No.4918264

>>4918251
Didn't he slap a child to death?

>> No.4918276

>>4918251
just to feel bad about it afterwards

>> No.4918285

>>4918264
From the Wikipedia article

He moved schools again in September 1924, this time to Otterthal, near Trattenbach; the socialist headmaster, Josef Putre, was someone Wittgenstein had become friends with while at Trattenbach. While he was there, he wrote a 42-page pronunciation and spelling dictionary for the children, Wörterbuch für Volksschulen, published in Vienna in 1926 by Hölder-Pichler-Tempsky, the only book of his apart from the Tractatus that was published in his lifetime.[114] A first edition sold in 2005 for £75,000.[122]

An incident occurred in April 1926 and became known as Der Vorfall Haidbauer (the Haidbauer incident). Josef Haidbauer was an 11-year-old pupil whose father had died and whose mother worked as a local maid. He was a slow learner, and one day Wittgenstein hit him two or three times on the head, causing him to collapse. Wittgenstein carried him to the headmaster's office, then quickly left the school, bumping into a parent, Herr Piribauer, on the way out. Piribauer had been sent for by the children when they saw Haidbauer collapse; Wittgenstein had previously pulled Piribauer's daughter, Hermine, so hard by the ears that her ears had bled.[123] Piribauer said that when he met Wittgenstein in the hall that day: "I called him all the names under the sun. I told him he wasn't a teacher, he was an animal-trainer! And that I was going to fetch the police right away!"[123]

Piribauer tried to have Wittgenstein arrested, but the village's police station was empty, and when he tried again the next day he was told Wittgenstein had disappeared. On 28 April 1926, Wittgenstein handed in his resignation to Wilhelm Kundt, a local school inspector, who tried to persuade him to stay; however, Wittgenstein was adamant that his days as a schoolteacher were over.[123] Proceedings were initiated in May, and the judge ordered a psychiatric report; in August 1926 a letter to Wittgenstein from a friend, Ludwig Hänsel, indicates that hearings were ongoing, but nothing is known about the case after that. Alexander Waugh writes that Wittgenstein's family and their money may have had a hand in covering things up. Waugh writes that Haidbauer died shortly afterwards of haemophilia; Monk says he died when he was 14 of leukaemia.[124]

Ten years later, in 1936, as part of a series of "confessions" he engaged in that year, Wittgenstein appeared without warning at the village saying he wanted to confess personally and ask for pardon from the children he had hit. He visited at least four of the children, including Hermine Piribauer, who apparently replied only with a "Ja, ja"

>> No.4918287

catholic -> secular humanist atheist -> yogi/buddhist -> epicurean -> schizo-occult techno-nihilist post-human tantric-alchemist

>> No.4918288

>>4918285
Oh snap, I just assumed the selection was too big to post. Figured I'd hit "post" so it'd tell me how many letters I have to cut out.

Oops.

>> No.4918294

>>4918287
>if you're going to lapse, do it right

>> No.4918311

>>4918242
>.. except maybe watching Westerns.
eating cream donuts while