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/lit/ - Literature

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4898639 No.4898639[DELETED]  [Reply] [Original]

How did you overcome nihilism?

>> No.4898667

I embraced myself as infinity.

>> No.4898681

>>4898667
lol

>> No.4898683

You cushion the blow of life to yourself and others that you love, you labor hard so that your children might find joy where you did not.

You give yourself purpose based on the wishful thinking that your successors will be distracted enough by material wealth in order to ignore the futility of life.

>> No.4898696

>overcoming nihilism
>implying

>> No.4898713

You don't. Nihilism is the crown of intellectual honesty and it should be regarded as such and not something to sweep under the rug with wishful thinking.

>> No.4898717

via rationalization

>> No.4898723

I don't think I'll ever "overcome" it. I honestly see know way around it. I'm not trying to be "edgy" or anything. I just honestly don't know how you can deny nihilism. I wish it was otherwise, but I'd be lying to myself.

>> No.4898725

>>4898723
>know
god damn I'm retarded

>> No.4898727

>>4898639
By realizing that its pointless and you get more done if you ignore it. You can accept that it is both true and useless for you as a person. Otherwise why not just kill yourself now?

>> No.4898733

By understanding how much your life will suck if you give in to nihilism

>> No.4898736
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4898736

What have you done to overcome man today?

>> No.4898740

>implying acceptance in the first place

>> No.4898741

>>4898733
>blue pill

>> No.4898742

>>4898727
>Otherwise why not just kill yourself now?

I think about this every day. I don't think I'll eve have the balls to do it though.

>> No.4898743

>>4898741
Whatever you say, man. It may not all matter in the end, but until then, I'm hungry and want a roof over my head

>> No.4898747

>>4898639
Your interpretation of everything as having no meaning is the same as the opposite you refute. It's how atheists and theists are the same but they show their faith in different ways. Everything having no meaning exists because you made it that way, your objective, non-illusory look on the world is just that, a look on the world, you highlight the colors of the world with the tint in your glasses.

>> No.4898748

>>4898742
Then whats the point? Why give half a shit about a worldview you dont possess, will not possess in the foreseeable future and does absolutely nothing for you?

If nothing in life has any intrinsic purpose then why do you have to value anything? Why value the truth or lack thereof of nihilism at all? Why not place your own value on things.

The most logical conclusion after nihilism is a rejection of nihilism.

>> No.4898750

When you realize that it is an unlivable position and that you could be living a happy and fulfilling life by putting your trust in Jesus Christ.

>> No.4898755

>>4898750
*tips fedora*

>> No.4898756

Accepting that all humans are in the limit of their reasoning. There are no such thing as unreasonable, just our incapability to see it and make a reason out of it.

>> No.4898759

>>4898747
>It's how atheists and theists are the same but they show their faith in different ways.

I'm pretty tired of this apologist talking point

>> No.4898768
File: 39 KB, 480x360, Carl_Sagan_BillionsAndBillions.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4898768

Science. Because it works, bitches.

>> No.4898769

>>4898736
Abrogate man, entertain the thought of it, live by it.

>> No.4898775

>>4898759
Believing in a god or believing in the absence of a god requires the same amount of faith.

>> No.4898782

>>4898748
I've been through all of this many many times. I can create my own meaning but I've never been convinced by it.
>Then what's the point?
Exactly. I can establish an infinity of purposes but they all seem like bullshit to me. It mostly feels like a tedious waste of time.

>> No.4898783

Purpose

>> No.4898787

>>4898775
I am not trying to defend or even get into a discussion about religion or spirituality, it was a side bar to my main point.

>> No.4898788

>>4898768
But science is merely descriptive, it has no normative dimension.

>> No.4898802

>>4898788
Actually it must. You can't search for the truth unless you want to know it.

Read Sam Harris.

>> No.4898808

>>4898782
Then kill yourself.

I'm not being mean. Go out, get a pistol, and put it to your head. If you can pull the trigger no problemo, good job. You're truly a hardcore nihilist. If you cannot than you have placed intrinsic value on something, yourself. If you can both understand that you realistically mean nothing and still value yourself, there is literally 0 reason why you cant apply that to anything else.

You value yourself for a reason. Why do you value yourself, why dont you value the things you tried to in the past?

>> No.4898813

>>4898802
that seems like a "lumping" of philosophy in with science. they are inextricable, fine, but that's not to say they're indistinguishable

>> No.4898827

>>4898808
Self preservation instinct you can't overcome=! meaning/value

>> No.4898828

>>4898808
If you consider your desire to stay alive as natural a process as the polymerization of microtubules inside cells, then asking someone to kill themselves is absurd. No intrinsic value required.

>> No.4898832

>>4898802
There's a philosophical drive that makes people want to find "truth" using science as an epistemological tool. Science itself does not create this. It's a product of philosophy, rather than a cause of it. I've read some of Sam Harris. He presupposes utilitarianism and tries to claim it as a fundamental moral truth, which is silly.

>> No.4898834

>>4898827
>can't overcome
>thousands of people kill themselves daily

Wow you've got a loose definition of "can't" there buddy.

>> No.4898841

>>4898828
Any desire or belief is that exact same thing.

Ergo believing anything does not require that you place any intrinsic value on it.

But we're still in essentially the same place where we left off. We've achieved nothing but waste of our own time. We've advanced no meaningful intellectual discussion. We've addressed no problems.

that is Nihilism.

>> No.4898843

>>4898808
But I'm not a rational being. I have a biological drive to live, even if I don't have an intellectual one.

>> No.4898846

>>4898834
Emphasis on the word "you". You need a certain kind of mental landscape to be able to pull the trigger, unless you're going to go full retard and imply free will/agency.

>> No.4898848

By not having an entitlement complex.

>> No.4898850

>>4898843
Realistically speaking you should also have a biological drive to fuck, eat and find comfort in the company of others.

You find ways around all of these impulses daily. And some (like the desire for food) are actually stronger impulses than immediate self-preservation.

>> No.4898856

Why should I gives up nihilism. I am superior than everyone else.

>> No.4898861

>>4898850
Moot comparison.

Overcoming the desire for sex is passive; you just sit there, getting sex requires action. Overcoming the desire to live requires action on your part to end your life.

>> No.4898867
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4898867

start giving a shit about the human race

>> No.4898868

>>4898861
Overrcoming the desire to eat does not, and achieves the same end.

>> No.4898870

>>4898867
Congratulations, you found a stance more childish than nihilism.

>> No.4898872

>>4898808
are you saying humans are inherently anti-nihilistic since they naturally put value on their own lives due to their genetic makeup

>> No.4898876

>>4898846
>Implying free will is not exactly the mental landscape required to pull the trigger

>> No.4898877

>>4898872
They aren't inherently anything.

Nihilism is a metaphysical non-entity invented by people.

>> No.4898878

>>4898713
Skepticism, which logically culminates in nihilism when applied to any kind of search for meaning, is just a resting point for the human brain; not a permanent "conclusion" to reason. If you don't see that there's more to reason and deduction than skepticism, you're obviously not skeptical enough.

>> No.4898880

>>4898867
So we should care about a flash from a mediocre ass?

>> No.4898882

>>4898850
I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.

>> No.4898887 [DELETED] 

>>4898639
once I realized the concept of nihilism was invented by fat neckbeards with nothing going for them

>> No.4898890

>>4898878
another pseudo-intellectual kant'd. we're doing god's work, you and i :)

>> No.4898900

>>4898887
So you reject it based on ad hominem?

>> No.4898904

>>4898882
You manage to navigate other, stronger impulses and bend them to your intellectual will. The notion that not killing yourself is somehow different is nonsense you very obviously can force yourself to not eat or copulate literally every day.

Also any value that you give to nihilism as objective truth is self-contradictory.

Nihilism is circuitous and self-defeating, why is this such a difficult concept?

>> No.4898906
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4898906

I've replaced nihilism with grandiose delusions.

Worked pretty well, I guess.

>> No.4898911

>>4898904
I don't think I ever said it was objective truth. You seem to be preempting me here.

>> No.4898914

>>4898887
Newton died a virgin. Don't see you jumping off a bridge though.

>> No.4898921

>>4898911
Nihilism cannot be partially true. The premise is that nothing has intrinsic value. if it is even partially untrue, it is completely untrue. Something cannot both have intrinsic value and not simultaneously. QED it is either objective truth or patently false.

>inb4 thats a false dichotomy

>> No.4898932

>>4898921
Can some beliefs be partially true but not absolutely?

>> No.4898942

>>4898932
Certainly.

Nihilism is not one of those. Its very definition requires nothing to have intrinsic value. If any one this has intrinsic value, then it is reasonable to assume that anything, or at least, more things can have intrinsic value. Thus it is untrue. Even if one thing has intrinsic value, nihilism becomes false by definition.

dont be obtuse please.

>> No.4898946

>>4898914
>Don't see you jumping off a bridge though.
>derp

>> No.4898950

>>4898808
Am I the only guy in the world who doesnt get the "just kill yourself" defence?

>you're a nihilist? Kill yourself then.
>you're an atheist? Kill yourself then.

I have yet to see anyone apply this sort of logic elsewhere:
>you believe in the afterlife? Kill yourself then.
>you believe in a benevolent God? Go be with Him, then, if you truly believe.
>you believe in reincarnation? Hop to it, then, before you ruin your karma further.

Maybe it's only kosher to tell non-believers to go die.

>> No.4898956
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4898956

>People think that life having no meaning is bad

>> No.4898958

>>4898900
I don't take ugly people seriously... I don't take fat people seriously... I don't take poor people seriously... I don't take you seriously....

at least when it comes to matters like what meaning i'll give to this world, neckbeard

>> No.4898960

>>4898942
So you're saying nihilism states nothing has intrinsic value, which is in itself an intrinsic value, therefore it defeats itself as a philsophical position? I'm not well versed in philosophy, so what are you left with? Is someone who claims to be a nihilist an existentialist or something else?

>> No.4898961

>>4898958
Who do you take seriously?

>> No.4898964

>>4898950
I never said anything about atheism, and am atheist myself.

I'm trying to get across the point that just because nothing has intrinsic value that doesnt mean it has any bearing on the real world. We understand now that markets and marginal utility are likely the primary determinants of the cost of diamonds and gold. They have no intrinsic value, but they have assigned value. Does this difference somehow mean you would be less willing to part with a mountain of gold now then you would have been if you had lived a thousand years ago? Does a person value their wedding ring less now than they would 50 years ago?

>> No.4898965

just pull a Fathers and Sons move by falling in love
realise that while the world may be painfully rational, the human mind is not
and seeing as Big Bad Bishop Berkeley already showed that there's no reality outside of the mind, that's all you need

orgasms, alcohol, laughter, etc. are easily worth the price of admission. Trying to find a meaning inherent within life will get the same result as trying to find an artist's signature on the sea, but that doesn't mean you can't swim to pleasure

>> No.4898971

>>4898958
Why don't you do a little growing up and come back in a couple years ok bud, now if you don't mind adults are talking here

>> No.4898976

>>4898960
I'm saying that the difference between intrinsic or 'real/true' value and assigned value is meaningless, and that nihilism is pointless stance that is useful only to be refuted.

It has long been acknowledged that philosophy which achieves nothing is worth exactly that, nothing.

>> No.4898977

>>4898958
>implying humans aren't inherently ugly

>> No.4898981

>>4898977
Is there even such thing as ugly

>> No.4898983

>>4898841
>We've addressed no problems
that is because there are no problems

>> No.4898986

>>4898983
But have humans created their own problems?

>> No.4898996

solipsism is the answer to the problem of nihilism

>> No.4899010

>>4898961
tall white people that are extremely good-looking

rich

intellectual

cultured (you need to have mastered at least one form of art) - be literary, so on so forth

hygienic (don't forget to floss your teeth daily)

you need to know a grappling martial art and a striking one (le arts of mars)

mental qualities I don't care to get into

exceeded the population in many ways (1%)

etc

>>4898971
cliché, neckbeard

cliché...

>> No.4899020

>>4899010
oh i see what you're doing, human beings don't have to be anything, so you're choosing to be an idiotic ad hominem shitposter, i see anon, i see

>> No.4899029

>>4899020
*tips fedora*

whatever loser

just remember you're the kind of guy that mumbles to your skinny-fat friend "god that guy's a jerk"

while I walk away with the cool dudes and the hot girls

you can resent me, but you can never be me

>> No.4899033

>>4899029
please go back to b

>> No.4899055

>>4898906
so Christianity?

>> No.4899061

>>4899055
edgy

>> No.4899091

>>4899029
>while I walk away with the cool dudes and the hot girls
when people post shit like this, it's kind of funny to laugh at what shit lives they live in reality
:^)

>> No.4899106

>>4899061
way to shut me down bro

enjoy your dead jew on a stick worship

>> No.4899113

>>4898906
>delusions of grandeur
otherwise known as purpose
otherwise known as the delusion that anything, epecially your insignificant speck of a life, has any purpose or meaning at all
but like religion >>4899055 it works to make you feel like you're not a piece of shit waste of space that would better serve mankind by committing an hero

>> No.4899126

>>4899091
>it's kind of funny to laugh at what shit lives they live in reality

tell everyone what you know about every single poster on 4chan

because everyone that browses 4chan is an autistic fat fuck like you, amiright?

>> No.4899164

>>4898639


the true nihilist does not exist.

>> No.4899168

>>4899164
WHOA BRO THATS FUKKIN DEEP!

>> No.4899180

>>4899164
the true nihilist is a computer

>> No.4899183

>>4898964
I dont get what you're trying to say.

I'm saying its dumb to tell people to kill themselves, and you're talking about gold prices.

>> No.4899203

>>4898741
but the one that mother gives you don't do anything at all...

>> No.4899425 [DELETED] 

>>4899164
the true nihilist is a whore for one to be a whore one must be a nihilist in mind, body, and spirit

>> No.4899462

>>4899126
>autistic
>fat
No, I just find it a bit rum when someone acts up on the Internet for attention. Seems to indicate that they've got nobody to communicate with irl.

>> No.4899493

>>4899462
>implying they're acting up for attention
>implying you can accurately judge what their lives are like from a few posts

you're full of yourself, chav

>> No.4899523

If you weren't already an active nihilist before you even heard the name Nietzsche or knew about nihilism, then you have no hope.

>> No.4899529

>>4899523
this is kind of what I figured as well

Don't modern western people just grow up nihilist to begin with? I didn't even really understand what people meant by 'the meaning of life' till i was 15 or so, at which point it sounded the same as religious bullshit

>> No.4899545

>>4899493
>chav
lmao are you even British

nah, it's pretty obvious when someone jumps into a discussion and makes it all about scolding them for being LOL SO DUMB that it's not a healthy pursuit

>> No.4899578

By realizing that "non-existence" is a concept created by existing people using their existing minds.

>> No.4900283

>>4898741
What's wrong with taking the blue pill?

>> No.4900288

The funny thing is that most fags like op probably read the term out of a dictionary and probably read none of the works by actual nihilists. Teenage fag trying to categorize himself.

>> No.4900289

>>4898775
Worst post in this thread, congratulations.

>> No.4900292

>>4900289
>Worst post in this thread, congratulations.

>> No.4900294

>>4900292
>Worst post in this thread, congratulations.

>> No.4900297

>>4898639
I killed myself. Then I was reborn greater than my previous self and realized that nihilism is an output of the weak and the weary.

>> No.4900299

>>4899529
I don't know what it is about the first world but it tears a void into your psyche or some shit, you just feel empty because you have everything you need on a biological level and your primal instincts are like "the fucks going on here?"

>> No.4900309 [DELETED] 

>>4900299
There's nothing to really "do". And we come full circle to making up a purpose. Maybe everything we're doing will to something that will enable us to circumvent this phenomenon once and for all. Or maybe not. We'll see. Point is: find something to do.

>> No.4900313

>>4900299
There's nothing to really "do". And we come full circle to making up a purpose. Maybe everything we're doing will lead to something that will enable us to circumvent this phenomenon once and for all. Or maybe not. We'll see. Point is: find something to do.

>> No.4900314

>>4900313
>There's nothing to really "do".
Only true idiots say this.

>> No.4900326

>>4900314
The point is that it's not a given as it was before civilization. You are no longer born with something to do. The idiots are the ones who can't figure that out or what to do about it.

>> No.4900329

I didnt
fag

>> No.4900365

I'm sure the so called 'nihilists' wouldn't want to suffer pain. Clearly suffering is an objective bad to the human and animal condition, thus nihilism is nothing but post modernist garbage. Try not eating for two days and see if your opinion of no-inherent value continues to prevail over your desire for food.

Anyone that goes for the "I'm not killing myself because its my evolutionary survival instinct to live thats stopping me" approach is just fucking kidding themselves. You see value in eating,shitting,sleeping, living, you're not a nihilist.

>> No.4900470

>>4900365
>shitting

Keep your crude words out of this thread, redneck. And give me your mother's number so I can scold the whore for not raising you properly.

>> No.4900568

The solution to nihilism is hedonism

>> No.4901548

>>4898750
*tips Christian hat*

>> No.4901578

>>4900365
nihilism is just the proposition that there is no meaning in the universe. life has no purpose, etc. its not some kind of code or politics people live by like veganism or some shit

>> No.4901632
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4901632

With this poem. The original text in portuguese is god tier.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=td32Uf79LnQ

>> No.4902512

The leap of faith

>> No.4902524

>>4900283
You won't be able to feel superior to other losers on the internet

>> No.4903164

>>4898733
Might as well be religious, then. Ignorance is bliss, right?

>> No.4903316

Convince yourself that you can solve social issues with laws, science. Convince yourself that surverys and preliminary testing provide the definite and absolute answers you have always been looking for.

You can also add living in a therapeutic society where aggression and competition don't exist.

>> No.4903337

you must first overcome adolescence

>> No.4903359
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4903359

nihilism is a spook.

>> No.4903372

>>4903359
>atheism is a god

>> No.4903815

just because life is meaningless doesn't mean you should kill yourself
how is this an apt conclusion?
you can still enjoy something if it is meaningless; just a bit of fun

>> No.4904859

>>4898639
overwhelming guilt and self-hatred
suicide would be far too selfish

>> No.4905120

Guys, I don't want to start a new thread for that so I am going to ask here - can you recommend me some nihilistic literature?
Not bait, just interested on the subject.

>> No.4905138

>>4898639
I never experienced it in the first place.
#maxdelusion
#Iamthemasterofallthatsurroundsme
#Mankindspurposeispurpose

>> No.4905173

>>4898639
Seeing I'll run out of money in a few month erased my "nihilism" quite instantly... I'm sure however that if my parents or the government would've supported my NEETship, I wouldn't have hesitated to embrace it completely...

>> No.4905180

>>4898639
Hope.

>> No.4907020

>>4898872
>>4898827
>>4898843
>>4898828
You also have a biological drive to enjoy pointless shit in life. Like falling in love with a grill or playing the vidya

>> No.4907028

>>4898965
This, so much

>> No.4907038
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4907038

>>4898639
Self-enjoyment.

>> No.4907067

>>4898870

>"muh edgy moral nihilism"

Humanities undergrad detected.

>> No.4907069

Become a solipsist; they're hard to find, though.

>> No.4907188

I don't like the idea of nihilism, and if it is true, then my self deception doesn't matter.

>> No.4908496

>>4898639
Step 1: Nothing matters.
Step 2: It doesn't matter that nothing matters!

>> No.4908831

>>4898681
lelelel xD

>> No.4908833
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4908833

>>4898713
truth
>>4898878
falsity

>> No.4908836

>>4903359
nice meme faggot

>> No.4908837
File: 5 KB, 148x148, eggman heart.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4908837

>>4898639
it's literally impossible to fall into nihilism lmao
and i mean nihilism nihilism
whatever the fuck you guys are talking about is anxiety and self doubt which is partly due to the fact that you refuse to accept nihilism is the truth
once you do however you won't even feel this anxiety, trust me nihilism was never a worry to begin with
>>4898713
dis nigga knows what's up

>> No.4908843

a question to nietzsche

why create our own values? why even reject nihilism

does he have an answer to this, as in can he convince a nihilist to take on values - why should they?

>> No.4908858

>>4908837
>eggman
dude. have some respect for sunny egg.

>> No.4908872

>>4898775
Justify. You don't think we could just accept an assertion, do you?

>> No.4908887

>>4898775
I disagree. Coming to terms with the fact that the only thing you could call proof of the existence of a god are the stories from the bible or whatever other Abraham religion you associate yourself with are entirely different things. Not believing in a deity is not having faith in the spiritual sense of the word.

>> No.4908888

>>4903815
Exactly that. Nihilism just states that there is no meaning in the universe, not that everything has a negative meaning; in this case, anti-natalist thoughts come to discussion.

>> No.4908895

Lies

>> No.4909299
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4909299

>>4898639
Why would you want to do that? I know that you'll feel uncomfortable at first but in my opinion it's worth it to not to delude yourself further. And by the way, since I accepted my nihilism I'm happier (or less miserable) than ever, I'm calm and comfy inside.

>> No.4909325

>>4898750
*clutches crucifix*

>> No.4909647

>>4898775
Depends on cultural context. In Murrica maybe.

>> No.4911256

masturbation and loathing of the human race

>> No.4911415

>>4898639
I spoke to God.

>> No.4912399

>>4898683

>nihilism
>focusing on others and not yourself
>believing in something after the extinguishing of your consciousness
>caring about something after the extinguishing of your consciousness

Disgusting

>> No.4912417

>>4909325
*tips fedora*

>> No.4912425

I am thinking my self to be having faith that some thing better exists.

>> No.4912564

>>4898639

Why haven't mods deleted this thread? This isn't /lit/ related.

>> No.4912824
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4912824

>>4898639
I found a job that filled my days + gf + gym + religion

>> No.4912855
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4912855

I ignore it.

>> No.4912857

Low educated house holds have on average more children than highly educated.
To make sure stupid does not over run the world in a few generations I have to make smart babies.

So my religion is genetics and my goal to have kids with smart women, make sure they get educated and do the same thing. and don't stop at 1 kid.

>> No.4912862

>>4912824

Kierkegaard mocks your futile distractions. You are in despair and don't even know it.

>> No.4912864

>>4898639
It overcomes you.

>>4912564
Nihilism is a literary construct.

>> No.4912921
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4912921

>>4912862
You haven't read him, ya?
>Implying he isn't starting with the assumption that immortality of soul involves more despair that the eternal nothing

>> No.4912927
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4912927

>>4912921

How the fuck would you derive that from Kierkegaard? The despair of immortality is only a small part of the overall despair which one feels when man denies God as being his ultimate measure.

>> No.4912970

>>4908888
anti-natalism is just plain whining. "boo-hoo, life is shit, stop making babies people" should not even be considered a philosophical position.

>> No.4912972

I read religious scriptures, theological arguments, and found them for the most part, wanting. I read buddhist philosophy, came across the I Ching, discovered by accident the ontological argument, and then, retraced my steps backward. Everything now seems to have meaning, and a reason.

Nihilism is the point you reach when you recognise the ineffable nothingness, I think. It takes more work than everything you have studied before it combined to overcome it, I also think.

>> No.4912985

I believe in nothing.

There is nothing, in which I believe.

Belief allows access to nothing.

Belief in something that is not nothing is pointless, useless, because if it is "something" it can be known, and thus belief must be broken.

I believe in nothing, because there is nothing in which to believe.

If it is anything but nothing, belief is not needed to access it, to understand it, or to discuss it.

Belief is the weakest method of describing your world. When you believe, you are saying nothing about the world, only about yourself, as someone incapable of anything but baseless conviction.

THIS is Nihlism: No Thing that exists, can be believed in, because if it exists, belief does not describe it. If it exists, it needs no belief. Belief can only be applied to that which does not exist.

I believe in nothing.

>> No.4912997

>>4912985
>When you believe, you are saying nothing about the world

So if I believe in God, and I say something as to where my beliefs come from, I have said nothing about the world?

C'mon bruh. You can do better than that.

Stop trying to dominate thinking

>> No.4913004
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4913004

Anything other than living with it is an intellectually dishonest placebo. Overcoming it is accepting it.

>> No.4913011

>>4912997
When you say you believe in God, you say you believe in God. You're saying nothing about the world, because you are using belief as the grounds of your belief. You see why that's a problematic argument, right?

>> No.4913040

>>4913011
Please read what I have written properly.

To come back to what you said anyway,

Imagine we are both looking at an orange. I proclaim 'It is an orange.' I have said something about the objective reality.

Imagine we are both looking at the sky. I proclaim 'God made this.' I have said something about my subjective reality.

Now read the rest of what I said.

>> No.4913122

>>4913040
Something being an orange is a description, determined, among other things, by language, culture, by history, by how the human race has come to look at what is to hand. "It is an orange" is thus not saying anything about an "objective reality", because in order for that statement to carry any meaning for me, we must already agree on a number of things (such as "what is a fruit?"), which means: you're only saying something on the subjective level (which we share in this case).

The same thing is true of the statement with God. Except it goes deeper into subjectivist interpretation.

>So if I believe in God, and I say something as to where my beliefs come from, I have said nothing about the world?
Trying to re-read this in case I'm misunderstanding you, but I don't see it, so please elaborate if it continues.

You seem to be saying that because your belief is based in reality, it must be based on something that, in fact, exists, whatever that may be, which would mean your belief does describe reality, but you're not sure how (else it seems you could be much more specific). What I do not understand is how you (or anyone) can think this means anything but that you are convinced of your belief, and you have reasons to believe in your beliefs.

>So if I believe in God, and I say something as to where my beliefs come from, I have said nothing about the world?
Yes, because it does not follow that a representation must be that which is represented, or even caused by the represented, or anything like it.

"Aliens beam superior knowledge into my brain from another dimension." is as real of a statement as "God made us". Whatever I choose to represent what I think I know as does not change any of the actual conditions that determine that which I'm talking about.

Further: I have a real problem with the separation of subjective and objective realities. Firstly, because every single representation of reality we have is NECESSARILY subjective, we cannot ever say anything about an "objective reality". Secondly, our subjective representations are objectively subjective. Thus they cannot be opposed: there is no dichotomy, and we cannot therefore talk about such a difference. In this perspective, the difference between "It is an orange" and "God made this", lies in the qualities of the statement itself. This being an orange is not a statement about reality: it's a statement about the name of a type of object that exists, and is thus "subjective", because it could be named something else, or I could disagree with you, but the orange itself would be unchanged, so it's "objective". "God made this" is a statement which which would never be different, no matter what you said it about, no matter who you said it to, IFF it is true.

Have you read Wittgenstein? Quite relevant.

At this point I feel like I'm missing something, to be honest. You implied heavily I did not understand you, so presumably that's why. I hope you can explain how I am wrong.

>> No.4913697

>>4898713
>>4908833
>>4908837
>people actually believe this

>> No.4913805

>>4913697
Nice retort.

>> No.4913844

>>4913040
>Imagine we are both looking at an orange. I proclaim 'It is an orange.' I have said something about my* subjective* reality.

>> No.4913850

>>4898713
i knew i reached my intellectual peak when i was 15!

>> No.4913906

>>4913850

Many people do. It's a shame the way we ridicule teenage militant atheists.

>> No.4913944

>>4907069
lol
solipsism is a babby's first thought experiment, not an ontology to live by

>> No.4913954

>>4908837
You aren't black.

>> No.4913962

>>4913906
I pity you.

>> No.4913978

You can value your own life as a nihilist, while stil acknowledging there is no intrinsic value, why are people not getting that distinction?

Subjectively things have value, its just that not every person will value it.

>> No.4914005

Become close to someone. Look at them.

Look at them looking at you.

Look at them looking at you looking at them.

How you see them will be based on how you believe they see themselves.

How they see you will be based on how they believe you see yourself.

Now recreate yourself based on what you think they see, and let them recreate themselves based on what they think you see.


This will, in turn, affect what each of you sees.


You'll never actually see, and neither will they. But this recursive process of mutual self-creation is the closest you'll ever come to transcending boundaries of perception.

And that is why love is the answer.

>> No.4914082

I tripped on mushrooms, twice.

The real answer is emotion, emotion is the bread of life. Seek experiences that compliment or progress your perspective.

>> No.4914103

Why do I need a "purpose" to surf the webz

>> No.4914123

>>4914103

Cause there's a whole world out there, boy. All wriggling and chattering and struggling just like you. You'll leave this place one day. We all do.