[ 3 / biz / cgl / ck / diy / fa / ic / jp / lit / sci / vr / vt ] [ index / top / reports ] [ become a patron ] [ status ]
2023-11: Warosu is now out of extended maintenance.

/lit/ - Literature

View post   
File: 92 KB, 480x736, Ender's Game.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
488373 No.488373 [Reply] [Original]

Hitler apologia?

>> No.488381

>>488373
literally just bought the box set off amazon

>> No.488396

>>488381
for a second there I might have thought you had figuratively purchased a box set off of amazon. thank you for clarifying things.

>> No.488400
File: 144 KB, 534x498, reaction_yahtzee.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
488400

THIS IS A BOOK ABOUT TWO PRE-TEENS WHO ACHIEVE GLOBAL DOMINATION BY POSTING ON AN EQUIVALENT OF 4CHAN.

Yeah, people actually read that kind of excrement.

>> No.488397

>>488381
> reading Ender series past "Enders shadow"

WHY

>> No.488403
File: 589 KB, 600x429, 1265181046211.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
488403

>>488381

>> No.488405

>>488397
>Never heard of reading for enjoyment

>> No.488408

>>488405

You won't be enjoying it for very long, trust me

>> No.488412

I love how /lit/ sucks the cock of a homophobic closet fag nazi mormon who can't write for shit and has created the most ridiculous and unbelievable characters in the history of literature, and then rages at twilight. At least twilight is somewhat pornographic.

>> No.488446

>>488396
no need for thanks, all in a day's work

>> No.488469

Hate Card, love the books.

The Ender arc was great. Up until the end where it got like Philip K. Dick levels of messed-up without Dick's mind to guide it.

And the Bean arc was... well, the Bean arc was good as a supplement. I didn't read anything after Achilles dies because he was pretty much my only reason for reading as far as I did. Bean and Petra's romance is godaweful.

It's a fact: Mormons can't write romance.

>> No.489042

>>488412

OSC is homophobic? To me Ender's Game was full of a bunch of pedophilic homoeroticism.

>> No.489054

>>488400
It hardly talks about Peter and Valentine, but the 12 year old reinventing military tactics and winning a massive interplanetary war is only slightly less retarded. His philosophy is pretty interesting up until he starts writing purely for money (Xenocide and onward).

>> No.489210

>>489042
>OSC is homophobic?

Yes, he's a batshit crazy Mormon.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orson_Scott_Card#Homosexuality

>> No.489222

>>489042

It's funny how the most outspoken homophobes all seem to like to talk about the intimate details of homosexuality quite a bit, huh?

But yes, he is quite homophobic. In fact, a blog I once read estimated, based on how much he himself has said he donates to anti-homosexual causes, that 10% of the sticker price of any one of his books goes to an anti-gay cause.

>> No.489235

I would go gay for Ender.

>> No.489257

Ender was a third child, was abused by adults during his childhood, was estranged from his family except for a strange relationship with his older sister, who he later lived with, was a virgin until age 37 when he fell in love with a bitter, self-destructive woman. Oh, also he wiped out an entire species, but said it was only because he thought it was necessary to protect the species.

Hitler was a third child, was viciously beaten by his father as a child, and he was alienated from the rest of his family, except for his sister, whom he lived with for several years. He was never known to be in any kind of romantic relationship until the age of 37, who was not known as particularly stable. He also did that holocaust thing, which you might've heard of.

>> No.489259

>>489042
> To me Ender's Game was full of a bunch of pedophilic homoeroticism.

Thats nothing compared to Songmaster. That book really is about a homosexual pedophilic relationship.

>> No.489260

>>489257
But Ender did it in space, so fuck that comparison.

>> No.489262

>>489257
Well yeah, the parallel is intended.

They also parallel him with General Custer in places, using the same metaphors the media used to describe the military leader.

>> No.489263

God damn it you guys I just barely finished Ender's Game and really liked it. You would have to make me not like it as much, wouldn't you?

>> No.489266

>>489263
If you think this thread is bad, try reading this essay - http://www4.ncsu.edu/~tenshi/Killer_000.htm

Actually it's pretty interesting, but it really rakes Ender's Game over the coals.

>> No.489268

>>489263
Congratulations on making it to the 9th grade!

>> No.489292

>>489257
Hitler's father, while he did beat Adolph, did so rarely and only when drunk. He did die at a young age, leaving a plentiful pension to support Adolph's family. Adolph Hitler was not a third child. Fourth child. Hitler was not alienated from his family at all. In fact, he was almost overwhelmingly showered in his mother's affection, suffered deeply from the death of a brother, and, as you said, later lived with his sister. He didn't get lucky until 1936, as you say, but it's common knowledge that that whole "holocaust" thing was made up by the allied governments to deteriorate any sympathy with the axis cause.

>> No.489296

>>489292
Poor Adolf... No one ever really understood him and what he was trying to do.

>> No.489298

>>489292
Oh, so you're saying both Ender's and Hitler's genocides were FICTITIOUS?! Yet another link! You continue to prove my point sir.

>> No.489306

>>489298
He basically raped the shit out of your comparison, how does that make you feel?

>> No.489312

>>489306
>>489292

Samefag. On another note, had me until the end. 10/10.

>> No.489620

>>489292

<3 88.

>> No.489636

Kid accidentally kills another kid. Hitler orders the execution of millions... ya, exactly the same... sure.

>> No.489637

>>488400
Not implying that fame == global domination, but look at fags like hilton perez. Gayfag blogboy turns in to (admittedy, D-list) IRL celeb.

>> No.489645

Hitler was a good soldier (really, he served with distinction in WWI) but a poor strategist.

Ender was a good soldier and an excellent strategist.

One willingly murdered millions, the other thought he was playing a computer game. Yeah. Same shit alright.

>> No.489646

Anyone who wouldn't be willing to pull the trigger is the true monster.

>> No.489649

>>488396
I figuratively purchased a box set off of your mother.

WITH MY PENIS

(that last part is literal)

>> No.489661

I haven't read past the first book, but I don't see how people analyzing it get off saying that this book paints a ridiculously sympathetic portrait of Ender to the point of a Hitler apologia. I personally thought the kid was a little monster, and that his only redeeming quality was his attempt to revive the species he annihilated. Wasn't it even implied that the aliens wouldn't have launched another attack anyway? That his genocide was ultimately completely unnecessary?

>> No.489677

>>489661
Unnecessary? Humanity would have been stuck within a single solar system until they wiped themselves out if Ender had not wiped the Buggers out. No matter the intention of the enemy, Ender saved mankind.

>> No.489678

Adolf. With an F.

>> No.489701

>>489661
Dude, the excuse, "We didn't know you valued your individual lives, which is why we figured you wouldn't take it personally when we killed huge numbers of you so we could take planets you wanted." is utterly unconvincing.

The whole "sympathy for the bug aliens" angle never worked for me at all. It's one of those things where the author insists that the reader should make a judgement he didn't manage to justify in the actual narrative.

Honestly, it works about as well for me as if Schindler's List had ended with, "And then we were very sad about fighting the Nazis, because it turns out the whole thing was a silly little misunderstanding." out of nowhere.

>> No.489705

Ender is pretty much nothing like Hitler. The only similarity is that they both committed genocide, and Ender didn't know he was doing it.

>> No.489715

This always bugs me. The main character was the (presumably unnamed) forest moon of Ender, not Ender himself, who was a gas giant similar to Gavin.

>> No.489728

>>489715

wat

>> No.489729

I liked the books as a kid. Even though I still view the books positively I have to hold it against Card that his characters are paper thin (I get it, the kids are smarter than everyone on the fucking planet) and the whole philotic dimension is nothing but a way to make consciousness seem more important than it actually is... something most religious people do. It's a kind of extended anthrocentrism.

>> No.489736

>>489729
It's a lot more interesting when you realize that the characters aren't human at all, but a species of humanoid alien that loses most of its intelligence as it matures, who had previously annihilated humanity and adopted its culture as their own.

>> No.489738

>>489736
You forgot teh spoilers.

>> No.489750

Does the book really have to mean more than what it seems at first impression? A damn good read with a nice twist, perfect for people who want an enjoyable introduction to sci-fi.

>> No.489753

>>489736

wat

>> No.489758

>>489729
>>489736
They are in the top .01 percentile in intelligence and were extensively trained in tactics and war. I don't have a problem believing that they are better than everyone under those circumstances. I have a problem believing that Ender was the only one who pushed the boundaries of the school but not that the kids were smarter than everyone.

>> No.489764

>>489758

Ender was selectively bred to be the way he was. Peter and Valentine were basically failures (to the military).

>> No.489768

>>489758
Why would the rest want to push the boundaries? They wanted to be there and were treated fairly. It was Enders personality traits, mainly never wanting to lose that made him rebel. But you have to remember the teachers intentionally manipulated him to react like he did for their own benefits.

>> No.489778

>>489758
I'm not talking just about Battle School kids. Look at the Wiggin family in general. 2 kids manipulating the entire world through an internet forum? They would have to have god level intelligence.

>> No.489781
File: 13 KB, 700x327, thumbsdown.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
489781

Card is not a very good writer.

I read Ender's Game a long time ago and was under-impressed. Then I read some of that stupid Alvin Maker series...

No more, thank you.

>> No.489784

>>489778
It's not just about intelligence, it's about how they used it.

Similar to an IQ score. That's a measure of - potential - not accomplishment. There are many genius level people who work in minimum wage jobs.

>> No.489787

>>489778

see >>489764

They were basically bred by the military. Peter was too mean. Valentine was too nice. But Ender was just right.

>> No.489802

>>489787
They were not bred. Two smart people having kids does not constitute selective breeding.

>>489784
That in no way changes the fact that the idea of two kids manipulating the entire world to their own ends via an internet forum is ridiculous no matter how smart they are.

>> No.489811

>>489802
It's a book about kids fighting space ants in the future and *thats* your problem with it's realism?

>> No.489813

>>489802
It's not supposed to be the internet it's more like they manipulated the world from a cable news show or a radio show. Hell thinking of them as fox news and MSNBC wouldn't be far off.

>> No.489815

>>489802

But they WERE selected by the military to breed, and the embryos were experimented on to produce different results.

>> No.489823

>>489802

The net in Ender's Game is different than the internet of today. The discussions actually have an influence, people with power care about what is going on in them. The net is like a modern Greek philosophical forum.

>> No.489837

>>489815
No they weren't. Show me where the series says anything about Wiggin embryos being experimented with.

>>489811
There is a big difference between outright stating there are aliens and FTL travel versus nonchalantly substituting the human race with a nearly identical race that every once in awhile produces walking super computer children.

>>489813
Why then was it only those two kids that could use this non-internet to change the world in the way they wanted it to change? It doesn't make sense.

>> No.489852

hurr hitler apologists

pathetic

>> No.489871

>>489823

Imagine if 4chan held that much sway over the world.

A horrifying thought.

>> No.489895

>>489837

In either Ender's Game or Ender's Shadow it's said that the military bred Ender to be a mix of Peter and Valentine. It's not actually directly said that the embryos were tampered with, but it's implied, from the fact that they were able to directly influence how the children turned out.

>> No.489903

>>489895
They requested that they have another kid they didn't tamper with him. Your thinking of bean who was tampered with as an embryo.

>> No.489907

>>489895
You are taking it WAY out of context. The military saw desirable traits within the first 2 Wiggin children and aloud the family to have a third child in hopes it might be a mix of those traits. There was no tampering involved.

>> No.489909

>>489907
aloud = allowed

>> No.489929

>>489903
>>489907

Yeah, you're right, sorry. However, my main point is that Ender, Peter, and Valentine are so intelligent because they were bred by the military (and also raised to be effective leaders). The other Battle School students were just "discovered".

>> No.489932

>>489929
They weren't bred by the military though...

>> No.489951

>>489932

Yes they were. The military had a program to breed child soldiers, but Ender was the only one (I think) that got into Battle School.

>> No.489982

>>489932

Yes they were, all children had to be licensed. So the government only gave licenses to approved couples who would make good offspring. They were selectively breeding for intelligence and other military command skills.

>> No.489990

>>489736
This I like.

>>489715
I... wat?

>> No.489991

Random trivia, Petra was the first thing I ever fapped to.

True story.

>> No.491397

>>489991

You poor thing.

>> No.491439

>>491397
Gets to come to a whole wide world of better porn though.

>> No.491457

The book never made much sense. They've got technology that can destroy planets, but they need a genius child to effectively wield it. They've also got super smart computers, but they really don't influence things.

I never really saw the Hitler apologist angle in the book. I felt like Orson Scott Card was trying to relive through Ender, a super-smart child prodigy that goes on to save the world.

>> No.491639

>>489750
>nice twist

>implying it wasn't the most obvious and predictable ending possible

>> No.491663

>>491639
>>491639
it shocked the crap outta me when i was like 14

>> No.491673

I love how Card justifies all violent acts of Ender in the book.