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/lit/ - Literature

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4874361 No.4874361[DELETED]  [Reply] [Original]

> Hates feminism and the "School of Resentment"
> Hates multiculturalism
> Extremely conservative
> Values western culture over all others
> Thinks DFW and post modern writing and art is shit

Who is the best literary critic and why is it Harold Bloom?

>> No.4874368

>Extremely conservative

no he isn't

>> No.4874369
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4874369

>> No.4874372

>>4874368
He is in terms of economics. He's much closer to a Libertarian than he is to either of the two major American political parties.

>> No.4874375

>hates post modern writing
wrong

>> No.4874377

>>4874372
Then why does he vote democrat?

>> No.4874379

>I irrationally hate people who look different from me
>I subscribe to an archaic, unfounded belief system
>I have a shit ton of privilege that I don't want to acknowledge
>I'm too incompetent and simple minded to understand pomo
>I'm afraid of objectively superior viewpoints and therefore need to immerse myself in an echo chamber so my fragile worldview can't be challenged by facts and reasoning

>>>/pol/

>> No.4874381

>>4874377
He hasn't voted for anyone since the 80s.

>> No.4874384
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4874384

You should read these guys

>> No.4874385

>If they wish to alleviate the sufferings of the exploited classes, let them live up to their pretensions, let them abandon the academy and go out there and work politically and economically and in a humanitarian spirit. If they wish to alleviate the sufferings of the exploited classes, let them live up to their pretensions, let them abandon the academy and go out there and work politically and economically and in a humanitarian spirit. They are the hypocrites; the so-called Marxist critics, and all of this rabblement that follow them now in the academies.

>> No.4874391

>>4874384
>Evola
>Black
Nice try, Schlomo

>> No.4874393

>>4874385
>exploited classes
there are no exploited classes in this day and age.

>> No.4874394
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4874394

>>4874379

>objectively superior

>> No.4874413

>>4874393

You are so pomo.

>> No.4874417

>>4874413
If you heard his vocaroo you'd realize he's just an autist faggot whose testicles have yet to drop.

>> No.4874419

>>4874381
He said in an interview he will vote for "Mr. Gore"

>> No.4874425

>>4874417
Can't you tell that just from his posts?

>> No.4874427

>>4874425
Yes, but his voice confirmed it.

>> No.4874430

>>4874419
"Albert Gore" rather

>> No.4874467

>>4874372
why would I listen to a literary critic for economics?

>> No.4874479

>>4874467
Not saying it's the best place to go, but literary criticism encompasses more than just literature, at least these days.

>> No.4874489

>>4874479
But Bloom would obviously be opposed to that: he's an aesthete; he rejects broad politico-economic readings of literature, that's like his whole shtick

>> No.4874506

>>4874489
Not too familiar with Bloom's work to be honest. However, that's the whole deal with criticism in academia at the moment. Readers are supposed to interpret literature beyond the literature, I'm actually inclined to agree with Bloom's sentiment to a certain extent.

>> No.4874516
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4874516

>> No.4874520

>>4874489
and yet he says Invisible Man is the only good work he's read by a black author

>> No.4874524

>>4874520
Exactly the kind of hyperbole I'd expect from you

>> No.4874526

>>4874516
I feel bad for the top guy, he's trapped in a cyber world; he's dysfunctional.

The bottom girl is just being used for what she's good for.

>> No.4874527

>>4874524
here are so many tiresomenesses going on. Everyone is so desperately afraid of being called a racist or a sexist that they connive—whether actively or passively—the almost total breakdown of standards that has taken place both in and out of the universities, where writings by blacks or Hispanics or in many cases simply women are concerned.

INTERVIEWER

This movement has helped focus attention on some great novels, though. You’re an admirer, for example, of Ralph Ellison’s Invisible Man.

BLOOM

Oh, but that is a very, very rare exception. What else is there like Invisible Man? Zora Neale Hurston’s Their Eyes Were Watching God has a kind of superior intensity and firm control. It’s a very fine book indeed. It surprised and delighted me when I first read it and it has sustained several rereadings since. But that and Invisible Man are the only full scale works of fiction I have read by American blacks in this century that have survival possibilities at all. Alice Walker is an extremely inadequate writer, and I think that is giving her the best of it. A book like The Color Purple is of no aesthetic interest or value whatsoever, yet it is exalted and taught in the academies. It clearly is a time in which social and cultural guilt has taken over.

>> No.4874532

>>4874520
Spooky spooks are spooking you with other spooked spooky spooks.

Am I Feminister yet?

>> No.4874538

>>4874379
>strawman

>>>/anyboardon4chan/

>> No.4874539

>>4874527
So "survival possibilities" I'm assuming means canonization.

So every "good" book has to be canon material? I don't think so, and neither does he, obviously.

>> No.4874541

>>4874527
Hey, I don't know much about Harold Bloom other than his funny face and that he hates Infinite Jest, but Invisible Man and Their Eyes Were Watching God are two of my favirote books and I've always felt they should replace To Kill A Mockingbird and the similar extra-safe black literature they teach in high schools.

>> No.4874542

>>4874527
Books written by poor black people are never interesting. Poor black people just aren't interesting. I don't know if you've noticed that before, but it's true.

>> No.4874553

>>4874541
>To Kill A Mockingbird
>written by a white woman

>> No.4874558
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4874558

>>4874541
funny face harold is the best

>> No.4874559

>>4874516
Is that fucker using a joystick

>> No.4874564

>>4874553
>implying white women aren't bored of beta white men

it would be awesome to go on a crusade and kill every it like Feminister

>> No.4874566

>>4874541
Yet Bloom is all whiny about Marxist reading in literature.

>Ellison poured out his anger toward party leaders for betraying African Americans and Marxist class politics during the war years. "If they want to play ball with the bourgeoisie they needn't think they can get away with it.... Maybe we can't smash the atom, but we can, with a few well chosen, well written words, smash all that crummy filth to hell." In the wake of this disillusion, Ellison began writing Invisible Man, a novel that was, in part, his response to the party's betrayal.[4]

>> No.4874582

>>4874566
I think he's more "whiny" about academics shoehorning Marxist theory into every textual analysis.

>> No.4874593

>>4874582
But HE shoehorns literature into extra-literary analysis.

>I keep telling my students that I’m not interested in a Freudian reading of Shakespeare but a kind of Shakespearean reading of Freud.

>> No.4874603

WHERE DO I START WITH BLOOM PLEASE

>> No.4874607

>>4874593
What? It seems like you don't understand what he said.

>> No.4874613
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4874613

>>4874603

>> No.4874614

>>4874361
>> Hates feminism and the "School of Resentment"
Good
>> Hates multiculturalism
Nothing wrong with multiculturalism
>> Extremely conservative
Too bad
>> Values western culture over all others
Too bad
>> Thinks DFW and post modern writing and art is shit
Good

>> No.4874617

>>4874603
"Harold Bloom's Critical Interpretations". There's one for virtually every "great" Western book, although Bloom himself does little of the writing, it's just collections of interpretations by big names (Orwell's interpretation of Gulliver's Travels, etc).

>> No.4874619

Bloom is a narcissistic faggot, which is to be expected of a literary critic. He has produced nothing of value and never will.

The fact that I am a woman who hates anti-feminist men is secondary.

>> No.4874620

>>4874614

>implying western culture isnt vastly superior to all others

how do people even think otherwise?

>> No.4874621

>>4874614
faggot

>> No.4874629

>>4874607
>What we think of as Freudian psychology is really a Shakespearean invention and, for the most part, Freud is merely codifying it. This shouldn’t be too surprising. Freud himself says “the poets were there before me,” and the poet in particular is necessarily Shakespeare. But you know, I think it runs deeper than that. Western psychology is much more a Shakespearean invention than a Biblical invention, let alone, obviously, a Homeric, or Sophoclean, or even Platonic, never mind a Cartesian or Jungian invention.

He's a massive fan of Shakespeare, and by that I mean he applies it to everything the way Marxists apply Marx to everything

>> No.4874630
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4874630

>literary criticism

Go read some real philosophy and stop wasting your time. Playing JRPGs is a better use of your time than reading this shit is.

>> No.4874631

>>4874620
Japanese culture is shit. They are killing themselves off anyway.
The Chinese brought us Taoism.

>> No.4874633

>>4874619

>all dat resent

>> No.4874635

>>4874629
>In his 1998 survey, Shakespeare: The Invention of the Human, Bloom provides an analysis of each of Shakespeare's 38 plays, "twenty-four of which are masterpieces." Written as a companion to the general reader and theatergoer, Bloom declares that bardolatry "ought to be even more a secular religion than it already is."[23] He also contends in the work (as in the title) that Shakespeare "invented" humanity, in that he prescribed the now-common practice of "overhearing" ourselves, which drives our changes. The two paragons of his theory are Sir John Falstaff of Henry IV and Hamlet, whom Bloom sees as representing self-satisfaction and self-loathing, respectively. Throughout Shakespeare, characters from disparate plays are imagined alongside and interacting with each other; this has been decried by numerous contemporary academics and critics as hearkening back to the out of fashion character criticism of A.C. Bradley and others, who happen to gather explicit praise in the book. As in The Western Canon, Bloom cheerfully attacks what he calls the "School of Resentment" for its failure to live up to the challenge of Shakespeare's universality and instead balkanizing the study of literature through various multicultural and historicist departments. Asserting Shakespeare's singular popularity throughout the world, Bloom proclaims him as the only multicultural author, and rather than the "social energies" historicists ascribe Shakespeare's authorship to, Bloom pronounces his modern academic foes – and indeed, all of society – to be "a parody of Shakespearian energies."

>> No.4874637

>>4874631
>Japanese men
Literally working themselves to death
Their own women don't want them

>> No.4874638

>>4874629
Except Shakespeare is literature. He's applying it to other literature. There's nothing extra-literary going on.

>> No.4874640

>>4874620
There's that whole middle eastern cult flogging us, thing.

>> No.4874643

I liked his Shakespeare criticism...at first. By the time I'd finished it, his worship of Falstaff and talking about him randomly no matter what play he was supposed to be talking about had made me hate the character.

>> No.4874644

>>4874635
>implying I'm reading that much Shrektext

>> No.4874645

>>4874638
He's applying it to Freudian analysis. "But Freud is literature!" So is Marx....

>> No.4874647

>>4874361
>thinks postmodern writing and art is shit
Uhhhh, hasn't he said Pynchon's the best writer alive?

>> No.4874650

>>4874644
>doesn't highlight to make it easy on the eys

>> No.4874652

>>4874645
He's applying Shakespeare to Freud, not the other way around. And Freud —is—literature, Marx is not, and that as far is I'm concerned is beyond arguing. Are you always this obtuse?

>> No.4874655

>>4874631

sort of related: i was talking to my female friend from japan the other day and she didn't know what feminism was. she also said when a woman says no she often means yes. my other friend who is into privilege checking and all that was shocked, it was glorious. "it goes against everything i've learnt."

the japanese girl emphasised the difference between "donkan" (explicit meaning) and "binkan" (implicit meaning), women often operating in the latter and men in the former hence the misunderstandings that arise between them (yin and yang?).

>>4874640

they had like 100 years of flourishing then it all went to shit. and their main role was to keep greek philosophy and mathematics alive until the dark ages were over anyway.

>> No.4874657
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4874657

>>4874645
>So is Marx.

No, it's not. Marx was an economist and a philosopher, he has nothing to do with literary bullshit. Das Kapital is not a work of "literature" any more than article published in a mainstream analytical philosophy journal is.

>> No.4874659

>>4874657
She knows

>> No.4874660

>>4874657

he referenced Dante once

>> No.4874661

>>4874652
>psychological analysis is literature
>social analysis is not
>Freud is literature but you can't use him to analyze literature with
>Shakespeare is literature so you can use him to analyze literature

>> No.4874665

>>4874657
And how much literature did Freud write about? Only things I know for sure are Greek tragedies, and I'm pretty sure he appropriated the names more than did any in depth reading of them

>> No.4874668

>>4874660
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1844/manuscripts/power.htm

>> No.4874671

>>4874665
Freud was a fool who engaged in pseudo-scientific psychological analysis. His work has no scientific or literary value. That, however, is beside the point. Saying that Marx wrote literature expands the definition of 'literature' so far that the term loses all meaning.

>> No.4874680

>>4874671

and modern psychology has a lot of scientific value by comparison, right? too bad rats and stats and meds never helped any one understand themselves or lead a better life.

>> No.4874682

>>4874661
>psychological analysis is literature
A largely defunct psychological approach would not be valued today if not for Freud's artfulness—have you read Freud?

>social analysis is not
Not necessarily, but Marx isn't. Capital is very clearly not a work of literature, that is it could not be studied or appreciated for its literary merits. It's philosophy. Freud is more dynamic, and psychology in general has a much less tenuous connection with literature than Marxist theory.

>Freud is literature but you can't use him to analyze literature with
I think this is what your chums on /pol/ call a strawman.

You are a seriously annoying pedant. I mean Christ it's awful reading your posts and knowing that replying to you infinitely would not convince you of your basic wrongness.

Like, how can you not see the difference between Bloom noticing the influence of highly influential literature and some strung-out effete going on about superstructures and bases in The Age of Innocence or some such shit?

>> No.4874683

>>4874671
I'm not saying Freud's ideas are worth anything, but if they count as "literature" then the definition would be broad enough to include Marx.

I initially grouped Freud into extra (non) literary analysis

>HE [Bloom] shoehorns literature [Shakespeare] into extra-literary analysis [Freud].
>>4874593

I then antipated someone would arbitrarily category Fruend as literature

>He's applying it [literature] to Freudian analysis. "But Freud is literature!" So is Marx....
>>4874645

>> No.4874685

>>4874671
>no literary value
Wrong

>> No.4874687

>>4874683
>anticipated
>Freud

>> No.4874690

>>4874685
Now he does. That's partially because so many writers and artists following Freud were influenced by him and worked his ideas into their perception.

>> No.4874705

>>4874665

http://web.mit.edu/allanmc/www/freud1.pdf

Genre fiction counts.

>> No.4874709

>>4874384
>Flaubert

You know he fucked boys in Egypt, right? He was no friend of the Right anyway.

>> No.4874717

>>4874527
I guess this was before he decided Toni Morrison was good after all.

>> No.4874728

>>4874705
Marx wrote some edgy poetry
http://homepages.which.net/~panic.brixtonpoetry/marxpoetry.pdf

>> No.4874771
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4874771

>> No.4874789

>>4874361

>Who is the best literary critic

Northrop Frye

>and why is it Harold Bloom?

It isn't. It's Northrop Frye.

>> No.4874865

To my knowledge (and someone correct me if I'm wrong because I'm certainly no Bloom expert) Bloom doesn't hate feminism or multiculturalism, he just feels they should not be a part of literary criticism and that works should not be included in academia/canon simply for being written by women and minorities rather than for their actual literary merit. He wants literature to be about art, not the political motives of critics and professors.

And he's totally right on that point, I don't see how anyone who cares about literature as an art form could argue against it. But OP I think you have a mistaken image of him as some "redpilled" idol of literature.

>> No.4874877

>hating postmodernists who criticize the vapidity of postmodernism

Dogmatic pleb

>> No.4874903

>>4874379
>pomo

Please stop this shit

>> No.4876352

>>4874865
this

>> No.4876524

>>4874629
>Western psychology is a Shakespearean invention
>much more than a Biblical invention
>much more than a Greek invention
>much more than Cervantes
>much more than an invention of any of the writers that influenced western culture in the 4800 years between the invention of writing and the birth of Shakespeare.

Now that's putting bardolatry on a whole new level.

>> No.4876553

>>4874655
>100 years
>implying not more like 400 years
>implying Middle-Eastern culture starts in the Middle Age

You visibly haven't heard of agriculture, , painting, sculpture, writing, the wheel, the windmill, algrebra or metalurgy.

>dark ages
I get it, you've never read any work on history that has been published less than one hundred years ago.

>> No.4876570

>>4876553
>this much anal peevishness

>> No.4876577

>>4874657
Marx heavily referenced Shakespeare (among others) in his works, and wanted Capital to be readable more like a novel than a philosophical treatise.

>> No.4876578

>>4876570
Great argumentation, thanks. I guess next time someone spouts utter bullshit before I'll smile and tell him "go on, you're so right".

>> No.4876579

>>4876577
Well he did a shit job

>> No.4876583

>>4876578
>this utter devastation

>> No.4876586

>>4876579
Bad literature is still literature.
>>4876583
We get it.

>> No.4876603

>>4876586
Capital is not a novel even if Marx wanted it to be (not that I believe you)

>> No.4876610

>>4876586
>this foppish pedantry

>> No.4876629

>>4876603
Of course not. But someone failing at his job doesn't me the result cannot be literature.
I just thought that the idea that Marx has nothing to do with literature had to be challenged.

>>4876610
You're getting more inventive. Interesting.

>> No.4876639

>>4876629
Marx's intentions to have Capital "resemble" literature don't exactly make it literature

>> No.4876642

>>4874526

Please man, don't even talk like that in jokes. You have no idea how psychologically painful rape is for a girl and her family, and to be killed in the woods like an animal... Images like that make me sick.

>> No.4876646

>>4876639
I was agreeing with that. Move on.

>> No.4876652

>>4876642
Do you seriously think that such a post is a good idea on 4chan?

>> No.4876659

>>4876646
>being this pedantic

>> No.4876662

>>4876642
I just fapped to the picture.

>> No.4876664

>>4876652

I know that anonymity and immature desire to shock makes people on 4chan produce atrocious posts, but I just needed to say that.

>> No.4876672

>>4876664
Get a load of this goy

>> No.4876675

>>4876664
I will metaphorically and figuratively rape you and your mother at the same time and then pour motor oil into your dogs anus and make you drink it

Gb2 >>>/r/shitredditsays

>> No.4876678

>>4874379


>I'm afraid of objectively superior viewpoints and therefore need to immerse myself in an echo chamber so my fragile worldview can't be challenged by facts and reasoning

if leftoids like 'facts and rason' so much how come none of them believe in evolution?

checkmate atheists

>> No.4876679

>>4874379
>privilege

>> No.4876682

>>4876678
>You've offended me here today so please go to the political board so we can talk about marxism in peace

Seriously, the leftists faggots on this board are retarded beyond belief.

>> No.4876708

>>4876678
That guy is a retard, but please fuck off with the "objective" shit.

>> No.4876714

>>4874361
>bloom
>conservative
you're retarded

he also doesn't think post modern writing. also, go read an actual bloom book faggot, and not one of his pop-crit ones. read map of misreadings or something

>> No.4876716

>>4876714
>he also doesn't think post modern writing
is shit

>> No.4876721
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4876721

>>4876708


i was quoting him for irony friend, a terminal lack of self-reflection is a symptom of conditional solipsism.

>> No.4876728

>>4876708
>Being literally objective

Oh geez ;^)

>> No.4876806
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4876806

May as well post one.

>> No.4876831

>>4876642
Oh fuck off, the double-down emphasis on how horrible rape is doesn't fix anything, it just makes people far too aware of a nonproblem

>> No.4876877
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4876877

>>4874516
>getting this upset about limp-wristed criticism toward a shitty facebook/tumblr thing

This board is a trip.

>> No.4876889

>>4876664
faggot

>> No.4876935

>>4876877
While I think it's probably better to keep world atrocities in mind simply for the purpose of being able to put everything in perspective, I have to agree with this post.

Of course there are always terrible things happening somewhere, but that doesn't mean that everyday annoyances simply cease to exist in the face of warfare or whatever. It seems like a dumb use of time to point out to someone complaining about a minor discomfort that "Hey dude, you could totally be raped and killed right now". That's not going to awaken some kind of greater world understanding, it's just being a weird asshole.

>> No.4876941

>>4876935
maybe it's an attempt at humor

>> No.4876964

>>4876877
Shut up. JUst shup up.

>> No.4876976

I think we're living in that thing that French guy wrote about, the hyperrealist thing- something to do with simulation

all our politics and ideas are these weird messes of symbols interacting in this massively complex world trying to filter some sanity into it by interpreting it with a particular ideology

>> No.4876992

>>4876964
Are you really this mad over him calling the most toxic tripfag's retarded MSPaint shit retarded?

>> No.4877000
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4877000

>>4874516
Wait so...You're reacting to other people reacting to the zeitgeist of spoiled western girls by showing that women get raped?

Hahah what!?!

Let's put this in perspective.

"Just girly things" was something created by girls that trended heavily on tumblr. A couple of men got hold of this, and decided to parody this female meme by augmenting the pictures to show their "original meme" to pictures of men at war (in a satirical manner). Note, most of the "men at war" are from western countries.

You being offended by this, that men were making fun of spoiled western female brats, decided to poke fun at the people making fun of these spoiled western brats, by posting a picture of a non-western woman being raped by two soldiers, side by side to a male western spoiled brat playing video games.

The reason why the parody you posted has no weight, is that men don't post "just boy things," they're making fun of western female brats posting "just girly things". Your parody implies that there is a whiny subculture of men trending audacious memes about "boy culture", then showing that "women get raped so check your privileged".

I don't expect women like you to use logic (as evidence by your trip and your awful posts), so I spelled it all out for you.

>> No.4877017

>>4874516
>>4876642

>men can't be raped

fuck off

>> No.4877035

>>4874527

>there's absolutely no possible way blacks just don't write good books often, it's entirely the fault of the man who has dedicated his life to literature

>> No.4877041

>>4877035
>Everyone's face when blacks think they are people

Come on left-wing. Everyone knows you are racist as fuck and just mortified by it. I mean look at your policies. And their countries. ;^)

>> No.4877046

>>4876664
haha faggot

>> No.4877063

>>4877041

I don;t know if you're trying to mock but that has nothing to do with my point

>> No.4877064

rape is good

>> No.4877069

>>4877041
>everyone is just as retarded as me. They just pretend not to be. To seem smart.

>> No.4877127

>>4877000

#FemmyfisterGetsREKT

>> No.4877239

>>4874384
>he seriously keeps posting this

This is a joke ye?

>> No.4877260

>>4874361
I thought you reactionaries thought war was grand.