/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.4873114]

I did not always have a spiritual life, during my teenage years I was a self-proclaimed atheist. Like many adolescents, I discovered Nietzsche and decided that I didn't need God anymore. From Nietzsche, I delved into other existentialist thinkers and was seduced by the promise that I could be master of my universe if only I possessed the strength of will to do what was necessary. Having been shielded from any significant hardship during my upbringing, I was confident that I could repel any adversary and that I alone possessed the power to achieve my goals. Furthermore, I became comfortable with the notion that “good” and “evil” were relative terms and that fixing either was oppressive. It was not enough that I should be liberated from the shackles of religion, but I felt a responsibility to awaken others to the perils of theism. I was the first to mock whenever spirituality became the topic of discussion and God bless my pious mother for tolerating me during my existentialist phase.

[Anonymous No.4873120]

>>4873114
Upon entering college, the realization that other people did not particularly care about me challenged my relativistic mindset. My realization was not a criticism or a negative thing, only an awareness of people’s tendency to view me in basically the same way I viewed them: inconsequential from a practical perspective. I realized that my relativistic philosophy trapped me inside my own subjectivity; any judgement I made became merely a reflection of myself rather than of an external objective reality. I had become master of my universe only to discover that the reality I created for myself could not satisfy me. Furthermore, I became uncomfortably aware that I often employed rationalizations to excuse my behavior whenever I felt judged by someone else. My relativistic philosophy dictated that whenever there was conflict between two perspectives, both parties were “right” because the definition of “right” was relative to each individual. Yet, I felt that in certain situations (particularly those that involved me directly) one person had to be “right” and the other person “wrong." Thus, no matter how much I agreed with relativism in theory I found it utterly unsatisfactory in practice.

[Anonymous No.4873124]

>>4873120
I needed a new philosophy that defined reality in an external objective way. Another way
of putting this is that I desired to believe in a set of universal laws. I believed that for these laws to be truly objective they could not originate from humanity because otherwise they would be
influenced by their author’s subjective experience. Initially, I looked to nature as a source for
these objective laws. I had always been captivated by the animal kingdom and began investigating how to apply "natural law" to my life. I was inspired by the apparent simplicity of the natural world; every species instinctively knows how to behave and I wondered if humanity possessed a similar instinctual knowledge buried beneath the customs imposed on us by society. I began watching nature documentaries with the intention of finding parallels between the animal kingdom and our own. The first similarity I noticed was the necessity of specialization; every species fills a niche in the same way human society is compartmentalized. Every animal has a role to play that caters to their unique strengths and weaknesses. Some may find this observation obvious, but it was somewhat of a revelation to me because having been under Nietzsche's tutelage for so long, I felt a pressure to be good at everything and would feel ashamed when I was unable to meet the superhuman expectations I had set for myself. An elephant cannot outrun a gazelle and I was naive to believe that I could surpass all of my peers in everything simply by out willing them. I was learning to accept the limitations that God (although at that time I would have said "nature") had placed upon me. I was also learning to accept that the strengths I prided myself over were not so much earned as they were simply inherent to my personality. Even at this cursory stage of investigation I was already feeling as though the animal kingdom had much to teach me.

[Anonymous No.4873127]

>>4873124
The second similarity I noticed between the natural world and our own was the inevitability of hierarchy. I was struck by the fact that all social creatures subscribed to some kind of pecking order. Just like each species plays a role in the ecosystem, each individual within a species plays a role in their social group. I found primate interactions particularly fascinating for the obvious reason that they are our closest relatives in the natural world. The cynic in me was unsurprised to discover that egalitarianism isn't popular among primates. You don't have to be Jane Goodall to see that some chimps get the banana while others are left holding the peel. I was very interested in learning why some chimps dominated and how these alpha chimps kept the others from revolting. Like many things in the animal kingdom, the answer was relatively simple: the biggest, toughest males asserted themselves through violence and I'm ashamed to admit that I found the "law of the jungle" appealing on a visceral level. There was no need for diplomacy or to fret over reaching a consensus, all you needed was muscle. Clearly I had not completely discarded my Nietzschean tendencies. However, there were several significant obstacles preventing me from completely embracing this brutish philosophy (thank God). The first being that I've never been physically imposing. I'd lifted weights since high school and although I'm in decent shape for my size, no amount of bicep curls could exchange my slender frame for the hulking mass that I imagined I needed if I wanted to become a true "alpha." The second obstacle I faced was that I am not a particularly aggressive person by nature. My lack of size and easy-going demeanor made it difficult for me to command respect in the same way my simian idols were able to. However, that didn't stop me from trying. I traded my philosophy books for protein shakes and succumbed to the exhausting macho-posturing that is more befitting a monkey than a man.

[Anonymous No.4873132]

>>4873127
My efforts were "rewarded" by the fact I became better at pressuring girls to go out with me and could exchange surly glances with guys who were smaller than me. Unsurprisingly, I felt like a fraud and even though I possessed some of the trappings of worldly success (at least those that are attainable by a college freshmen) every "victory" required strenuous exertion on my part.
Furthermore, I couldn't appreciate the fruits of my labor because I was constantly trying to climb the social ladder; I had to make sure I was hanging out with the "right" people and going to the "best" parties. I chose friends based on the social capital they offered me rather than off of personal affection. Needless to say, I was unhappy but I was also confused because I felt like I was following the "laws of nature" by essentially yielding to my appetites. My sense of emptiness soon manifested itself into a cynical attitude toward life.

By God's grace, a girl I was trying to ask out invited me to her bible study. I agreed thinking that I could score points with her and perhaps convince some of these naive Christians the errors of their ways. However, I was surprised when my arguments against Christianity were met with valid counter-arguments and defenses. I realized that my prior ideas about what "Christianity" was were false and that I had to re-learn the faith if I wanted to have honest intellectual disagreement with it. So my initial serious investigation of Christianity was from the perspective of an outsider looking for defects. That is, I remained determined to oppose God even if it meant using His words against Him–– I can truly say I went kicking and screaming toward my ultimate conversion.

[Anonymous No.4873136]

>>4873132
I began studying the bible more seriously and gained a begrudging respect for scripture. My respect arose from witnessing the philosophical harmony between the various biblical books. I could see that the Abrahamic tradition was a self-sufficient mythos composed of multiple books which all presented a consistent spiritual attitude and tradition. That is, Christianity is internally consistent provided one takes the initial leap of faith that an omnipotent God exists. I was not yet ready to make such a leap but I felt obligated to concede some credit to the biblical authors. However, my newfound appreciation for the Bible's spiritual consistency did not remove my skepticism towards its supernatural message. I could concede that the Bible contained sound moral teachings but I refused to believe that Peter walked on water or that Christ rose from the dead. Thankfully, the bible study leaders helped me rediscover an attitude of wonder toward existence. They explained to me that it is foolish to separate the Bible's moral messages from its
supernatural claims because they reinforce each other; God's moral authority is confirmed through his mastery over the laws of His creation. Without miracles, it would be possible to dismiss the Biblical message as mere suggestion rather than eternal law. I struggled with the fact that I had never witnessed any supernatural phenomena but was consoled by Paul's reminder that "faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." (Heb 11:1). It was reassuring to see that the earliest Christians had wrestled with similar doubts.

[Anonymous No.4873190]

Always sad to read of someone's downward spiral into complete lunacy

[Anonymous No.4873210]

>>4873190

Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

- 2 Pt 3:3

[Anonymous No.4873227]

Great story OP, I'm a christian too.
Have you read Dostoevsky? I think if you did, that you would have definitely mentioned him in some part of your story.

[Anonymous No.4873236]

>>4873227

Thanks, yes I've read him. The Brothers K is my favorite novel. Zosima is such a bro.

[Anonymous No.4873314]

>>4873236
The Brothers K is one of my favorite books.
Anyways, if some atheists asked you what is the importance of Bible, and why he/she should read it, what would be your answer?

[Anonymous No.4873319]

>>4873314

Because it is the truth.

[Anonymous No.4873361]

>Me
>Me
>Me
>I
>I
>I
>posting your life story as if anyone asked

Sure you're not a solipsist op?

[Anonymous No.4873370]

>>4873136
Good story OP
What kid of books are you reading right now, and could you explain a little more about the "philosophical harmony" of the bible

[Anonymous No.4873388]

> I'm a transindental existential is why am I displeased with inherent absurdity and meaninglessness of life?
>I resign my personal failings and woes to God's plan for me

What a shameful thought

[Anonymous No.4873394]

>>4873388
Whatever works.

I ascribe my atheism to God's plan for me. Sounds legit.

[Anonymous No.4873396]

>>4873370

Thank you, I'm still working on it.

Right now I'm reading Ivanhoe because I'm a sucker for adventure stories.

What I mean is that the various Biblical authors all approach reality from the same perspective; they all have the same likes and dislikes. The biblical "attitude" is characterized by faithfulness to God and a spiritual posture of praise. The more you read the Bible, the more this attitude becomes a palpable feeling within yourself which allows to you adopt a biblical perspective towards your own life. Once I started doing this, I became happier which is a little miracle.

[Anonymous No.4873401]

>>4873388
What's shameful about accepting help from something greater than yourself?

[Anonymous No.4873416]

>>4873396
Thanks for asking, Im a Christian myself.
I also believe the part you say about objectivity: you have to look it from under or from above.

[Anonymous No.4873430]

I'd maybe read your book, OP. Read Kierkegaard? Youth tend to go over him in favor of the writings of non-theists.

[Anonymous No.4873435]

"Like many adolescents, I discovered Nietzsche and decided that I didn't need God anymore."

This happened. I can tell because it reads like textbook apologetics.

[Anonymous No.4873447]

>>4873435
You can 'tell' because it's a common occurrence.

[Anonymous No.4873451]

Well I suppose I understand you OP. There are many roads to many similar paths.

I believe lots of people believe the same things, but we call them different things and often, we are separated from each other by minute differences that make us feel separated by dimensions.

[Anonymous No.4873455]

Not your personal blog.

[Philosophag !!0Xo9gjt/vr2 No.4873471]

>>4873114
>>4873120
>>4873124
The third part was ridiculous, "Frames" aren't a thing, human strength training and muscle mass are only capped at calorie intake, and CNS stress and adaptation.
>>4873132
4th part is meh, Christians have practised dogma for a long time, you would conclude they would have found out how to convince others of their delusions.
>>4873136
Your "striving for a set of universal laws" is also subjective. Not everyone feels that need.

And your conclusion is dreadful. I have a purpose ordained by a supernatural being because I'm a special snowflake!

Wow, you're only the millionth 19 year old to ever think of that idea.

[Anonymous No.4873482]

>>4873471

God has a plan for each of us.

[Anonymous No.4873484]

>>4873114
Stopped reading on the third post

No one gives a shit, and becoming a Christian in response to existentialism is pretty dumb

[Anonymous No.4873487]

>>4873114
If someone like that should come back down into the cave and take up his old seat, wouldn’t he get his eyes full of darkness, coming suddenly from the sunlight?

[Anonymous No.4873490]

>>4873114
"Wouldn't he remember his first home, what passed for wisdom there, and his fellow prisoners, and consider himself happy and them pitiable? And wouldn't he disdain whatever honors, praises, and prizes were awarded there to the ones who guessed best which shadows followed which? Moreover, were he to return there, wouldn't he be rather bad at their game, no longer being accustomed to the darkness? Wouldn't it be said of him that he went up and came back with his eyes corrupted, and that it's not even worth trying to go up? And if they were somehow able to get their hands on and kill the man who attempts to release and lead them up, wouldn't they kill him?".

I'm sorry you are weak OP, I truly am. Living a lie; accepting the unprovable as proof of your diction is the final mark of a man who has given up and accepts a life of mundane, insignificant nothingness.

[Anonymous No.4873494]

>>4873487

Remember Lot's wife.

- Lk 17:32

[Anonymous No.4873496]

>>4873471

>Wow, you're only the millionth tripfag to ever shitpost on 4chan!

[Anonymous No.4873505]

>>4873490
>the final mark of a man who has given up and accepts a life of mundane, insignificant nothingness

Ironically, I now believe my life plays an essential role in an epic battle between Good and Evil that has raged from time immemorial.

But maybe that's mundane to you.

[Anonymous No.4873514]

>>4873494
Opheus nigga, fucking Orpheus.

OP, I am an agnostic myself and I sometimes fear the void that may surrounds us. Your choice is pretty brave and thats great.

[Anonymous No.4873520]

>>4873514

Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:

- Mt 7:7

[Anonymous No.4873525]

>>4873505
It sounds like you've fully adopted delusional thoughts in response to your deep-seated feelings of inadequacy, worthlessness, and futility. I worry for your mental health, anon.

[Anonymous No.4873528]

>In our youthful years we still venerate and despise without the art of NUANCE, which is the best gain of life, and we have rightly to do hard penance for having fallen upon men and things with Yea and Nay. Everything is so arranged that the worst of all tastes, THE TASTE FOR THE UNCONDITIONAL, is cruelly befooled and abused, until a man learns to introduce a little art into his sentiments, and prefers to try conclusions with the artificial, as do the real artists of life. The angry and reverent spirit peculiar to youth appears to allow itself no peace, until it has suitably falsified men and things, to be able to vent its passion upon them: youth in itself even, is something falsifying and deceptive. Later on, when the young soul, tortured by continual disillusions, finally turns suspiciously against itself—still ardent and savage even in its suspicion and remorse of conscience: how it upbraids itself, how impatiently it tears itself, how it revenges itself for its long self-blinding, as though it had been a voluntary blindness! In this transition one punishes oneself by distrust of one's sentiments; one tortures one's enthusiasm with doubt, one feels even the good conscience to be a danger, as if it were the self-concealment and lassitude of a more refined uprightness; and above all, one espouses upon principle the cause AGAINST "youth."—A decade later, and one comprehends that all this was also still—youth!

[Anonymous No.4873530]

>>4873494
>unironically quoting scripture as a place of guidance

besides, you're misinterpreting the story. The story of Lot's wife is a metaphor.

[Anonymous No.4873536]

>>4873525

Pray for me anon.

[Anonymous No.4873541]

>>4873114
>>4873120
>>4873124
>>4873127
>>4873132
>>4873136

[Anonymous No.4873544]

>>4873536
I don't pray, but if I had the ability to effect change in this situation, I would do so in your benefit because I am a sympathetic being.

[Anonymous No.4873554]

>>4873544

'For I know the plans that I have for you,' declares the LORD, ‘plans for welfare and not for calamity to give you a future and a hope.'

- Jeremiah 29:11

- Jeremiah 29:11

[Anonymous No.4873570]

>>4873554
No.

[Anonymous No.4873673]

>>4873554
>plans for welfare and not for calamity
God confirmed for socialist.

[Anonymous No.4873675]

>>4873114
>Not embracing the absurd and praising Eris

[Anonymous No.4873679]

>>4873673
You can't be a socialist and do fuck all while people starve and die.

God confirmed for hypocrite.

[Anonymous No.4873687]

>>4873675

And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

- Matthew 24:11

[Anonymous No.4873696]

>>4873687
It seems you have the curse of Greyface there my friend

[Anonymous No.4873704]

>>4873687
My brother used to have a shitload of those cards, I wish we hadn't thrown them away.

[Anonymous No.4873711]

>>4873696

Though you have not seen him, you love him. Though you do not now see him, you believe in him and rejoice with joy that is inexpressible and filled with glory,

- 1 Peter 1:8

[Anonymous No.4873730]

>>4873711
Prove it

[Anonymous No.4873731]

>>4873711
Quoting scripture is not a justifiable substitute for an argument, especially when the passage quoted is self-referential or in some other manner unjustified.

For example, in response to everything you have said

"Christ was a good man, but no god. His followers misunderstand much. This quote cant be countered by another quote, Says I, True God. Yes, I am even stronger than that really strong God Christians believe in. Seriously, there is nothing you can say to disprove what I say."
-Holy Book 500

[Anonymous No.4873838]

Thanks for that op.

[Anonymous No.4873847]

>>4873530
>The story of Lot's wife is a metaphor
Prove it. Besides, he never said it wasn't a metaphor.

[Anonymous No.4873979]

>>4873455
this place isn't anyone's anything, shut the fuck up

[Anonymous No.4874006]

>>4873979
>Agreeing
>Not realizing it
>Getting butt flustered

[Anonymous No.4874057]

>>4873847
Because, obviously she didn't literally turn to salt. Duh. It's a metaphor.

[Anonymous No.4874109]

>mithologic tales are actually allegorical
what a riveting tale

[Anonymous No.4874144]

>>4873124
>I subjectively decided I needed an objective worldview

And then, shockingly, the objective worldview becomes a subjective reflection.

When I first came to /lit/ and heard that this was a good place to be rid of the horribly repetitive and shallow scientismic views of the modern day, I was overjoyed. Then I found that most of you are just worse.

Your religion and scientismic atheism are more closely related than you think. Both pine longingly to be rid of fundamental philosophical problems, one by ignoring it, the other by waving it away with magic.

[Anonymous No.4874160]

>>4873319
Is this meant to be ironic? Have you ever read the Bible. Most of it is a cultural handbook for Jews. The rest is about some Bronze Age political philosopher trying to lean on the divine for argument.

[Anonymous No.4874197]

>>4873490
I'm sure your life is anything but mundane, right?
You're really doing something great, something that will be remembered?