[ 3 / biz / cgl / ck / diy / fa / ic / jp / lit / sci / vr / vt ] [ index / top / reports ] [ become a patron ] [ status ]
2023-11: Warosu is now out of extended maintenance.

/lit/ - Literature

View post   
File: 176 KB, 650x269, taylor-swift-money-makers-990.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4869578 No.4869578[DELETED]  [Reply] [Original]

How do I free myself from the shackles of capitalism? Or at least my ideological outlook?

>> No.4869595

>>4869578
>How do I free myself from the shackles of capitalism?

Abolish the value form (and of necessity wage labour) as part of a self-articulating totalising proletariat.

>Or at least my ideological outlook?
All ideologies are bourgeois. Ideology is the form of individuated bourgeois thought in this society. Only praxis can be tentatively debourgeosified.

>> No.4869626

Nick Land

>> No.4870676

>>4869578
Where ever the road to Revolution started, and whence it leads; the map of such is an image board.

If the world around you cannot stir rebellion, you will never find the will.

>> No.4870683

>How do I free myself from the shackles of capitalism?

WHAT DO YOU EVEN MEAN BY THAT?

>> No.4870700

>>4869578
it's very difficult, if not impossible
you must either go full lumpen-mode, causing shit wherever you go, dumpster diving, you will probably get arrested
OR
work within the system to a point where you have a sinecure (like a professorship) or come up with some bullshit product that makes you a bunch of money (an app?), or be an investment banker then drop out of society

as for your ideological outlook alone... maybe one dimensional man by marcuse

>> No.4870702

>>4870683
It is a metaphor for the corrupt state of living in this decaying world of false values.

The idea of money is a sick game and a kind of religion that has been at the center of every atrocity in history.

>> No.4870712

>>4869626

>edgy cyberpunk fascism

>> No.4870720

you should be thankful such a system exists, you degenerate fool

>> No.4870726

>>4870702
>The idea of money
>MONEY IS EVIL!!!
l o l

>> No.4870731

>>4870702

"...the center of every atrocity in history"

Yeah, you should stop making such broad statements unless you want to be totally wrong all the time, ever always

>> No.4870745

>>4870726
It is a tool some wield for good, but most use as a weapon. The evil that it causes in a weak willed person is OBVIOUS. Your blindness, and people like you, are only perpetuating the crises of this failing system.

>>4870731
Back your counter-claim up.

>> No.4870751

>>4870702
>It is a metaphor for the corrupt state of living in this decaying world of false values.

IF YOU SEEK TO DETERMINE YOUR MORALITY VIA AN ECONOMIC SYSTEM, WHAT IS "WRONG" IS NOT THE WORLD, BUT YOURSELF –YOU ARE "STUPID"; CAPITALISM IS AN ECONOMIC SYSTEM, NOT A MORAL, OR ETHICAL SYSTEM; MORALITY COMES FROM ONESELF.

THE WORLD IS CURRENTLY IN DECAY, BUT NOT BECAUSE OF CAPITALISM; YOUR DISLIKE OF CAPITALISM SEEMS IRRATIONAL, IF NOT BORDERLINE PATHOLOGICAL.

>The idea of money is a sick game and a kind of religion that has been at the center of every atrocity in history.

THAT STATEMENT IS IDIOTIC & RIDICULOUS.

>> No.4870763

>>4870745
Yes, people kill each other over objects. Money is the most valuable object.

Maybe you're just a retard

>> No.4870769
File: 235 KB, 688x1251, image.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4870769

>>4870745
Okay that's nice, sweetheart. Enjoy shitposting on the internet and collecting autismbux or doing some abstract useless horseshit that no one would ever pay you in food to do ;^)

>> No.4870772

>>4869595
This is a joke right

>> No.4870773

>>4870745

Obviously any element of sarcasm or humour to what I said went over your head, you brilliant autist you.

But seriously the backing of my counter-claim was quoting you: you claimed money was at the center of every atrocity in history. Burden of proof isn't mine, it's yours.

>> No.4870781

>>4870751
Belief in money comes from the self. So?
Many aspects of the world is in decay, and you can trace these roots back to capital.

IT IS TRUTH. And no word salad can wipe it away.

>>4870763
Again: It is a false value. Money hasn't any value but what we assign it.
Fighting over oil is one thing, but money is actually worthless.

>> No.4870792

>>4870773
>you claimed money was at the center of every atrocity in history
Not him but if you can reasonably assume every action worth knowing about ever has been in someone's self interest, and also assume that the most dramatic of these can be considered atrocities under additional circumstances, then all atrocities were commited in the name of money, such that money is seen as a symbol for all kinds of resources.

By this logic all cooperation is driven by money too

>> No.4870798

>>4870792

Symbols don't subsume that which they represent, otherwise they wouldn't be signifiers but the signified.

>> No.4870801

>>4870769
-> >>4870683


>>4870773
Read some history, m'boy.

>> No.4870804

>>4870781
lmao money is worthless?

it doesn't matter if it's symbolic, you still need it to live, so it's not worthless.

>> No.4870806

>>4870801

Okay, again, you're dodging addressing the burden of proof you've taken on. Taking one symbol for utility, or even utility itself, as the sole source of all atrocity is highly reductive, inasmuch as its presumption precludes any other sources of atrocity.

>> No.4870808

>>4870781
>Belief in money comes from the self. So?

ONE DOES NOT "BELIEVE" IN MONEY; ONE USES MONEY; MONEY IS A MEANS, NOT A END.

>Many aspects of the world is in decay, and you can trace these roots back to capital.

NO.

>IT IS TRUTH. And no word salad can wipe it away.

WHAT IS "TRUTH"?

>> No.4870820

>>4870804
Money is, in truth, worthless.

>it doesn't matter if it's symbolic,
There's no "if" about it.
>you still need it to live,
We live on food. Did you know food actually come from plants and animals and not printed papers?
>so it's not worthless.
WE ASSIGN IT WORTH. It is a religion of a sort (The only real one left) I have to use it, you have to use it, but it's value isn't even fixed. It fluctuates at the whims of jerks in suites who don't really care a shit about you or I.

>> No.4870831

>>4870820

He didn't say food isn't something we need, he said money IS something you need. You did a nice job knocking down that strawman.

>> No.4870840

>>4870772

If only.

>> No.4870850

>>4870820

You're really on the fucking ropes here, just get out.

>> No.4870853

>>4870745
ur a fucken dumass, all im gonna say

>> No.4870855

>>4870820
>strawman
lmao money is the last real religion left now? Getting a little too over philosophical there mate.

>> No.4870860

>>4870798
Im fixing his statement; atrocities commited for money, but because of their representation for self interest

>> No.4870865

>>4870820
There is worth in convenience.

/thread

>> No.4870869

>>4870808
>WHAT IS "TRUTH"?
Alien to you, apparently
>>4870806
Ah, there you go, loading words into my mouth to suite you. Where in history should I begin? Pick a war or something. I'll connect the dots for you li'l fella

>>4870831
And I was saying you need food to live. And food does not come from money.

>> No.4870870

>>4870745
>sustaining yourself from dying is evil

>> No.4870873

>>4870820
Money is used because it makes life EASIER. It's EASIER to trade money for whatever you want than some random item(s) for whatever you want. It also makes paying wages much easier.

>> No.4870875

>>4870860

As long as you understand money =/= utility, only one of the shortest paths to it for innumerable intents and purpose

>> No.4870877

>>4870751
:)

>> No.4870880

>>4870869
You can suite me any time you like

>> No.4870887

>>4870869
>And I was saying you need food to live. And food does not come from money.

If you can convince everyone in a metropolitan city to grow food in a way that it can be delivered with less effort down the street to the people next store, thus easing the necessity of money, in stead of shipping them from farms hundreds of miles away i will call you the messiah

>> No.4870890

>>4870877
epik :::DDD

>> No.4870891

>>4870820
your whole symbolism argument is falling apart at the seams.

you can attach symbolism to just about everything, (handshakes, fashion, etc). just because the inherence of that symbolism of that thing is void DOESN"T mean it's worthless.

>> No.4870892

>>4870869

Alright, you still definitely said money is at "...the center of every atrocity in history". It's your claim, provide some factual evidence.

Oh right, you can't, because it's a value claim of immense burden to say anything is at the center of all historical atrocities. The proposition "X is at the center of every atrocity in history" is puerile and reductive, just as I said before and you still have yet to answer to that point.

>> No.4870897

>>4870875
But everyone who commited atrocities for money also understood that

>> No.4870899

>>4870887
But you should trade your work for money! Like if you're a math professor offer a five minute lecture on measure theory for a sack of potatoes and some carrots.

>> No.4870900

>>4870897

Which ones?

>> No.4870905

>>4870900
All of them

>> No.4870906

>>4870850
No one has countered with anything of substance.

>>4870853
Autismalism.

>>4870855
Just an aside really. What Christian believes in the god of two hundred years ago? Even the Catholic church is accepting evolution in part.

>>4870860
Acceptable

>>4870865
"There is worth in convenience. Thread/"
And?

>>4870870
Straw
>>4870873
It makes life easier for SOME. Abominable for many. Miserable for quite a lot. shitty and a few thousand more.

>> No.4870913

>>4870906
>Acceptable

>Strawman

Both of these are me and if you view them differently then you are not looking at this issue objectively.

>> No.4870914

>>4870905

Name one and show me factual evidence bearing that claim out, that that individual believed money was among the shortest paths to utility. Sounds like a pretty goddamn specific thought for Napoleon to have.

>> No.4870915

>>4870906
Sure, but there are still 2.18 billion Christians in the world, so outta here with that nonsense.

Anyways, just because the Christian view has changed from what it has in the past doesn't mean that there are any less people who worship that religion.

>> No.4870916

>>4870906
>It makes life easier for SOME. Abominable for many. Miserable for quite a lot. shitty and a few thousand more.
Its not going to make a factory workers life easier if hes paid in hamsters

>> No.4870925

>>4870914
Its not specific at all, its general as fuck. And thats the point

>> No.4870926
File: 56 KB, 576x418, 11101.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4870926

>>4870916

>> No.4870931

>>4870914

If it's generally true, you should have specific instances all over the place. Gravity is generally true and I can qualify that claim with specific proof, e.g. dropping any given object and watching it fall.

>> No.4870932

>>4870887
We can do that. We aren't really stupid people, we're just raised that way.

>>4870891
>your whole symbolism argument is falling apart at the seams.
I know damn well what worth money has. IT. IS. IMAGINARY. There's no seams falling apart here. (It's a spook. THE spook that runs your life. And wealthy men control it, not you)

>>4870892
Please, after you. Find the exception. Say, the bombing of Pearl Harbor, go on, say it. I'll connect the dots to money being behind it all. /pol/ is fond of blaming Jews. Not "those wealthy Jews" Heavens no! To scary close to the truth.

>> No.4870933

>>4870772
>>4870840

The nature of capitalism is the value form, ie the wage system. The only way to free yourself from capitalism is to abolish the wage system. The only way to do this without lapsing backwards into a lower organisation society (ie: as a result of massive environmental degradation and war we live in Barter Town), the only way to do this is through a total, ie a social class. The only class with the capacity for this society is the proletariat.

As to the second claim you ought to be able to solve this: believing ideology is capable of rectification leads to the problems of the Frankfurt School. Rejecting subjectivity in history leads to Althusser. Rejecting class struggle leads to academic Marxism. The only hope is with the proles, and the form of proletarian intelligence is collective lying in the spaces between: it is praxis.

Fucksake cunts, catch up on your fucking reading.

>> No.4870934

>>4870925
>If it's generally true, you should have specific instances all over the place. Gravity is generally true and I can qualify that claim with specific proof, e.g. dropping any given object and watching it fall.

>> No.4870935

>>4870933

Thank god I'm salaried, feels good being free from capitalism.

>> No.4870936

>>4870932
>We can do that. We aren't really stupid people, we're just raised that way.

It doesnt matter if you can. You arent

>> No.4870938

Taylor Swift is cool

and that's my thought for the day

>> No.4870939

>>4870932

You'll connect the dots like a goddamn paranoid schizophrenic, is what you'll do. So /pol/ blames the Jews for everything? You blame money. Congratulations, you built your very own anti-idol!

>> No.4870940

>>4870933

>some guy wrote this down once (in a political pamphlet)

>therefore it must be true

for fuck's sake, catch up on your critical fucking thinking.

>> No.4870942

>>4870932

In what sense is it imaginary? Because I could swear I've got some in my wallet right now...

Try articulating yourself a bit beyond your personal assumptions when you talk to people and you won't sound so insufferable. You might not be on here all the time, you might get out a bit, you know?

>> No.4870943

>>4870933
>yfw youre replying to a monarchist

>> No.4870946

>>4870932
Let me ask you this, what is your ideal, money free world? If you could just change the way society works and eliminate money, what does that look like?

>> No.4870947

>>4870913
I guess the greentext was a little vague.

>>4870915
I wont go into it.
But I hope Francis gets behind measures at taming capitalism.

>>4870916
>Paid
There could be no such thing as that.

>> No.4870949

>>4870932
Wealthy men will control you no matter how they let you eat, idiot. Theres only 2 ways out and they both lead back into it

>> No.4870950

>>4870906
>It makes life easier for SOME. Abominable for many. Miserable for quite a lot. shitty and a few thousand more.
Really? Go trade some potatoes for a computer and see how well that goes. It makes life easier for EVERYONE unless you have no need to trade anything.

>> No.4870951

>>4870932

Why would anyone ever claim they know the objective value of money, as if they could actually totally escape their own lens of perception?

>> No.4870952

>>4870947
So hes GIVEN hamsters? Traded? Dunno why you have a problem with the word paid

>> No.4870957

>>4870947
>There could be no such thing as that.
????? is this an epik trole?

>> No.4870962

acquire new shackles. old shackles will instantly go away.

>> No.4870963

>>4870932
ur worth is imaginary LMAO u useless fukass livin in ur moms basement

>> No.4870971

>>4870947
no, go ahead, please, i'd like to know what paranoid delusion you've come up with.

>> No.4870974

>>4870935
>Thank god I'm salaried, feels good being free from capitalism.
ISWYDT

>>4870940
Let me show you my workplace, you've obviously never seen one.

>>4870943
>Dribble
He uses a tripcode.

>> No.4870975

>>4870951
There's no objective value for anything, anyway.

>> No.4870977
File: 145 KB, 730x1095, 1355610197814.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4870977

>>4870942
Are you really this stupid?
I have already admitted to the preeminence of the value of cash in this sick broken world. It has been used for good in history. But as a motivating factor it has also brought corruption at every level of society. The thing itself is benign of course. The sword is a just a slip of metal. It can cut cheese and bread for the kids sandwiches. Nice. Lets do lunch!
Oh, but the sword has been used for lots of other things too.

>>4870946
Far better. Hardly the utopia so many fear, but far far better.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRF8JcQkQmk

>> No.4870979

This guys probably in his basement thinking
>golly i guess people just arent ready to accept a world without money, where everyone is happy and the stars are conquered and peoples lost pets come home and fairies and pixies are real :) gosh im so smart

>> No.4870984

>>4870977
>Far better. Hardly the utopia so many fear, but far far better.
Yeah thats real fuckin descriptive

>> No.4870985

>How do I free myself from the shackles of capitalism?
>How do I absolve myself of the values of my society?

Two options:
Climb to the top of the heap, such that you dictate the values.
Disengage from said society, you don't have to conform to a society you are not a part of.

Obviously there are options between Lord Protector and Cave Hermit, but that's the gist of how it works.

Ideologically, probably a bit of mental disengagement. Disregard the news and politics and usual ideologies in society and think for yourself.

>> No.4870988

>>4870977
Could you perhaps go into greater detail of the system that would take place of capitalism? Would everyone be subsistence farmers? Would we revert back to small communities and barter?

>> No.4870989

>>4870985
>lines of flight
Fuck off Negri. The fight has was and always will be in the factory and the household. Workers of all kinds, arm yourselves, arm yourselves with guns.

>> No.4870995

>>4870988
>Would we revert back to small communities and barter?
I know how to do this, although its still temporary

>> No.4870999

>>4870995
Ok, so what is your grand idea for society?

>> No.4871000

>>4870949
>>4870950
>>4870951
Your heads are so far up your ass. I don't know how to say it anymore nicely than that.

>>4870952
He eats. He goes home to his family in a nice home. They're clothed, educated, grow up and old. They live.

>>4870962
New shackles: Responsibility. Real freedom. A weight upon the shoulders of course, but such is life.

>> No.4871002

>>4870989
>Workers of all kinds, arm yourselves, arm yourselves with guns.
Is this not a form of disengagement?

>> No.4871011

>>4871000
>He eats. He goes home to his family in a nice home. They're clothed, educated, grow up and old. They live.
Wow that sounds totally different from this capitalist nightmare we're living in. How imaginative.

>> No.4871012

>>4871002
>Is this not a form of disengagement?
Its a reminder of the final mode of struggle with the repressive state apparatus of contemporary capitalism will be armed, even if ideological elements of capitalism remain after the dawning of the first day of the rest of our lives.

The lines of flight argument revolves around the failure of the most recent Italian revolution meaning a failure of all future revolutionary attempts.

>> No.4871021
File: 100 KB, 800x1321, Le Guin - The Dispossessed.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4871021

>>4870984
Seriously. Read this one for a hint.
>>4870988
In the age of computers? Volunteerism.

>> No.4871028

>>4870974

Please, do show me.

We'll see how it compares to wading through layers of wet paper, molding clothes, and discarded needles, trying to clear out tenements only recently evacuated of squatters. Or scrubbing the stench of the half-eaten food you've been scraping and rinsing from plates for hours on end. Or treating the second degree grease burns you've acquired sweating over a griddle.

Don't you dare fucking preach to me about work, you little faggot.

The "value-form" is not unique to capitalism, nor is it anything you can really get away from if you want to live in a society more complex than a band or small village.

>> No.4871038

>>4871011
I thought I'd illustrate it for you since you looked like you were really thinking everybody would be getting hamsters to eat and clothe themselves with. It's okay man. Eve'r thin's gonna be okay.

>> No.4871042

>>4871021
So basically just everyone doing their fair share around the community with no real specialization? I mean, that works on a very small scale. It would basically require everyone to split up into communes.

>> No.4871047
File: 541 KB, 793x1400, 1396369596934.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4871047

>>4870745

Only an idiot would say that the majority of the harm caused in the last century was caused by "capitalist" systems.

>> No.4871059
File: 110 KB, 622x552, 1377721340621.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4871059

>>4870989

So edgy...

>> No.4871060

>>4871042
Or towns and cities. How strange.
>No real specialization
So who are all these people coming out of these universities after a decade of higher education? More teachers, tailors, engineers, doctors... There'd be skilled workers. And they probably wouldn't have to work that hard either.

>>4871047
Is this crude comic supposed to affirm your statement?
Since only an idiot would do that intentionally, I guess this is the joke you were trying to make. clap clap.

>> No.4871068

>>4871028
>Don't you dare fucking preach to me about work, you little faggot.

Yeah I'm sure you got bilateral to both shoulders and have been hospitalised for months by workplace injuries.

>The "value-form" is not unique to capitalism, nor is it anything you can really get away from if you want to live in a society more complex than a band or small village.

Bullshit, it didn't exist in feudalism. I expect better of you than to be falsified at your first counter argument. Toughen the fuck up.

>> No.4871075

>>4871059
Spend a couple of hours on /k/.

>> No.4871077

>>4871068

>Implying there weren't markets in "feudal" anywhere

go read a history book you little punk

>inb4 the question-begging 'it wasn't "value" because society hadn't progressed into "really revolutionary" capitalism'

>> No.4871088

>>4869578
Capitalism is the maximising of exploitation by the powerful on the powerless.

This is certainly a scaling up of ideologies, beliefs, emotions, actions, etc of individuals within the capitalist structure.

Thus, I propose that to free yourself, or more specifically to change your macrocosm from a capitalist one to something else, your own actions and motives must change from exploitation, and what is probably most preferable is to a system of mutual cooperation with shared benefits.

Basically, work together with people, be honest, don't use your position to exploit others in a worse one. Know that we're all in life together, so work together and don't just expect you should get more return because you can happen to put a higher financial figure on what you contributed.

>> No.4871100

>>4871077
>>Implying there weren't markets in "feudal" anywhere
>go read a history book you little punk

No. There weren't clearing markets. China's the clearest example of the continuous expropriation of bourgeois attempts to form markets. Try reading some history yourself. Even in monastery land in Europe, the wage wasn't the primary relationship inside the rural moral economy.

Postan and Powers are normally pretty good starts on European Feudal economics, but given your level you might need to start with Bloch.

>>inb4 the question-begging 'it wasn't "value" because society hadn't progressed into "really revolutionary" capitalism'

Its not fucking question begging, it didn't comprise surplus value, it wasn't produced for sale, it wasn't sold, it was extracted at tally as corvee labour by unfree peasants.

Capitalism isn't an ahistorical category you horrible fucknard.

>> No.4871138

>>4871100

>There weren't clearing markets

Do you even know what that means?

>It wasn't surplus-value

Every product that does not go directly to sustenance and/or the "reproduction of the social form" is a surplus.

>Europe was one big corvee system

This is ridiculous. Corvee was typical of only some regions; it also both moved and evolved over time. The "economic systems" of Europe between the fall of the Roman Empire and the middle of the 18th century were immensely complex, and cannot be brought under some single, otiose concept such as "feudalism."

>> No.4871153

>>4871138
>This is ridiculous. Corvee was typical of only some regions; it also both moved and evolved over time. The "economic systems" of Europe between the fall of the Roman Empire and the middle of the 18th century were immensely complex, and cannot be brought under some single, otiose concept such as "feudalism."
And yet Capital is transhistorical and has always existed.

Surplus value only exists as value. Social surplus in feudalism existed as consumption goods, not as an abstract social category preceding actions. Otherwise why would have display been present in every feudal society as a form of consumption of social surplus, rather than reinvestment.

FFS mate, you're incoherent.

>> No.4871164

>>4871153

My argument is not that "capitalism" is ahistorical. My argument is that "value" is not unique to "capitalism."

I am rejecting Marx's categories. I am under no compulsion to accept them, especially when they so grossly distort the very phenomenon they are meant to describe and clarify.

>> No.4871173

it isn't that many people in this thread disagree with the anticapitalist sentiments expressed in this thread; it's that these people are expressing genuine shock that such concepts exist and are proving absolutely incapable of imagining a schema that exists outside their own navels. Seriously, read a fucking book people.

>> No.4871200

>>4871164
>I am rejecting Marx's categories. I am under no compulsion to accept them, especially when they so grossly distort the very phenomenon they are meant to describe and clarify.

You're free to reject electricity too.

>> No.4871589

>>4871200
Actually, the things marxism tries to explain can be explained in many ways, and is not restricted by observation.

It's no more science than saying Zeus causes lightning.

>> No.4871809
File: 162 KB, 653x487, diogenes beg statue.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4871809

>>4869578
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refusal_of_work

>> No.4871820
File: 1006 KB, 2090x3000, 1399417106565.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4871820

who /swifty/ here

>> No.4871847

>>4869626
>Nick Land
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Land
>He currently "works" at That's Shanghai magazine.

Who's fucking with Nick's wiki?

>> No.4872000

what's a capitalism

I think it's kind of funny that the only place I ever hear people seriously voicing their desire to go without money, the ready exchange of goods and services, and most other ammenities of life is on /lit/ and nobody ever walks the talk. Come on you guys, we need a better big bad

>> No.4872020

>>4869578
Suicide seems to be the only means of effective protest (that is, if you don't mind making your family cry).

I'm not even joking.

>> No.4872034

>>4872000
>and nobody ever walks the talk
Yes, let's approach structural problems individually. Idiot.

>> No.4872163
File: 205 KB, 436x600, Nechayev.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4872163

>>4872020
You're forgetting the other -cides.

>> No.4872417

>>4870999
Mars, muhfucka

>> No.4872419

you already are
just stop pretending that you aren't

>> No.4872420

>>4871021
>he bases his world view on sci fi novels

>> No.4872430

>>4872034
What thr fuck are you waiting for, a hive mind to be developed so everyone will know exactly ehat youre thinking so you can all drink the kool aid at the same time?

>implying your will is that strong anyways

>> No.4872497

>>4872430
Well, the only way would be taking control of the institutions that regulate it.

I don't care one way or the other by the way, you're just an idiot for thinking people's objections to money are a dislike towards personal use of it and that 'walking the talk' implies personally opting out.

>> No.4872505

Do what rich people do. Save don't spend.
The rich are seen to be the greatest proponents of capitalism but they are the least engaged.
Consumerism is a hobby of the aspiring working to middle classes. And they occupy the labour market in greatest numbers in order to fulfill their consumer market ambitions.
Whereas the richer you are, the less likely you are to work or spend.
Those at the bottom of the scale can just about handle it. Although the lifestyle will never actually help them, the government offers them support with employment and housing benefits.
Those at the top of the scale will excel from using the system to their own ends while never contributing their appropriate share.
But those in between are damaged most. bearing the burden of a system seemingly designed for the whole spectrum yet with only them holding it up.

>> No.4872520
File: 74 KB, 479x435, 1276928274939.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4872520

>mfw op projects the ills of the state onto capitalism

>> No.4872526

>>4872505
This is a good idea. I live like a lumpenprole on welfare, but it comes down to the same tactics. Old money people are notoriously frugal.

>> No.4872562

relatively they may have smaller consumption rate.
but in absolute numbers they still consume the shit out of the economy.
and like ezra pound said in abc of economics: in this system it will always be "more efficient" to feed one rich guy instead of 1000 poorfags. So even if we collectively decide to opt out and go unabomber-mode, the industry will just adapt and build more exclusive products for the rich, megayachts for CEOs and skyscrapers in the desert. it will be like mercantilism again.
that trend can already be seen in car industry, where the middle class segment is shrinking compared to its two neighbour segments.

>> No.4872571

>>4872505
>Do what rich people do. Invest, don't spend.

ftfy

>> No.4872582

>How do I free myself from the shackles of capitalism?

they're only shackles when you're not rich. :(

your ideological outlook will change when you're older. whether you want it to or not *cue scary music*

what it will be? i guess we'll see.

>> No.4872607

>>4872497
>people's objections to money are a dislike towards personal use of it
Im not big enough of a douche to call out the hypocrisy of everyone who ever lived

>> No.4872615

>>4870700
Your second option is no liberation, it is in fact embracing capitalism and neo-liberalism.

>> No.4872628

Capitalism was a necessary evil. It will transition us into a more ideological age.

>> No.4872639

>>4872615
The first is no liberation either, it's living of its crumbs.

>> No.4872698

For the namefag calling money evil:

Read some damn Marx and you'll see why money is a tool. The pursuit of money may be (debatably) evil, but what do you propose we do instead, return to a barter system?

>> No.4872718

>>4870751
Be quiet you useless idiot. Cultural factors, such as morality, stem directly from the economic situation. Learn a basic economic theory before smearing your shit in anything you can get your hands on

>> No.4873084

>>4871589
I'm sorry that you're ignorant, deeply deeply sorry. Marxism is restricted by observation, the debate on modes of production in Feudalism, the hydraulic society debate, the debate on latifunda in antiquity. The fact that Marxist ideology is an observational science like geology means that you're having a tizzyfit because you're grossly underread in social science theory. Its just frankly disappointing that you'd reject Marxism on such a feeble basis. Read Kołakowski and come to reject Marxism on a philosophically mature basis.

>> No.4873723

>>4872718

>cultural factors . . . stem directly from the economic situation
>the current year
>believing in hard economic determinism

holy shit, dude, you really fucking chugged the kool-aid, didn't you?

>> No.4873745

>>4873084

that wasn't *me*, but you seemed to have missed the point, regardless--and maybe a few of the critical sections Marx wrote on ideology. you're fucking steeped in it.

Marxism is not an observational science; it's very high theory. Capital may deeply informed by the history of England, but if you try and take the model developed by Marx there and compare it to the actual trajectories found in any other part of the world, it is immediately falsified.

It is hilarious, really, that you accuse others of treating capitalism as a "transhistorcal category" while you yourself continually hypostatize the concepts of a (basically dead) theoretical framework

>> No.4873757

>>4870702
if we're going to make stupidly broad statements, I'd like to argue that money is freedom.

Would you rather work for fear of the whip or promise of the dollar.

>> No.4873768

>>4870751
GO BACK TO /POL/ WITH YOUR ALL-CAPS

>> No.4873781

>>4871021
>I haven't read any theory but here's this pulp novel

>> No.4873786

Why is butterfly even acknowledged at this point?

>> No.4873810

>>4873084
I didn't compare marxism to hard science, the post I was responding to did. You got confused with your responses. It's understandable and I forgive you for being an idiot.

>> No.4873815

>That feel when you didn't no Ulysses Grant was ever president of the US. You select that as the not true of this person option on exam. American history has always bored me.

>> No.4873836

>>4873815
I hope you're not American

>> No.4873842

>>4869578
You don't, dumbass. Unless you also believe in fucking faeries and magic.

>> No.4873856

>>4873836
I am. lol. I learned later he is the dude on our $50 bill. lol Op's pic reminded me of my stupidity. American history is still boring.

>> No.4873877

>>4873856
I find it off-putting and a sign of a weak mind that someone should not be able to muster any interest for a subject as broad as American history.

Either way it's no excuse for that sort of profound ignorance

>> No.4873879

>>4869578
Move with the bushmen of the Kalahari desert. They are a happy bunch.

>> No.4873957

Read these books.

http://www.mediafire.com/view/?6tmc6ld43lxc1gv

http://zgm.se/files/Books/The-Best-That-Money-Cant-Buy.pdf