/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.4864807]

Hey /lit/
Is there any other fantasy series that's similar to The First Law trilogy?

Tolkien bores me and I can't stand the smut and food porn of GRRM.

[Anonymous No.4864884]

The next Abercrombie "trilogy" is even better. They're standalone books but take place in the same universe. Best Served Cold, The Heroes, and Red Country.

Mark Lawrence's Prince of Thieves trilogy is really similar. Also really good.

For something a little less grimdark, The Lies of Locke Lamora and its sequel Red Seas Under Red Skies. Haven't read the third book in the trilogy yet but from what I've read it's more Ocean's 11 than Italian Job like the first book.

[Anonymous No.4864924]

>>4864884

Warning: The protagonist of Red Seas Under Red Skies is a black woman. If you can't handle this, skip it. In fact you might want to skip everything by Scott Lynch. If you don't get butthurt about minorities showing up in fiction like most of /lit/, enjoy a really fun and well written pirate story.

[Anonymous No.4864962]

>>4864884
>Mark Lawrence's Prince of Thieves trilogy
Do you mean prince of thorns?

[Anonymous No.4864967]

>>4864962
I did. Too caught up thinking about Locke Lamora.

[Anonymous No.4865011]

>>4864884
OP said the smut in ASoIAF was too much for him, and you're recommending Prince of Thorns?

[Anonymous No.4865027]

>>4865011
Which Prince of Thorns book has a full page describing what lemon tarts look like?

[Anonymous No.4865034]

>>4864924

>brown pirate girl

[Anonymous No.4865053]

previous post right in suggesting locke lamora. there are a number of ways i could answer your question, since i have many similar titles for you. the following seems a more concise presentation than rambling about each, and are just my opinions, anyway. hope you find some things you like. there are more i can think of but this is probably more than enough for now.

perfect read-
the name of the wind (& sequel)
sabriel (& sequels)
his dark materials
disworld (you can find a double for logen in pratchett's conan)

very good-
theft of swords (& sequels)
tigana (& sequels) - kay
amber
assassin's apprentice (book 1)
a wizard of earthsea (& sequels)
the night angel trilogy
the blue sword
the hero and the crown
the lions of al-rassan
the fionavar tapestry

good-
mistborn (& sequels)
god stalker (book 1)
black prism (& sequels)
assassin's apprentice (book 2)
the belgariad
the mallorean
good omens
chalion series
death gate cycle
pillars of the earth

pretty good-
god stalker (books 2&3)
assassin's apprentice (book 3)
sir apropos of nothing (& sequels)
jonathan strange & mr norrell

never again-
king of thorns (& sequels)
a cavern of black ice (& sequels)
the chronicles of thomas conenant (& sequels)

[Anonymous No.4865059]

>>4865027
>smut and food porn

I took those to mean he has two separate problems with ASOiAF. Prince of Thorns lacks the food porn but keeps the smut.

[Anonymous No.4865077]

>>4864807
>>4864884
Yeah read the standalone books, the first two are even better then the trilogy.
Red Country was pretty shitty though.

The author has been and is writing a couple of short stories and novellas in the First Law universe, but there is no publication date yet for them, because he is too busy writing aweful YA shit for a quick buck.

[Anonymous No.4865103]

R. Scot bakker - the prince of nothing series

Avoid Name of the Wind if you jate harrypotter shit

[Anonymous No.4865434]

>>4864884
>Red Seas Under Red Skies
>mfw Locke doesn't know shit about boats
>mfw "Squiggle-fuck the rightwise cock-swatter with a starboard jib"

[Anonymous No.4865442]

>>4864807

Ignore >>4865103, Rothfuss is great. Not the kind of dark low fantasy you're looking for, but Name of the Wind is better than anything R Scott Baker has written in his life.

[Anonymous No.4865545]

>likes Abercrombie
>calls GRRM smut

[Anonymous No.4865565]

>>4865545
/this
Abercrombie is on par with GURM in terms of smut even more smutty now that I think about it.

[Anonymous No.4865579]

>>4865545
I came to post this.

Just what the fuck are you on about op.

[Anonymous No.4865980]

I came on /lit/ just to see if it was a discussion about the series. I've just started The Last Argument of Kings.

Of course, everyone pops up Martin's works when praising a pseudo-medieval book, but now that I look back to the ASOIAF series, they are utter and pure shit compared to this.

I forgot how it was to thoroughly enjoy a book. The only other book that did it for me was the "Black Company".

It is incredibly well written, the plot seems all so plausible, and aside from very few, very minor mistakes I find no flaw in it. This dude has a fantastic eye for details, such as the commoner watching the execution from the balconies peering out dangerously far to be able to see who entered the room.

Are his other works as good? He's a damned fantastic writer.

[Bryn No.4865980,1]

There's almost no sex in the whole Thorns/Broken Empire trilogy (2 very brief, very non-explicit) scenes in three books IIRC.

[Anonymous No.4867595]

>>4865545
Abercrombie is GURM done right.
The exact same thing, only better written.

[Anonymous No.4867621]

>>4865053
>night angel above mistborn and black prism
Explain this, I'm legitimately curious why you hold this opinion.

Mistborn and Night Angel are both extremely similar, but Mistborn at least has a really interesting plot. I've never seen anyone say they like Night Angel more.

[Anonymous No.4867652]

>>4865442
No, I wish someone like >>4865103 had warned me about Rothfuss. Total crap. Young people want mirrors.

[Anonymous No.4867787]

>>4867652
I don't think OP is asking for YA crap. He just wants good books without smut and food porn. That's Rothfuss. It's okay if you like that kind of shit, but that is'nt what anyone is asking for. Or whatever anyone should be reading, honestly.

[Anonymous No.4867808]

>>4867652
>Young people want mirrors.

You assume that everyone here is as young as you are. You are mistaken.

[Anonymous No.4867817]

>>4867808
He assumed that everyone here had as much reading comprehension as him, that was his mistake.

[Anonymous No.4867896]

>>4865980
Be cautious to not get spoilered, because the end of the book is really what makes the whole trilogy so awesome and different.
You really should not look for discussions on the internet before you have finished the book itself.

That said, what do you think were the "very few, very minor mistakes"?

[Anonymous No.4868037]

>>4865053
> tigana (& sequels) - kay
Tigana and the what?

> a cavern of black ice (& sequels)
> the chronicles of thomas conenant (& sequels)
I can easily see someone hate TC, but I'm curious, what turned you off so hard about Jones's books?

[Anonymous No.4868152]

>>4864884

The thorns taught me the game.
They let me understand what all those grim and serious men who’ve fought the Hundred War have yet to learn. You can only win the game when you understand that it is a game. Let a man play chess, and tell him that every pawn is his friend. Let him think both bishops holy. Let him remember happy days in the shadows of his castles. Let him love his queen. Watch him lose them all.

[Anonymous No.4868161]

>>4864924
>>4865434
Red Seas Under Red Skies is pretty so-so. The Republic of Thieves is just absolute garbage.

[Anonymous No.4868164]

>>4865053
This has to be the absolute worst power ranking of fantasy I have ever had the opportunity to look at. Are you fucking kidding me with that The Name of the Wind at the top? I would just assume you were trolling with that fucking shit if you hadn't put so much time into it.

[Anonymous No.4868173]

>>4865980
>I came on /lit/ just to see if it was a discussion about the series. I've just started The Last Argument of Kings.


It's the best of his books. You are lucky you are reading it.

[Anonymous No.4868189]

>>4865053

Wait, this artwork is from Before They Are Hanged? I'm still on The Blade Itself but now I'm wondering if I've been envisioning the world incorrectly. I'm thinking of the North as a vast frozen forest with a scattering of castles and small european-style villages, with the main city in Midderland being like a Byzantinian city. I didn't read anything fantasy-like about the setting. That picture almost looks futuristic.

[Anonymous No.4868253]

>>4868189
It's the cover of the limited edition. Whether it should accurately reflect the world is another thing entirely...

[Anonymous No.4868402]

I'm currently reading the 10th book of the Wheel of Time series and I just wish it were over. Nothing happens, it's just endless nonsense about people I don't care about. I started to skip Elayne chapters,scan Perrin chapters for mentions of the Prophet and generally skim over Mat.
If he cut all the annoying pointless characters and focused on POVs of people who matter and actually amount to something, I could have finished this two books ago, I'm sure of that.

[Anonymous No.4868518]

>>4868402
The tenth book is the nadir of the series. It starts to climb back up again quite swiftly, and the twelth book is among the best in WoT. Unfortunately, I cannot say the same for the final two, but if you're a fan of Rand, and it seems like you are given your post, then you definitely want to read the twelth book.

[Anonymous No.4868520]

>>4868518
Thanks for the heads up.
I wouldn't say I'm a fan of Rand, but he's one of the most tolerable characters and he does interesting things all the time, unlike all those other schmucks who've spent the last 3000 pages doing nothing.
I'm looking forward to the 11th book.

[Anonymous No.4868633]

>>4867787
>good books without smut and food porn.
>That's Rothfuss
Disagree.

>>4867808
I am nearing 40. I guess that's young, but I assume Rothfuss's readers are much younger.

[Anonymous No.4868739]

You must be fucking kidding.

The name of the wind is a simple" Harry Potter: Slightly Darker Edition " , terribly fucking written - that battle at the end? Come the fuck on! Pulled right out of Rothfuss's ass just so there could be muh epic fight scene.

You cannot seriously say that this bullshit is better than the Prince of Nothing

[Anonymous No.4868798]

Anyone feel like The First Law series would be better if it were like, 4 -5 books?

I mean its good and all, but some things feel really rushed, it feels like you flip a page and 3 months have passed , or something happens to a character, 2 pages later "Now i understand! I'm a changed man!"
> I'm no longer handsome im a totally changed man!

[Anonymous No.4868959]

>>4864924
>female pirate
>well written pirate story

[Anonymous No.4868989]

>>4868959

Oh look. School's out.

[Anonymous No.4868994]

>>4868633
>I am nearing 40.

I apologize. You are not young. You are, merely, pathetic.

[Anonymous No.4869004]

>>4868959
>who is anne bonny
>who is mary read
>who is rachel wall
>who is anne dieu le veut
>who is elizabeth killgrew

[Anonymous No.4869225]

Anything but those shitty Kingkiller books.

Kvothe is a mary sue. And a cunt.

[Anonymous No.4869390]

>>4864807
Should also read three "Standalones".
If you're partial to the kinda gritty stuff without all that orphan of prophecy and dashing brave hero shit I would also recommend:

- The Black Company by Glen Cook (quite popular around here and it is pretty darn good)

- Ties That Bind trilogy by Rob J Hayes (doesn't get mentioned much around here, but despite the horrible covers it gave me a pretty good First Law-like kind of vibe)

[Anonymous No.4869458]

How many of these books are non-military? I'm kind of worn out on fantasy novels about politics and nations warring with eachother and just want more character-focused stuff. Best Served Cold was good in that regard, since the war was more of a backdrop to her personal revenge story.

[Anonymous No.4869506]

>>4869458
I'm honestly shocked they haven't been mentioned yet, but check Fritz Leiber's books about Fafhyrd and the Grey Mouser. Definitely a step above most of the garbage posted in this thread.

[Anonymous No.4869607]

>>4867621
>>4867621
thanks for the ask. night angel, straight through to the last book, kept up the pace and interest for me, while in mistborn, the first book was just as nice a read as night angel, similar to black prism's great start, but both of these two took plot turns i just wasn't terribly comfortable to read about. in night angel, we see the coming of age of the main character, and their journey progresses, helping them to become more self-reliant and as powerful a presence in their own right as those they'd respected and admired in their untried state. while in mistborn and the black prism series, (while i really did love them both,) the main character of black prism (who i was eager to see succeed in spite of his often reiterated shortcomings) recedes to make way for characters abidingly entrenched in careers/positions that have ever been expected to deal with large-scale disputes, (the ‘king in his castle’ figure, known warriors associated with the military, etc.) this made it (while probably much more realistic,) not as much fun to walk through as if the main character had really had stepped out of the shadow of his circumstance and come into his own to a point in which he’s gain the recognition and respect of those who’d had his. in mistborn, it was kinda the same thing, in which the main character was just oozing potential, really grew into something quite wonderful, but then receded more than i felt was comfortable through the increasing focus on her husband, until she almost felt like she was becoming at the king and public’s token oddity to be brought out/unleashed when the going got too tough for conventional humans. she felt to me to peak her potential, at least to a level at which we were able to follow, then to move beyond the story, which just kept trundling along to continue to accommodate her husband and the rest of the folks we’d come to know, which it felt as if she’d already left far behind in her ascension, but which the plot still continued to follow. so basically, just personally, i’d say that in all three series, the main characters begin with nothing but an enormous potential, but it feels only in dark angel was this potential truly realized, the plot and pacing facilitating this by marching in step with their growth, whereas in prism&mist, this potential could have been better tapped (or given a more situationally suited arena to its exploration) for both main prism&mist main characters share their ascent (to a degree which is distracting from their own situation) and this feels as if it stunts their empowerment.
though seriously, i loved all three series very much. i just liked how dark angel dealt with its main a bit better towards the end, that’s all. tried to explain the viewpoint carefully to satisfy your question. thanks again for asking anon, i’ve never had a chance to talk about these books with others, before.

[Anonymous No.4869832]

>>4867621
thanks for the ask. night angel, straight through to the last book, kept up the pace and interest for me, while in mistborn, the first book was just as nice a read as night angel, (similar to black prism's great start,) but both mist&prism took plot turns i just wasn't terribly comfortable to read about.
in night angel, we see the coming of age of the main character, and their journey progresses, helping them to become as self-reliant and powerful a presence in their own right as those they'd respected and admired in their untried state. contrastingly, in mistborn and the black prism series, (while i really did love them both,) the main character of prism (who i was eager to see succeed in spite of his often reiterated shortcomings) recedes to make way for characters abidingly entrenched in careers/positions that have ever been expected to deal with large-scale disputes, (the ‘king in his castle’ figure, known warriors associated with the military, etc.)
this made it (while probably much more realistic,) not as much fun to walk through as it might have been, if the main character had really had stepped out of the shadow of his circumstances and come into his own to a point at which he’d gain the recognition and respect of those who’d initially had his.
similarly, in mistborn, the main character who was just oozing potential really grew into something quite wonderful, however they later receded more than i felt was comfortable. this was accomplished through the books’ increasing focus on her (the main’s) husband, until it almost felt as if she was becoming the king and public’s token oddity to be brought out (or unleashed) when the going got too tough for conventional humans.
she felt to me to reach the peak of her potential, (at least to a level at which we were able to follow,) then to move beyond the story, which just kept trundling along to continue to accommodate her husband and the rest of the folks we’d come to know, who it felt as if she’d already left far behind in her ascension, but who the plot would not abandon, thus holding back its’ progressing fittingly, (fittingly=enlarging the story/frame enough to showcase its main character adequately.)
so basically, just personally, i’d say that in all three series, the main characters begin with nothing but enormous potential, but it feels only in dark angel was this potential truly realized, the plot and pacing facilitating this by marching in step with it’s main character’s growth, whereas in prism&mist, this potential could have been better tapped (or given a more situationally suited arena to its exploration) for both main prism&mist main characters share their ascent (to a degree which is distracting from their own situation) and this feels as if it stunts their empowerment.

[Anonymous No.4869836]

>>4869832
cont.-
though seriously, i loved all three series very much. i just liked how dark angel dealt with its main a bit better towards the end, that’s all. tried to explain the viewpoint carefully to satisfy your question. thanks again for asking anon, i’ve never had a chance to talk about these books with others, before.

[Anonymous No.4870159]

>>4868037
oh, sorry. thanks for the catch. i meant tigana & pretty much all others by kay(the author). i was probably thinking of his fionavar tapestry (a trilogy) when i typed 'sequels.'
with kay, i would recommend this reading order-
the lions of al-rassan (great stand-alone introduction to his work)
the sarantine mosaic (a trilogy, wonderfully vivid world, culture and character building)
under heaven (very immersive, great page-turner)
tigana (not as good as the others, but still good)
i actually wouldn't recommend either the fionavar tapestry or a song for arbonne. pretty dry epic fantasy. it's crazy how this author began with what felt like a repertoire of flat, bleached writing and seemingly gained superpowers and a magic pen fountaining ideas along the way because he's one of the most fantastic world builders i've ever had the pleasure to read. i look forward to any new work from him, because he's been on a roll.

>>I'm curious, what turned you off so hard about Jones's books?
i'm sorry anon, i read these some years ago and so can't give you the best answer, but the clearest way i can think to explain it is probably to set it against (now i know op doesn't like his song of ice and fire series, though admitting i love them) george martin's ice&fire. cavern&sequels felt like a SoIaF in which the POVs are nearly always characters you are less interested in hearing about, (a frailer sansa etc,) plot-driven transitions happen much less frequently so that the pacing begins to lose the reader’s interest, there are fewer characters so we return frequently to reenact the stagnating and unpleasant situation in which the characters sit, and while in GRRM’s ice&fire, the women’s roles shown felt right to the work, in Cavern, the choice of utilizing medieval roles for women doesn’t feel as if it has been pulled off well enough to move past its injecting a vague sense of depression into reader over the concerned text. cavern’s severely subjugated/abased females never seem to realize any sort of inner control or power over their own lives or selves but rather play the frail or incapable damsels in distress (even when one, ash, has the illusion of taking her life into her own hands, this resolution is based on a desperate compulsion to do what she must in regards to a Power that is not only far beyond her ability to grip and make her own, but which is in essence ruling her through closing her options and forcing her, a mere vessel, to meet its destiny.)
but! regardless of the impression these books left with me, i’m sure there were one or two sequences that i liked, and i’m also certain some people would enjoy this series, just as i know some people are really into thomas covenant. so try anything that interests you

[Anonymous No.4870234]

>>4868164
oh, sorry if i gave that impression, anon. it's not a power-ranking. and under each category title, the books are in no particular order. this list has nothing to do with the actual merit of the books, because i wouldn't know where to begin in measuring this, because for one, opinions are so varied. all this list is is what i know- that is, a general mish-mash ordering of the personal enjoyment i experienced, page-by-page, from reading each of these books. (again, not how well written they are, not how well received, just based on a personal pleasure-of-the-moment in the reading of them. i mentioned those i read when i was younger, too, which might have made me more susceptible to enjoying them later, because they were remembered as familiar and well-liked from my childhood, and may be softer sort of stories.)
why i bothered to jot out an opinion list, is because it just seemed as if, if someone were looking to read fantasy, they might not be concerned so much with gaining status through reading respected texts. rather, they might be just looking to read for the joy of it. the opinion is only secondary, in any case, so as to provide something slightly more thank an empty list of titles. the main idea was to give op some similar material to Hanged. Sorry to offend you, anon.

[Anonymous No.4870245]

>>4868164
oh, sorry if i gave that impression, anon. it's not a power-ranking. and under each category title, the books are in no particular order. this list has nothing to do with the actual merit of the books, because i wouldn't know where to begin in measuring this, because for one, opinions are so varied. all this list is is what i know- that is, a general mish-mash ordering of the personal enjoyment i experienced, page-by-page, from reading each of these books. (again, not how well written they are, not how well received, just based on a personal pleasure-of-the-moment in the reading of them. i mentioned those i read when i was younger, too, which might have made me more susceptible to enjoying them later, because they were remembered as familiar and well-liked from my childhood, and may be softer sort of stories.)
why i bothered to jot out an opinion list, is because it just seemed as if, if someone were looking to read fantasy, they might not be concerned so much with gaining status through reading respected texts. rather, they might be just looking to read for the joy of it. the opinion is only secondary, in any case, so as to provide something slightly more than an empty list of titles. the main idea was to give op some similar material to Hanged. Apologies if I offended.

[Anonymous No.4870275]

>>4865053
Holy shit, man.

> good
> belgariad

> pretty good
> jonathan strange & mr norrell

> never again
> thomas covenant

I want to help you, but I don't know how.

[Anonymous No.4870283]

>>4868994
>>4868633
> nearing 40
> pathetic
40 year old here. I got your back, man.

[Anonymous No.4870347]

>>4870275
heh, i hear you. that's actually sort of funny. it's exactly the phrase i thought in the privacy of my own head when i read an anon's post praising the series here, a long time ago. anyone's opinions <who liked thomas covenant> are probably a mirror to mine, mine are a mirror to theirs. but it's really encouraging to know that such a different viewpoint exists, which is precisely as valid and true, as seen through the way the world works to its host. i like your mind.

[Anonymous No.4870353]

>>4870275
>Anon pic

fuck I loved that movie.
you rule

[Anonymous No.4870748]

>>4868798
>enjoys ridiculously long epics with no end that fat ass neckbeard authors milk forever

get
the
fuck
out

[Anonymous No.4871078]

>>4867595
You can't be fucking serious

[Anonymous No.4871112]

>>4867595
You must be out of your mind to believe asoiaf is nothing but the simple adventure that The First Law trilogy is.

>they are utter and pure shit compared to this
I felt the exact opposite - First Law Trilogy was a fairly generic, straightforward, occasionally amusing story with nothing to it other than its relatively uninspired plot and setting. I don't get how someone could have so completely missed what asoiaf offers.

[Anonymous No.4871122]

>>4868633
>>4870283
i am 44

[Anonymous No.4871123]

>>4871112

>they are utter and pure shit compared to this
Quoting >>4865980

[Anonymous No.4871587]

>>4871112

You care more about plot driven stories than character driven stories. That's why you find Asiaf more interesting. I personally find it a boring, lifeless slog. There isn't one character in the series as resonant as any one character in the First Law. Especially not in the followup books, which are almost entirely character driven.

[Anonymous No.4872679]

>Every fantasy novel that takes place in a university setting is Harry Potter.
>I'm 40 and still believe this

[Anonymous No.4874313]

Has anyone here read the Way of Kings? I really liked that

[Anonymous No.4874994]

>>4874313
Words of Radiance was good, but not as good as WoK.

>Kaladin going apeshit on the plains spouting ancient oaths and twirling his spear like a boss.

[Anonymous No.4875486]

>>4874994
>>4874313
They both suffered from the same things: too many angsty flashbacks, cardboard characters excepting the main four, and too many scenes of Kaladin having a crisis re:the nature of honor.

I can appreciate what Sanderson is trying to accomplish with all these angst-scenes, but he's not a good enough writer to make me feel anything other than annoyance that the characters won't just suck it up and move on with the plot already. I still liked it, mind, I just wouldn't say it's very good.

[Anonymous No.4876801]

>>4865077

Fuck that, Red Country is godlike. It isn't as good as the other standalones, but that's kind of like saying Thriller isn't as good as Off The Wall. They're still the best of the genre.

[Anonymous No.4876808]

>>4876801
>best of the genre

I wouldn't go that far.

[Anonymous No.4876818]

>>4876808

I would be shocked if you could even name 5 fantasy westerns better than Red Country.

[Anonymous No.4877053]

>>4871587

ASOIAF is generic fantasy coupled with "BOOM, SHOCK, AM I A GOOD WRITER NOW?"

Every character is very bland except Theon Greyjoy, who he managed to fuck up, the story tries to be as web-weaving as possible because fuck all sense, and the prose is quite simply simple.

[Anonymous No.4877059]

>>4868633

I don't really get the fuss with Rothfuss. His prose is disgusting.

[Anonymous No.4877479]

I've got a question. It sounds stupid, but why was Red Country actually called red country?
Sure, Abercrombie isn't that big on describing environments/characters, so I guess the title should indicate some kind of Australian outback or something, but reading the book I gut more of a grasslands vibe from it, until they reached the mountains. Then it turned into Colorado or whatever.

Was it meant as in soaked-in-blood red?

>>4864884
>The Lies of Locke Lamora and its sequel Red Seas Under Red Skies

Lies was a nice read, but the second one was pretty bad on many fronts. Too much time spent on "we are on the sea for the sake of being on the sea" and "it's my fault - I'm sorry - No, I'm sorry" bullshit. Also, the semi-fascist dictator was far more sympathetic than Locke by the end.

[Anonymous No.4877572]

>>4875486
I think Sanderson should write shorter, more action packed novels that are all about his magic systems and the cahracters using the magic in interesting ways. He can't do all that character related drama stuff that well.

[Anonymous No.4877581]

>>4877059
>The Fuss with Rothfuss

That could be the name of a wacky sit-com.

[Anonymous No.4877701]

>>4877572

Sanderson needs to give his manuscripts to someone who can actually write. He comes up with interesting settings and then fails on every other front. His prose reads like a highschool kid's history report, and (what's worse), half of his characters are just vehicles for him to pontificate to the reader. Sazed in Mistborn is fucking intolerable, like a Mormon missionary just showed up in the middle of my fantasy novel to tell me about how great faith is. That's probably why Vin "frowns" every 2 paragraphs.

[Anonymous No.4877722]

>>4877479
I didn't mind mopey Locke as much because the story wasn't really about him. It's about Zamira being awesome.

[Anonymous No.4878977]

>>4871587
>>4877053
You two are embarrassingly dense. I don't say that simply as a cheap way of insulting you. I mean it because a supposedly simple work of lit has gone right over the top of your heads, and it's pretty confusing how to feel about reading these kinds of comments.

[Anonymous No.4879354]

>>4878977
Cognitive dissonance will do that to you. What's important is that you still found a way to convince yourself that your opinion is correct, and then share it with strangers who couldn't be less interested. Good job, son.

[Anonymous No.4879365]

>>4878977
>i-i-it's just 2deep4u

Speaking of embarrassing.

[Anonymous No.4879410]

>>4879365

hey homo ur fucking profiled
>>>/tv/44393660

[Anonymous No.4879427]

>>4879410

Uh oh. I made the pedos mad.

[Anonymous No.4879442]

The First Law trilogy left kind of a bad taste in my mouth. I mean I wasn't exactly looking for a happy ending but it just seemed like everyone was an irredeemable asshole for the sake of being grim. I didn't dislike the books they were just a little too grim I think.

[Anonymous No.4879449]

>>4864924
/lit/ is butthurt about minorities? Why does everyone has to be a white male again? I mean you'd expect protagonists in sunburned areas to be black, right?

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux)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=VAo/
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

[Anonymous No.4879496]

>>4879442
>everyone was an irredeemable asshole

Just like real life?

[Anonymous No.4879510]

>>4879449
>/lit/ is butthurt about minorities?

Are you seriously asking this question?

[Anonymous No.4879540]

>>4879496
So edgy.

[Anonymous No.4879645]

>>4877722
The thing was that Red Skies was simply badly told. What was important wasn't emphasized and the Republic of Thieves was even worse in this regard. It's clear that Lynch is listening to sycophants who have already bought in heavily to his series and are only considered with MUH STORY CLIFFHANGAS rather than the exceptional quality that made the first installment rise above its rather cliched "beggar boy to thief/assassin extraordinaire" basis

[Anonymous No.4879656]

>>4879442
>wants to play wish fulfillment with all fantasy

go read some sanderson fatty, because the point of Abercrombie's world is, in part, to take traditional fantasy tropes and show them from a different perspective. the wise wizard is actually bad, the bad ass warrior has a high voice and is actually ridiculed by everyone, people who are cowards get made heroes of, and nothing "ends"

[Anonymous No.4879960]

>>4879442
>everyone was an irredeemable asshole for the sake of being grim

I don't think that's true. Most characters still have good parts and bad parts.
Logan was still caring towards his friends, but still had his Bloody-Nine episodes.
Dogman is still the Dogman.
Black Dow black-dowed in the end.
Jezal has the ambition to make life better, but still is vain and a coward and is more of a victim of circumstance his whole life.
Glokta, despite being a ruthless torturer and general cynic, is still caring towards his friend(s), at least after learning they still are his friends. And especially towards Ardee. Also, if I remember correctly, his last words in the trilogy was in the dialog between him and Jezal, where he says something along the lines of "Even if we are but servants of Bayaz, between you and me, maybe we manage to do some good nonetheless", showing that, despite seeing futility in trying to oppose the big power, he's still open for the sentiment to do some good.
Ferro is mindfucked and back to a futile revenge. Probably the most depressing outcome, other than West of course.

In the end, I don't think it wasn't grim for the sake of grim. It was just that there were far greater powers, namely Khalul and Bayaz, at work than the protagonists could do anything about, really. Also, romance doesn't always work out (even though Ardee and GLokta are open for a more or less happy ending).
It's more frustrating than grim and no one really is irredeemable. Except Bayaz, but even he has the positive aspect that if it is not him, it's maneaters who probably will destroy the world as we know it, if they succeeded.

[Anonymous No.4880323]

This is probably my favorite YA fantasy trilogy ever. You should read it OP.

[Anonymous No.4880360]

>>4864924

Pretty sure she's Indian rather than black

[Anonymous No.4880368]

>>4880323
I read these as a teenager and loved them, but I wouldn't really class them as YA

[Anonymous No.4880380]

>>4879442

It was rather poorly tasting, true.
Except for the Inquisitor that is.


IDK, people promised me it would have cynicism in fantasy in fun, intelligent and nearly deconstructive ways, and it was about people who despite being assholes, could get you to respect them with their ability to get shit done in common tropes of fantasy


Instead, the first door stopper doesn't have a plot, at all, and by the third, major events happen, but all that you get is that people who you didn't think were complete assholes, as it turned out, were complete assholes.

Not to mention it takes three books to actually play with a magical setting. Ugh

The sequels, particularly Best Served Cold are godly though

[Anonymous No.4880897]

>>4880360

Scott Lynch describes her as a "black, middle aged mother of two." She is black.

[Anonymous No.4880900]

>>4880360
>>4880897

Unless you were talking about Zoe Saldana rather than Zamira. She's black too though.

[Anonymous No.4880938]

>>4879442
I kind of agree. I mean, I know that one of the central themes is that life rewards the unworthy and punishes the decent, but it still felt... on the nose, perhaps. Did the point need to be rammed home quite so hard? Did West really need to die?

[Anonymous No.4880942]

>>4880360
you thought they were indians. in a book based on caribbean pirates. interesting.

[Anonymous No.4880972]

>>4880938
Why are you such a pussy? Why don't you marry West's corpse?

[Anonymous No.4880986]

>>4865053
>all this shit taste
Holy shit man, I don't even know where to start. Please kill yourself.

[Anonymous No.4880994]

>all this shit-tier fantasy
Try Gene Wolfe, Lord Dunsany, China Mieville, Ursula Guin, Mervyn Peake. etc. if you want the best of the genre

[Anonymous No.4881014]

>>4880994
>China Mieville,

you can't be serious

>Mervyn Peake

He's unreadable unless you're hopped up on Ritalin and stimulants.

>Gene Wolfe

Hit and miss.

[Anonymous No.4881025]

>>4881014
Who's you're idea of top-tier fantasy then?
>Peake
>unreadable
Maybe if you're illiterate

[Anonymous No.4881050]

>>4880994
>no E.R. Eddison

[Anonymous No.4881054]

>>4881025
>Who's you're idea of top-tier fantasy then?

All fiction is Fantasy.
Dickens, Melville, Cervantes, Shakespeare, Chesterton, etc...

>Maybe if you're illiterate

Maybe his long-winded descriptions of stairs, shadows and gestures just put me to sleep?

[Anonymous No.4881057]

>>4881050
I've only read the worm ouroboros which is probably one of my top 5 fantasy novels of all time, but I decided to only list authors where I've read a lot of their works. The Last Unicorn is another really good book that is the only one I've read from the author.

[Anonymous No.4881064]

>>4881054
>All fiction is Fantasy.
Don't be stupid. If somebody is going to ask you for a good fantasy novel what are you going to recommend to them, Great Expectations?

[Anonymous No.4881066]

>>4881014
If you think Mieville is anything other than brilliant, you haven't read him.

[Anonymous No.4881094]

>>4881014
Mieville is the best modern fantasy author, wolfe may be hit and miss but his hits are amongst the greatest in the genre are far outweigh his misses, and peake is far from unreadable.

[Anonymous No.4881144]

>>4880994
>Lord Dunsany
Does not belong on this list.
>Mervyn Peake
Does not belong on this list.

Gene Wolf, China Mieville, and Ursula Guin are correct. As is Abercrombie. If you are going to tell me that Best Served Cold is "shit tier," then you are saying more about your taste in fiction than you are about the quality of his writing.

[Anonymous No.4881469]

>>4881144
>my opinion is correct

[Anonymous No.4881485]

>>4879354
I would have thought the smart thing to do would have been to ask why your post is being ridiculed, not come back with an equally silly comment.

[Anonymous No.4881562]

>>4864807
I've read one chapter of The First Law and I'd say the closest thing I've read since is Glen Cook.

Mind you, I didn't dislike Abercrombie. I was hopping through series to find one to stick with at the time. It's still in my backlog.

[Anonymous No.4881939]

>>4881144
I don't think Abercrombie is shit-tier, he's okay. Best Served Cold was good and The Heroes was probably his best work. The First Law trilogy was generally mediocre with some good parts. However, he's nowhere near the best the genre has to offer. Some of the other books mentioned in this thread, like the Night Angel Trilogy are shit-tier though. Abercrombie is not even as good as GRRM to be honest.

[Anonymous No.4882806]

>>4865442
>Name of the Wind is better than anything R Scott Baker has written in his life.
This is wrong in every conceivable way.

>>4868798
I agree that Jezal's character development could have been handled better, but making the series longer would not be the answer.

>>4876818
What? Name 5 fantasy westerns. I can only think of 4 off the top of my head. It's hardly an accomplishment to be in the top 5.

>>4877479
>Was it meant as in soaked-in-blood red?
Yes. It was just a cool, western-sounding name, so Abercrombie went for it.

>>4879442
That's fine m8, not every book is to everyone's taste.

[Anonymous No.4882809]

>>4881066
>>4881094
I like Mieville, he's an exceptional ideas man, great prose, and always leaves you with something to think about. But he can definitely improve in terms of plot and his character are hit and miss.

[Anonymous No.4882815]

>>4864807
Works I'd consider similar to Abercrombie (but of varying quality):
Lynch's Locke Lamora books (already mentioned here)
The Steel Remains by Richard Morgan
Tome of the Undergates by Sam Sykes
The Adamantine Palace by Stephen Deas
The Grim Company by Luke Scull

My highest recc would be KJ Parker. She's only really similar to Abercrombie in terms of dark humour and unsympathetic characters - there's not as much sex, violence and swearing as in the aforementioned books - but they're enjoyable and quite unique in the fantasy genre.

[Anonymous No.4882917]

>thomas covenant

I can't quite remember this but I do remember dropping it and never looking back. I just have a vague recollection of it being awful.

Ah, now that my brain starts kicking, wasn't the protag a colossal asshole? I think he gets whisked away to some new place and proceeds to be a foul tempered shit.

I don't even know if I read more than one book (I suspect I did), but now I'm fairly sure I couldn't find anything likable about it.

[Anonymous No.4882960]

Not op but I just fi ished a huge bender and dont know where to go. Started with urth then wizard then soldier by wolfe. Then I finished coldfire trilogy. Prince of nothing. Lies of locke. Black company. The first law And malazan. What should I read next. Really like the dark and gritty of most of those books. But I have no clue what else is like that and worth reading. Thanks

Sorry for the typing I'm on my phone.

[Anonymous No.4883195]

>>4881939
Well at the very least, I think we can all agree that Night Angel is shit tier.

[Anonymous No.4883197]

>>4882809
Yes, I do think he is improving in this, but there is definitely room to grow. Often the problem is that his characters (women often) are passive receptors of events rather than actors.

[Anonymous No.4883199]

>>4882960
Of those, which did you like best?

[Anonymous No.4883226]

>>4875486
yeah but come one man, don't tell me you didn't feel it when Kaladin jumped into the arena
'Honour is dead. If this goes poorly, look after my men.'

Or when Cett is looking in on that capital city and someone asks him where all the good people are
'All the good men died in that city.'

I know it didn't take great writing but those lines really just hit it for me

And when Kal finally sorts his shit out defends the king. I know we all saw it coming but still, that was a badass scene

Sanderson does write some really great main characters

[Anonymous No.4883228]

>>4882806
>What? Name 5 fantasy westerns.

The Native Star, Territory, Wanderlust, Peacemaker, and Zeppelin's West. Read more.

[Anonymous No.4883291]

>>4883228
My bad, I apologise. I should have realised you can simply jump onto Google to answer my question (I noticed that one of those is a Dragonlance novel). Either that or you're a rare fan of this very niche sub-genre, but I doubt it. I stand by my point, in spite your passive-aggressive little snipe at the end there. There's simply not that much competition.

I'm going to turn this little debate into something positive and give a fantasy western recommendation, since you've clearly only read Red Country in this genre. Try The Half-Made World by Felix Gilman. Not the best story but well-written, and the concept of the Line and the Gun are pretty cool.

[Anonymous No.4883302]

>>4882960
Look two posts up. Out of those I'd recommend for you The Steel Remains by Morgan or The Engineer Trilogy by KJ Parker.

[Anonymous No.4883384]

>>4883226
If you like Super Saiyan goku type shit. All of his main characters are essentially infallible. They have job interview type flaws. You know, the type where they actually make you sound better.

[Anonymous No.4883436]

>>4865053
Wow a lot of those books coincide with what I have.

I will check some of them that I haven't read out but I will not touch any book written by a Terry.

Check Out Muh List, Missing Is Black Company Chronicles, I have to add a few more.

[Anonymous No.4883538]

>>4883291
For another fantasy western recommendation try Iron Council by China Mieville. Personally I found it to be Mieville's weakest, but it has its fans.

[Anonymous No.4883546]

>>4882809
I kind of agree with what you're saying, but the thing is that his ideas and prose are always on point and when his plot and characters are good as well the book turns out to be amazing. Perdido Street Station and The City and The City are examples of this where Mieville is at his best those are some of my favourite books.

[Anonymous No.4883616]

>>4868037
>I can easily see someone hate TC
Jesus Christ that book was shit

[Anonymous No.4883639]

>>4868189
When you read book 2 You will understand....it was when they got the door to the tower/whatever open

[Anonymous No.4883733]

>>4883195
>Well at the very least, I think we can all agree that Night Angel is shit tier.
>I speak for everyone here

Please get out and take your wine sipping, fedora wearing, pretentious e/lit/ist attitude with you.

I'm glad I read through this thread, because it seems that it's not only "edgy" teens and 20 years olds "trying too hard" but 40 something years old men who are living in the past, and want everything to be pre 19th Century literature.

[Anonymous No.4883740]

>>4883302
>The Steel Remains by Morgan
b-but.... it's filled with gay sex. I really wanted to read that book but it has too much butt fucking for me.

[Anonymous No.4883771]

>>4883302
KJ Parker is the bee's knees. I've read everything by her except some short stories. Luckily that will rectified later this year when that collection will be published.

[Anonymous No.4883869]

>>4864924
>The protagonist of Red Seas Under Red Skies is a black woman.

>Black person is a thief

Ok.
While I understand his need to be believable his character choice is just unbearable.

[Anonymous No.4883873]

>>4865053

>perfect reads : name of wind
>implying tigana is worse than Name of Wind

6/10 troll.

[Anonymous No.4884049]

>>4883199
Urth of the new son was my favorite. Then malazan and black company

[Anonymous No.4884055]

>>4884049
Fucjing swype sun

[Anonymous No.4885877]

>>4883733
Look bro, it is not my fault if you like shitty beggar to baddest assassin on the planet wish fulfillment fantasy garbage. So don't be mad.

>gallantly tips fedora

[Anonymous No.4886511]

Does the plot pick up in Before They Are Hanged? I just finished The Blade Itself and there was, literally, no plot whatsoever. Great characterization, but I felt like I just read a 600 page prologue.

[Anonymous No.4886516]

>>4886511
Yes, more and more plot happens with every book.

[Anonymous No.4887472]

>>4883740
You can easily skip over those bits, they're not very frequent.

>>4883436
Is that the God of War book? First and last video game tie-in novel I ever buy, it was fucking abysmal.

>>4883546
Haven't read The City & The City, but yeah PSS is the best of his works that I've read.

>>4883771
>Luckily that will rectified later this year when that collection will be published.
Didn't know about this... damn, Blue & Gold is in it, I recently bought that!

[Anonymous No.4887672]

I'd say the most similar I've read is Black Company probably. It's gritty but without swearing sex and gore thrown in just to be faux mature. Beginning is a bit harsh and it's weird in some places but was a nice read.

As far as his books go I couldn't get into Red Country, felt like Abercrombie just watched too much Deadwood and tried to do the same thing

[Anonymous No.4890268]

>>4887672
>As far as his books go I couldn't get into Red Country, felt like Abercrombie just watched too much Deadwood and tried to do the same thing
That was my issue too.. it felt like he was forcing a Western into the fantasy world he'd created. If he wanted to do a fantasy western he should have done it in a new setting.

[Anonymous No.4890452]

Does Abercrombie ever reference the fact that he has a berserker vagabond named Logen in his books? Does he ever get claws?

[Anonymous No.4890480]

>>4890452

there's a subtle wolverine reference in the blade itself, towards the beginning.

[Anonymous No.4891219]

>>4890268
>>4890452
>>4890480
all of his books are about homage. doesn't he even dedicate or quote a tarantino movie in one of the books?

one thing that abercrombie is doing is not taking himself too seriously while making great works

[Anonymous No.4891294]

>>4891219
one or two references to other works of fiction does not make a three book series "all about homage."

[Anonymous No.4891313]

>>4864807
>Is there any other fantasy series that's similar to The First Law trilogy?

Drizzt series.
Ambercrombie's prose is really simple though, you might have trouble with Drizzt.

[Anonymous No.4891422]

>>4891313
Anything that ends and doesn't contain >20 books?

[Anonymous No.4891898]

>>4891313
Is this b8?

[Anonymous No.4894244]

>>4891898
It must be.

[Anonymous No.4894256]

Prince of Nothing
Bartimaeus Trilogy

[Anonymous No.4894431]

>>4864807
i remember that the end of the first law trilogy was unsatisfying to say the least... that made me not want to read any of his other books...

[Anonymous No.4894581]

>>4894431
A wise decision. If you didn't like the ending, his other books aren't for you either.

I personally thought it was brilliant.

[Anonymous No.4895422]

>>4880942
plenty of indians in the caribbeans, indentured servitude brought em all up there. the brits wanted to replace their slave labor so they just tricked a bunch of poor indian people to come to guyana, surinam, jamaica, the caribbeans, etc