/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.4802526]

Is the "tortured genius" factor real?

[Anonymous No.4802531]

The life of a genius very rarely has a pleasant third act.

[Anonymous No.4802546]

Females, Is the "tortured genius" factor real?***

[Anonymous No.4802616]

A public circlejerk of bottomless reactionary codependency. That's exactly what's grotesque about Wallace's writing, why his fans are such creeps and cretins. Wallace's oeuvre is a monstrous, desperate, relentless love me like you used to do—where "love" means "obey."
Wallace was a young prodigy turned failed avant-gardist, sort of the literary equivalent of a crusading ex-smoker. His attempts to do Barth, Barthelme et al were the most tone-deaf garbage imaginable. He didn't get it, didn't know how it worked, couldn't follow the code of that tradition—so continuing that tradition is wrong, the wrongest thing anybody else can do. Because Wallace couldn't do it.
Wait—not "wrong." It's Wallace. Writing like he can't write is evil.

[Anonymous No.4802633]

>>4802616
If that was what wallace work was it would be good.
Instead he is a bro that likes to lift, feels guilty that he is not going to church because smokes and drinks too much and is desperate for pussy (while thinking that his dogs are the only one who understand him).

The biggest fraud DFW ever played is convincing everyone that he was something else than a midwesterner who read wittgenstein and derrida with a history of clinical depression.

[Anonymous No.4802638]

>>4802526
Torture factor is that you usually have to endure and deal with others unless you have a lot of money.

[Anonymous No.4802651]

when did the tortured artist become a phenomenon? Romantic period? What would have started it off?

[Anonymous No.4802674]

>>4802546
tortured geniuses are literally the most attractive male. i want david foster wallace to go down on me so long he would have to evolve gills. (rip in peace :'c )

[Anonymous No.4802677]

>>4802633
well he's a good writer nonetheless. but a complete retard in person imo.

it's funny how he does stuff like the "this is water" speech where he says it's our choice what we think of the world and what we choose our role to be and then goes on to kill himself. he shouldve gone full bukowski or full academic instead he does this neither fish nor fowl thing and oh wonder it doesnt work out.

>>4802638
i'm no genius, but i'm fairly smart. IQ 120. i know IQ means fuck all but i'm a fairly brainy, middle class, well educated dude.

now i've worked different jobs - graphic designer, interpreter, social worker, clerk. the people who were easiest to endure were those i worked with as a clerk. it's hard to have your head up your ass when you're this far down the food chain. and once you have some social skills you can usually find common ground...
let's be real, even if our social circles consist of people just as smart as we are we talk some pretty stupid shit most of the time. i just talk with them about getting shitfaced and about video games and think about plots for my next short story inbetween. simple folk make for great characters.

>>4802651
idk, doesn't jesus fit the bill in some way? i've heard hitler described as an artist, too. just any kind of person that happens to stand out, be an artist of sorts and live a shitty life.

[Anonymous No.4802680]

>>4802526
It makes good ad copy, and we live in a capitalist system.
So, yes, it is real.

[Anonymous No.4802685]

>>4802674
please be a gril

>anywhoo
yeah i think they are attractive to those who either identify with or want a man to 'care for' / 'fix'. he's both deeply broken and justifyably interesting

[Anonymous No.4802692]

>>4802651
No it dates back to Aristotle noticing the relationship between melancholia and creativity (I think poetics). And then the theory continued in the renaissance where artistic endeavor was connected to the saturnine diposition (think of durer's melancolia where on the ground there are the tools of arts and study) and was recuperated by romanticism against the enlightenment: because the notion of genius was the mind that went beyond the limits, broke the rules creatively and hence wasn't bound to the universality of human reason.

This is just brief but iit really does have a long story.

[Anonymous No.4802709]

>>4802685
duh, men don't use ":c" emotes

[Anonymous No.4802719]

>>4802677

get on my 144 IQ level

[Anonymous No.4802729]

>>4802719
as i said, i'm not that smart but next to the average supermarket clerk i'm einstein.

my point is, intelligence doesnt have to be a barrier

[Anonymous No.4802736]

>>4802719
You don't have an IQ of 144

[Anonymous No.4802804]

>>4802526

I'd say it can be, in the same way that sometimes you get a jigsaw puzzle that has piece that's totally necessary to the whole of the image but just won't fit. Though some puzzles just aren't meant to be completed, so said the pale king.

>>4802729

It doesn't have to be but when one person looks at a something, like say a piece of art, and sees an entire world of interpretations, background information, associative thoughts, emotion, wonderment, and the most pure sense of admiration and appreciation, and another person sees just a man in a chair, then it becomes one.

>>4802719

>flaunting IQ

You aren't a very accomplished individual are you?

>>4802651

Ask Kanye.

[Anonymous No.4802867]

>>4802736

I so do. Its pretty dreadful even being around 130s.

>>4802804

Nah, not yet. Just wait though.

[Anonymous No.4802882]

>>4802736
http://vocaroo.com/i/s0NjDwTjDtQk

Is this you?

[Anonymous No.4802888]

>>4802882
meant for
>>4802719

[Anonymous No.4802898]

>>4802692

thanks. interesting topic, for sure.

[Anonymous No.4802910]

>>4802677
I dunno, I don't think he is that good of writer. His prose is goofy, flat and devoid of any aesthetic sense.
It's a smart prose, in the sense you say "smart guy" full of tricks and effects.
But it's as elegant as his bandanas.
And that's what I don't forgive wallace: he was a writer who, like many gen x americans, had a distrust for aesthetics. For him aesthetics meant pretension, exclusion, elitism and superficiality in the same way that nerds distrust designer closing and contemporary art: because in their middle-classness they identify that with the forces that have conspired all their lives to make them feel mediocre.

But distrusting aesthetics is a terrible sin for a writer; because literature does not need only intelligence and heart, but most of all it needs sensibility and taste.

[Anonymous No.4802919]

>>4802526
Here's how I always have seen it.
You do not have to be a 'tortured genius' to produce good quality art.
Art just happens to be (whether its lit, music, painting) an outlet that tortured people can use to vent. They usually do not trust anyone personally to hear their pain so they create something with it.

[Anonymous No.4802924]

I had no idea DFW was dead.

[Anonymous No.4802936]

>>4802924
Yeah man.
Got another bad news: Bolano is dead too.

[Anonymous No.4802946]

>>4802936
>Bolano is dead too

This is the far greater tragedy

[Anonymous No.4802950]

>>4802692

Right on. Good analysis. Love to see this on /lit/.

[Anonymous No.4802982]

>>4802888
>http://vocaroo.com/i/s0NjDwTjDtQk

I chuckled.

[Anonymous No.4802990]

>>4802867

Mmhm, and what is it you have hiding up your sleeve? A Pulitzer perhaps? Or maybe just a Livestrong bracelet that you refuse to take off because you're hellbent on standing by your latent decision to buy one after 2005 when everybody else got rid of theirs?

[Anonymous No.4803014]

so many of you are so cynical... I feel like I have to harden my heart before coming here

[Anonymous No.4803185]

>>4802692
Quality post!

I do think that if you're interested in this topic the Romantic period would be the best period to start with. It is the one which most influences the modern cultural landscape.

It's framing of early death and turbulent life as elements of genius are easily picked up on in Shelley's Adonais:Elegy for Keats.

Keats has, I would argue, become the archetype of the modern poet. The melancholia tempered by mania, the unrequited love, the greater appreciation after his death, his constant flirtation with frailty and mortality throughout his consumption-haunted life, his love and appreciation for nature and love in spite of all this...all vital elements of the modern idea of the romantic artist.

[Anonymous No.4803209]

Genius and fool alike have been subjected to the excruciations of my guild. Had you told them at the time that their suffering was not real, they would have assured you it was real enough. However, if you ventured into our necropolis to tell them so now, they would not answer you, for these multitudes of genius and fool rest there all the same, in silence.

[Anonymous No.4803256]

>>4802982
>>4802882
fucking classic

[Anonymous No.4803304]

>>4803209

Get out necromancer.

[Anonymous No.4803310]

>>4802719
if that's true, what do you do with it? if nothing, kill self

[Anonymous No.4803324]

>>4803310
He gets high scores in IQ tests probably.

[Anonymous No.4803444]

>>4803310

See: >>4802804 >>4802867

[Anonymous No.4803450]

>>4803444
see what exactly?

[Anonymous No.4803532]

mfw this whole board sincerely believes they're tortured geniuses

[Anonymous No.4803537]

>>4802677
>well educated dude
>doesn't know when to hyphenate

[Anonymous No.4803538]

>>4802719
>bragging about something caused mostly by genetics
Do you have an accomplishments you can call your own?

[Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ No.4803542]

>>4803532
>Smirking intensifies.

[Anonymous No.4803546]

>>4803537
To be charitable I must say that hyphenation is very language bound and if he is not a native English speaker he is bound to be confused.

On the other hand, capitalization? No need to be so sloppy.

[Anonymous No.4803559]

>>4803532
Not a secret that /lit/ has some of the most arrogant and smug people on 4chan. I think only /lgbt/ has a higher percentage of self-satisfied cunts on it.

[Anonymous No.4803564]

>>4803450

I asked if he was accomplished, and he confirmed he was not. So really you could've just said: kill yourself.

[Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ No.4803577]

>>4803559
This is a hallmark of anonymity and it runs through most if not all boards. If you see a little variety with some self deprecating types, their next posts will probably be their Mr Bigshot pose.

[Anonymous No.4803586]

>>4803577
>reads 1 book a month
>posts on /lit/ for hours on end

[Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ No.4803599]

>>4803586
>Disapproves of strangers reading habits and tastes.
>Feels his anonymous person threatened.
>Puts on bully face...

'S'okay mang. Going to go eat now. Enjoy your DFW thread.

[Anonymous No.4803607]

>>4803304
>necromancer

[Anonymous No.4803611]

>>4803599
I just think that someone who posts on a board that is ostensibly about literature should be more than superficially literate.

I mean the most I've ever seen you contribute to an actual discussion is some vague pontificating about Epicurus.

I guess when you don't get attention from men you need some sort of substitute, however paltry. Yet you still haven't developed much of a personality.

[Anonymous No.4803621]

I always wondered: is butterfly a qt3.14?

[Anonymous No.4803622]

>>4803577
And you can tell who's who because you're a janitor... Janitors are privy to ips, right?

[Anonymous No.4803626]

>>4803621
She's got a nice butt and legs but she has a pretty average face

[Anonymous No.4803627]

>>4803621
There's a picture floating around of her exposing her midriff—not exactly something to write home about. (Hence the incessant posting.)

[Anonymous No.4803633]

>>4803627
>tfw haven't seen the pic

[Anonymous No.4803635]

>>4803622
If she admits it I think that's grounds for banning

[Anonymous No.4803637]

>>4803633
I know that feel bro.

Let's see the pics.

[Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ No.4803876]

>>4803611
How many books am I supposed to have read before it's okay to post here? I've read hundreds. I don't even know if you're "literate". Yes, they let all sorts onto these boards. I accept it. Why can't you?

I have more interests than just Epicurus, but I do post in those threads to bring out more conversation. I'm going to read some Lucretius fairly soon, maybe I'll have something more to talk about for you then.

I'm not seeking attention from men, here or offline. And I think the personality is what you dislike most. I hold back much, believe it or not. But I'm sure you don't care.

>>4803626
You're guessing.

[Anonymous No.4803904]

>>4803876
Nah, I've seen the archive pics. You have quite a shapely lower half. 8/10 would scope again. Also I know you live in SoCal. I'm just north of you.dotdot
>implications intensify

[Anonymous No.4803955]

>>4802526
DFW confirmed for mouthbreather.

[Anonymous No.4803963]

please, god, somebody just post photos

[Anonymous No.4804014]

>>4803963
Shut the fuck up

[Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ No.4804555]

>>4803904
I don't remember leg pics.
Link if not repost. For this poor soul too >>4803963


Sage

[Anonymous No.4804717]

>>4802719
>>4802677
>being this conceited

[Anonymous No.4804858]

>>4802719
Mine is 93 but a high IQ isn't the main factor that determines academic success and intelligence so there's no need to bring it up unless you have a mental disability.

[Anonymous No.4804883]

>>4802633
>The biggest fraud DFW ever played is convincing everyone that he was something else than a midwesterner who read wittgenstein and derrida with a history of clinical depression.

this is the most apt description of DFW I've ever read on here

[Anonymous No.4804912]

>>4804883
I genuinely do like DFW but this is spot-on

[Anonymous No.4804924]

>>4802882
I was there for this thread, I haven't laughed as hard since.

[Anonymous No.4804975]

fact: dfw admitted to Stacey Schmeidel in their interview in 1999 that his IQ was estimated at 101, the average of the two scores he had received on the Wechsler Adult Intelligence Scale the two times he had sat for it

the individual scores were self-reported as 107 and (a startlingly low) 95

[Anonymous No.4804984]

>>4804975
gonna need a source on that one, buddy

[Anonymous No.4805012]

>>4804975
>fact: dfw admitted that he is of average IQ

[Anonymous No.4805767]

>>4803304
>Journeyman Torturer
ftfy

[Anonymous No.4805788]

>>4804975
That just makes me appreciate him even more as an average Joe.

[Anonymous No.4805988]

>>4804555
i am the next DFW, post genital pics so I can decide whether I'll go down on you when you come to a book signing

[Anonymous No.4806014]

dfw serious conversation is too stale to be engaging

dfw post-post ironic shitposting is the norm

[Anonymous No.4806047]

>>4805788
>"Hehe the plan woyked! Keep buying my books ya dumb shmucks"

[Anonymous No.4806051]

>>4802633

thats so wrong, he tried so hard to encourage people to better themselves and work hard and actually insisted that he was mostly average

[Anonymous No.4806056]

>>4804975
makes me feel better about my 117

[Anonymous No.4806342]

>>4806056
Makes me feel worse about my 133, then again with my bisexuality and life-long experiences with mental illness if I ever become a functioning adult I could fit into the suffering artist mold pretty easily.

[Anonymous No.4806395]

>>4806051
First of all his idea of better is being a decent middle class person and he would savagely shoot down anyone who actually tries to be better than his idol the golden mediocrity.

If you tried hard to be a soccer mom with a mini van it was all good. If you tried to be, for example, a genius (like wittgenstein did) then you are a selfish narcissist who is over-indulging in himself.
I mean look like at his essay on Porn: most of those people are common joes trying to do their jobs and have fun while DFW constantly pokes the reader in the ribs whispering "gee aren't these people pathetic?"

And also his claiming to be an average guy was all a plot. He considered himself as much an average guy as any politician with a multi-million dollar campaign considers himself an average guy. He knew that in populist middle-america that's how you get to be liked and that's how he got to be liked by thousands of insecure millennials. The reality is that than he was the one trying to intellectually shame his editors by writing them "I have a list of a 129 and more reasons why the comma should be there".
The reality is that like every middle-american his claim that he is just averages is just a denial of the claim that there could be someone better than him.

[Anonymous No.4806432]

>>4806395
DFW is confirmed for having made up large swaths of his reporting. He gave people dialogue, fabricated occurrences, so if he was poking fun, which I don't think he was, it was at a version of the people that wasn't entirely accurate.

[Anonymous No.4806444]

>>4806432
The problem is not that he makes fun. The problem is that he insists on moralizing on pornstars as someone's mom. The fact that they were pornstars offended his suburban sensibility. And he goes on and on trying to make his "how scandalous" sound young hip and gen x, when in fact he is just a run of the mill puritan.

[Anonymous No.4806464]

>>4806444
It's been a while since I read that essay, but I don't remember it giving that effect. Can you post examples?

[Anonymous No.4806586]

>>4804975
>>4804984


This is the interview

https://www.amherst.edu/aboutamherst/magazine/extra/node/66410

please note that IQ is not mentioned

[Anonymous No.4806628]

>>4802719

156. Get on mine or shut up next time.

[Anonymous No.4806636]

>>4806444
I honestly think you misunderstood that essay because he definitely wasn't trying to shame anybody who has sex and watches pornography (he actually included many details about his own experiences viewing porn). The point of that essay was simply to compare and contrast the ridiculous, homogenized, and emotionless version of sex that is being sold to and consumed by Americans with the real thing, and noting what happens when people start liking the "false" one better.

I don't like DFW's fiction writing very much, but his porn essay is one of the best things he ever wrote.

[Anonymous No.4806641]

>>4806628
163 here

You were saying?

[Anonymous No.4806653]

>>4802719
>>4806628
>>4806641
ITT: autists

[Anonymous No.4806771]

>>4806636
I think you are misunderstanding me.

I don't have a problem with him shaming people. I'm not a moralist, I'm not against cruelty, in fact I find cruelty entertaining.

So my problem is not with DFW cruelty but with his middle-classness. I don't have a problem with DFW the narcissist I have a problem with DFW the bourgeois. My problem is not with him hurting others (which he often did and it amused me) but with him being sentimental.

What it bothers me is that he is kitsch and moralistic. He never stops one moment doubting that sex without emotion can actually be more enjoyable and fulfilling. Or that maybe there are other relationship that go beyond the idealization of sex with emotion.

He has the experience, or the metaphysical imagination, to understand that sex and emotion might not be compatible in principle (hence his obsessive questioning of meaning). But he doesn't have the aesthetic imagination to understand a life lived in what he considered evil because of his middle-class upbringing.

[Anonymous No.4806802]

>>4806653
I'm 184, that's taller than all of them

[Anonymous No.4806812]

>>4806802
190 here bud, keep walking you filthy serf

[Anonymous No.4806818]

>>4802719
>>4802677
>>4802867
>>4806056
>>4806342
>>4806628
>>4806641

[Anonymous No.4807123]

>>4806771
>I find cruelty entertaining

*waggles fedora*

[Anonymous No.4807168]

>>4806771

>your life when

This post of yours is like one big cry for help.

[Anonymous No.4807665]

>>4807168
>>4807123

Nah I'm just european.

[Anonymous No.4808375]

>>4802616

glad to see a /lit/ folk who knows barth and barthelme