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/lit/ - Literature

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4789662 No.4789662 [Reply] [Original]

>"this book is terrible! none of the characters are likable!"

>> No.4789663
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4789663

>"I didn't like this book because it made me sad."

>> No.4789664

>>4789663
There's a difference between liking and appreciating a book.

>> No.4789674

>>4789662
Personally, I think it's much harder to write a good book without likable characters, especially if the author believes some of his characters to be likable and presents them as such and their actions as good or desirable.

>> No.4789685
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4789685

>reading for the 'plot'

>> No.4789692

>"Yeah, it just seems like the author's in love with himself, like he keeps describing things and using complicated words too much."
>mfw this was said about The Great Gatsby
>mfw I have no face

>> No.4789704

>there was rape in this book so the author is a terrible person

I can't even count the amount of times I've heard this shit.

>> No.4789714
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4789714

>"my favorite books are 1984, Slaughterhouse 5"

>"Catcher in The Rye sucks! It's so whiny!

>"The Great Gatsby is BORING."

>> No.4789718

>>4789714

>"my favorite books are 1984, Slaughterhouse 5"

There is nothing wrong with those books. Stop being a moron.

>> No.4789720
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4789720

>I didn't like Catcher in The Rye because Holden never stops complaining and other people have it worse

>> No.4789721

>>4789718
Repeated idioms. Simplistic prose. Shallow satire.

They're YA disguised as "grown-up novels".

>> No.4789723
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4789723

>"Why do you read books by Dead White Guys so much?"

>> No.4789725
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4789725

>Louis CK sucks hurr im fat hurr white people suck
>12 years a slave sucks hurr white guilt

>> No.4789748

>>4789723
This is probably the worst.

>> No.4789755

>this book is good because the prose is good

>> No.4789765

>>4789725
i can't make heads or tails of this post

>> No.4789791
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4789791

>i cant get rid of the feel that this was written by a man. the style is so male. there's an aversion building up inside me.

>> No.4789799

>>4789714
So what is 'good' about Catcher in the Rye then?

>> No.4789803

>>4789799
When Holden rapes Phoebe

>> No.4789814

>>4789791
ughh that woman is hideous

>> No.4789839

>>4789714
>"The Great Gatsby is BORING."
Very boring to be precise.

>>4789662
Is a legit point too, why would you what to read 400+ pages where not a single person is likeable?

>> No.4789843

>>4789839
>"The Great Gatsby is BORING."
>Very boring to be precise.

This. Fitzgerald wouldn't know entertainment if it hit him in the face, much like how his symbolism hits the reader in the face.

>> No.4789866
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4789866

>>4789839
>why would you what to read 400+ pages where not a single person is likeable?

>> No.4789922

>>4789765
He's mocking the plebs who say shit like that, dummy.

>> No.4790025

>>4789922
12 years a slave sucks though

>> No.4790029

>>4789674
>>4789839
It depends on what's being equivocated to "unlikeable." If unlikeable means boring, or vapid characters then it's reasonable to say who wants to read a book like that. If unlikeable is being referred to immoral characters then that's just stupid.

>> No.4790057

>>4790029
>If unlikeable means boring, or vapid characters then it's reasonable to say who wants to read a book like that.
What if it's intentional? Less than Zero or American Psycho?

>> No.4790074

>>4790057
Depends on if it's going for the grand scheme of things. It has to have some interesting dialogue to keep the readers attention.

>> No.4790080

>>4789725
12 Years a Slave was pretty bad though

>> No.4790087
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4790087

>I like this book because it's easy for me to picture it as a movie in my head

>> No.4790101

>>4789714
>Slaughterhouse 5

That shit was awful.

>> No.4790110
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4790110

>>4790087
>"Sure, he was my shig. But I think to him they were all my shigs. And I guess they were, I guess they were."

>> No.4790120

hi time to end this thread

if they're unlikable because they're like shinji in NGE you are retarded for not liking the whole thing

if they're unlikable because they don't act like human beings like characters in john green novels then you are justified in disliking it

>> No.4790125

>>4790120
but shinji didn't act like a human being at all, he was literally the biggest mary sue in history.

>> No.4790134

>>4790120
There are times when an intentionally unlikable character fails to do it's job and instead makes you hate the book. Usually it's the case of a poor attempt at a well-rounded antagonist. The author doesn't want you to relate, so nothing that happens to them is tragic yet never gives you the joy of their fall.

Worse is morally grey douchebags bleeding on the floor from all those edges.

>> No.4790160

I agree OP.

I like how taking from a fundamentalist narrative point of view, Joyce's Ulysses and James' The Golden Bowl are inversions of each other. Maggie Verver in TGB "wins" the conflict by separating her husband from her former bff and her husband's former lover, but in reality she loses because she also is separated from her father (dat incest subtext). In Ulysses, Bloom is cuckolded, so he "loses" one of the conflicts of the book (marital fidelity) but Molly stays with him and the sheer interest of his interior life makes everyone else around him pale in comparison.

>> No.4790166
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4790166

>friends and I have a weekly lit circle
>friend complains that he never learned to like the protagonist and that everyone around her is much more interesting and deserving of being the main character
>point out that the entire story is spent with her being wishy-washy as fuck and not knowing what to do with her life
>she nearly kills herself because the world won't let her keep working a 9-5 job
>y-yeah but I didn't like her
What the fuck, /lit/

>> No.4790188

>>4790029
Immoral or bad would be just that, not simply "unlikeable". A completely moral and "good" character can be unlikeable too. So boring fits better I suppose.

Take something like Humbert Humbert, who is a nasty guy but still interesting enough.

>> No.4790194

>>4790120
But Shinji is closer to the boring unlikeable, even if you justify his faggotory as realistic, it's simply not interesting to know what will happen to him next, at least for me.

>> No.4790217

>>4790188
Why do people find Humbert so interesting?

we get it Humbert, you love lolita

>> No.4790422

>"I didn't like Moby Dick. The guy just talks about whales and ship stuff, and Moby Dick only shows up at the very end."

>> No.4790455

>>4790120
jesus christ your post reeks of fucking tumblr pseudo intelligence

hi please go and leave and learn to not have a shit personality THANKS~

>> No.4790500

>>4790120
>Shinji, get in the robot or the world goes kaput.
>Hurr, I don't want to.
>I want a dad .
>Why no one likes me.
>I don't know what I need to do.
>I feel so conflicted.
>People died because of me.
>I still won't pilot the thing.
Even if the overall series are decent enough to watch, NGE would be so much better if the history revolved around anyone else but shinji and his retarded problems.

>> No.4790539

>>4790120
how are john green novels bad though?
I've been meaning to read that fault in our stars book

>> No.4790613

>>4790422

This. Moby-Dick boiled down into a simple narrative story could have been 200 pages. The narrative isn't what makes the novel special.

>> No.4790640

>>4789692
yes, there is no need to use overcomplicated words unless the book is aimed for intelligent, higher class philologists, but most of the books are actually aimed for general public

>> No.4790656

>>4790640

There are no complicated words in The Great Gatsby. An 8th grader could read that shit and pretty much get it on 1 read through.

>> No.4790664

>>4789692

This criticism in this quote comes from someone who doesn't like to read. This writing characteristic is omnipresent.

It'd be like saying Tarantino, Kubrick, Scorsese or whoever loves themselves, so the audience isn't allowed to enjoy their films.

>> No.4790669

>>4790656

This. People who think Gatsby is complicated are just people in middle/high school who would rather play video games or party than read.

>> No.4790704

>>4789843
>>4789839
no it isn't

>> No.4790726

>>4789803
Goddammit. WHY DO PEOPLE KEEP SAYING THIS?

>> No.4790969

>>4790613
All the people whining about Moby Dick being 'long' just didn't get what was the book about.
I don't really read that much but goddamnit I fucking enjoyed every chapter. As you say, it's a 'special' novel.

>> No.4791002

>>4790726
have you even read the book?

>> No.4791577

>>4790120
Nah, bro. My problem with NGE was how shitty everyone was at its job.
Gendou was the only one close to being competent and even then he was an autist that never bothered to predict what effect his methods would have on his own plan.

>> No.4791653

>>4790455
name calling is never convincing

>> No.4791814

I was writing something and then someone told me the protag was a douchebag. I had never realized but after reading it again with that in mind I realized he was too. For me I never really cared if he was likeable, he seemed dethatched to me but yes a douchebag very much. Parts of the book explain his pov on his douchey actions and I guess makes him douchier bc they kinda make it seem like I'm begging for his sympathy, which just tripples the douche factor. Idk if I should scrap it all or just add acknowledgements of doucheyness. Fyi it never ends well for the protag in the end anyways. I guess its just a douchebag who didn't realize he was a douchebag so keeps being a douchebag and finally realizes he's a douche but its too late by then. Sorry rambling, am on drugs.

>> No.4791819
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4791819

>denouncing the importance of plot and character likability

>> No.4791832

>Nicholas Sparks is my favorite author!

>> No.4791922
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4791922

>Book is from the perspective of a bad guy/shows a bad guy doing something bad but with a good justification

>THE AUTHOR CONDONES said bad things.

>> No.4791940

>>4789718
Lel pleb

>> No.4791971

>>4791922

So, Lolita?

>> No.4791983

>>4791971
Basically. I fucking love that book, though. I'm glad my friends are fine with it, because I'm sure there are people who actually think Nabokov was a pedophile simply because HH was.

>> No.4792306

>>4789720
>mfw a librarian in high school told me Catcher was filth and didn't belong there.

>> No.4792311

>>4789662
It's like I'm really on /mu/