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/lit/ - Literature

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4765162 No.4765162[DELETED]  [Reply] [Original]

Where in the Bible does the modern interpretation of Satan come from?

Sans Lucifer, of course.

>> No.4765176

It doesn't, really.
It stems from Paradise Lost.

>> No.4765186

>>4765176
Does at least the Catholic Church recognize this?

>> No.4765193

>>4765186
I'm not sure. I would venture to guess "no", though.

>> No.4765209

>>4765176
moreso Inferno no?

>> No.4765761

actually the modern interpretation of the devil comes many different places

from greek mythology to Zoroastrianism

but the Bible doesn't really describe the devil in depth

>> No.4765766

Everyone needs an enemy to feel superior, too.

Plebs just abstractly externalize it.

>> No.4765814

It doesn't. The "Devil" as he's known in our culture isn't in the Bible at all. Lucifer is thinly veiled reference to the king of Babylon. Beelzebub is a mockery of the Canaanite god Baal. Satan is an angel whose job it is to tempt people.The closest you're going to get to a modern view of an evil Satan/Devil in the Bible is the part when Jesus is tempted by Satan in the desert.

The idea started developing in Second Temple folklore and apocryphal writings, early Christians basically invented the idea, and Medieval Christians finalized the image into roughly what we identify with today.

>> No.4765821

My boss and an IT guy were having a conversation near my desk. They mentioned that they think the Devil has manifested as a person and is currently here on Earth.

Another person, a former acquaintance, said that I am the Devil.

>> No.4765843

>christ on the desert attempted by lucifer
>salomão devils banishment
And much more less important.

>> No.4765861

It depends. Sex, drugs, violence Satan, horned goat man Satan or dragon/snake Satan? Or do you mean the Devil?

>> No.4765868
File: 103 KB, 500x500, tumblr_mgyqd9qjel1r5hedjo1_500.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4765868

>>4765162
Ohh child,
Let me tell you a few things.

Satan is not the same as Lucifer nor the dEvil
While dEvil is counter to the GoOD
Lucifer is the prideful heavenly force that is bound to earth(LORD OF THE ABRAHAMIC 3)
{But the jews it gets a little complicated if you think about numerology and deeper meanings as well as the known system of initiation of the faith including the Kabbala}
While Satan is Sophia the first born but to me represents {See Twains moral sense} the ability to know both good and evil, God and the Devil, symbolically represented when the Snake,Satan,Sophia gives the Eve the apple of knowledge{see genesis 3:22}.

Was the act of Sophia{being wisdom} really evil if you believe in determinism and a divine plan wasn't that simply a part of the same plan that Judas took the least favored role in{see the Gospels of Judas found in 2006}. How could man even sin before we had the knowledge of good and evil? Just another step up Jacob's ladder to less friendly climates walking into a storm before true transcendence.
This train of thought would see the sacrifice of Abraham when he almost killed his son the second test, which we failed to exercise that free will YHVH was so proud then which we failed and were cursed with the burden of Lucifer as our earthly prideful "true god" living in the temple{see goethe snake and the beautiful lily 4th king}

and know you know all mans true name is Satan
DO AS THOU WILT IS THE WHOLE OF THE LAW
LOVE IS THE LAW
LOVE UNDER WILL


FATREDPILL

>> No.4765870

Objective truth is Satanic.

>> No.4765880

Classical mythology (Prometheus and Epithemeus):

>Man was to be incapable, the lowest of the natural order
>So Prometheus steals fire from the Gods and the wisdom of Zeus's children
>Thus, imbued with knowledge, we rise to the top of the natural world
>Zeus (Jupiter) punishes us with the daimones, but in our wisdom and the forethought of Prometheus, we find hope in progress

Christian mythology (Genesis, ch. 2-3):

>We're in a perfect, lovely paradise
>Pain enters "through a ghastly breach" as the "subtil snake" tricks Eve (see parallels with Pandora) into being "as Gods" and knowing Good and Evil (which God calls "death")
>Our fall comes with our knowledge
>Morality circumscribes epistemology

The devil is a necessary tool (from the perspective of theodicy) for introducing the subjugating mythology of the Bible. In classic mythology, knowledge saves us all. In Christian mythology, it's the devil's thing.

>> No.4765904

>>4765868
Wow, you're like the crazy guy mumbling on the street of /lit/!
Being from Berkeley, I now feel right at home.

>> No.4765914

>>4765904
Whenever I hear/read "clever" wordplay I always picture Gary Busey.

>> No.4765919

>>4765904
hahaha
if you think the truth is simply you are a fool

>> No.4765923

>>4765919
complicated truths lead to insanity--you're no better off, you just think you are

>> No.4765930
File: 11 KB, 320x272, Bale_oooh.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4765930

>>4765821
>I am the devil and so are you

ebin

>> No.4765937

>>4765919
If I think the truth is simply WHAT?

>> No.4765944

>>4765937
Is simply
'is' is a verb
'simply' is an adverb

simply describes the way the truth ises

>> No.4765952

>>4765944
The run-on sentence. Try adding "then" between simply and you and try not to be butthurt against a teacher.

>> No.4765959

>>4765952
do you even hegel
the truth can only is simply
it must fold into itself in its becoming the object of its statement

>> No.4765965

>>4765162
Paradise Lost

>> No.4765968

>>4765814
And what does the "dragon, beast, envoy of the best" in the Apocalypse stand for (I heard, for instance, that the "number of the beast" was a code for Nero, but not sure) ? Looks to me like most modern references to the Devil take something from there.

>> No.4765971

>>4765959
Honey, it's just grammar. The butthurt was to be expected, however.

>> No.4765980

>>4765971
im not even the guy who posted that comment
im just taking offence at your constraints on the word is
also i havent actually read hegel

>> No.4765987

>>4765980
I didn't comment on the word is, I just suggested better sentence structure. There's more than two people in this thread.

>> No.4765993
File: 18 KB, 195x259, images-7.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4765993

>>4765923
lol
>complicated truths lead to insanity

complicated truths are simply truths that seem complicated to an antiquate mind

A good rule to preserve "sanity" in the eyes of others is to only answer questions to the degree people are able to understand.
Bringing into question "sanity" as a whole, is it a social construct of normality or more a personal obligation or dilemma posed by objective forces?

ask the right questions you will realize society is insane the crazy are lost and the sane are either sleeping a part of the insane masses, lost in fright or non participants in semantic baboonery.

>> No.4765995

the book of milton and the gospel of dante

>> No.4766001

>>4765987
>. There's more than two people in this thread.
but can you prove it

>> No.4766008

>>4765993
So now simplicity isn't a factor.

Gotcha.

>> No.4766013

>>4766001
Yes, because your sense of humor is worse than a couple of other posts.

>> No.4766033

>>4765993
L'Humanité bavarde, ivre de son génie,
Et folle maintenant comme elle était jadis,
Criant à Dieu dans sa furibonde agonie:
"Ô mon semblable, ô mon maître, je te maudis !"

Et les moins sots, hardis amants de la Démence
Fuyant le grand troupeau parqué par le Destin
Et se réfugiant dans l'opium immense
Tel est du globe entier l'éternel bulletin !

>> No.4766035

>>4766013
>your posts
>having something humorous about them

>> No.4766039

>>4766035
I didn't reference my posts. You're over-reaching which is telling to us all.

>> No.4766044

>>4766039
>over-reaching
vot
im just trying to interact with you, its proving difficult

>> No.4766048

>>4766044
At least you tried.

*pats head*

>> No.4766075

>>4766073
Is that a trippy mushroom?

>> No.4766073
File: 33 KB, 768x600, Amanita_muscaria_Pa112042.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4766073

>>4766033
Let the few be many and the wise be common

>> No.4766079

>>4766048
m8 im likely taller than you

>> No.4766081

>>4765944
A better way of phrasing would be "The truth simply is".
That there is a statement I can get behind. So I guess I'm not a fool.

>> No.4766088

>>4766073
Slow is smooth and smooth is fast.

>> No.4766154
File: 8 KB, 180x248, h.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4766154

>>4766088
The nonbeing is soft
The soft is hard
The hard is non existent

>> No.4766241
File: 137 KB, 547x574, Jozef Filsudski.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4766241

>>4765162
Pardon my deviation from the topic, OP, but I'm keen to know more about the image you posted. Is it a Matejko? A pageant of Henryk Walezy, perhaps?

>> No.4766265

>>4765821
I've been told I have the eyes of the devil, been both cursed an worshiped by various witches, and once had a falling dream where instead of waking up I took my rightful throne.

>dat stone seat was fit my ass like a glove

>> No.4766299

>>4765880
This is one interpretation, but I think it is first and foremost concerned with painting a stark divide between pagan and Christian theology, rather than paying either of them due seriousness.

For instance, a very old interpretation of Genesis from Saint Gregory of Nazianzus in the 4th century:
>The tree was, according to my view, Contemplation, upon which it is only safe for those who have reached maturity of habit to enter. (Homily on the Theophany, XII)

>> No.4766499

>>4765968
Nero. And the general idea of an oppressive, discriminatory government. There's also a lot in the symbolism that ties into differing religious opinions as well. Apocalyptic literature was never taken to be literalyl (or even inherently doctrinal) in the ancient world; it was all symbolism and criticism directed at an outside threat.

>> No.4766711

>>4765176
If by 'modern interpretation' he means as 'Classical Epic Hero in the wrong poem' then yes, Paradise Lost. But Milton was drawing from sources. There had been debates for 100s of years at various councils as to the official doctrine of the church. I imagine that the basic skeleton of most modern interpretations have come about from those councils.

>> No.4766827

>>4766241
It is indeed a Matejko. Brilliant painting but it's the only one I've seen from this artist. Good eye.

>> No.4766855

>>4765162
Do you mean The Devil or Satan?
Satan is mentioned most in the book of Job.
But in the book of Job, God is referred to as Shaddai (usually glossed as "The Almighty").
This indicates that the book of Job is from some other religion that had an Odin-like figure named Shaddai and a Loki-like figure named Satan ("The Adversary"). It just got grafted onto Judaism at some point, with minimal changes to make it not obviously polytheistic.

>> No.4767039

>>4765761
Greek, Italic, Celtic, Mesopotamia, Egyptian, Persian and Phoenician paganism, Archaic Pagan Judaism, Zoroastrianism, Mithraism, Monotheistic Judaism and Astronomical interpretation, to expand on your point :P