/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.4758124]

hey /lit/, ignorant pleb here

What should I read to get a sense of all the schools of thought and "-ism"s (capitalism, marxism, egoism, fascism??) that are knocking about the world today? The variety of all these ideologies has scared and confused me, to be quite frank, and with the tendency for one to accuse the other of being a devious oppressor it's a bit difficult to know where to start

How much must I consume and fully digest before I can consider myself some form of "-IST"? Pls be gentle, my exposure to literature is limited at best

[Anonymous No.4758125]

start with the greeks

[Anonymous No.4758139]

Atlas Shrugged details the only -ism you need bother with.

[Anonymous No.4758138]

read introductory philosophy books and use this website for extension reading: http://plato.stanford.edu/index.html

it'll come as you expose yourself to more material, though.

good luck OP

[Anonymous No.4758147]

>>4758138
SEP is often bourgeois drivel, I cite their entry on libertarianism as evidence: compare to Wikipedia's article which is political in nature—oops it looks like the SEP has obliterated 170 years of communist libertarianism in order to account for only one use of the word in philosophy. Always double check the SEP against the IEP, even for an encyclopaedic summary.

[Anonymous No.4758157]

capitalism is a term of abuse coined by marx. he claims that the parliaments in "bourgeois democracies" represents the common interest of capital owners (accumulation) rather than that of the people

and fascism is another marxist thesis summarising the european dictatorships of the interbellum (in romania, italy, hungary etc.) as the bourgeoisie having realised democracy is too dangerous after in the wake of the russian revolution.

both terms have later been picked up by others.

marxism-leninism is also a term of abuse. the marxians themselves prefer "historical materialism". Americans do not call their philosophy Lockeism-Smithism either, but Liberalism. Still it's Locke and Adam Smith you must read if you want to learn about it.

[Anonymous No.4758159]

>>4758147
>bourgeois drivel
philosophy was first invented by grecian bourgeois. if you want proletarian drivel, go into the pub.

[Anonymous No.4758160]

>>4758157
>capitalism is a term of abuse coined by marx.
Smith discusses it extensively 75 years prior.

Starting with a bald faced lie doesn't convince anyone of your veracity.

[Anonymous No.4758162]

>>4758159
>philosophy was first invented by grecian bourgeois.
Value form didn't exist in antiquity.
Greek citizens would be offended by the suggestion that they were in trade. Arendt covers this well in the first chapters of Human Condition.

[Anonymous No.4758164]

>>4758160
Smith does not drop that term.

[Anonymous No.4758167]

Here's a good list if you want to get into political philosophy.

[Anonymous No.4758171]

>>4758164
https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=capitalism&year_start=1750&year_end=1850&corpus=0&smoothing=0&share=&direct_url=t1%3B%2Ccapitalism%3B%2Cc0

I am will to admit that we are both wrong.

[Anonymous No.4758182]

>>4758162
"citizens" has the very same thing as "bourgeois".
>Greek citizens would be offended by the suggestion that they were in trade
Old Athenian coins are scattered all the way from Spain to Persia and Russia. The whole Grecian world relied on the sea trade routes; and you are telling me there was no trade and no value form. Are you so inane?

[Anonymous No.4758187]

>>4758171
>we are both wrong.
how's life for you with schizophrenia?

[Anonymous No.4758217]

>>4758182
>"citizens" has the very same thing as "bourgeois".

Read Arendt you fucking idiot.

>coins are the value form
Read capital 1.

[Anonymous No.4758223]

>>4758124
"admitting ignorance is the destruction of ignorance" -/lit/pleb

[Anonymous No.4758237]

>>4758217
>you fucking idiot.
with you i'm done until you've learnt some basics courtesy. or is it too "bourgeois"? do any of your German Führer figures have a quote about that?

[Anonymous No.4758247]

Start with the Greeks

[Anonymous No.4758251]

>>4758167

Oh, you...

[Anonymous No.4758263]

>>4758124
really to free yourself from the marginalization and the (Machiavellian) "generalizations" i would recommend you to read whitman, emerson, little plato(republic/youtubeaudiobookeven). all in an attempt to realize your surroundings and the platonic sense of oneness between all of these varying philosophies with the masonic temptation of a the true instinct which is the prosperity of the beings. -/lit/pleb

[Anonymous No.4758285]

>>4758237
if you gather that the "bourgeois" is in general bad then you are confused or Marx had some critical flaws. my respect for Marx leaves me to think that you have reacted negatively to the idea that job creators and wealthy people control and exploit the proletariate. coming from the stand point of a haunt bourgeois i would recommend the tonic of consideration of the standing of Friedrich Engels as a rich man.

[Anonymous No.4758339]

>>4758285
«Fred», as Charlie called him, was not only a «rich man» or a «Fabrikant». He was also a major «whoremonger». And Marx had carbuncles. But how is all of this relevant to anything at all? Are you trying to impress people with your entry level knowledge of Marxian memes?

An ancient Greek citizen does also create jobs and he is also wealthy. The people he exploits does also have nothing but their children, but their «proles». How are they not «bourgeois»?

Marx certainly did not suffer your degree of Marxian autism.

[Anonymous No.4758360]

>>4758237
Yes, cunt, courtesy is a behaviour set used to select in groups. Read your fucking bourdieu

[Anonymous No.4758365]

>>4758339
>An ancient Greek citizen does also create jobs and he is also wealthy.
No. He doesn't. He avoids trade.

[Anonymous No.4758401]

>>4758360
I get it.
>le 4chan wanker habitus
>>4758365
no, he doesn't. He trades with the entire Mediterranean. Or how do you think he can afford all of this posh symposion stuff?

[Anonymous No.4758413]

>>4758339
way to dodge any intelligent conversation

you a prick bitch bfag

what a pompous cumrag

[Anonymous No.4758434]

>>4758339
lol'd at
Fred», as Charlie called him
self projecting a little?
> Are you trying to impress people

[Anonymous No.4758443]

>>4758413
>intelligent conversation
what is this bourgeois humbug? to me there are three kinds of conversation - propaganda, agitation and the prattle of the guns. Which one do you refer to as intelligent?

[Anonymous No.4758449]

>>4758139
autism

[Anonymous No.4758450]

>>4758401
>no, he doesn't. He trades with the entire Mediterranean. Or how do you think he can afford all of this posh symposion stuff?
Do bother to read any social history about the Greek citizenry. You're talking about lesser beings than citizens.

[Anonymous No.4758455]

>>4758434
When you see <<French arrows>> just ignore. Until the French burn the normaliens out they're a culture to ignore excepting their cartoonists, rappers and aesthetic walkers.

[Anonymous No.4758484]

>>4758157
>fascism is another marxist thesis
I disagree heavily.

[Anonymous No.4758496]

>>4758450
Where do you think the Grecian citizens were getting all of their wealth?
>You're talking about lesser beings than citizens.
The haute Bourgeoisie of the Ottocento was not exactly composed of clerks and craftsmen either.

[Anonymous No.4758544]

>>4758443
lol
implying you never acknowledge an intelligent conversation as such?

>Aren't you a young Howard Roark :P

[Anonymous No.4758553]

>>4758484
There are two meanings to that word. First is the eponymous Italian gang under Gabriele Denunzio, Benedetto Crotchy et altri and the second one, the broad term used for all of the extreme authoritarian nationalists, was first coined by the commie Georgi Dimitrov

[Anonymous No.4759165]

>>4758455
>French rap
>good

It's a well-known fact that rap is garbage in any language other than English.

[None No.4759178]

>>4758124

go for a haul in a second-hand book market. those types of books are always for sale.

[Anonymous No.4759259]

>>4759165
>>4759165
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YU0cpziAWbc>>4759165
I suppose you could argue this is really Franglais:
>Jeune, j ai souvenir d une « Mme Nicole »
>instit qui pensait qu un Bougnoule n était pas fait pour l école !
>J portais un velours troué, des bottes rouges en plastique,
>une cagoule en laine, un chandail ou des « Play-Basket ».
>Le coiffeur ne savait même pas encore que j existais !
>Mais , soit sûr que le 1er qui nous a vus s est désisté !
>Pourtant jeune et innocent, la morve au nez sans Kleenex,
>on squatte le bac à sable avec nos « Shabs » et nos idées
>afin de faire du vandalisme même sans le savoir !
>Nos parents n ont pas donc on erre sans avoir !
>D après nos voisins, de gros racistes, je le précise,
>nous étions mal élevés et leurs bergers allemands mieux dressés !
>Moi, j y crois pas , d ailleurs j y ai jamais cru
>car , parental est le seul amour que j ai jamais eu !
>Donc pour pas se véner, ce qui me met à l amende :
>les vertus du « Naanaa » donc du thé à la menthe !

[Anonymous No.4759335]

>>4759259

We are going to have to agree to disagree. I personally think this love people have of foreign rap comes from both insecurity on the part of foreigners and also the white hipster desire to take rap from the hands of black "thugs." It's a nice change, but it's not good rap. Sorry.

[Anonymous No.4759386]

>>4759335
French rap isn't that bad.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQk4EiAttAo

[Anonymous No.4759727]

Just Watch Shameless OP. That season finale was the most beautifully haunting display of alcoholism I've seen in any medium.

[Anonymous No.4759729]

>>4759727
british version?

[Anonymous No.4759744]

>>4758553
+Sorelist-influenced strains of "national syndicalism" after World War 1. Croce has little to do with it, really only supported Mussolini as an offset to the more dangerous ideologues of the party.

[Anonymous No.4759761]

>>4759729
I didn't know there was a british version. Does anyone know which one's better?

[Anonymous No.4759763]

>>4759761
the british one. it's practically a documentary.

[Anonymous No.4759776]

>>4759727
>>4759729
>>4759761
You guys are in the wrong thread.

OP, Oxford's Very Short Introductions are a godsend.

[ovarian cancer !!ArfwX2Zd2yp No.4759784]

>>4759776
>secondary sources

stay plebe

[Anonymous No.4759801]

>>4759784
>not using secondary sources

stay dumb

[Anonymous No.4759814]

Honestly your best bet is a combination of Wikipedia and the stanford philosophy wiki http://plato.stanford.edu/

Will be more helpful and time and money efficient than reading any of the books suggested. Of course it wont give you a nice bookshelf but its a great starting point.

[ovarian cancer !!ArfwX2Zd2yp No.4759822]

>>4759801
>not being primary source supreme race

it's understandable though if you're plebe enough to be in a position like op's

[Anonymous No.4759829]

>>4759822
I read both primary and secondary sources, of course.

[Anonymous No.4759909]

>>4759761
I think you're in the wrong thread, but the US one is better in every way. Only Brits with massive nostalgia goggles like the British one better.

[Anonymous No.4759910]

>>4758124
All of the government ones are just Feudalism (don't listen to the fucktards who tell me I'm wrong, they're still living in 1984). Essentially there is 3 schools of thought that resonate through all philosophies in some way shape or form: Socialism, Liberalism and Humanism. Everything else is just a distorted or mutant version adjusted to benefit a particular oligarch.
Also avoid reading any political socialist material, there are 2 types of socialism, the etymological one (what the word actually means) and the political one, which is often grouped with communism and marxism. Liberalism and Humanism are in a similar scenario but socialism is the most mushed up (this is because of propaganda from the 20th century). Learn to filter out bullshit, read between the lines and ignore everyone's opinion, then you'll get some answers.

[cl_l No.4759946]

>>4759909

That's like the exact opposite of what's true.

[Anonymous No.4759965]

I'm guessing you don't want to sift through primary texts Op so this is what I tell people that ask these questions

Google
Philosophy bro
Squashed philosophers

Detailed 10-20minute readings on authors and political positions that will have you understanding the gist of someone saying.

I'm a historical materialist or I'm a hegalian, feminist, libertarian etc etc

[Anonymous No.4759985]

>>4759910
What about Egoist nihilism? Stirner, Novatore, etc.

[Anonymous No.4759986]

>>4759910
Wrong. Feudalism is probably better than a state.

[Anonymous No.4759991]

>>4758124
Read: 'Classic and Modern Social Theory' edited by Heine Andersen and Lars Bo Kaspersen

Great introduction book

[Anonymous No.4759999]

>>4759910
>All of the government ones are just Feudalism

Maybe if you expand your definition of 'Feudalism' to the point where it becomes meaningless.

[Anonymous No.4760934]

>>4759744
If ideologues were dangerous /lit/ would be the single most dangerous place on this planet. Sorel influenced Mussolini about as much as he influenced Lenin. Goebbels didn't even read Sorel. Instead he read Bernays who was also who tremendously influential in the USA.

It is a mistake to presume there was a Fascism as a solid unified counterpart to Marxism or Buddhist or Christianity. This is very wrong. There was a fascist party and there was an unrelated concept of «fascism» first coined by the commies and picked up by pinko liberals in Europe.

Ideologically the Italian Futurism had a lot in common with Russian Futurism; Hitler had a lot in common with Teddy Roosevelt; Franco had a lot in common with the pope. Is everyone a fascist now?

[Anonymous No.4761004]

>>4759986
>Feudalism is probably better than a state.
:)

[Anonymous No.4761043]

This is a great intro to all of the literary -isms.

[Anonymous No.4761426]

There's a great book by a man named Barry called "Beginning Theory."