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/lit/ - Literature

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4753944 No.4753944[DELETED]  [Reply] [Original]

guys can we discuss Fight Club. Specifically any overlooked aspects?

>> No.4753960

Like?

>> No.4753957

more edges than a pentadodecahedron

>> No.4753972

>overlooked aspects

its a good book, though touching on consumerism and the void generic men feel isnt anything spectacular

>> No.4754005

>>4753972
>caring about consumerism
You know it's about the narrator being a flaming homo, right?
not that there's anything wrong with that

>> No.4754057

>>4754005

nope, the book is about the übermensch specifically

>> No.4754067

>>4753957
a snub dodecahedron?

>> No.4754217

>>4753944
I got so many homosexual vibes from this book

>> No.4754245

>>4754217

Unsurprisingly, Palahniuk is gay.

>> No.4754344

How about the whole" is manliness obsolete in today's society?" angle

agree/disagree?

>> No.4754369

Never read the book but I watched the movie and as an oldfag I was shocked to see how they copied 4chan memes. The rules 1&2 of the fight club are just /b/'s rules 1&2 with "/b/" replaced by "fight club". Isn't that some kind of copyright violation?

>> No.4754385

>>4754344
"manliness" is mindless self-indulgence and anger, which I do enjoy however it's rather juvenile in the scheme of things

I find great honor in warriors, wether physically or mentally; anyone who would fight for what they believe in is a winner regardless of if they're "good" or "evil"

>> No.4754404

>>4754385

Wouldn't you consider anger and self-indulgence just a byproduct of the manliness the men in project mayhem were fighting for?

Although the members of project mayhem fought for what they believed was right -to reclaim their concept of "man" - didn't they ultimately defy themselves by turning into an institution? Proving that their version (the traditional idea) of "man" is now obsolete in today's society?

>> No.4754422

I tried to read Palahniuk

I just can't shake the feeling that his body of work is intended as a parody of 90s edginess. I'm sorry I just can't deal with this motherfucker.

>> No.4754429
File: 304 KB, 1920x1080, frickingliberal.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4754429

>>4754422

The book has a context, and a moment in the life of a 80'ies 90'ies teenager. I like to use some of it as a symbol. Apparently, I am not the only one.

>> No.4754437

>>4754429
it was kind of a shitty moment, let's be honest

I think I'm ready for it to be over.

>> No.4754441

>>4754385
>"manliness" is mindless self-indulgence and anger

I'd have to disagree entirely; masculinity is built on discipline and control of one's emotions.

>> No.4754450

Is Project Mayhem better or worse than the society they're rebelling against? Because it seems that despite its anti-consumerism it's just as cultish and indoctrinating as the white-collar world.

Did you just finish this for some class, OP? I happen to be in the discussing in my college lit class this and next week.

>> No.4754458

>>4754441
Was the narrator in control of his emotions while destroying the angel boy? Was that manly?

>> No.4754463

>>4754437

>it was kind of a shitty moment, let's be honest

No, not really. I enjoyed my edgy-ness, it taught me a lot of things.

Every "era" of life has it's moments, and importance, it "configures" you as a person. Being able to travel back and forth to them, isn't necessarily a bad thing, therefore, they're never really over.

>> No.4754467

>>4754450

Yes I did. I had read/watched it many times previous so already had a handle on it - but my lit class did open up the homo-erotic themes among religous themes which went over my head.

The themes of masculinity legitimately interest me though - to a good extent.

>> No.4754470

>>4754450

Project Mayhem is an institution. All the members are faceless and are under the command of Tyler - their leader.

Tyler goes against everything he preaches when he says "We'll be legend. We'll be remembered forever" in the first chapter.

>> No.4754504

>>4754463
I meant the 90's dude.

everybody was doing this whole "Whatever maaaaan like I don't even care". The dumbed down postmodern degenerate sneer of dumbed down ideas of "punk rock". I mean guess that the 90s tried to bring things back down to earth after the horribleness of the 80s, but the 90s really were pretty bad

>> No.4754549

>>4754458
what is an ideal?

>> No.4754565

>>4754450
>Because it seems that despite its anti-consumerism it's just as cultish and indoctrinating as the white-collar world.

That's the point.

>> No.4754618

The various aspects of the book's main character, the club and the actions undertaken within is wholly an inversion of the culture cultivated for the modern America.

>Fist fights
hand to hand one on one vs. American team sports, armoured protective versions of the traditional sport rugby.
>No guns
despite the visual brutality of the club, the club does not inflict any non consensual violence or promote the use devices / weapons, as opposed to the American police who are trained, educated and equipped to inflict violence as their primary action. Home owners and the constitution advocate for the infliction of violence and it's devices.
>Needs an split personality
to engage in sex, American protestantism.
to blow up / destroy his material possessions... the final reveal is apart of the overall parable which is, that all of these cultural devices promoted within America are the socialised expression of the typical statist control devices used as a means of fabricating a sustained and absolute power, but! on the only remaining medium unrestricted by these: financial capital. Thus the individual now places importance on this. The dichotomy being that despite it's perception of moneys freedom, is it's under absolute control by the state and these institutions project mayhem attacks.
This totalitarian prevention of post-capitalism is maintained by everything they attack.
But of course being a populist piece of lit and movie is that all of this has to be expressed through recuperation and détournement.

>> No.4754628

One thing that I think is never discussed when we do not talk about fight club it the idea of modern debt slavery in capitalism, and how Chuck took the ancient concept of the jubilee and turned it into a revolutionary act. And he's right. There will not be a meaningful reform of western capitalism without debt forgiveness, and we'll never get that reform without a revolution. Which just goes to show Rosa Luxembourg was right, too.
It's a tragedy that a book about socialist revolution was publicly received as being about something else entirely. Much like The Jungle. American culture has mechanisms to ensure this is always the case.

Also, Chuck Palahniuk is a huge homo.

>> No.4754659

>>4754628
>a book about socialist revolution
I think you mean an anarchocommunist revolution with a touch of primitivism.

>> No.4754692

>>4754659
Depending on which flavor of socialism you're talking about that can be simply semantics.

>> No.4754724

>>4754067
Metatron's cube rotated gif, pleb
1am2edgy3you4now

>> No.4754729

>>4754369
slim bait selection today joe

>> No.4754742

>>4754692
Anarchoprimitivism is necessarily socialist but socialism is not necessarily anarchoprimitivist.
___________

It upsets me that the movie did the relationship between Tyler and Jack so very well (the book pretty much just flat out says "Tyler Durden and I are best friends" and never expands on it at all) and the book did the relationship between Jack and Marla so well and I think that there should be some form of media that combines each, leaving nothing out and putting the events that happened in one but not the other and vice versa into one story. Especially that "first time I wanted Anarchy" story about Ireland from the book, beautiful stuff.

>> No.4754776

could it simply be a Shakespearian play on the prevalent madness of man?... and the constructs and complexities of that madness?... in fight club which all are rooting from the vulgarity of society as a whole. besides saying tyler was a figment of madness how can you even say marla singer wasn't or the entire fight club wasn't just one delusion of grandeur? the battle in man between the *jus naturale vs lex naturalis(if you will excuse my Hobbes speak)?

>> No.4754781

>>4754618
i like your point on guns
only when at the start/end when the gun is in his own mouth and when he realizes his madness

>> No.4754788

>>4754618
>the club does not inflict any non consensual violence or promote the use devices / weapons

Until Fight Club becomes Project Mayhem and they start detonating bombs on everything. I think that's about the journey from the most primitive form of "law" (gotta use that word loosely in a primitive context) enforcement to the organized gang that is a police force.

>> No.4754843

Say what you will, but Fight Club is the most important book of our age.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThrZ9-sS6aM

>> No.4754858
File: 43 KB, 676x552, 1397014355765.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4754858

>>4754843
Why is he talking like he's mad at me?

>> No.4754864

>>4754843
I disagree with this guy on politics but I really like him. Am I alone in this?

>> No.4754971
File: 1.84 MB, 346x194, 1361240556564.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4754971

I actually kind of dig Fight Club in that "yeah I remember thinking all this stuff when I was 16" but honestly the book seems very confused to me. There's a lot of countercultural philosophy in there that just doesn't mesh, and the book falls apart towards the end with the whole project mayhem thing.

I dunno. I'd rather people read Fight Club and get all edgy than just not think at all. But I don't think it's quite the culmination of anti-traditional-Western thought thingy that everyone makes it out to be.

>> No.4754980

>>4754971
see that's actually kinda my point about the book

i wanted to try and define where its philosophy is coming from, but really, Fight Club has nothing to say, other than "what we're going right now is bad, we have to define masculinity some other way"

then tyler durden goes and does a bunch of shit and acts like he knows exactly what he's doing when it seems like he has no vision

>> No.4755013

>>4754971
Project Mayhem is supposed to be the exact thing they're trying to kill. It's about the inevitability of civilization despite everyone's longing for simplicity, that's why it rose out of the primitivist, brutal Fight Club.

>"We are not special. We are not crap or trash, either. We just are. We just are, and what happens just happens. And God says, 'No, that's not right.' Yeah. Well. Whatever. You can't teach God anything."

It's God's untouchable will that things are this way.

>> No.4755027

>>4754864
https://youtube.com/watch?v=4UL1B3DSZSo

So bad and yet I can't stop watching

>> No.4755348

>>4754971
I'm so glad the version of that gif I fixed so it pauses long enough to make the punchline readable is the one people are using now.

>> No.4755352

After this thread I feel like I've read the novel, thanks guys, no need to waste my time on this piece of counter-culture trite shit.

>> No.4755356

>>4755348
It's sooooooo cute X]

>> No.4755736

i kinda want fight club to start being taught in high school so that high schoolers will stop reading it

>> No.4755866
File: 7 KB, 249x240, lenny.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4755866

>>4755027
jesus fucking christ