Make me a Marxist, /lit/.

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Anonymous Sat Apr 5 02:26:57 2014 No.4738856 [DELETED]

Make me a Marxist, /lit/.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 5 02:31:57 2014 No.4738865 That's ideological. The proper response is that you haven't been exposed to the material circumstances that would induce you to become a Marxist. In which case I would suggest you read a fucking book.

Anonymous Sat Apr 5 02:37:58 2014 No.4738877

Step 1: Become stupid enough to yoke yourself to a rigid ideology.
Step 2: Get involved at your local multicultural center.
Step 3: This is the most vital step for the modern Marxist; either don't be white, or learn to hate white people regardless.
Step 4: Enroll in your local university, pursuing a BA in women's studies, queer literature, sociology, integrative sciences or any number of bullshit "fields."
Step 5: Never, ever shut up about it.

Congratulations, now you too can give repeated, loud sighs in public whenever someone expresses a dissenting opinion, passively begging them to ask you for your own opinion.

Anonymous Sat Apr 5 02:44:57 2014 No.4738885

How to tell if you're a Marxist

1. Clear your mind and get comfortable.
You will need to be relaxed and focused for the test to work.

2. Read the following text box.
Life is difficult. Strength is required to survive. Those who thrive in this world are great, and should be admired.

3. Think about your anus.
Did your anus clench up in fear or anger?

4. Check your cheeks for tears.
Did you cry like a little girl at the prospect of having to fend for yourself and compete with others?

5a. If you answered 'yes' to (3) and (4), you are a Marxist.
Please begin reading and discussing Marxist literature so that everyone can know to avoid you.

5b. If you answered 'yes' to only ONE of (3) and (4), you may only be a bit of a pussy.
Please consider undertaking physical labour and/or reading a book that involves self-discipline.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 5 02:56:58 2014 No.4738902 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9Whccunka4

Anonymous Sat Apr 5 03:04:58 2014 No.4738918

It's a Messianic religion for atheists.

Marx = God.
Proletariat = Messias.
Revolutionary terrorists = Martyrs.
Classless society = Kingdom of Heaven.
etc.

The thing that you need to know is that at its core Marxism/Socialism/Communism is made up of psychopathic elites who want to see humanity burn, and through shrewd propaganda they recruit idealistic gullible fools to serve as their outer circle as "useful idiots". The end goal is a State where there are no spiritual values except the worship of The Party. Complete tyranny, total enslavement. They despise all forms of Religion, morality, virtue, etc. They want to put an end to the family, they want to make it so that your kids belong to the state from the moment they are born. They promote decadence in the media in order to weaken the morals of a country and make them more "bolshevizable".

I'm not an American that grew up with a paranoia about Communism. I grew up after the Cold War and I had no bias against Communism. I read Marx and I liked much of what he was saying because I did find the consumerist culture of "Capitalism" to be decadent and void of any true value. Then, to my surprise, I began to find out that the Communists were even more nihilistic than the so-called Capitalists (and really, the Communists and the Capitalists are largely the same people. They've been in bed together for quite a while). Marx talks about his hatred for the Bourgeois as amoral pigs that only value money, but Marx himself valued nothing more than violence, envy and hatred. The Bourgeois are practically saints compared to the.Communists.

I also.found Religion. Marxism is largely a substitute for religion. I can understand why an atheist would want to be a Marxist - he has no heaven to wait for in the afterlife, so why not make heaven on earth during this life? A complete impossibility. The Kingdom of Heaven is inside you and it always will be. There can never be a utopia on Earth so long as there is a single man with a tendency towards evil. Read Dostoevsky's Notes from Underground. He explains why Utopia on Earth is impossible - there is a type of man that if he lived in a perfectly happy society he would break the laws just for the sake of it.

Utopia only exists in the soul of the saints. Not only is utopia impossible on Earth, it is a downright insane project to try and bring it about.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 5 03:08:59 2014 No.4738923 >>4738865 How about a tip for which one, dipshit?

>>	ovarian cancer !!ArfwX2Zd2yp Sat Apr 5 03:08:59 2014 No.4738925 >>4738918 r u sure about all this i was under the impression that idealized marxism would be a perfect classless utopia rather than some bizarre blah blah blah that you're talking about

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 5 03:11:58 2014 No.4738929 >>4738885 You know what nevermind what I was going to say, this guy has it.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 5 03:12:58 2014 No.4738933 >>4738918 >utopia literally means non-existent place >DID U GUYS KNOW UTOPIA IS IMPOSSIBLE??

Anonymous Sat Apr 5 03:49:45 2014 No.4738993
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if you push or are in favor of multiculturalism, every racial/cultural conflict is on your hands

you are the ones responsible for muslims burning buddhists on the street and buddhist burning muslims on the street and genociding them

you are the ones responsible for the british soldier being decapitated on the streets of britain

you are the ones responsible for the british burning down mosques and attacking muslims

you are the ones responsible for the pedophile arabs prostituting white children

you are the ones responsible for the 6 days of riots in sweden where they set fire to hospitals and libraries

you are the ones responsible for muslim "youth thugs" throwing acid in womens faces who are walking their children home from school

you are the ones responsible for the pregnant muslim women being stabbed in france

you are the ones responsible for the rise in fascism in europe and around the world

you are the ones responsible for the upcoming slaughter of immigrants
german nationalism rising
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apV2Ifp7woA
swedish nationalism rising
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhN8vmhrl14
french nationalism rising
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0hEHom9qXQ
greek nationalism rising
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtwUEBe1mro
british nationalism rising
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-4F0E9J3BY
italian nationalism rising
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_dmvOlwf30

explain yourselves Marxist fags, how do you feel about all this blood on your hands, it hasn't even begun yet

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 5 03:52:45 2014 No.4738996 >>4738993 >Being this brainwashed

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 5 03:53:45 2014 No.4738998 >>4738993 >>>/pol/ I could smell the stench from 15 posts away

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 5 03:55:45 2014 No.4739002 >>4738877 That's now how you use a semi-colon. What you were looking for was a colon. You're spot on about everything, though.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 5 03:56:45 2014 No.4739003 File: 232 KB, 1000x800, breakout_fanning.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>4738993 topkek!

Anonymous Sat Apr 5 03:59:45 2014 No.4739006

>>4738993
>blaming Marxism for multiculturalism

Historically, support for modern multiculturalism stems from the changes in Western societies after World War II, in what Susanne Wessendorf calls the "human rights revolution", in which the horrors of institutionalized racism and ethnic cleansing became almost impossible to ignore in the wake of the Holocaust; with the collapse of the European colonial system, as colonized nations in Africa and Asia successfully fought for their independence and pointed out the discriminatory underpinnings of the colonial system; and, in the United States in particular, with the rise of the Civil Rights Movement, which criticized ideals of assimilation that often led to prejudices against those who did not act according to Anglo-American standards and which led to the development of academic ethnic studies programs as a way to counteract the neglect of contributions by racial minorities in classrooms.[132][133] As this history shows, multiculturalism in Western countries was seen as a useful set of strategies to combat racism, to protect minority communities of all types, and to undo policies that had prevented minorities from having full access to the opportunities for freedom and equality promised by the liberalism that has been the hallmark of Western societies since the Age of Enlightenment.

Anonymous Sat Apr 5 04:01:45 2014 No.4739009

>>4738885
>Please consider undertaking physical labour and/or reading a book that involves self-discipline.

Marxism is all about giving those who does this their fair share of the produce. Your share of the workload should determine your value not how much of the means of production you have a paper on that states you 'own' it.

Also, competition =/= being owned by your boss

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 5 04:03:46 2014 No.4739011 >>4739009 >Marxism is all about giving those who does this their fair share of the produce. Thank you based Inner Party

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 5 04:05:45 2014 No.4739015 >>4739011 It's better than thanking your walmart boss your privilege of having to be on Medicaid and foodstamps on the side even though you have a 8 hour work day. Thank you competitive corporate welfare for the rich.

Anonymous Sat Apr 5 04:15:45 2014 No.4739027 [DELETED]

>>4738885
>Did you cry like a little girl at the prospect of having to fend for yourself and compete with others?

I do just fine competing. In fact, for the most of my life I've been near the front in the race. But to pit everyone against each other like this is to live in a society that mirrors the state of nature, the antithesis of civilization. The invisible hand is an idea of laziness. The capitalists who fear government power fail to realize that the big business owners are their de facto rulers and, motivated for the most part by their self-interest, though fortunately there are those who care about their image and so begin doing philanthropic work.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 5 04:21:45 2014 No.4739028 File: 346 KB, 500x380, 3tM9vhm.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>4738856 Lock yourself inside with no sunlight, fatty foods, and don't exercise

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 5 04:23:45 2014 No.4739031 >>4738856 Do you believe in magic?

Anonymous Sat Apr 5 04:31:45 2014 No.4739040

>>4739015
>the only solution to shitty working conditions is demonising the capitalist class and openly acting to dismantle the state

Or hey, you know, social democracy, which was working to create the best working conditions in human history before, after, and during the appalling failure that was Marxist Communism

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 5 04:49:45 2014 No.4739059 >>4739040 "social democracy" pre-ww1 was essentially a synonym for marxism. lool it up before you spew shit you know nothing about

>>	Feminister !!F9QVQ82MjmE Sat Apr 5 04:53:45 2014 No.4739065 >>4738923 Das Kapital

Anonymous Sat Apr 5 04:59:45 2014 No.4739073

Have you taken a 19th century history class? Do you really think Social Democrats were synonymous with Marxists? Do you know how long Socialism existed among the intellectual strata before Marxism even entered the discourse? Or do you mean the Marxism that had to be reinvigorated into proto-fascism by Sorel, followers of Le Bon, and idiot vanguardists like Lenin, because dumbshit revolutionaries were annoyed that their aims had been accomplished without violence?

Besides, I said Marxist Communism. Read a book.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 5 05:15:45 2014 No.4739094 >>4739073 >implying communist aims have ever been accomplished without violence Turns out there's more to it than a nice welfare system, bud.

Anonymous Sat Apr 5 05:21:45 2014 No.4739098
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>>4739094
>Implying Communist aims have ever been accomplished at all

Nigger please, until we hit post-scarcity a Mixed Economy and Moderately Socialist government are better than Communism. Would you rather live in Sweden or the Soviet union?

>>4738885
>Implying life has to be difficult
>Implying its difficult outside of third world shitholes and the Ujnited States
>Thinking traits people are born with or without (strength/etc) should preclude them from a comfortable existence

Look at this corporate dicksucker

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 5 05:26:45 2014 No.4739103 >>4739098 What does Marxism imply that wouldn't develop in a capitalist post-scarcity society anyway?

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 5 06:13:09 2014 No.4739139 >>4739094 >implying the bolshevik seizure of power wasnt bloodless

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 5 06:15:09 2014 No.4739141 >>4739073 >implying yurop's largest and most influential social democratic party wasn't the brainchild of a direct student of marx and engels, karl kautsky

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 5 06:26:09 2014 No.4739150 >>4739103 Marxism does imply the post scarcity post capitalism society. Socialists only differ on the question "are we there yet?" And the answer is: no.

Anonymous Sat Apr 5 06:33:09 2014 No.4739156

>>4739150
Wow, okay. So my view that, in a post-scarcity society (assuming such can exist - exponential population growth is a thing) most people would just do shit they found fun and generally have a good time, without having to worry about trading or anything because everyone can have everything they want, means I'm technically a Marxist?

Does this mean Marxism isn't actually an economic theory in the sense of a theory on how to allocate scarce resources?

Anonymous Sat Apr 5 06:37:09 2014 No.4739160

>>4739150
And my view that capitalism is a pretty awesome intermediary doesn't change that?

I mean, I always picture capitalist competition as like a harness on a destructive process. We direct the greed and selfishness of individuals in our society to do things that benefit us all, and that's *awesome*. It's not always done well, it's a dangerous force to be reckoned with, but it's kind of Promethean in that respect.

Anonymous Sat Apr 5 06:43:59 2014 No.4739165

>>4739156
No, that means you're a Socialist.

And the higher standards of living get, the lower birth rates get. Exponential population growth isn't actually a thing because as soon as people are properly educated about Sex, and infant mortality rates drop below fifty percent, birth rates plummet.

Or rather, exponential population growth doesn't have to be a thing. And its currently only a thing in the third world.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 5 06:46:59 2014 No.4739168 >>4739165 Oh, I'm anti-death personally. Somehow I can imagine people choosing to have more than two kids if they live forever.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 5 06:54:59 2014 No.4739179 >>4739139 >what is the russian civil war are u retarded

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 5 06:59:59 2014 No.4739183 >>4739179 >implying that wasnt instigated by the whites with enormous financial backing from western europe and the us

Anonymous Sat Apr 5 07:02:59 2014 No.4739186

>>4739006
>since the age of enlightenment

No, I'm not that guy, but most enlightenment thinkers were racist and imperialist. Voltaire, Kant, Hume, and many others were actively racist. The only ones I can think of off the top of my head that weren't were Raynal and maybe Diderot.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 5 07:03:59 2014 No.4739191 >>4739183 It takes two to tango m8. You said it was bloodless. Was it? Tell me categorically that the Bolshevik seizure of power was bloodless.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 5 07:13:03 2014 No.4739198 >>4739186 Being intellectually racist means you're making claims that can be falsified, which is waaaay closer to not being racist than just assuming that Jews are moneygrubbing bastards who murder Christian children at their dark midnight rituals.

Anonymous Sat Apr 5 07:15:01 2014 No.4739200

(young) people (in academia) are communists because it's easy
you take the moral high ground, you don't have to explain, whenever something bad happens you can simply say "wouldn't happen under communism", when confronted you can say "communism has never been tried" and it doesn't require a thorough understanding of economics
essentially you can feel good about yourself and your beliefs while doing the bare minimum and remaining unaccountable (at least in your mind) for the state of the world
they also don't realise how culturally different we would be, e.g. I have a friend that calls themselves a marxist but they enjoy anime and k-pop, when these wouldn't exist or be produced in a marxist system
also not only do they take the moral high ground, but they're largely morally and intellectually unaccountable, they rarely have to justify themselves on either level as most people on a university campus are either sympathetic to their viewpoint or too stupid/ don't care enough to question it
if you say you're a capitalist, you will be asked to justify every single wrongdoing of the last 200 years, and when you explain the economic theory to them they don't understand it and continue to hate you

Anonymous Sat Apr 5 07:39:00 2014 No.4739221

>>4739198
What on earth? How is that related to what I said? I was merely pointing out the flaw in the logic that Western society has produced multiculturalism as the answer to the enlightenment's alleged goal of universal human liberty as quoted in that piece.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 5 07:40:00 2014 No.4739223 >>4739186 Even though Enlightenment thinkers were racist, they created the idea of 'universal rights of man' that later reformers wanted to extend to all humans.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 5 07:41:01 2014 No.4739224 >>4739221 I wasn't disagreeing with you, just making an observation.

Anonymous Sat Apr 5 07:48:15 2014 No.4739231

>>4739223
The Universal Rights of Man and the Citizen shows a pretty clear distinction between man, in the sense of all humans, and Man and the Citizen, that is Frenchmen. Napoleon reinstated slavery. John Stuart Mill was an ardent benevolent Imperialist and the heir to the enlightenment in Britain. There is no evidence that anyone except the relatively marginal figures of Paine and Wollstonecraft wanted to extend rights to all, and assuming that multiculturalism was a response to the enlightenments quest for liberty is borderline absurd as no writers in the enlightenment had any concept of that very 21st century buzzword.

>>4739224
Fair enough, sorry!

Anonymous Sat Apr 5 07:55:14 2014 No.4739238

>>4738856
I honestly don't mind the idea of subjectivity but when you consider who's pushing for it and the tenancies of these people then it becomes a bit more cynical.

You just know they're not doing it out of any true belief in subjectivity but so they can use it to silence dissent.

>you aren't x so you cannot comment on y
>muh feelings

I mean, what do you think a feminist is going to use subjectivity for? Promoting a vibrant discussion with various viewpoints? Most of them view differing views as polluting a discussion.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 5 07:55:14 2014 No.4739239 >>4739059 but not today faggit

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 5 07:59:14 2014 No.4739244 >>4738856 >not all biased everyone is biased.

Anonymous Sat Apr 5 08:01:14 2014 No.4739251

>>4739244
Yeah, she's pretty fond of strawmen. Honestly, trying to have a rational debate with this woman is like pulling teeth. I'm pretty sure she's going to walk off a cliff one day because we, like, create our own realities, man, and physics is just an instrument of the patriarchy.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 5 08:15:14 2014 No.4739261 Haven't read through this thread yet but how many people here have referred to Marxists as lazy good-for-nothing intellectuals?

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 5 08:18:14 2014 No.4739266 All I know is that, as a Marxist, I would feel fine if every idiot on this board was murdered.

Anonymous Sat Apr 5 08:18:14 2014 No.4739267
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>>4739231

the problem here is that sentiments like that are 'unprincipled exceptions' in the context of their ostensible intellectual positions. certainly they may be using their own reasoning to arrive at such and such opinions, but like the conservatives of today, the internal logic of the *justifications* for their professed ideological positions points towards ever inflation of franchise as teleological necessity. some guy in another thread said he didint think that 'democracy and communism were incompatible', such a statement is amusing for a number of reasons, but not the least of which being that one necessarily leads to the other as natural consequence when one takes ideology seriously (ie, autists).

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 5 08:19:14 2014 No.4739271 >>4739266 Only an idiot Marxist like you would feel fine with your own death.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 5 08:19:14 2014 No.4739272 >>4739266 solve the economic calculation problem

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 5 08:20:14 2014 No.4739274 >>4739271 By idiot, I mean everyone who is against Marxist beliefs.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 5 08:26:14 2014 No.4739283 >>4739274 solve the economic calculation problem

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 5 08:28:14 2014 No.4739284 >>4739283 Get murdered.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 5 08:28:14 2014 No.4739286 >>4739266 >>4739284 >Hi, I'm a Marxist, and I'm applying violent ad hominems as soon as I meet someone I disagree with yes i'm a hypocrite

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 5 08:29:14 2014 No.4739287 >>4739284 I will kill myself if you solve the economic calculation problem

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 5 08:32:33 2014 No.4739292 >>4739286 Explain the hypocrisy or get murdered.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 5 08:33:33 2014 No.4739293 >>4738885 Haha 10/10 description

Anonymous Sat Apr 5 08:35:33 2014 No.4739296

>>4739292
I was saying that I'm being hypocritical by calling the Marxist dude on using ad hominems and ignoring any substance, when I'm ignoring the substance of the debate too.

Is "get murdered" just, like, a friendly greeting between Marxists or something?

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 5 08:37:33 2014 No.4739300 >>4739296 There is no debate. I was just saying, that as a Marxist, I would feel fine if every liberal and libertarian were drowned in an ocean somewhere.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 5 08:39:33 2014 No.4739305 >>4739300 solve the economic calculation problem

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 5 08:41:33 2014 No.4739308 >>4739300 But isn't historical determinism implied by Marxism? If that's the case, what's the point of being Marxist and what harm is done by non-Marxists?

Anonymous Sat Apr 5 08:52:33 2014 No.4739330

Serious question: how does capital allocation theoretically work in a communist economy?

For example, assume there are two competing groups of potential entrepreneurs that want to build VR goggles:

1. Oculus Rift who want $200 million, will bring the product to market in 3 years, and will have 1080p per eye.
and
2. Moculus Sift who want just $150 million and 2 years, but will only do 720p per eye.

How do these groups go about acquiring the money they need? How is a choice made regarding which project is likely to be most profitable? Who takes on the risk? Does only one get funded or do both? Are there competing groups that determine capital allocation, in such a way that both projects could get funded but by different people? The Rift will take longer to come to market (no first mover advantage) but is a superior product, how does that play into the funding equation?

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 5 09:03:33 2014 No.4739343 >>4739330 neither would be funded there is no money or innovation in communism

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 5 09:12:33 2014 No.4739349 >>4739266 lol, what a fag

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 5 09:26:34 2014 No.4739374 >>4739330 Communism will make waifus real.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 5 10:11:57 2014 No.4739436 >>4739343 This is objectively wrong.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 5 10:12:57 2014 No.4739437 >>4739436 no it isn't communists admit to that of their own volition

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 5 10:14:57 2014 No.4739442 >>4739437 What?

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 5 10:18:57 2014 No.4739453 >>4739436 So can you answer the original question then?

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 5 10:21:57 2014 No.4739459 >>4739453 That which is deemed more beneficial will be made. Or if it's deemed an useless pursuit with no practical value, it won't be funded.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 5 10:21:57 2014 No.4739460 >>4739442 what I said is not objectively wrong within a marxist system there is no money or innovation

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 5 10:22:58 2014 No.4739463 >>4739459 Deemed by whom? Based on what factors? Is VR waifu sex "beneficial" at all? If not, does that mean communist societies will always be constrained to 3dpds? And if it is deemed beneficial, where do the resources come from?

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 5 10:22:58 2014 No.4739461 >>4739460 How so?

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 5 10:24:57 2014 No.4739466 >>4739463 Depends on who you ask, by one kind it'll be decided within a local small democratic commune by another kind it will be decided by technocrats who knows what is best.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 5 10:26:57 2014 No.4739469 >>4739463 >where do the resources come from? Where they've always come from.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 5 10:29:57 2014 No.4739471 >>4739461 there is no reason to innovate under marxism VR waifu goggles certainly wouldn't be made

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 5 10:30:57 2014 No.4739475 >>4739466 A local small democratic commune isn't going to have access to the capital required for a $200 mil project though (or the risk-taking capacity to invest in the early stages of a startup for that matter).

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 5 10:32:57 2014 No.4739477 >>4739475 therefore >>4739343

Anonymous Sat Apr 5 10:35:57 2014 No.4739481

>>4739466
Is there such a thing as a market Marxist? Because markets are awesome but blindly optimizing the world for profit isn't. If we use conditional prediction markets to make the majority of our decisions, with the prediction markets trading "lottery tickets" for particular goods (a small cost in inequality for a large benefit in rationality) then that's nearly a good idea.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 5 10:38:57 2014 No.4739489 >>4739481 there is market socialism like all other forms of socialism it has been refuted

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 5 10:41:57 2014 No.4739496 >>4739489 The model of markets as information aggregation systems seems like a direction to look towards, whatever your politics.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 5 10:45:57 2014 No.4739505 >>4739496 no shit but try explaining that to idealistic 19 year olds that have never opened an economic textbook in their lives

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/lit/ - Literature