which is better: >Science Fiction >Fantasy Why? Winner decides the fate of /lit/

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Anonymous Mon Mar 31 02:04:05 2014 No.4720666 [Reply] [Original]

which is better:

>Science Fiction
>Fantasy

Why? Winner decides the fate of /lit/

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 31 02:05:05 2014 No.4720668 devil trips means this thread is legit

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 31 02:08:04 2014 No.4720678 >>4720666 >which is better: Science fiction, obviously. >Why? No sparkly ponies, elves, unicorns or any other such faggotry in sight.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 31 02:10:04 2014 No.4720682 >>4720666 >which is better. Fantasy, obviously. >Why? No sentient robots, megacomputers, aliens or any other such faggotry in sight.

Anonymous Mon Mar 31 02:11:04 2014 No.4720685

>>4720678
I'll argue that modern Sci Fi (more like syfy) is full of sparkly ponies, elves, and unicorns, except in space.

With most YA classified as Science-Fiction, I considered the distinction between fantasy and sci-fi today essentially nonexistent.

Anonymous Mon Mar 31 02:13:04 2014 No.4720692
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Tough call. If the fantasy has strong mythological components and doesn't lose appeal over time I would side with fantasy.

Science fiction has a less timeless quality to it: IN THE YEAR 1999 WE WILL BE ON THE MOON. LOS ANGELES IS A WARZONE, AND ONLY ONE ATOMIC CYBORG FROM VENUS CAN SHOW US THE WAY.

THIS

IS

ROBOTOTOM

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 31 02:15:05 2014 No.4720697 >>4720678 >No sparkly ponies, unicorns It is like you don't even furiously masturbate to tiny, pastel-colored, sentient cartoon horses. Fucking pleb

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 31 02:16:05 2014 No.4720699 >>4720678 second, because we are living in a cyberpunk dystopia right now, and I don't see any fucking faggot elves anywhere.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 31 02:17:55 2014 No.4720701 File: 44 KB, 681x436, 345345345345.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Which is better: >Science Fiction >Lord of the RIngs FTFY

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 31 02:18:53 2014 No.4720704 File: 32 KB, 600x450, 1395265863582.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>4720699 I do. YOU'RE TALKING TO ONE WELCOMETOCYBERPUNK PUNK

Anonymous Mon Mar 31 02:29:53 2014 No.4720727

>>4720692
but every fantasy is the same.

>hero from buttfuck nowhere
>mr. wizard offers a chance to leave the farm
>adventure
>sees princess
>fights bad guy
>wants to quit
>princess gets kidnapped
>slays dragon
>happy forever

monomyth central bro. Mono. myth. central. bro.

Anonymous Mon Mar 31 02:33:53 2014 No.4720734
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>>4720727

Yeah, yeah...hero's journey..yeah yeah.. point taken.

However, I still think there's room for deeper symbolic value in fantasy. Hellboy, while a mediocre franchise in my opinion, at least heads in the right direction.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 31 02:35:53 2014 No.4720739 >>4720734 swords vs ray guns >obviously ray guns win

Anonymous Mon Mar 31 02:40:53 2014 No.4720747

>>4720692
>Science fiction has a less timeless quality to it

If it's well written this doesn't make any difference, I think. If the ideas that went into it are sound and it's entertaining/interesting then (at the absolute worst) you can read it as a piece of "alternate universe" fiction.

>If the fantasy doesn't lose appeal over time

For me the entire genre (Tolkien included) hit a wall a very, very long time ago. >>4720727 is right -- it's repetitive, trite, and boring stuff designed only to sell video games and special effects-heavy movies.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 31 02:44:53 2014 No.4720757 Fantasy, for my money's worth. That's based purely on what I enjoy more though. Neither genre does anything new and impressive on a regular enough basis to say one is better than the other.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 31 02:54:54 2014 No.4720775 >>4720727 >ever following the monomyth at all Why are fantasy writers so fucking gay?

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 31 02:59:53 2014 No.4720784 >>4720666 Ha, I remember that thread.

Anonymous Mon Mar 31 03:00:56 2014 No.4720785

>>4720666
Good Sci-fi will always be superior to good Fantasy.
Good Sci-fi is obviously the one that is written by idle and broke PhDs.

>>4720747
Nah, breh. The problem with Fantasy is that most writers that do fantasy aren't creative or smart at all.
That's why they tend to stick to conventions and formulas while working with the most versatile subgroup of literature.

It's like, when you are handed putty and the only things you do are a couple of balls and logs, a thing that sort of looks like an animal, and a penis.
That's your average fantasy writer.

Anonymous Mon Mar 31 03:11:59 2014 No.4720813

>>4720785
>most writers that do fantasy aren't creative or smart at all.

I think we're pretty much agreeing here. You think the genre sucks because its writers suck; I think it sucks because it's run out of ideas (and therefore attracts only bad writers).

Now I'm beginning to wonder -- are there, or have there ever been, any well-written fantasy books at all, apart from (maybe) Tolkien? Is the entire genre basically airport fiction for bullied teenage boys?

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 31 03:23:59 2014 No.4720831 >>4720666 A mix of both, of course, Lord Satan.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 31 03:28:20 2014 No.4720838 >>4720813 Gene wolfe There's a few more but icbf it honestly depends on the writer, their work will suck no matter what symbols they decide to use

Anonymous Mon Mar 31 03:29:20 2014 No.4720841

>>4720813
Like I said in my post, one of the drawbacks of fantasy is that it has total freedom, and this can be too much for some people; however, only a couple of ideas sell because of preconceptions and autistic fantasy fans that need things to be "believable".

>are there, or have there ever been, any well-written fantasy books at all, apart from (maybe) Tolkien?
I have no idea.
Whenever I see a fantasy book's cover and it has any dragons, people in robes, people in armors, people inside/around castles, New Zealand, castles, beautiful elves, lights being casted, terrible orcs, a sword, a staff, a boy cowering from a large figure; I just forget it exists.

Moomin might count, though.

>Is the entire genre basically airport fiction for bullied teenage boys?
I hope not, but when ASOIAF is one the most praised serials, the horizon looks bleak.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 31 03:39:06 2014 No.4720861 >>4720785 >Good Sci-fi will always be superior to good Fantasy. What a silly thing to say.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 31 03:41:06 2014 No.4720868 >>4720861 You think that because there aren't real scientists writing sci-fi anymore.

Anonymous Mon Mar 31 03:46:07 2014 No.4720880
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>>4720841
>Doesn't recognize the greatness of asoiaf
That series isn't purely fantasy anyway, or possibly even predominately fantasy.

As for high praise, look where you are. This board, in its never ending idiocy, completely shits on it.

I will concede that sci fi has a far greater percentage of quality works as a genre.

Anonymous Mon Mar 31 03:48:06 2014 No.4720888

>>4720868
This is a problem, since modern SF authors rarely have a clue of what they're writing about.

One example is Accelerando - Stross constantly uses Artificial Neural Networks as some kind of dumb assistant AI, but in reality ANNs are nothing but classification/labelling algorithms, with heaps of applications in my field bioinformatics (for example, in silico gene discovery).

You just know reading the book that Stross saw ANNs, thought "hey what a cool word I'll steal that" without even bothering to look up the concept in Wikipedia.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 31 03:51:06 2014 No.4720894 File: 39 KB, 384x576, IMG_0420.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>4720880 >the greatness of asoiaf Are you fucking twelve?

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 31 03:52:06 2014 No.4720898 >>4720868 Partly true maybe, but it's just a plain silly comment.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 31 03:54:06 2014 No.4720903 >>4720894 Oh boy, another pleb who only saw plot, action and character offing for the sake of it.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 31 03:54:06 2014 No.4720905 >>4720888 Another example is Bacigapalubibibiwhatever's The Windup Girl, where "genehacked seeds" exist, and half of the entire book is just an exercise in "GM-food is baddddd for you" without even looking at the science.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 31 03:55:06 2014 No.4720906 >>4720903 And couldn't look past the clunky prose.

Anonymous Mon Mar 31 03:56:06 2014 No.4720908
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I've always seen Science Fiction and Fantasy as being two sides of the same coin.

That being said, I personally prefer Science Fiction stories. I found Fantasy interesting when I was a kid because it always seemed much more grandiose and such a spectacle. Science Fiction however, has far more leverage in terms of tackling interesting subject matters and themes.

Both fields have their fair share of great works though either way.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 31 03:56:06 2014 No.4720909 >>4720903 I always complain of the depiction of morals in the books, but eh, whatever.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 31 03:59:06 2014 No.4720913 >>4720908 You sound mature. As someone who never really got into fantasy, what would you recommend as something modern and great? I've read LOTR and a bit of ASOIAF.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 31 04:00:07 2014 No.4720916 Most of Science Fiction now is actually Future Fantasy, which renders this comparison moot.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 31 04:02:06 2014 No.4720918 >>4720894 Please don't ever use that kind of response. It makes you look like some deluded idiot who fancies himself a knowledgeable chap.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 31 04:02:06 2014 No.4720919 Am I the only one who actually kind of liked the Witcher books? (At least the first 4 I've read, the first two were the best). Mind though that I read them in Russian, which is much closer to the original than, say, English.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 31 06:56:53 2014 No.4721159 >>4720666 Fantasy. You can do everything science fiction does using magic and shit, and the technology won't get outdated.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 31 07:09:59 2014 No.4721175 How is this not obvious? It's Science Fiction. Fantasy is a mixture of children's stories and secularized mythology.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 31 07:12:59 2014 No.4721177 >>4721175 all literature is secularised mythology, except for some experimental 2deep4u works

Anonymous Mon Mar 31 07:51:38 2014 No.4721203

I think the premise of SF has more to offer than Fantasy does. The main benefit to Fantasy that I've seen is a modeling of positive behavior like honor and loyalty, but SF is wide open with exploration of the potential of 'what-if' ideas as well as caution about abusing technology, power, etc.

In addition, I can think of numerous SF authors who have had real literary merit and/or have contributed to scientific understanding and progress. I can't think of a Fantasy writer of the overall excellence of Stanisław Lem, for example. And writers like Arthur C. Clarke have informed the public and inspired scientists by treating on geostationary satellites, space elevators, and other real and potential technologies and discoveries.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 31 08:06:33 2014 No.4721217 File: 8 KB, 131x131, 1393232373909.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>4720701 >yfw one book (or book trilogy) is better than the entirety of a genre Step up, sci-fags

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 31 08:12:33 2014 No.4721223 File: 29 KB, 312x475, lem-solaris.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>4721217

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 31 08:19:33 2014 No.4721238 I just laughed harder than I ever have at OP's pic

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 31 08:42:33 2014 No.4721279 File: 61 KB, 300x456, dune.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>4721217

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 31 08:54:33 2014 No.4721290 File: 23 KB, 220x340, we.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>4721217

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 31 08:58:33 2014 No.4721294 File: 166 KB, 480x360, Cat_Burger.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>4721223 Mah nigga.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 31 11:08:58 2014 No.4721475 File: 23 KB, 200x321, left hand of darkness.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>4721217 >misinterpreting >>4720701 this hard >not providing any other decent Fantasy

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 31 11:12:47 2014 No.4721483 Is Book of the New Sun fantasy or sci-fi?

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 31 11:20:45 2014 No.4721506 >>4721475 That's science fiction, though.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 31 11:24:45 2014 No.4721518 >>4721506 I'm aware of that. The claim was that LoTR was better than the whole of SF, and it would appear that all the book covers are being posted as evidence against such a faulty claim. That's why I posted LeGuin.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 31 11:34:46 2014 No.4721542 >>4721203 Too bad those authors don't exist anymore ... All science fiction writers today really write space/science fantasy

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 31 11:35:45 2014 No.4721549 >>4721518 Oh, in that case carrry on! That's actually the book I thought of, too (together with dispossessed).

Anonymous Mon Mar 31 11:49:45 2014 No.4721574

SciFi.

The adventures were grander and the scope unlimited.

Fantasy seems to hit a higher mark for fewer exemplary works, Tolkien being a highlight, while SciFi's average works were better than the fantasy equivalents.

Totally subjective impressions, just how I see it.

The future I feel is a merger, SciFi fantasy. While I don't hold Warhammer 40k up as the hight of literature, they got the theme right.

Frank Herbert managed it as well.

It's especially powerful, giving the reader human characters to identify with, a key ingredient.

The problem with classic SciFi is that its vision compares unfavorably with what modern science and technology are pointing toward. In a world where so many are still trying, and failing, to come to grips with even nineteenth century breakthroughs like evolutionary theory, crafting a story of what things may really be like, and making it appeal to a reasonably sized readership, is out of reach for all but the virtuoso.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 31 11:51:45 2014 No.4721579 If you could recommend 5 sci-fi books to someone new to the genre, what would they be?

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 31 12:09:45 2014 No.4721606 >>4721579 Foundation, by Asimov. The Left Hand of Darkness, by Le Guin. The Forever War, Haldeman. Solaris, Lem. Ubik, good 'ole crazy uncle Dick.

Anonymous Mon Mar 31 12:09:45 2014 No.4721607

I like the mythological aspects of fantasy. Plus, it helps that there have been at least a few fantasy authors who knew how to write. Why are all sci-fi authors such poor writers aesthetically?

Sci-fi imagines futures, oftentimes dystopian, but it's the same stuff you can read from non-fiction futurists. Because sci-fi authors rarely care about style or character-depth, I'd rather just read those non-fiction books.

Fantasy wins.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 31 12:16:45 2014 No.4721623 >>4721606 thanks :)

Anonymous Mon Mar 31 13:51:40 2014 No.4721891

>>4721607
I think fantasy is more along the lines of archetypes in psychological terms and sci-fi is actually story telling. I mean in all reality, sci-fi wins because all fantasy is, is retelling myths, whereas sci-fi is about retelling reality.

Sci-fi is almost like a satirical lens that we can hold the world up to and see our current condition, fantasy tries to do the same things, but most of the time it's about how the protagonist's family is terrible.

Anonymous Mon Mar 31 15:24:25 2014 No.4722111

>>4720666
Okay Lucifer, let me break this down for you.

The value of both Science fiction and fantasy comes from how they perceive and deal with threats.

Its, the reason drama was valued in ancient greece. It presented people with problems before they actually happened, so they'd know how to react when they did.
Now obviously fiction is fiction, Voldemort isn't going to pop up and start zapping people, and so the lesson isn't 'mummys should jump in front of their sons to give Voldemort a weakness'.
Lessons from science fiction and fantasy are far more abstract and need to be actively applied to different situations. Also they may not always work because low and behold, often fantasy and sci fi writers aren't the greatest philosophers who have ever existed.

But basically its like running drills for your mind.
Sci fi might have a slight edge because some deal with scenarios that could potentially happen. I.e first contact.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 31 15:51:25 2014 No.4722163 >>4720916 >speculative fiction rooted in reality is the same as fantasy kek

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 31 16:26:58 2014 No.4722254 >>4720813 Check out Stephen Donaldson. He's among the most original fantasy writers I know. Seconding Gene Wolfe, too.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 31 18:43:39 2014 No.4722786 >>4721290 I loved that book. I read it in the original and it somehow reminded me of the works of Mayakovsky.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 31 18:50:39 2014 No.4722816 File: 80 KB, 400x579, 1059061.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Both.

Anonymous Mon Mar 31 20:26:27 2014 No.4723162

>>4721891
Maybe, but I'm comparing sci-fi not solely with the cliched nondescript orphaned boy becomes hero story, set in a D&D setting, but with the best of fantasy -- Gormenghast, LoTR, Little, Big, The Worm Ouroboros, Lord Dunsany's stories, and the other fantasy writers of their caliber. I've read a considerable amount of sci-fi, having, during my teen years, gone through a sci-fi phase, and though many of the ideas are interesting, though there are some clever commentaries on society, and some caveats worth paying attention to, none of the writers (save for maybe Ursula Le Guin, who also writes fantasy) wrote at a level that could be considered great. Their ideas are impressive; their language, underwhelming. If you're going to get into the business of writing, I'd appreciate you have a greater respect and command for language. The best fantasy writers do. The best sci-fi writers, at least those of which I'm aware, do not.

>>	Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Mon Mar 31 20:28:27 2014 No.4723168 I only read charles dawknis

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 31 20:32:30 2014 No.4723188 >>4720666 Fantasy used to be better, but now it's shit. Science Fiction has overtaken it.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 31 20:37:26 2014 No.4723210 magic realism

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 31 21:35:10 2014 No.4723424 >>4723168 nice funpost

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 31 22:34:08 2014 No.4723670 >>4723210 This. Is 100 years of solitude considered magical realism? I don't know /lit/'s opinion on it, but I love it.

Anonymous Mon Mar 31 22:48:08 2014 No.4723716
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>>4723670
>100 years of solitude
>mfw people around the world think of magical realism as an specie of fantasy
>mfw the same shit as in the novel happens in my country
>mfw 100 years of solitude is just latin american realism and people refuse to believe shit is this crazy

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 31 22:49:08 2014 No.4723719 >>4723716 Don't tell me you're a pig babby.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 31 23:09:10 2014 No.4723797 >>4720704 #REKT

Anonymous Mon Mar 31 23:13:09 2014 No.4723812

>>4723716
I mean scenes like... I've been reading a normal book, fairly entertaining, but grounded in realism. Then a ghost appears without any warning, and everyone strangely behaves like it's a totally normal thing, an everyday occurnce (even though it was a totally realistic novel before) and then it just disappears and is not even mentioned until much later, among other things.
But maybe my understanding of 'magical realism' is wrong.

Anonymous Tue Apr 1 00:33:27 2014 No.4724130

>>4720813
>any well-written fantasy books at all, apart from (maybe) Tolkien?
In my opinion Borges. Although having mostly written short stories, is maybe one of the best writers of fantasy (I would never classify Tlön as sci-fi, for example), although not the "save the princess" fantasy, it is fantasy, a very posmodern and meta fantasy.

PD: I don't use any of those adjectives as trying to say that Borges is a hack or a edgy writer, but in the best possible meaning they could have.

Anonymous Tue Apr 1 00:39:42 2014 No.4724142

>>4723812
>Then a ghost appears without any warning, and everyone strangely behaves like it's a totally normal thing, an everyday occurnce (even though it was a totally realistic novel before) and then it just disappears and is not even mentioned until much later, among other things.

I think that's pretty much the definition of magical realism - "the mundane is extraordinary, and the extraordinary is mundane".

Example from 100 Years Of Solitude: ghosts are OK and normal, but ice shows up and everyone goes
WHAT
THE
FUCK

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 00:45:30 2014 No.4724174 Both have potential to be equally great. However, in fiction, fantasy languishes in the shadow of Lord of the Rings, so sci-fi is easily better.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 00:47:30 2014 No.4724180 I would say I feel like sci fi reaches beyond parroting earlier works a bit more often but both have great potential

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 00:48:32 2014 No.4724187 Why there isn't a book with paladins using lasgun rifles?

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 00:51:31 2014 No.4724199 >>4724187 You mean War hammer?

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 00:53:28 2014 No.4724208 >>4724199 >uwotm8 Call me a pleb I only heard Warhammer once when someone said starcraft is a ripoff of warhammer. So, does Warhammer has minotaurs driving time machines?

Anonymous Tue Apr 1 00:53:31 2014 No.4724207

>>4724142
Ice in the fucking Costa would be the wierdest shit ever to a colombian, exept in the Sierra Nevada de Santa Marta, because you know, "nevada" means something like "with snow" in spanish.

I know guys, this post is autistic as hell, I'm going to bed.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 00:56:30 2014 No.4724217 >>4724208 I don't think Warhammer has minotaurs, or time machines. Same goes for Warhammer 40k, which has paladin-like space marines with lasgun rifles.

Anonymous Tue Apr 1 02:04:16 2014 No.4724426

Sci fi feels dated because at this point in time, anyone with an education realizes that manned interstellar space travel won't be practical for centuries, if ever, and we're unlikely to ever meet an intelligent alien species. Yet sci fi is still dominated by the space opera and spaceships with a multispecies crew.

I'd like to read some sci fi that's more fresh and full of new ideas- but please, not fucking Accelerandro.

Anonymous Tue Apr 1 02:14:24 2014 No.4724449

Depends.
Science Fiction is prone to give social constructs and institutions a cognitive glance and can therefore be powerfully transformative.
Fantasy, on the other hand, can be allegorical and deal with deep seeded societal motivations, etc.
Really depends on the author and his or her ability.

Anonymous Tue Apr 1 02:18:32 2014 No.4724463

>>4724426
Those are just shitty space operas mainly inspired by Star Trek and Battlestar, not sci-fi.

If you're wondering about why sci-fi took as much of a hit as fantasy, that's because we live in an era when pretty much anything feels possible and at our grasp.
There's already a cloth designed to avoid light for invisibility, we have computers that are smaller than pocketbooks, theoretical physics are already dabbling with the origin of the universe itself.

What could you possibly put on a sci-fi novel that would impress people and inspire scientists today?

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 02:20:32 2014 No.4724471 If sociology is a science, are Brave New World and 1984 sci-fi?

Anonymous Tue Apr 1 02:26:30 2014 No.4724480

>>4724142
What I like about that is that indeed facilitates this feeling of wonder in the most unexpected things. Reading a description of ice from the point of view of someone to whom ice is a magical thing really makes it feel that way and you even start to wonder whether this is just ice or everyone is fucking with you.

Anonymous Tue Apr 1 02:29:30 2014 No.4724487

>>4724463
Well, as for me, Sci-fi is interesting and should be read not for the new technologies themselves (at least at this point of time), but rather for the societal, moral, philosophical and maybe even religious implications, arising from such technological changes.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 02:36:30 2014 No.4724509 >>4724480 Nah, dude. It was fucking ice. My father got to live during that time and met gypsies that carried ice around. Poor country people used to shit themselves over ice.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 02:43:31 2014 No.4724520 >>4724509 I know, I just love how the way these things are described makes you believe they are wonderful, too. Well, at least it did it for me.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 02:45:30 2014 No.4724523 >>4724520 Ice is pretty amazing, tho.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 02:50:30 2014 No.4724528 >>4724523 I like you

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 05:36:48 2014 No.4724815 >>4724528 I am not that person, but I would also like to be liked for liking ice. I think it's very nice when placed in a drink.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 05:39:48 2014 No.4724821 >>4724815 I agree with you, friend.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 06:12:57 2014 No.4724879 >>4724821 friendship is wonderful :D

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 08:30:50 2014 No.4725071 >>4724879 Any sufficiently advanced friendship is indistinguishable from magic.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 10:37:26 2014 No.4725356 >>4720868 Off the top of my head Alastair Reynolds is or rather was a scientist, but writes full time now.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 1 20:00:20 2014 No.4727276 both

Anonymous Tue Apr 1 20:19:20 2014 No.4727373
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I guess fantasy is harder to write because in scifi only the end of the universe is the limit. in fantasy you have to build up a believable world that goes beyond the wise king on the throne and the hero in shiny armour defeating the evil dragon. plus you need good origins and lore for pretty much everything (why is the king's name Herald Fartdragon the Wise?) plus there is one huge problem: magic.
all this things in addition with incredible lazy and shitty authors pretty much ruined fantasy (I'm looking at you Hohlbein). I guess they didn't even try anymore because everything will be measured with lotr.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 03:36:56 2014 No.4728734 bump

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 05:00:48 2014 No.4728887 so far I thin sci-fi is winning.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 05:51:45 2014 No.4728968 >>4728887 well I thick fantasy is

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 05:53:45 2014 No.4728973 >>4728968 tipkip

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 06:32:06 2014 No.4729046 >litterally trying to debate the subjective matter of wether fiction with robots in it vs fiction with spells in it is better nothing against either genre but why don't you go back to /r/books?

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 07:04:06 2014 No.4729108 >>4720813 I like Brandon Sanderson's books I'm reading words of radiance at the moment I'm enjoying this universe he's painting, even if I am seeing a lot of similarities to the mistborne books.

Anonymous Wed Apr 2 19:58:45 2014 No.4730871

>>4724528
:^)

>>4724815
I don't just like ice because of its applications.
Its properties are what make it amazing.

>>4727373
What angers me the most about fantasy is that everybody makes it fucking medieval.
Everytime.
It's like they can fathom another period having fantasy.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 20:12:45 2014 No.4730925 >>4730871 *can't

Anonymous Wed Apr 2 20:15:45 2014 No.4730939

Depends.
Personally, I like low fantasy where the magic, prophecies and mythical creatures are just hinted at and serve merely as world building or are nothing but legends storywise.

I fancy a medieval or pseudo historical setting but the biggest mistake in the genre is either trying to rip off Tolkien or attempting to be extra gritty and subversive and ending up writing the equivalent of a grimdark badfic.
In both cases, it just reads as a bad DnD session.

Never been huge on sci-fi but I dig some steampunk at times.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 20:17:45 2014 No.4730948 >>4729046 Oh ho ho so clever much funny

Anonymous Wed Apr 2 20:23:45 2014 No.4730962

>>4730871
>What angers me the most about fantasy is that everybody makes it fucking medieval.
it's not medieval but a time before the world got so complex as today (even though this is of course an illusion). just look at lotr: one of the main attraction is the simple black and white/ good - evil. everything is simple, even the weapons are simple. and there is still a place for honour and gallantry. it's simple escapism, so no need to get angry.

Anonymous Wed Apr 2 20:43:45 2014 No.4731022

>>4730962
Nah, dude.
What angers me is that there's so much potential being wasted on fantasy.

Without the constraints given by reality you can tell any story, literally anything, but most fantasy authors just write HURR FARM FITE DIM LORD DURR KNITES KIL DRAGQUEEN.
It just fucking hideous to skim through any bookstore's fantasy section.

Anonymous Wed Apr 2 20:48:45 2014 No.4731038

>>4731022
It's being wasted on epic fantasy, but even then, modern works tend to have a different scope and focus, despite inheriting the name. I agree that the fantasy section is trash, but a huge chunk of it is hiding in literature and all the trash of what's there are Tolkien clones from the fucking 70s. GRRM, Hobb, and others killed most of that off in the 80s.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 20:48:45 2014 No.4731040 >>4731022 What drives me nuts is that their medieval settings aren't even accurate. I'm not even talking about the dragons, wizards and elves, their medieval knowledge just sucks hairy balls.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 20:56:07 2014 No.4731066 >>4720685 YA?

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 20:58:06 2014 No.4731073 >>4731066 >YA Yippee! Adolescence!

Anonymous Wed Apr 2 20:59:06 2014 No.4731077

>>4731040
I guess that is because they refuse to acknowledge the role of Catholicism during the middle ages.
After you learn a little about it, having no church anywhere feels alien.

>>4731038
>GRRM
Aw, hell no. Fuck off nigga.
>Hobb
>Assassin's Apprentice
This one sounds like a normal novel rather than another by numbers fantasy shitfest.
Pretty cool.

But my main gripe is why they can't lay off the medieval setting?
A friend lent me The Way of Shadows because he likedi have no idea why, and even if it was about magical ninjas it was still fucking medieval.
It could've been urban contemporary, or in a modern setting during colonialism, or whatever but no, medieval it must be.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 21:03:06 2014 No.4731092 >>4720905 But it is bad for you. GM food causes increased resistance to anti-biotics.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 21:09:06 2014 No.4731112 >>4721542 Yay for over generalization.

Anonymous Wed Apr 2 21:12:06 2014 No.4731119

>>4731077
>But my main gripe is why they can't lay off the medieval setting?
First of all, Way of Shadows is edgier than a box of razorblades and written like hot diarrhea.

On to bigger things. Why can't they lay off of it? They can, and do, it just all tends to look the same when there's no electricity. Kingkiller chronicles is vaguely post-renaissance as are others that branch further out. It's hard to call all of Mieville sci-fi.

You're reading one specific type of fantasy and seeing it all as the same. It behooves you to read more widely, which is difficult as half the best isn't in the section of the bookstore housing Tolkien.

>GRRM
Nigga, nigga changed fantasy at that time. Show me someone else doing round-robin psychological character profiles and heavy political maneuvering before him.

The fact that you haven't read Robin Hobb tells a lot about how little fantasy you've read. It's excellent and has some of the best characters ever, but hits half the book of Tough Guide to Fantasyland.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 21:12:06 2014 No.4731120 Same thing Just switch magic with science

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 21:18:06 2014 No.4731139 Clearly the right answer here is neither because both genres are absolute shit

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 21:22:06 2014 No.4731157 Homer was the greatest fantasy author of all time, I can't think of a single scifi author who wrote anything as near as good as The Odyssey. Therefore fantasy wins.

Anonymous Wed Apr 2 21:22:06 2014 No.4731158

>>4731119
GRRM had potential but he blew it when his ego got the best of him and he attempted to become an edgy Tolkien.
He's good at short stories and dynamic plots but he's not cut for world building and once you get past the initial hype, you start to realize he isn't subverting shit and most of his characters are as bland as they come.

Anonymous Wed Apr 2 21:22:06 2014 No.4731159

>>4731119
>Way of Shadows is edgier than a box of razorblades and written like hot diarrhea.
I know. I'm trying real hard to see what he saw in this thing.
I mean, he reads a lot more than me, and not just fantasy.

>Kingkiller chronicles
Isn't that the one about that pissweak hero guy that inflates his exploits through rumors?

>You're reading one specific type of fantasy and seeing it all as the same. It behooves you to read more widely, which is difficult as half the best isn't in the section of the bookstore housing Tolkien.

>Show me someone else doing round-robin psychological character profiles and heavy political maneuvering before him.
Maybe if GRRM didn't fell to every trap made for fantasy authors after the third book I'd give him some credit.

>The fact that you haven't read Robin Hobb tells a lot about how little fantasy you've read.
I'm more of a "literary" fiction guy.
I read old fairytales once in a while, though.

Anonymous Wed Apr 2 21:28:06 2014 No.4731177
File: 880 KB, 1536x2304, image.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>4731157
A small sample of great historical/fantasy works that are of immense literary value:
The Aeneid
The Iliad
The Odyssey
The Divine Comedy
Poetic Edda
The Metamorphoses
The Faerie Queene
Beowulf
Shakespeare's A Midsummer Night's Dream

Scifi writers are you even trying?

Anonymous Wed Apr 2 21:33:06 2014 No.4731198

>>4731159
>I know.
I worry the same thing. It's one thing to be pulp trash, it's another for people to laud it as anything other than the basest of entertainment.

>pissweak hero guy
Until the third book, it's hard to say if people are confusing the writer for the protagonist being an entitled prick who thinks he's clever, but after years of reading shit taking itself too seriously, I enjoyed the joke. It's like If on a Winter's Night... for fantasy in a way. Very specific type of humor

>fairytales
Much more of modern fantasy is closer to fairy tales than anything else. It's kind of the dividing line, with eddas and epics and Tolkien on the other side.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 2 21:52:06 2014 No.4731261 >>4731198 >Much more of modern fantasy is closer to fairy tales than anything else. Any recommendations? I'm pretty much lost on that type of fantasy.

Anonymous Wed Apr 2 21:58:06 2014 No.4731280

>Science fiction has a less timeless quality to it
Tell that to Orwell, m8.

I tend to prefer fantasy, but, as a genre, I think science fiction is better. It can better explore philosophy and society than its fantastical counterpart. In fantasy, there is wonderful escapism. In science fiction, there is a fun-house mirror- it's weird and cool, but in it we see a reflection of ourselves.

Anonymous Wed Apr 2 22:10:06 2014 No.4731310

>>4731261
What little I've read of Mieville was pretty good, Little, Big is god tier to anons with good taste in other things and on my to read list. Brave Story and the Ico novelization by Miyabe are somewhere between the two types of fantasy and enjoyable regardless of being YA. There's the Fables comic, if you're into that.

The problem is a lot of it is or is technically YA or bleeds into magical realism, newer tellings of fairy tales, or general lit and I can't find it unless by accident. Villa Incognito is pretty strange, though not exactly in the vein of a fairy tale. Tales of Moonlight and Rain is japanese fairy tales and ghost stories. I also like Jack stories and Appalachian folktales. Sometimes you can find a fresh telling of one of those somewhere.

If you like dense lit, Gene Wolfe and his Book of the New Sun will make up for all the crap in both sci-fi and fantasy.

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/lit/ - Literature