/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.4682638]

So let me get this straight.

These three rich kids get together, and develop a theory where more or less everyone that isn't as privileged as them, and can spend their time deciphering their bitch-to-read texts, never had the chance to develop their own identity because society brainwashes them to serve the needs of the capitalist market before they have the chance to, and then force feeds them with "cheap mainstream culture" which makes them even more submissive instead of "challenging" them with the kind of difficult culture only rich kids have the time, and boredom to appreciate, such as Mozart?

In other words, using Marx of all things (the nerve of these guys!), they seem to me to have developed a theory which basically just says that everyone who doesn't live their upper-class kind of life are pathetic, while they themselves rock.

Perhaps this is the reason the Frankfurt School were so unconstructive, never coming up with any concrete solutions to the problems they claimed to be researching, and only revelling revelling in the hopelessness.

[Anonymous No.4682667]

Dialectic of Enlightenment has a dope part on ghosts that anyone can read

[Anonymous No.4682689]

>>4682638
>unconstructive
>solutions

yeah well you are part of that same society my friend, that modern citizen who is expecting people to tell him what to do and to solve his problems for him.

we are all together in this shit, the harder your hit to others the harder it comes back... dont try to blame others for the shit youve been put into, cause that solves nothing.

[Anonymous No.4682715]

>>4682638
Didn't Lukacs end up saying that only plebby realism was revolutionary and that 'difficult' avant-garde stuff was reactionary?

Mind you, the rest disagreed with that.

[Anonymous No.4682719]

>>4682638
the economy is a spook
capitalism is a spook
liberate yourself
read stirner

[Anonymous No.4682725]

>>4682719
I haven't read Stirner, but judging by his appearences here I would be surprised if 'Stirner', 'liberation', and 'yourself' were not also spooks.

[Anonymous No.4683014]

Where's the best place to start with Adorno, /lit/?

>inb4 cultural marxism
>inb4 jews
>inb4 whatever the fuck else

[Anonymous No.4683058]

Seems accurate imo.

[Anonymous No.4683065]

hey OP, can you cite some frankfurt texts that are troubling you?

[Anonymous No.4683069]

>>4683065
>implying this isn't disinfo

[Anonymous No.4683087]

>>4683014
Dialectic of Enlightenment. The first two chapters are a genealogy of enlightenment/intrumental rationality which is a bit tough to get your head around and read through but is pretty much the foundation for his critical theory.

[Anonymous No.4683093]

>>4683065
Not OP, but Theses on the Concept of History is just about the most opaque, obscure philosophy I've read (and that's counting early Heidegger).

[Anonymous No.4683096]

>>4683087
I second this.

And the theses layout makes it easier to take in as tidbits of thoughts.

[Anonymous No.4683098]

>>4682719
the "self" is a spook
"liberation" is a spook

you are so far up your enlightenment ass. pls go.

[Anonymous No.4683106]

>>4683087
Thanks. I actually own it, but I've been putting off reading it. Think I'll crack into it now.

[Anonymous No.4683117]

>plebeian apologist for mass culture detected

[Anonymous No.4683120]

>>4683087
>>4683096
yeah and then go for horkheimer's eclipse of reason only b/c its so overlooked for how good it is

[Anonymous No.4683126]

>>4682638
the homogenization of the human race is their end game

[Anonymous No.4683127]

>>4683093
>walter benjamin
>frankfurt

really? i didn't think that.

[Anonymous No.4683143]

>>4683093
>Theses on the Concept of History is just about the most opaque, obscure philosophy I've read (and that's counting early Heidegger).

Wait, what? Are you sure you're thinking of the right work? Anyone curious can read it here, btw: http://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/benjamin/1940/history.htm

It's really not that bad. Wouldn't put it on Heidegger level at all.

[Anonymous No.4683152]

[Anonymous No.4683170]

The Nazi's killed (you know what I mean) fucking Walter Benjamin yet these fucking poisonous kikes managed to get away and spread their garbage unopposed.
Their is no justice.

[Anonymous No.4683173]

>>4683152
hehehe

[Anonymous No.4683189]

>>4683170
The Nazis killed fascism for the rest of us; feminist national socialism could have been beautiful

[Anonymous No.4683191]

>>4683143
Heidegger's difficulty stems from his playing with German and the inability to accurately translate into English and the early systematic approaches to what he would later realize is not apt to be systematically analyzed. It's pretty easy to parse out essays like The Origin of the Work of Art, Question Concerning Technology, and The Thing.

Benjamin's Theses, however, is obtuse because of the weird marxist, mystical, sparse language. It's Nietzschean aphorism infused with obscure jewish theology. I think I have a grasp over it now, but each time I read it, I come to a new insight/modified interpretation of it.

[Anonymous No.4683194]

OP here. I think it's funny right-extremists blame these guys for anything, when they're reactionary elitists. They should be like bros. Maybe it's like in second grade, when a boy likes a girl, and then steals her pens and shit.

[Anonymous No.4683233]

>>4682638

They were adifferent sort of marxists that were largely ignored by the student movements of the 60's and 70's mostly because of the reasons you cited. I think it was Jameson who said that the 60's belonged to Marcuse but the 00's and onwards belonged to Adorno.(culture industry)
Take a step back and consider the projects they were involving themslves to. Adorno especially was greatly involved with aesthetics, music theory, cultural theory and enlightenment metaphysics. The uniqueness of their project of marying Marxism with aesthetic eclecticism was extremely novel and it is very similar to Nietzsches aproach to life.
Adorno and Horkheimer were as elitist as much as their razor sharp criticism allowed them to be, yet from reading the Dialectic of Enlightement I got the impression that they weren't just revelling in pessimism but rather offering new ways to think about myth, the enlightenment and culture, again in avery similar vein with Nietzsche, but without the social and political naiveties implicit in him.

[Anonymous No.4683234]

How's One-Dimensional Man as an intro to the Frankfurt School? I know it's super-late, but it also seems like the most pop thing any of them produced.

[Anonymous No.4683246]

>>4683117

Pretty much this.

[Anonymous No.4683259]

>In any event, the "documentary," soon available on the net, spawned a number of condensed textual versions, which were reproduced on a number of radical right-wing sites. These in turn led to a welter of new videos now available on You Tube, which feature an odd cast of pseudo-experts regurgitating exactly the same line. The message is numbingly simplistic: all the ills of modern American culture, from feminism, affirmative action, sexual liberation and gay rights to the decay of traditional education and even environmentalism are ultimately attributable to the insidious influence of the members of the Institute for Social Research who came to America in the 1930's.

[Anonymous No.4683268]

>>4683194
Right-wing extremist here.

Adorno was a cool guy, he was just very traumatized by the Holocaust so he tried to pathologize everything that he considered could bring such a thing again. Outside that, he wouldn't be out of place on /pol/ calling everything he didn't like "degenerate".

Marcuse was pure evil, though. And the rest i don't really know much about.

[Anonymous No.4683273]

The stranglehold of Frankfurt School philosophy has over academia, and thus society, is what will destroy the West.

[Anonymous No.4683279]

>>4683273
You severely overestimate academia's influence on society.

[Anonymous No.4683280]

>>4683273
good

[Anonymous No.4683286]

>>4683259
>>4683273
Heh.

[Anonymous No.4683288]

>>4683273

Spengler is actually part of the tradition of cultural criticism that the Frankfurt School continued.

Adorno actually wrote an essay commending him:

http://www.unz.org/Pub/Encounter-1966jan-00025

[Anonymous No.4683289]

>>4683259
Eh, let them keep on believing it. That way, they'll never see their true enemy until it's too late.

[Anonymous No.4683293]

>>4683273
lel

the frankfurt school has pretty much been ignored as relevant for decades. it's only since the financial crisis and the crisis of capitalism reaching the mainstream that they're being picked up again and hardly in any socially appreciable way. most of the popular discourse around the frankfurt school interestingly enough seems to be happening in the american right-wing, reactionary discourse.

[Anonymous No.4683297]

>>4683279
>"everyone needs a degree"
>everyone goes to university
>everyone gets a good ole fashion brain scrubbing for at least four years
Yeah you're right, the capitalist regime has totally neutered academia.

>>4683288
Spengler studied a variety of civilizations and charted their rise and fall, trying to determine a pattern that could apply to the West.

Frankfurt is ivory tower social engineering, or at least the justification for it.

[Anonymous No.4683302]

>>4683293
There's no discourse about the Frankfurt School in the Internet reactionary discourse. It's just another codeword for "teh JOOZ"

[Anonymous No.4683304]

They're basically not marxist in the political sense. They just recognized Marx was too good to ignore when it came to analysis.

[Anonymous No.4683309]

>>4683279
The academia has more influence than all the other institutions it criticizes because it doesn't control.

[Anonymous No.4683310]

>>4683302
Yes I agree, anyone who criticizes Frankfurt philosophy is a neo-nazi strawman.

[Anonymous No.4683311]

You can't make a meaningful critique of a viewpoint from within that viewpoint. It's the reason you need academia to exist in relation to mass culture, why you need an analyst to exist in relation to an analysand, and why you need the other to exist in relation to the self. The Frankfurt School could criticize mass culture, but they could only provide others with the tools needed to dismantle academic culture. Unfortunately, no movement has really had the guts to take up those tools, although I'm sure one will when institutional and economic realities create a group with the means and incentive to.

[Anonymous No.4683317]

>>4683289
I've seen it but there is nothing i can really do.

[Anonymous No.4683321]

>>4683310
To be fair, I never seem to see any self-proclaimed right-wingers on here who even pretend to be well-read. It's mostly just shitposting.

[Anonymous No.4683326]

>>4683289

>Eh, let them keep on believing it. That way, they'll never see their true enemy until it's too late.

lol I was reading somewere that now right-wingers are re-reading and interpeting Gramsci again through their own lens.
It would make sense, since Gramsci is basicaly a Machiavelli on steroids trained by the KGB and with the mind of a Sith-lord.

[Anonymous No.4683333]

>>4683297
>>"everyone needs a degree"
>>everyone goes to university
>>everyone gets a good ole fashion brain scrubbing for at least four years

What exactly are the Marxist lies that get beaten into these poor students' defenceless heads?

[Anonymous No.4683340]

>>4683326
I wait for the day when we will claim guys like Foucault to our purposes too.

It could be useful.

[Anonymous No.4683342]

>>4683321
Before you jump on me, I don't identify as either Republican or Democrat. But if the right-wing vice is ignorance, the left-wing vice is arrogance without a doubt.

The right endeavors to keep society in stasis, if not revert to the last state of nostalgia. The left is just an engine of social engineering without the ability to see any fault in itself.

[Anonymous No.4683343]

>>4683152

i love these /pol/tard images. i wonder what adorno would have said about them and their context

[Anonymous No.4683353]

>>4683340
Hop on sexuality as a historical construct. Why be proud of being gay when it's simply the product of a specific set of economic, social, and cultural processes?

[Anonymous No.4683355]

>>4683342
>the left-wing vice is arrogance without a doubt

How can you blame them when they have been winning for the last 200 years?

>The right endeavors to keep society in stasis

Which is why we will keep losing. Keeping society in stasis now means keeping the last victory of the left. We don't need conservatism, we need reaction.

[Anonymous No.4683364]

I guess my question for the people in this thread so bent on defending Frankfurt ideology and its descendants is, how will society survive without a sense of common purpose or unity? How will philosophies dedicated to the erosion of traditionally-derived common purpose and the creation of a "new" common purpose be sure to succeed, and why are they needed?

>>4683355
What exactly is "reaction"? I see it thrown around a lot, but I've never seen anyone explain it beyond, "It's just a neonazi front, ignore it!"

[Anonymous No.4683368]

>>4683343

Pay you five bucks if you email Habermas about internet ideology.

[Anonymous No.4683369]

>>4683342
Just calling it as I see it on 4chan. I'm sure there are well-read right-wingers out there...

Mind you, most /pol/ stuff is the greatest example of Poe's Law. It'd be fun to try and work out the ratio of earnestness to trolling in something like >>4683343

[Anonymous No.4683372]

>>4683343
Well, this is kind of true regarding Marcuse. He did try to mix Marx and Freud (butchering both) and this gave rise to 60s counterculture which is the basis of modern day SJWs. Also his ideas about "repressive" and true tolerance are the basis of political correctness.

Then they lumped the rest just because they are jews too.

[Anonymous No.4683399]

>>4683355

>implying the 80s and neoliberalism didn't happen
>implying there hasn't been a steady rollback of progressive achievements since then

you are a bum and you doom yourself by the title you give yourself, forever an insult

>>4683368

lololkk

>>4683372

nah bs, history was moving that way by itself, he was just commentating at the time, he didn't start anything. the counterculture was completely averse to theory anyway, they couldn't even understand it if they tried.

also, adorno was against the 60s movement which made him very unpopular with students at the time, called it "reactionism", merely knee jerk reactions without any thought.

[Anonymous No.4683400]

>>4683364
>What exactly is "reaction"?

Rejecting leftist ideology at it's principles: Enlightenment humanism and liberalism. Basically every conservative is just playing the role of a punching bag in the progressist dialectics. That is why guys like Marcuse will always win in the end. Even Hegelian conservative dialects was took over by his radical pupils...

Which is why i said guys like Foucault can be useful.

[Anonymous No.4683408]

>>4683399
I think anon has something more radically rightwing than neoliberalism in mind...

[Anonymous No.4683411]

>>4683400

>basing your politics on what the ancien regime would have thought

lol ok good luck with that

>>4683408

hitler pls

[Anonymous No.4683416]

>>4683399
Neoliberalism failed because it offered only a economical alternative (and not a good one at it), it didn't challenge the cultural hegemony of the left anywhere else.

Who defends it nowadays? No one, you won again.

[Anonymous No.4683418]

>>4683400
>monocle
Damn, radical reaction suddenly looks 50% cooler.

[Anonymous No.4683425]

>>4683321
I saw one reactionary post here that completely wrecked /lit/.

[Anonymous No.4683426]

>>4683194


the methods they pioneered have had wide influence, even if unacknowledged. naturally, the degree of success they (or anyone) find in their projects is the degree to which they divorce from axiomatic left-wing purity (and in later days, dissimulate this fact from their readers).

you can see this dynamic in the very first line of DoE, implying what is essentially a universal phenomena as a mere contingency ('pre-capitalism' then morphs into capitalism-in-being, and the euphemistic tredmill will inevitably roll on in the future) to be overcome. this is the lingering leftist conviction of adorno, an article of faith. it is also why when faced with the intractability of the axiomatic framework, the conviction becomes very hegelian, 'so much the worse for facts', when adherence to the faith ultimately demands a revolt against being itself, nihilism, pessimism, is the inevitable result.

>>4683317


the best part is, the revolution has infact already happened, the shapers of society today are by large majority true believers in essentially revolutionary leftwing axioms (while the rest profess the faith and make sure everyone else does in turn, for fear that they themselves will be called to question). thats the punch line of their railings, the failures of society are their failures.

[Anonymous No.4683427]

>>4683418
>try to wear a cape and monocole
>shit beaten out of you by conservatives

Man fuck

[Anonymous No.4683428]

>>4683425
and that would be?

[Anonymous No.4683429]

>>4683416
>Who defends it nowadays?
Seems to me the advantage of neoliberalism is it doesn't even need a decent ideological defence. It gets all the banks, the guns, and the politicians.

[Anonymous No.4683431]

>>4683411
paysans is such a cute word, almost as much as paisanos
peasant sounds so degrading

[Anonymous No.4683435]

>>4683431
What's the German for peasant?

[Anonymous No.4683438]

>>4683416

>cultural hegemony
>not justice, freedom, equality, etc., i.e. things all real human beans value

keep floggin that dead horse m8

[Anonymous No.4683445]

>>4683438
>all those spooks

Can you even formulate the boundaries and nature of the equality you value?

[Anonymous No.4683447]

>>4683428
Oh shit, I made a spelling mistake. I saw one poster. As in guy who opened a topic with the title "French revolution something somethings sucks". One half of lit was insulting him while other got their arguments wrecked. I remember something about technological progress not equating to social progress and that the latter is pretty much an illusion or something. It was quite a while ago.

The point being, saying that right wingers are uneducated and come here to shitpost has as much credibility as saying that left wingers come here to shitpost. Being right/conservative doesn't make someone stupid by default.

[Anonymous No.4683449]

>>4683438


yes, because things like 'justice, freedom, equality' are certainly not ideological and are merely impartial 'practical reality'.

[Anonymous No.4683450]

>>4683438

[Anonymous No.4683454]

>>4683191
>marxist, mystical language
>Nietzschean aphorism infused with obscure jewish theology

Now I'm with the guy who suspected disinfo.

[Anonymous No.4683457]

>>4683416
>political sanity
>'muh Blood'
>'muh Spirit'
>'muh teleology'

[Anonymous No.4683458]

>>4683445

nope, but lock me up and i'll know what freedom is, do me injustice and i'll know what justice demands, discriminate against me on unreasonable grounds and i will know what equality is. so it is with all people. your spookism is just political nihilism, an excuse not to commit or act for good.

>>4683449

so let us spit on these things because if you look at them too closely they get fuzzy? stay in the ivory tower

[Anonymous No.4683462]

>>4683259
i always thought the frankfurt school thing was oddly specific.

[Anonymous No.4683464]

>>4683435
Bauer? I had to look it up, but this is the same word Heidegger uses for the farmer woman in OotWoA, isn't it? It's not as romantic :(

[Anonymous No.4683465]

>>4683438
>justice, freedom, equality
>not ideological constructs

[Anonymous No.4683467]

>>4683127
He wasn't oficially in the Frankfurt School, but his ideas have some similarities and influences on the Frankfurt School

[Anonymous No.4683468]

>>4683297
>Frankfurt is ivory tower social engineering, or at least the justification for it.

Can you cite that justification?

[Anonymous No.4683470]

>>4683458

[Anonymous No.4683477]

>>4683426
>the shapers of society today are by large majority true believers in essentially revolutionary leftwing axioms

tell that to the ever-widening wage gap

[Anonymous No.4683478]

>>4683447
>The point being, saying that right wingers are uneducated and come here to shitpost has as much credibility as saying that left wingers come here to shitpost
Nah, rightwing shitposting is an easily noticeable 4chan tradition. Leftwing shitposting is... barely even existent. I dunno, maybe when the different types on /lit/ are trolling each other, occasionally?

> Being right/conservative doesn't make someone stupid by default
Agreed.

[Anonymous No.4683481]

>>4683426
>implying what is essentially a universal phenomena as a mere contingency

great argument couched in academic nonsense. "lel let me just say that something is universal without justification"

[Anonymous No.4683485]

>>4683447
I guess we should just trust your vague recollection of a fuzzy memory, then.

[Anonymous No.4683491]

Adorno has some good insights every now and then but he's pants on head retarded a lot of the time.

Conflating love of the body and the drive to exercise your own body as your desire to manipulate and do violence upon the bodies of others? It's amusing that he derives the jewish traditional aversion to athleticism because they are aware that any measuring of the body is inevitably a part of measuring bodies in "coffins."

[Anonymous No.4683493]

>>4683477


i am telling it to that.

what has decades of increasing leftist triumph actually done for, say, the black community?

less than nothing, they have infact been getting worse off by the year.

[Anonymous No.4683495]

>>4683467
What are those similarities exactly? And many writers influenced the Frankfurt school, big deal.

[Anonymous No.4683499]

>>4683493
If the poor are doing increasingly badly, in what sense is a
>leftist triumph
happening?

[Anonymous No.4683503]

>>4683499


in the sense of a gramscian march through institutions, cultural hegemony.

[Anonymous No.4683508]

>>4683411
If the Ancien Regime was so bad, they wouldn't need to enforce it at guy point at the Vendee, at Navarre, at Naples, etc

You know that, because nowadays the left loves the same peasant communities you destroyed in these revolutions. See the Zapatistas. Of course, they are more palatable to you when they use marxist phraseology instead of "Dios, Patria, Fueros y Rey".
The carlists of Spain wouldn't fight it either.

[Anonymous No.4683509]

>>4683493
you said the shapers of society have adopted leftwing axioms, but what you really meant to say is that they adopted the *appearance* of those adopting those axioms. because if they had actually adopted them, they would act accordingly.

so "leftist triumph" never actually occurred.

[Anonymous No.4683512]

>>4683503
>march through institutions
>still have center-right population and radical right wind administration

uhhh

[Anonymous No.4683515]

>>4683509


the point is they CANT *act accordingly* because its IMPOSSIBLE, the more strident the attempts to do so, the greater the ruin.

[Anonymous No.4683516]

>>4683495
Benjamin maintained regular correspondence with Adorno. He was also novel in his analysis of mass culture and the mass society arising out of late capitalism.

He and the frankfurt school differ though in the prognostic of it. Adorno sees mass culture as entirely dominating and the individual is left with little agency. Benjamin, however, thought there was a revolutionary potential in mass society and in mass culture.

Benjamin is much more of a traditional marxist. Adorno pretty much left behind the tenants of marxism (proletariat, revolution).

[Anonymous No.4683518]

>>4683478
Well, this is actually kind of interesting. In the current political dialectical system, the right constantly loses more and more ground to the left which becomes more invasive. Which is why there's been such a radical reversal within (for example) feminism. Couple that with the fact that certain elements of the right are taboo in the mainstream society (i.e. Hitler) and you can easily see why rightwing shitposting is so much fun. They're either stupid neocons or absolute evil.
But it scares me how shit is getting more and more serious and how actual fun is being sucked away from 4chan. For example, /r9k/ used to be this little creative space for tons of different funny and interesting greentext stories, now I rarely see a greentext thread.

>>4683485
Thanks bro.

[Anonymous No.4683520]

>>4683499
Maybe because leftist triumph wasn't meant to help the poor anyway? Have you ever thought that?

I mean, Marx himself said that the whole point of emancipation was not about increasing material prosperity anyway, but makes men regain control over both his creation and his "species-essence", whatever he meant with that.

[Anonymous No.4683522]

>>4683503
Pretty sure it's still capitalism that has the cultural hegemony.

[Anonymous No.4683528]

>>4683515
it's nice that you believe that, but it should be made clear that you haven't actually demonstrated that to be true.

[Anonymous No.4683533]

>>4683522
Capitalism is just another son of the Enlightenment anyway.

[Anonymous No.4683535]

>>4683522


'capitalism', like most social phenomena, is indeed inherently right wing (in the sense of forming hierarchy), but it is also highly flexible, if people want a rope to hang themselves with, it can be sold to them, you feel?

[Anonymous No.4683537]

>>4683520
>whatever he meant with that
Whatever else he meant, he meant smashing capitalism. And yet the years of 'increasing leftist triumph' seem to be the years in which that has got further and further away as a possibility.

[Anonymous No.4683538]

>>4683520
>Maybe because leftist triumph wasn't meant to help the poor anyway? Have you ever thought that?

There's no reason to believe that, though. To adopt principles because they benefit your public image and then to act opposite to those principles is obviously not uncommon in politics.

[Anonymous No.4683544]

>>4683343
What's wrong with Adderall?

[Anonymous No.4683545]

Anonymous 03/20/14(Thu)19:47 UTC-5 No.4683443
Infinity is the principle of continuous sequence. One is a unit. From one, two cannot be derived without infinity. For if a sequence were finite then it would be delimited as a kind. So, the entirety of the finite sequence would be contained within a unit. This generates a vicious regress (how did we divide the unit, etc.?). So, infinity must be intuitive in order for the concept of sequence and for numbers to be possible.

In the experience of the senses, there is no such thing as infinity, but instead infinity is required for there to be a sequence of units (each unit being defined as being between one and infinity; that is to be defined by what is prior to it). So, from the distinction of units comes the cognitive distinction of things (a rock, a tree, etc.) one from another. Without such distinction, humans would be merely sentient, yet humans are reflective inasmuch as they can render distinctions.

Finally, it seems that humans, possessing such intuitions, must be part of a nature which is entirely prior to any description of nature (as being physical or mental, etc.). Inasmuch as humans only directly experience their own thoughts and physical percepts, this nature must be transcendent (inasmuch as it is not limited by physicality itself or mentality itself) and in being transcendent it is not limited. So, this nature is infinite in regard to what it may or may-not be. Infinity is only positive as a quality, therefore this nature may only exist infinitely without lacking anything.

Eternity, if understood as being timelessness (rather than a continuous duration of finite moments) exists without a sequence of moments. Now, it follows that he who is able to grasp the present moment (that is what is isolated from a preceding or a succeeding moment) is able to grasp his own nature.

A) I am a unit.
B) preceded and succeeded by infinitely other units.
C) Defined by the sequence.
D) Generating the sequence intuitively.
E) Therefore I am God.

Supplicate.

[Anonymous No.4683550]

>>4683533
So you're redefining 'the left' to mean 'global capitalism'?

OK, under those terms I'll agree with you. The left just keeps on winning.

[Anonymous No.4683551]

>>4683491

do you remember where its from?

its not so farfetched if you consider the context in which it was written. think of the idolisation of the body under nazism (pic related). there the body, ever increasing its own powers, becomes a tool to dominate other less powerful bodies. the body is mechanised and put into a wider mechanical process of domination.

maybe it doesn't apply to us any more (though what could we say about gym culture these days?), but it is relevant as a critique of the way bodies were thought of/used back then.

>>4683508

if the ancien regime wasn't so bad there wouldn't have been a revolution.

yeah nostalgia exists...

[Anonymous No.4683556]

>>4683535
Every institution ends up with a hierarchy. That's Robert Michel's iron law of oligarchy and not even anarcho-syndicalist labour unions escape that.

[Anonymous No.4683558]

>>4683518
The same thing happened with /new/ a few years ago, which is why it was deleted. Of course moot actually cared about this place back then, unlike now

[Anonymous No.4683576]

>>4683551
>if the ancien regime wasn't so bad there wouldn't have been a revolution.

But the Ancient Regime was bad for the people who brought the revolution. Middle class intellectuals, radical bourgeoisie, you know, the same people who want a revolution today (and in any age).

[Anonymous No.4683580]

>>4683544
Widespread adderall prescription is a symptom of the intense and prolonged investment of desire and of mental and libidinal energies in labor, the collapse of the western mind. They could have had viagra there but /pol/ isn't as concerned about such things.

[Anonymous No.4683587]

>>4683537
Marx couldn't predict the extent of globalization or the massive growth of finance capital. Plus it turns out that recurrent crises only strengthen capitalism, not weaken it.

[Blood Rainbow !!6ueS4TJTaQw No.4683592]

sounds like OP is hella jealous of that NEGATIVE DIALEKTIK ya feel me dawg

[Anonymous No.4683593]

>>4683576

yes undoubtedly, but that doesn't change the fact that injustice and inequality was so prevalent that something radical had to change. the way in which that change occurred was highly flawed.

Arendt argues that the American Revolution was more successful than the French because it didn't degenerate into terror or liquidisation of the middle class. instead it set up lasting institutions which preserved the values which the revolution was based on (at least for a while anyway).

[Anonymous No.4683594]

>Max Simon Nordau (born Simon Maximilian Südfeld; July 29, 1849 – January 23, 1923), was a Zionist leader, physician, author, and social critic.
>Nordau's major work Entartung (Degeneration), is a moralistic attack on so-called degenerate art, as well as a polemic against the effects of a range of the rising social phenomena of the period, such as rapid urbanization and its perceived effects on the human body.

Is the concept of 'degeneracy' itself a Jewish lie?

[Anonymous No.4683596]

>>4683580
>prolonged investment of desire and of mental and libidinal energies in labor, the collapse of the western mind

That sounds like Marcuse's performance principle, you know, Eros & Civilization AKA the banner of the 60s student revolution. Isn't emphasis on enlightenment rationality and productive efficiency what /pol/ wants and Adderall supplements?

[Anonymous No.4683598]

>>4683587
If he was so wrong why do you keep adding epicycles to his theory?

[Anonymous No.4683606]

>>4683594

>degeneracy
>bad

see 224

http://nietzsche.holtof.com/Nietzsche_human_all_too_human/sect5_signs_of_higher_and_lower_culture.htm

[Anonymous No.4683609]

>>4683593
The American Revolution had less philosophers and more peasant proprietors wanting "MUH FREEDOMS", i guess.

[Anonymous No.4683610]

>>4683596
You are spending too much time trying to make sense of that image. The point is right side = BAD and since Adderall is drugs it also = BAD and therefore was caused by Jews.

[Anonymous No.4683612]

>>4683594

And then /pol/ exploded

[Anonymous No.4683615]

>>4683528


difference is an ontological necessity, equality as categorical imperative does not hold, it can only be found absolutely in oblivion (hence, anti-natalism).

finitude is an ontological necessity, beings are always and already using transcendent notions to come to grips with the world. an attempt to 'overcome' religion in an absolute sense is essentially a repudiation of thinking whatsoever. further, the imposition of cultural hegemony, of an 'official religion', is something responsible beings are always and already engaged in. every choice is an assertion of value, values are implicit teleologies, and create implicit hierarchies. hierarchy becomes then not merely inevitable, but necessary and desirable. the more solipsistic (ie, society) rely on received tradition to acquire more transcendent concepts and values, that they could not obtain on their own, without which would be listless and self-destructive (ie, society today, not that there is no tradition [as adorno himself points out] but it is certainly a less transcendent, solipsistic one, and hence its popularity).

[Anonymous No.4683622]

>>4683594
But Nordau was a good jew, like Raymond Aron, Ernest Gellner and Norbert Elias.

I would hid him in my barn.

[Blood Rainbow !!6ueS4TJTaQw No.4683623]

>>4683615
>finitude is an ontological necessity
pffffffffffffffffffffffffft lol

[Anonymous No.4683626]

>>4683609

well the americans start with "muh tea" and ended up with federal constitutionalism. the french start with the universal rights of man and end with monsieur guillotine.

[Anonymous No.4683627]

>>4683596
actually that part was plagiarized from Berardi's Precarious Rhapsody but /pol/ is probably just angsty about children getting psychiatric treatment for anything

[Anonymous No.4683631]

>>4683623


you cant be authentique till youre down with being-towards-death m8.

[Blood Rainbow !!6ueS4TJTaQw No.4683635]

>>4683631
don't u try 2 make fundamentalontologische Wesen out of material-historical conditions you instrumental chucklefuck

[Anonymous No.4683636]

lol

[Anonymous No.4683648]

>>4683635


being will always unravel clever systems and cycles, because it is bigger than they (you) are. they cannot stand on their own.

[Blood Rainbow !!6ueS4TJTaQw No.4683653]

>>4683648
lol look at this guy it's like he hasn't heard that being, pure being is the most immediate category and only the beginnign of logic like OMG

[Anonymous No.4683656]

>>4683648

>democracy
>not deliberative democracy

stay pleb

[Anonymous No.4683658]

>>4683653
muh world spirit

[Anonymous No.4683660]

>>4683609

One side of my family is literally all Appalachian Freemasons and I can tell you that the 'common' nature of e American revolution is nonsense.

They were however affiliated with the Scottish lodges who were affiliated wih lassez faire capitalism as opposed to French and British lodges which later gave birth to socialism.

[Anonymous No.4683661]

>>4683615
>every choice is an assertion of value, values are implicit teleologies, and create implicit hierarchies.

every choice can be either an assertion or assumption of value, the meaning of the value depends on the actors engaging, and implicit hierarchies are referred to indirectly (hence implicit), though not necessarily created (meaning that there is nowhere to locate them and you are free to ignore the implication or act in a way that negates it).

>hierarchy becomes...inevitable
i agree, but not because of your reasoning.

>necessary and desirable
in some cases, yes. but they do not need to remain permanent. they can always be undermined.

>ie, society today
in what way is society today self destructive?

[Blood Rainbow !!6ueS4TJTaQw No.4683665]

>>4683658
brb fucking weltgeist im arsch

[Anonymous No.4683682]

>>4683545

Spinoza bless you. Caute.

[Anonymous No.4683686]

What I never understand about you right wingers, is that you blame the shallow commodified culture... on Marxism, when it's blatantly Capitalism playing to the lowest common denominator, sex, and trying to expand into new blue ocean markets that has been the greatest assault on your "conservative beliefs"

The Left has been dead since the 70s, every aspect of modern culture is Neo-Liberalism built upon Neo-Classical chicago economics.

[Anonymous No.4683691]

>>4683653


A japanese hosso monk and zen master was teaching a class on Lao Ze, known riddler

”Before the class begins, you must adopt a meditation stance and reverence Lao Ze and accept that he was the most enlightened being the world has ever known, even greater than Heraclitus!”

At this moment, a brave, phenomenologist, continental German philosopher who had published over 1500 papers on hermeneutics and understood the necessity of an ontological characterization of human beings and fully supported all deconstruction of metaphysical thinking stood up and held up a rock.

”Does this rock have buddha nature?”

The arrogant professor smirked and smugly replied “mu, you stupid Westerner”

”Wrong. An existential analysis of the rock reveals that it has no language and therefore it is not opened to the disclosure of Being . If it was neither Dasein or not Dasein and its ontological nature, as you say, was indeterminate… then its rock-Being should be a concern to it!”

The monk was visibly shaken, and dropped his bonsai and copy of Tao te Ching. He stormed out of the room reciting those obsolete buddhist sutras. The same sutras buddhists recite for the “souls of the deceased” when they jealously try to devalue responsibility over their finitude from the deserving authentic Daseins. There is no doubt that at this point our monk, Gautama Boddhidarma, wished he had pulled himself up by his bootstraps and become more than an inauthentic onto theological thinker. He wished so much that he had a non metaphysical characterization of truth to reconstruct his ontology over a groundless ground, but he himself had petitioned against it!

The students applauded and all registered with the university of Freiburg that day and accepted Nietzsche as the last and greatest western crypto metaphysician. An eagle named “Ereigenis” flew into the room and perched atop an ancient oak and shed a tear on the now standing reserve of timber. The Ister was read several times, and Being itself showed up and spread existential angst across the country.

The monk lost his tenure and was fired the next day. He died of the technocratic plague nihilism and was tossed into the impossibility of possibilities for eternity.

Ex nihilo omnia
p.s. It rests by changing.

[Anonymous No.4683694]

>>4683587
>Marx couldn't predict the extent of globalization or the massive growth of finance capital.

Lol wut. He fucking talks about it in the Communist Manifesto first chapter.

[Anonymous No.4683708]

>>4683691

thing is, the monk was practically demonstrating the foolishness of sages (as told by Lao Ze) and followed The Way by losing his job and thus taking the lowest position.

[Blood Rainbow !!6ueS4TJTaQw No.4683709]

>>4683691
i giggled

p.s. "changing it rests", Heraclitus; "es gibt kein Satz von Heraklit, was ich nicht in meinem Logik aufgenommen habe" - Hegel

[Anonymous No.4683721]

>>4683691
A dualist Plato scholar philosophy professor and designer of hydroelectric power stations was teaching a class on René Descartes, known metaphysician. ”Before the class begins, you must get on your knees and worship Descartes and accept that his "cogito ergo sum" is the most self-evident idea in the history of humanity, even more evident than "panta rei"!”

At this moment, a brave, patriotic, deep ecologist Heideggerian traditional farmer who had written over 1500 papers on the ontological difference and understood the necessity of a new German beginning for western philosophy and fully supported all hermeutization of ontology spoke:

”What is that by terms of which this rock can be said to exist, pinhead?”-he said in a 19th century rural dialect of German

The arrogant professor smirked quite modernly and smugly replied “Matter, you stupid postmodernist”

”Wrong. Matter is just an a posteriori theoretical understanding of reality. If its Being, as you say, is a metaphysical substance… then its Being is a being ”

The professor was visibly shaken, and dropped his chalk and copy of Discourse on the Method. He stormed out of the room crying those dualist crocodile tears. The same tears modernists cry for the “res cogitans” when they jealously try to claw wonder from the world by making it an standing-reserve of resources. There is no doubt that at this point our professor, Aristotle Spinoza, wished he had pulled himself up by his bootstraps and become more than an inauthentic nihilist. He wished so much that he could experience aletheia, but he himself had created metaphysical cages that prevented Being from showing itself!

The students applauded and all enrolled in the university of Freiburg that day and accepted historicity and finitude as the defining characteristics of human existence. An eagle named “Ereignis” flew into the room and perched atop the portrait of Friedrich Nietzsche and shed a tear on the chalk. Sein und Zeit was read several times, and Being itself was disclosed and propagated authenticity and existential dread throughout the country.

The professor lost his tenure and was fired the next day. He died after being ran over by a motorized fleet of agricultural machinery and nothing happened to him after that because being-towards-death is a condition of possibility for experience.

[Blood Rainbow !!6ueS4TJTaQw No.4683731]

>>4683721

[Anonymous No.4683732]

>>4683721
> He died after being ran over by a motorized fleet of agricultural machinery and nothing happened to him after that because being-towards-death is a condition of possibility for experience.

I roared with laughter.

... if we accept certain metaphysical notions.

[Anonymous No.4683733]

Can someone let me know what's going on in this thread? I lack an understanding of the Frankfurt School. And yes, I already googled it.

[Anonymous No.4683734]

>>4683721
>He died after being ran over by a motorized fleet of agricultural machinery

every time

[Blood Rainbow !!6ueS4TJTaQw No.4683739]

>>4683733
>And yes, I already googled it.

don't bother, your consciousness is already reified

[Anonymous No.4683922]

>>4683369
TOPLEL leftist stereotypes. Avid right-winger here, I don't own a television, and I spend as much time as humanly possible reading. Your wing of the political spectrum doesn't hold a monopoly on being literature and culture.

[Anonymous No.4683934]

>>4683922
>left wing
>read most of those books

It's actually not a bad list.

[Anonymous No.4683950]

>>4683922
>I don't own a television
watch out everyone

[Anonymous No.4683965]

>>4683934
Yes it is a shame that they did not include more Thomas carlyle on the list, especially because his latter day pamphlets are like a nineteenth century my struggle

[Anonymous No.4683968]

>>4683922
Hi, I'm from the New Yorker and I'm writing an article on real badasses, are you available for an interview?

[Anonymous No.4683976]

>>4683965


it also needs f p yockey and fitzhugh

[Anonymous No.4683979]

>>4683922
That list is so funny. You guys really want to associate the right wing with good literature because it makes you look better to impressionable kids.

[Anonymous No.4684025]

>>4683343
right-wing potshots at philosophy and the academy for some reason make me feel really good

mandatory on the issue
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgCjGeKhDuI

[Anonymous No.4684030]

>>4683968
contact me at [e-mail]

[Anonymous No.4684091]

>>4683979
Fascist, "reactionary", neitzchean were all dominant ideologies in the avant-garde circles of the 19th century through to the mainstream in the early 20th century. Current progressive ideals would have gotten the reactionary & bat-shit crazy label then, progressivism has only recently become hegemonic. It's out of necessity that a right-wing list will be mostly historical, dated works. They're not trying to associate themselves with classics, right-wing shit just isn't common or allowed to be published anymore.

For the progressives to trace their history backwards would only undermine themselves, their intellectual precedence turns out to be the crazy Protestant spinoffs of the English Dissenters (the Levellers, Diggers, Quakers, etc.)
Ie: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leveller
>The Levellers were a political movement during the English Civil War which emphasised popular sovereignty, extended suffrage, equality before the law, and religious tolerance
Sound familiar?
See:
http://www.amazon.com/War-Righteousness-Progressive-Christianity-Messianic

[Anonymous No.4684103]

>>4684091
>or allowed to be published anymore.
Why is it people who praise heroism, self-reliance, and manly courage are all such babies? You can get fucking anything published

[Anonymous No.4684118]

>>4684091
>Fascist, "reactionary", neitzchean were all dominant ideologies in the avant-garde circles of the 19th century through to the mainstream in the early 20th century

[citation needed]

[Anonymous No.4684119]

>>4684091
>Fascist, "reactionary", neitzchean

[Anonymous No.4684152]

>>4683976
yockey is on there

[Anonymous No.4684186]

>>4684118
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fin_de_si%C3%A8cle
>The ideas and concerns developed by fin de siècle artists provided the impetus for movements like symbolism and modernism.
>The themes of fin de siècle political culture were very controversial and have been cited as a major influence on fascism. The major political theme of the era was that of revolt against materialism, rationalism, positivism, bourgeois society and liberal democracy.
>The fin-de-siècle outlook was influenced by various intellectual developments, including Darwinian biology; Wagnerian aesthetics; Arthur de Gobineau's racialism; Gustave Le Bon's psychology; and the philosophies of Friedrich Nietzsche, Fyodor Dostoyevsky and Henri Bergson

Fascism fermented with Italian Futurists and then took ahold of Italy during WW1. It was never a right wing or conservative ideology, it was a radical/revolutionary synthesis of both left wing and right wing. Germany's national socialism was further on the right and smeared its name in the face of democracy (which until WW2 was never widely accepted as anything but heavily flawed). Nietzche is cited right there as an influence, who also criticized democracy as a function of Christianity ("the democratic movement is Christianity's heir")

[Anonymous No.4684339]

>>4684186
I like how absolutely none of those back your point in any degree

[Anonymous No.4684359]

>>4684103


i think its more like, the thought to publish such things hardly exists to begin with, thats how you get hegemony in the context of popular governance.

[Anonymous No.4684453]

>all this "intellectual" dogshit
Disgusting

[Anonymous No.4684481]

>>4684453
sry murray we all know how tenacious you and your peers were against intellectualism

[Anonymous No.4684484]

>>4684453
>decries intellectualism and posts a picture of a man who advocate a market for children

Apt

[Anonymous No.4684492]

>>4684339
Why not?
Fin de siecle was the defining artistic movement of the late 19th century, and the ideologies listed directly cites Nietzsche, and present it as a root to fascism.

How does this not back up the claim that Fascist and Nietzsche ideologies were dominant in the avant-garde of the 19th century leading into the early 20th century?

[Anonymous No.4684517]

>>4684453
Austrian economics is anti-empirical and borderline pseudoscience.

[Anonymous No.4684703]

>>4684517
>borderline pseudoscience
Orthodox Marxism is borderline. Austrianism is the antithesis of science