/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.4670141]

God is supremely good. Of all creation that is capable of rational thought and free will, some are friends to God, some are His true servants, some are estranged, and there are others who, despite their weakness, take their stand against Him. We might imagine that God's friends are those angelic beings which surround him (Seraphim, Cherubim etc...). His true servants are those who sincerely attempt to do His will to the best of their ability. The estranged are those who have not yet met Christ. His opponents are those who go out of their way to attack Him and those who believe.

[Anonymous No.4670144]

>>4670141
Lets focus on His true servants because that's all humanity can ever hope to be. In order to be His servant we first must attempt to know who He is. God is the life of all free beings. He is the salvation of all, of the just or the unjust, of the pious or the impious, and of the young or the old. He is like the sun's warmth which is the same for everyone without exception (Rom 2:11). An impious man is a rational being, one that must die, who willingly runs away from life. A Christian is one who attempts to imitate Christ in thought, word and deed to the best of their ability. The angelic friends of God live in on a higher plane of existence which is uncorrupted by sin. These beings are capable of rational thought and attempt to influence our plane of existence when they can. Of course, they are not omnipotent so their influence is limited to what God permits. The blessed man attempts to mirror his life to those angelic beings (who are themselves imitators of Christ). In his mind, the Christian attempts to spiritually raise himself up to heaven and perceive the world as Christ did, then act accordingly. We are incapable of perfectly achieving this goal, but the mere act of striving for it is a key to our redemption. The blessed sincerely believes the validity of God's commandments and does all that he can to obey them even through failure. Attempting to live righteously is a constant struggle within one's consciousness but by simply engaging with it we begin to imitate God himself. Rejecting earthly values is the willing acceptance of ridicule in exchange for a spiritual kingdom.

[Anonymous No.4670149]

>>4670144
Christians have many reasons to reject the world, either for the hope of things to come, or because of the number of their sins, or simply because they love God. Without these objectives, denial of the earthly pleasures would make no sense. We believe God will judge us if we do not prepare for Him.
Those of us who wish to escape this worldly prison, to free ourselves from Pharaoh, need our own version of Moses to be our intermediary with God, to translate His will for us. Those who believe in God but attempt to serve Him on their own terms, without a leader, are deceiving themselves. We need someone to teach us how we can best serve God.
Christ is our leader and although we fail Him, let us try our best to follow His example because He truly knows how to make us happy. His teachings are those of our Creator himself, it would be arrogant and foolish to reject them. Let all those considering this marvelous, tough and painful yet paradoxically easy leap of faith remember that Christ promised to help us and that our rewards are peace and happiness.

[Anonymous No.4670158]

>>4670141
Hide, report and sage.

[Anonymous No.4670162]

>spinozaface.jpg

> implying God needs to be served
> implying service does not imply god lacks something, which it does not

[Anonymous No.4670215]

>>4670162
>implying the service isn't for humanity's benefit.

[Anonymous No.4670226]

>>4670215
anon pls stop

you're killing me

[Anonymous No.4670232]

>>4670226
Know this first of all, that in the last days mockers will come with their mocking, following after their own lusts - 2 Peter 3:3

[Anonymous No.4670243]

>>4670232
>the last days

Oh yeah, when are those? I got some vacation time coming up.

[Anonymous No.4670254]

>>4670243
"But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone." - Matthew 24:36

[Anonymous No.4670263]

1.- There are no such things as absolute truths, except for this absolute truth.

2.- If god exists, god is absolutely free.

3.- If god is absolutely free, he can change the rules anytime, or instate 1 as rule.

[Anonymous No.4670266]

>>4670254
Wait, does this mean God has at least three minds?

[Anonymous No.4670268]

My response is that when Creationists talk about God creating every individual species as a separate act, they always instance hummingbirds, or orchids, sunflowers and beautiful things. But I tend to think instead of a parasitic worm that is boring through the eye of a boy sitting on the bank of a river in West Africa, [a worm] that's going to make him blind. And [I ask them], 'Are you telling me that the God you believe in, who you also say is an all-merciful God, who cares for each one of us individually, are you saying that God created this worm that can live in no other way than in an innocent child's eyeball? Because that doesn't seem to me to coincide with a God who's full of mercy'.[71]

David Attenborough

[Anonymous No.4670272]

>>4670263
But I am afraid that, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, your minds will be led astray from the simplicity and purity of devotion to Christ. - 2 Corinthians 11:3

[Anonymous No.4670276]

>>4670268
Perhaps those creatures only exist because of our sin.

Then to Adam He said, "Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, 'You shall not eat from it'; Cursed is the ground because of you - Genesis 3:16

[Anonymous No.4670281]

>>4670268
Worms don't deserve to live?

[Anonymous No.4670284]

>>4670266
God has three persons but is of one mind. This is the mystery of the Trinity.

[Anonymous No.4670287]

>>4670281
If they're in your intestine or burrowing through your brain... no.

[Anonymous No.4670288]

>>4670276
An innocent child is bereft of sin, and the garden of eden myth is a near east creation story that doesnt belong in a religious book. Im not an atheist, but i outright reject genesis and the men who put it in the bible.

>>4670281
I got no problems with the worms, just God's inherent goodness. Maybe he is just concerning cosmic law ala carl sagan. I can live with that.

[Anonymous No.4670290]

>>4670284
999

[Anonymous No.4670294]

>>4670284
sounds like polytheism to me

[Anonymous No.4670301]

>>4670290
Beloved, I pray that all may go well with you and that you may be in good health, as it goes well with your soul. - 3 John 1:2

[Anonymous No.4670296]

>>4670276
>>4670272

This is some lazy scripture citations right here. You can do better than that

[Anonymous No.4670298]

>>4670276
Her face is really, really, really close to his stuff.

[Anonymous No.4670309]

>>4670276
23 From there Elisha went up to Bethel. As he was walking along the road, some boys came out of the town and jeered at him. “Get out of here, baldy!” they said. “Get out of here, baldy!” 24 He turned around, looked at them and called down a curse on them in the name of the Lord. Then two bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the boys.

2 Kings:2

[Anonymous No.4670307]

>>4670288

>cosmic law

"The things that are perish into the things out of which they come to be, according to necessity, for they pay penalty and retribution to each other for their injustice in accordance with the ordering of time, as he says in rather poetical language."

[Anonymous No.4670313]

>>4670307
Sounds fine to me, just dont pretend that god is doing a newborn a favor when it is born with extreme spinabifida

[Anonymous No.4670314]

>>4670284
>God has three persons but is of one mind.
Then how can the Son not know what the Father does?

[Anonymous No.4670317]

>>4670314
Ever sat on your hand and jerked off?

[Anonymous No.4670322]

>>4670309
Do not be arrogant toward the branches. If you are, remember it is not you who support the root, but the root that supports you. - Romans 11:18

[Anonymous No.4670327]

>>4670322
What are you throwing darts at a bible?

[Anonymous No.4670335]

I do believe that ultimately, Christians are not fully of the world, rather are pilgrims in it, as Augustine says very lyrically in the beginning of the City of God.

However, I've never quite been comfortable with the idea that the world is to be rejected utterly. Did God not make the world? Is not the world filled with his beauty and love and gentleness? And will he not remake the world and raise it to its old splendor, the glories it knew in the Garden of Eden, on the day Christ comes again in glory? There will be a new Jerusalem coming out of the Heavens then, and God's dwelling shall be with the human race. The Revelation to John says as much.

I think the idea of rejecting the world is a good one insofar as it gives us the proper perspective of what's most important in our lives as Christians. But I think it is also an idea that can be abused in the wrong hands. Then again, any idea can be abused in the wrong hands.

[Anonymous No.4670345]

>>4670141
>His opponents are those who go out of their way to attack Him and those who believe.
>and there are others who, despite their weakness...

That sounds like an attack right there.

[Anonymous No.4670368]

God is undefined. The idea of Him merits from this. The unknown reaching feelings surrounding thought and image of him speak of nature but never of existence.

This might speak to some as yet undiscovered dichotomy(or approximation) among peoples subtle ways of interpreting reality.

[Anonymous No.4670482]

>>4670215

> serving someone else who doesnt need it to serve yourself

[Anonymous No.4671472]

>deluding yourself that you religion is somehow special and better than other active or dead religions
>deluding yourself that humans are anything more than the most sophisticated of nature's meat robots

[Follower of the way !YeshuaToPc No.4671767]

>>4670149
Though your previous posts I find quite agreeable, I must admit I disagree strongly with the following.

>Those of us who wish to escape this worldly prison, to free ourselves from Pharaoh, need our own version of Moses to be our intermediary with God, to translate His will for us.
Those of us who wish to escape need God's gift of salvation. It was made available through His son The Christ Jesus.
It is He who can allow us to be free of our sins. No other can save you, neither can you save yourself.

>need our own version of Moses to be our intermediary with God
We have an intermediary with God in His son Jesus.
Furthermore his sacrifice has left us reconciled to God, that we might freely ask his forgiveness.
I can directly pray to God, for it is written.
Matthew 6:9 - After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

>to translate His will for us.
The Lord Jesus has done this too.
Have you not heard of his teachings?

I find the message to be quite clear.
Deuteronomy 6:5, Matthew 22:37
"Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind."
Mark 12:31,Matthew 22:39
"Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself."
If you would like to read it again. Luke 10:27
What troubles you in this translation? What have I failed to understand?
Men seem to make this more difficult, for it is a hard thing to love them that use you.
Only God can help you learn to love as He.

>Those who believe in God but attempt to serve Him on their own terms, without a leader, are deceiving themselves.
Any man is capable of being deceived.
Is not any man also capable of knowing the truth?
Are we not all made in the image of God?
I would remind you that The Kingdom of God is within you.
Luke 17:21 - Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.


>We need someone to teach us how we can best serve God.
I would remind you of your own words.
>Christ is our leader
As our leader he is also our teacher, our master, and Lord.
Do you seek the knowledge of God, or the idolatry of men?
I say again. Only God can help you, you should seek your help from Him.

>Christ promised to help us
Indeed, and he shall, if you ask it of him.
If you should seek the help of Christ, why would you ask it of men?

Jesus came teaching, and left with the order to teach. If we are to be more like him, would we not do likewise?
The church often says, we know the truth, come to us. The Lord has said "Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free".
The church that wants you to come to them, has got it backwards. We are to go out and teach others of the truth.
This fact I would think you should agree. Is it not your intentions to tell men of the truth?

[Follower of the way !YeshuaToPc No.4671770]

>>4670309
Would you presume to know the hearts on those slain?
The way I understand things: Children are automatically saved.
If this is the case. Who is to say that they would not grow to hate God, and to deny him, and teach others the same?
Perhaps this lesson can serve both us, and them. Perhaps this was the only way to save those souls.
I would also say. The lesson I have learned from this act. Be careful what you speak, for the power of life and death lies with the tongue.
Proverbs 18:21 - Death and life are in the power of the tongue: and they that love it shall eat the fruit thereof.


>>4670313
>Sounds fine to me, just dont pretend that god is doing a newborn a favor when it is born with extreme spinabifida
Sounds fine to me, just don't pretend that God has caused this to be.

>>4670368
>God is undefined.
God has defined Himself, in both his word, and also His son Jesus Christ.
Yahweh is Salvation.

>>4671472
>deluding yourself that you religion is somehow special and better than other active or dead religions
I have no delusions. The one true God is a living God. He is the creator of all things.
His kingdom shall have no end.

>deluding yourself that humans are anything more than the most sophisticated of nature's meat robots
Robots have no emotion.
Do you also lack it?
I am no robot. I have the love of God inside me.
How is it that an unguided force has created the "most sophisticated"?
We cannot ourselves on purpose create any better, yet you believe this has happened with no design.
DNA is your proof of intelligence behind our existence.
“DNA is like a computer program but far, far more advanced than any software ever created.” - Bill Gates, The Road Ahead

[Anonymous No.4671771]

>>4670141
>God is supremely good
>creates babies with their hearts on the outside of their bodies
>extreme pain followed by death
>little being with no sense of the world simply exists temporarily to feel nothing but pain, disappears forever

>supremely good

[Anonymous No.4671785]

>>4671771
"b..b..b..but muh original sin needs to be cleansed!"

[Anonymous No.4671786]

>>4671770
>Sounds fine to me, just don't pretend that God has caused this to be.
Cant have it both ways. Either God is omnipotent or he isnt. Whether he caused it directly is irrelevant. If he could stop it and doesnt he is immoral, if he cant stop it he is limited and irrelevant.

>Religious Deists pretending they have any degree of knowledge regarding the nature of the divine.

[Anonymous No.4671788]

>>4671770
instead of trying to create ridiculous apologia for your obviously incorrect beliefs, wouldn't it be more intellectually honest of you to instead change those beliefs rather than defend their flaws?

[Anonymous No.4671789]

>>4670141
>God is supremely good.
>creates a world full of suffering and is either not able, or not willing to do anything about it
>b-but muh free will!

[Follower of the way !YeshuaToPc No.4671794]

>>4671786
It is God who cannot have it both ways.
If He is to control you, then you are not free.
If you are to be free, then He cannot force you to obey His will.

The evil in the world is the result of the fall of man.
It is no doubt the result of Lucifer's will, and the will of men. It is not the will of God.

>>4671788
What flaws do you speak of?
Tell me where is my error?

[Anonymous No.4671798]

>It’s not God that I don’t accept, Alyosha, only I most respectfully return him the ticket.

[Anonymous No.4671800]

>>4671789
I don't see how the desire for humans to be free is a bad answer to that question. I have heard free will called a "terrible" freedom, because so much evil can come from it.

Especially if you accept the conceit of the OP, that our time in this world is temporary and small compared to the eternity that awaits.

[Anonymous No.4671802]

>>4671794
>Tell me where is my error?

Lack of empirical evidence and the problem of evil

[Anonymous No.4671804]

>>4671800
>I don't see how the desire for humans to be free is a bad answer to that question

Who created free will again?

[Anonymous No.4671806]

>>4671804
I still don't see how that makes it problematic.

Look, if you read the New Testament, and the theology that flows from it, everything comes back to love. God asks, not for obedience, but for the love of humans, just as he loves us. Jesus talks intensely about love in the New Testament, and Paul's passage on love is perhaps the most quoted bit of his epistles. It was Augustine, Athanasius, or one of the other theologians of Late Antiquity that postulated that the relationship between the persons of the Trinity is one of love.

Which is why free will is so essential, and why it HAS to exist. Obedience can be compelled. Love cannot. Love can only emerge from fondness and kindness freely given. So a God whose mechanics, as it were, operate on a basis of love couldn't have proper followers that didn't have free will.

[Anonymous No.4671807]

>still believing in some form of intelligent design

>2014 years after the death of Jesus Christ

[Anonymous No.4671814]

>>4670276
>Perhaps those creatures only exist because of our sin.

What about the equally abhorrent ones which predate humanity?

[Anonymous No.4671815]

>>4671807

>God, supremely good
>gives female geese a decoy vaginal passage so they can't get pregnant during rape and violent sex

>cares more about the well-being of geese than women

[Anonymous No.4671818]

>>4671806
>I still don't see how that makes it problematic.

God created everything. He's omnipotent, omniscient and omnibenevolent. He is both able and willing to stop evil. There exists evil regardless

Your counter is free will, which he created, knowing full well that it would have disastrous consequences. Instead of not creating free will, he not only creates it, but also punishes the entirety of the human race when one person uses something that he knew in advance we would use and that would be disastrous.

If God is omnipotent, omniscient and omnibenevolent, there should be no evil, free will or not

[Anonymous No.4671819]

>>4671815
That's to solve overpopulation. Self-aware people need to get over their emotional trauma with self-aware ways, not with God.

[Follower of the way !YeshuaToPc No.4671820]

>>4671802
>Lack of empirical evidence
I have seen no lack of evidence.
If you have seen none. It is for your lack of looking for it.
http://www.godandscience.org/
http://creation.com/laws-of-information-1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyHWtQN4yLM

Romans 1:20
"For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:"
>so that they are without excuse.

The evidence is all around you.
Do not let yourself be blinded from the truth.


>the problem of evil
I admit this is a problem.
I would remind you God has a plan in place to overcome this problem.

>>4671818
>If God is omnipotent, omniscient and omnibenevolent, there should be no evil, free will or not
How could I be free, if I could not disobey God?

You do not understand the meaning of freedom.

[Anonymous No.4671824]

>>4671807
>implying belief in God implies disbelief in any standard scientific explanation of the world

[Anonymous No.4671825]

>>4671819
I'd argue overpopulation of humans is a slightly more pressing concern than that of geese

[Anonymous No.4671826]

>>4671825
>I'd argue overpopulation of humans is a slightly more pressing concern than that of geese
That's why homosexuality exists.

[Anonymous No.4671828]

>>4671824
Well, it depends on how you define God.

[Anonymous No.4671831]

>>4671825
thats because you're not a goose

[Anonymous No.4671834]

>>4671818
>There exists evil regardless

Only if you take this world we presently exist in as an end in itself, rather than something that has changed and will change again in more ways than one.

This world, with all its suffering, is not the endgame. It is not the final product of God's plan. The people who suffer here are not as they will ultimately be. As angry as we all become about evil, and as much as we want judgment for wrongdoing RIGHT NOW, God is playing a much longer game.

We live 100 years if we're lucky. The United States, one of the world's youngest countries, has been around more than twice that long. Some of the nations of the world have been around for multiple centuries. The Roman Catholic Church, as an institution, has lasted at least 1500 years.

To borrow a turn of phrase from, who said it again? Was it Sagan? There's an extent to which God operates in geologic timescales. Epochs of the Earth and all that.

And yet he's still immediate.

[Anonymous No.4671837]

>>4671820
>How could I be free, if I could not disobey God?

Who gave you that choice?

[Anonymous No.4671838]

>>4670141

Catholic representing.

Converted in my 20's, raised atheist.

[Anonymous No.4671840]

>>4671838
Why do you believe in God, and prayer and Jesus?

[Anonymous No.4671842]

>>4671820
>I have seen no lack of evidence.

That's because you've never presented anything in the first place

[Anonymous No.4671855]

>>4671820

>creationism, negative proof nonsense and WLC semantics

All of this has already been debunked a million times

[Anonymous No.4671860]

>>4671820
If God were truly omnipotent he could allow you to disobey him as well as remove all evil.

[Follower of the way !YeshuaToPc No.4671864]

>>4671837
God has given me the choice.

You cannot have true love if you have not free will.
God wants to love, and to be loved.
If He is to have love, He must first have free beings, and not robots.
You must choose to love him, else it is not love.

It seems to me you have made your choice not to.
It is your choice to make.
God loves you regardless your feelings towards him.
He will save you if you let him.

>>4671842
Perhaps you should read again the post you are replying.
PS
Matthew 7:7
"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:"
Luke 11:9
"And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you."
Again I say. If you have seen no evidence it is your lack of looking.

>>4671855
>All of this has already been debunked a million times
You have disproven nothing in your statement.
If you would have me believe different, you will need to show me the error.
Believe what you will. I know the truth.

>>4671860
>as well as remove all evil.
I would remind you he intends to.
Have you not heard of his plan?

[Anonymous No.4671866]

>>4671860
Technically, he did remove all evil with the Crucifixion and the Resurrection. He reopened the way to Eternal Life.

[Anonymous No.4671865]

>2014
>believing in a personal god
deism or atheism or get out. (atheism is superior because it makes no assumptions)

[Anonymous No.4671868]

>>4671866
>capitalising random nouns
>being so strong in my cognitive dissonance that i defend god's clear failing in removing evil

why wouldn't god just make everyone eternally happy and good and free and with him?

[Anonymous No.4671872]

>>4671864
>as well as remove all evil.
>I would remind you he intends to.
why doesn't he remove evil now then

[Anonymous No.4671874]

>>4671865
Deism is the most rational way to believe in a god, if one believes in a god at all. I'll grant you that.

The idea of a personal god is beyond reason. Or rather, exists on a separate plane from reason.

[Anonymous No.4671875]

>>4671864
>God has given me the choice.

And he knows everything in advance, so he knows that you can't handle this and then punishes you for something he already knew was going to happen in advance

[Anonymous No.4671877]

Silence! every possible variety of figure and configuration.
Silence! the air is full of you, the earth and the sea, and the lowest subterranean depths.
Silence your multiple heads! Silence the deafening hiss of serpents covering the murmur of the dead.

[Anonymous No.4671879]

>>4671868
He did. Just not in this life.

[Anonymous No.4671880]

>>4671879
why?
why bother with this life if we are to be eternally happy anyway? this life of pain and suffering, murder and rape and death and tragedy? why?

[Anonymous No.4671887]

>>4671864
>You have disproven nothing in your statement.

>creationism

Not even a theory. Makes no predictions, cannot be tested and assumes beyond necessity

>negative proof

Fallacy.You can't prove that I don't have an invisible box that contains the formula for making universes, so I guess that means that I do, right?

>WLC semantic games

1. Invariable start with an intuitive statements. Your intuition is useless when it comes to describing the really big and the really small. A good example of this is the matter that makes up your own hand, which consists of 90% empty space.
2. WLC's nonsense and other 'proofs' of god solely rely on deduction. They present an idea that is only consistent with itself, not reality
3. The overall method of these proves is very simple: start with a conclusion, fix it in advance as true and look for anything that confirms it. This method is also the opposite of how knowledge is gained

[Anonymous No.4671891]

>>4671880
Because if you can't love this world and the people in it, in spite of everything that happens in it, you won't be ready for what's to come.

I think.

In the end, everything I've said about God is, to a certain degree, inadequate. Much of it is right, if I've gotten my theology consistent, but it's not close to the complete picture. There's much we simply don't know about God, and all that's absolutely certain about him are the things he chooses to directly reveal to us in one form (the burning bush) or another (Jesus).

God does rather grumpily remind us that we're incapable of fathoming him in the Book of Job.

This is why, though I'm Catholic, I can definitely sympathize with Luther's dislike of Scholastic theology. And it's worth pointing out that Thomas Aquinas, towards the end of his life, experienced a vision of God so moving and profound that he declared he would not write any more theology, because compared to what he had seen everything he had written was straw.

This is why there's so much need for faith if you're going to believe in a God. You can only argue rationally about these things to a certain extent. There's a point at which you just have to step into the things you know beyond knowing. As Tertullian famously declared, "I believe because it is impossible." I wouldn't go quite that far, but I agree with his ethos.

[Anonymous No.4671892]

>>4671864
The phrase "free will" does not appear in the bible. There are numerous versus describing predestination.

[Anonymous No.4671893]

>>4671891
>Because if you can't love this world and the people in it, in spite of everything that happens in it, you won't be ready for what's to come.

You can't either. In fact, the average Christian is much more hateful and much more dangerous than the average non-believer

[Anonymous No.4671894]

>>4671892
Determinism is a fact no matter how much people deny it.
Claiming that your genetics and environment do not affect your decisions is foolish.

[Anonymous No.4671898]

>>4671891
>Because if you can't love this world and the people in it, in spite of everything that happens in it, you won't be ready for what's to come.
Why doesn't God make everyone with the capacity to love then?

[Anonymous No.4671903]

>>4671894
I think there are different definitions of "free will" that get thrown around, to be perfectly honest. People ascribe different meanings to the same concept.

[Anonymous No.4671908]

>>4671903
there are no definitions of free will
nobody ever specifies what it means
because its meaningless

[Anonymous No.4671914]

>>4671908
Okay then, I've got nothing to do today. Let's try to define "free will." We can use all our wits and learning and cleverness to agree upon a definition.

It'll be fun. We'll be like Socrates, Glaucon, and Adiemantus, hunting and sniffing about so that the idea doesn't slip our nets.

[Follower of the way !YeshuaToPc No.4671922]

>>4671868
>why wouldn't god just make everyone eternally happy and good and free and with him?

Sin.

Sin can arise with free will, and the knowledge of good&evil.
I would remind you of Lucifer.
Ezekiel 28:15
"Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee."
In my opinion. God has allowed us the choice of this knowledge, but specifically commanded us not have it.
Genesis 2:17
"But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."
Man has chose to disobey the command of God.
Now we are learning of good&evil first hand.

>>4671872
>why doesn't he remove evil now then
Would you be saved if he did?

>>4671875
His foreknowledge has no bearing on your choices.
I now know that The Seattle Seahawks have won the Superbowl, does my knowledge of this force them to win?
God can see all things, this is true, but this does not mean that he has forced your choices.
Knowing an outcome is not the same as causing it.

>>4671892
God has commanded thou shalt not. see Exodus 20
People have done these things.
Obviously we are free to disobey him.

I shall have to make replies at a later time.
Peace be with you.

[Anonymous No.4671938]

>>4671922
do you just ignore everything that he has been saying? God is not truly powerful if he cannot give happiness, freewill etc. etc. AND remove suffering, sin, evil

[Anonymous No.4671939]

>>4671914
It is literally an incoherent idea, once you examine it you realize it simply doesn't mean anything.

We can make up all sorts of definitions of intelligence and choice and will, but the concept of free will is simply incoherent. Its basically saying you choose to do something before you choose to do it. You become aware of a desire at some point, you didnt choose to become aware of that desire, thats blatantly impossible, you then act in one way or another, you cant choose the way you will choose to act.

There is really nowhere to go from here.

[Anonymous No.4671960]

>>4671922
Thank you for putting on a trip so I can filter you

>>4671903
Seriously consider the law of non contradiction. Throw it out the window. What you get is Christian logic.

[Anonymous No.4671969]

>>4671922
>His foreknowledge has no bearing on your choices.

No, but it does have bearing on who's ultimately responsible for them, and if God makes these choices possible in the first place, knowing full well how disastrous this works out, it kind of makes him ultimately responsible, doesn't it? Especially when you realize that we have a very limited ability to stop evil

[Anonymous No.4672008]

>>4671939
I refuse to believe the concept of free will is such a mess. The term has been used since ancient times. I mean I literally have a dialectic of Augustine's called "On Free Choice of the Will," unless that's a bad translation. People have been talking about it for a long while, since well before modernist thought. Surely someone has laid down a strict definition.

And of course you could always be a pedant and look in the OED.