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/lit/ - Literature

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4660478 No.4660478[DELETED]  [Reply] [Original]

Which do you prefer and why: low fantasy or high fantasy? Also, how would you define the two (would something like ASoIaF be low fantasy?)

Feel free to recommend fantasy series ITT, I just want to have a fantasy thread without genre hate

>> No.4660489

High fantasy, because it's high.

>> No.4660488

>>4660478
Well written fantasy.

Seriously, quality is my only preference, and I haven't read enough good fantasy of either type to have a baseline good for either.

>> No.4660496

I have a hard time distinguishing between the two, since fantasy by its very nature flies 'above' the realms of 'normal' human experience.

I suppose 'low' fantasy would just be medieval-themed historical fiction with the barest hint of the supernatural.

I mean, A Song of Ice and Fire bills itself as 'low' fantasy, but as it's gone on hasn't it become increasingly high? There's dragons, magic, giants, ethereal races, even unicorns.

>> No.4660509
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4660509

>>4660488
What makes a fantasy series well-written? I'm thinking it's something about the immersion--that is, without good world building/lore, the world won't feel alive, which is sort of the point of fantasy. Interesting, well-written characters are also important, of course.

>> No.4660516

>>4660496
>A Song of Ice and Fire bills itself as 'low' fantasy, but as it's gone on hasn't it become increasingly high? There's dragons, magic, giants, ethereal races, even unicorns.

I honestly have no idea how to classify the series, it's like human-centered pseudo-high fantasy

>> No.4660520

>>4660478
I really like fantasy mixed with historical fiction, like "Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrell," which is phenomenal, by the way. I'm very picky with books, though, so I haven't read as much fantasy as I'd like.

>> No.4660525

>>4660509
How about, for starters, it being WELL-WRITTEN? As in, its prose being skillfully, artfully crafted? As in it having a style that pleases a large amount of people, while also satisfying an approximately objective standard of good taste?

There should be a note of elegance, of beauty- in all the forms that takes- to the writing.

>> No.4660527

>>4660525
What would you point to as well-written fantasy?

>> No.4660532

>>4660525
Ran the following priorities for the epic, multi-book fantasy writer:

World building
Characterization
Prose
Plot

>> No.4660533

>>4660527
All of Ursula K. LeGuin's stuff, for starters.

>> No.4660547

>>4660532
It's no different for a fantasy writer than for any other writer.

1. Characterization
2. Prose
3. Plot
4. World-building

I really hate the laziness of too many fantasy writers who assume that their 'original' worlds, which are not terribly original to start with, is going to make up for their terrible prose and flat characters. In ANY work, but especially in genre fiction, characters are of paramount importance. Even more than plot, characters must drive the story.

>> No.4660553

>>4660478
Low fantasy, because the magic has more of an impact when there are fewer instances of it occuring. Also it's grittier(and thus more to my liking), which I can tell you with absolute certainty, LotR and ASoIaF being the only two fantasy novels I have ever read

>> No.4660555

>>4660509
This guy >>4660525 wasn't me, but he's right.

I really like fantasy as a genre. I play DnD and a lot of vidya RPGs and shit like that. But rarely do I ever read fantasy. Haven't at all in the past 2 years. I've been debating reading at least the first Game of Thrones books because I've heard the complexity of the world is a major redeeming feature.

The problem is that all these modern fantasy writers are basically writing DnD/WoW/LOTR fan fiction. Sometimes that is literally exactly what they're doing (half the books in the fantasy section at the book store have a Wizards of the Cost logo).

Fantasy is a genre with the widest range of possibilities, and is ironically the most formulaic and cliched.

If you're going to write fantasy, and you want it to be legitimately good, don't approach it as you are writing a fantasy novel. Approach it like you would approach serious literature. Add as much or as little fantasy as you want, create a complex world from scratch or only give relevant details, but the quality of the narrative ALWAYS has to come first.

That's what we mean when we saying well written.

>> No.4660557

I think we're generally all agreed on preferring well-written fantasy over anything (unless someone would like to speak up and say they love schlock fantasy).

That being said, I usually separate them by a vague reference to what type of magic or fantastical creatures are involved. Dragons and sorcerers/wizards (people with innate magic skills) I place as more of high fantasy, while imps/goblins in the forests and alchemists (complicated, "scientific" magic) might fall towards low for me. High seems "grand" to me, something as unrealistic as gigantic dragons, giants, wizards shooting fireballs, etc. Low is closer to reality, closer to earthly things (I'd sooner accept primal fae type creatures exist than dragons like Smaug ever did).

My preference? I have a special love of low 'cause I love folklore and that realistic belief/fear of the little things that go bump in the forest behind the cabin. But I do love high fantasy plenty.

>> No.4660558
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4660558

High Fantasy: Fantasy that doesn't concern the real world in any way (Lord of the Rings, ASOIAF, Elric, Wheel of Time, etc.)

Low Fantasy: Fantasy set in the real world or connected to the real world in some way (Narnia, Harry Potter, The Worm Ouroboros, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland)

Get this D&D TVTropes shit out of here.

>> No.4660564
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4660564

>>4660553
Are you me

>> No.4660569

Seems strange that Varg burned the most black metal looking buildings in existence.

>> No.4660572

>>4660533
Also, Robert E. Howard. Technically a sword & sorcery writer, but that's a subgenre of fantasy. Howard's prose is delightful.

Also again, The Book of the New Sun, though it's technically science fiction. Still, I'm in awe of the quality of Wolfe's prose.

>> No.4660573

>>4660557
I really agree with a lot of what you're saying, and I'd love to know what sort of fantasy novels you've enjoyed. Any recs?

>> No.4660622

>>4660573
You want good low fantasy the way I explained it? Cecilia Dart-Thornton's Bitterbynde Trilogy (starts with The Ill-Made Mute). After publishing this trilogy she was referred to as the "Australian Tolkien." I haven't read any of her other books, they look like they lean a little more toward romance, but I LOVE this series and it's definitely inspired my own work towards a trilogy. It's highly influenced by Celtic/Scottish/Anglo-Saxon lore.

The Dream Stealer by Gregory Maguire (the guy who wrote Wicked) is a great homage to Russian folklore - the simplistic fear of a earthy magic and creatures of the night.

Most of what else I've read fantasy is Tolkien, Martin, Pratchett, and Anthony Piers who are a little more high fantasy. Haven't had much time since high school (college, real life, exploring other genres and non-genre writing, etc.) to find new low fantasy. But I HIGHLY recommend The Bitterbynde Trilogy.

>> No.4660630

I try to just avoid the trope abusing shit and the stuff made for manchildren, otherwise I'm down for whatever.

>> No.4660633

>>4660557
you got me in the mood for some quaint, lowly imps and shit. can you rec something?

>> No.4660638

>>4660633
>>4660622
nevermind, didn't refresh in time. thanks.

>> No.4660641

>>4660633
See:
>>4660622

Also, totally explore folklore from different nations. It may be written simplistically (often either because it's being translated or was originally told to children), but some of the ideas, characters, creatures, etc. are quite enthralling. Sometimes even terrifying.

>> No.4660658
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4660658

>>4660641
Since you like folklore, do you know the gnome book by Rien Poortvliet? It's Dutch, but I believe it's been translated. Absolutely beautiful stuff. Pic related.

>> No.4660661
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4660661

>>4660573
>>4660633
Also, want a good laugh - like a B-rated, this is so bad I love it laugh?

Wraeththu by Storm Constantine. Think X-Men (people are evolving into something new, with some powers), but some people are turning into beautiful hermaphrodite fae type people. It's ridiculous. I bought it just because it was so fascinatingly Mary Sue. Oddly enough, the writing isn't so bad, but just so obviously some girl's wet dream turned into a fantasy story.

>> No.4660665

>>4660658
Ooh that looks interesting. I'll have to check it out. I have a huge collection of Brian Froud's art books and a few anthologies of imp/goblin folklore. Love me some imps.

>> No.4660667
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4660667

>>4660658

>> No.4660674
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4660674

>>4660667

>> No.4660676
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4660676

>>4660674

>> No.4660680

>>4660555
A novel you may want to check out is The Way of Kings by Brandon Sanderson. It seems to get positive reviews from (most) of the fantasy-fans I've seen on /lit/.

I dunno, I really enjoyed it.

>> No.4660682
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4660682

>>4660676
I'll stop now before I nostalgia all over myself.

>> No.4660690

Do you think a wide brim, or a stingy brim is better? what about the crown??

>> No.4660691

>>4660682
>>4660674
I'd eat the fuck out of that breakfast. I'd even try the ant eggs.

>> No.4660697

>>4660558
Arthurian Legends are low fantasy?

>> No.4660698

>>4660680
Is he the Mormon guy?

>> No.4660710

>>4660478
I don't know who, but someone recommended The Prince of Nothing sometime last month. I'm about half-way through the first volume right now and it's actually pretty good. That puts it above every fantasy series I've tried to read in the last four years at least. So the bottom line is, thanks anon.

>> No.4660732

>>4660698
Yeah, he's a professor at BYU.

>> No.4660756

>>4660697
If we're allowed to class pre-modern works into modern categories of fiction, then yes, they totally fit the bill.

But what' The Iliad? High fantasy, because of all the gods?

>> No.4660774

>>4660756
Epic fantasy, obviously.

>> No.4660805

>>4660509
A'lot of the time it comes to subjectivity. There can be agreed upon criteria but even then there will be groups of people that feel differently.

Things like well written prose, interesting characters, interesting worlds, immersion, is subjective.

Immersion GREATLY differs between people and there are also outside factors that can effect immersion but that aren't usually considered.

>> No.4661116

>>4660558
this man is right.
>>4660697
yes

>> No.4661492

>>4660558
I disagree fully, if anything your definition is a trope. It doesn't make sense classifying Harry Potter as Low Fantasy with all the magical nonsense going on.
I tend to agree with this guy >>4660557

But that is just my
>Opinion

>> No.4661510

>>4660558
How is Asoiaf not concerned with the real world? The universe it takes place in might be invented, but it's so heavily based on ours, and the main emphasis is on characters experiencing mostly mundane, non-fantastical situations and stories, like political intrigue, wars, succession disputes etc which are inspired by those of real world history.

Asoiaf has always been historical fiction more than fantasy, and even its fantasy is definitely mostly low fantasy. I know it has some pretty significant high-fantasy elements, but these aren't the most central aspects of the books.

>> No.4661653
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4661653

>>4660756
Iliad, odyssey, Aeneid, ad the Divine Comedy are all epic fantasy

>> No.4661655

>>4661510
Yeah, ASoIaF is more like epic low fantasy, with a few high fantasy elements.

>> No.4661775

>>4661655
>>4661510
It's an epic without question, but definitely high fantasy. The fantastic and magical, though seemingly secondary to all the politicking, are what drives all of it in the same way science drives hard sci-fi.

One of the core questions I see Martin asking in each character study is "How would this low fantasy world react to the return of magic as more than myth?" Some laugh and dismiss it, others use it for gain. Though the high fantasy aspect isn't at the front of every character study, it is at the heart.

>> No.4663958

How do you write a fantasy novel without abusing world building?

As in, how do you properly space out your world without losing the plot?

>> No.4663975

>>4663958
write your story, don't explain shit, instead imply/infer only really explaining when you need to, and when that needs arises address it through a character who is ignorant of this knowledge.