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/lit/ - Literature

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4635076 No.4635076[DELETED]  [Reply] [Original]

Why did God accept Abel's offering but not Cain's?

>> No.4635080

Judging from that picture, I'd say that Cain shouldn't have used his hands to disrupt the smoke going up

>> No.4635081

Hunters are badass, farmers are fags

>> No.4635083

>>4635076
Because the OT is proof that either christianity is retarded or god is a dumb incomplete asshole because reasons.

>> No.4635085

He likes to do things alphabetically.

>> No.4635090

He was probably testing his faith. Like he did with Abraham, and everyone else.
Abraham passed his test, Job didnt.

>> No.4635102

>>4635090
>Abraham passed his test, Job didnt.
>Job

>>4635081
>Hunters are badass, farmers are fags
>Hunting lamb

>>4635083
>Because the OT is proof that either christianity is retarded or god is a dumb incomplete asshole because reasons.
>This entire post

/lit/ is fucking retarded in this timezone.

>> No.4635107

god reminds me of my dad
i love him and all, but he can be a total fucking dick sometimes

>> No.4635108

>>4635102
No, Christianity is fucking retarded everywhere.

>> No.4635112

>>4635102
>arguing that Christianity isn't illogical
Lol.

>> No.4635115

>>4635102
Shit, confused Abel with Esau

>> No.4635119

>>4635076
Why not?

>> No.4635122

>>4635115
>confused Abel with Esau
How is this even possible? Well I guess they were both hard workers who were taught a lesson for being so earnest and diligent.

I love Christianity.

>> No.4635124

>>4635112
>>4635108
Two retarded posters who can't even recognise their mistakes when they are pointed out.

>>4635115
>Shit, confused Abel with Esau
How? And what does Job have to do with either?

>> No.4635125

According to folklore, Cain was lazy but pious and killed his brother for some form of atheism. I don't recall where I read it, though.

>> No.4635130

>>4635125
>, Cain was lazy but pious and killed his brother for some form of atheism
That's the most hilariously ironic thing I've ever heard in my life.

>> No.4635134
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4635134

>>4635124
>defending the old testament

>> No.4635137
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4635137

YHWH IS A BLOODCRAVING DEMIOURGOS, THUS HE REQUIRES CONSTANT BLOOD SACRIFICES.

ON A MYTHIC LEVEL, THE STORY ILLUSTRATES THE DICHOTOMOUS NATURE OF JEWS, AND ARYANS; ABEL BEING THE ARCHETYPAL JEWISH HERDER, AND KAIN THE ARCHETYPAL ARYAN FARMER.

>> No.4635143

>>4635137
Dude they were brothers, they were both jewish.

>> No.4635144

>>4635137
>>4635137
Actually you've got it wrong, I think Abel had more Aryan characteristics, he was the more aggressive and hard, diligent worker, while Cain was a backstabber

Then again Germans are as much backstabbing Jews as Jews are, just look at how Hitler gained power in World War II, by basically betraying every treaty he entered into.

>> No.4635151

>>4635143
don't fuck around with rei
neither of them were jewish, abraham was the first kike

>> No.4635153

>>4635076
Cain gave grudgingly and not with sincere motive. Able gave his best and willingly.

Moral of the story is don't be a show off because that shit gets you killed.

>> No.4635155

>>4635124
>How?

I haven't read the Bible since childhood and my early teens. Cain and Abel are brothers who experience strife, so are Jacob and Esau. Esau was the first and favoured for hunting and bringing meat, Abel was favoured for bringing meat. I think Esau even decides to kill Jacob, doesn't he?

In any event it's really just that when I picture "possibly hairy feuding brothers from Genesis" I think of all four.

>And what does Job have to do with either?
..Why would my post have anything to do with another dude's?

>> No.4635157

>>4635124
You have now called me retarded after I have called christianity retarded twice. This is sort of meta at this point, because you're unintentionally making christianity more retarded.

>> No.4635158

who would prefer salad over lamb?

>> No.4635159

>>4635158
satan that's who

>> No.4635166

>>4635159
well satan is like a goat or something so it'd be super insensitive to eat lamb

>> No.4635170

>>4635076
To provide an actual answer to your question: in certain Jewish theology, things are not "right" or "wrong" because of some utilitarian principle: the world is God's, and if something is right, it is because it is right by God: he created this world, and the laws that go with it are part of nature. It may seem totally arbitrary to humans (chop off your foreskin, don't eat pork), but God and his law is beyond human comprehension, and it is only for us to accept His wisdom and law. And after all, Cain was not in trouble:
"Why are you furious? And why are you downcast? If you do right, won't you be accepted? But if thou do not do right, sin is crouching at the door. Its desire is for you, but you must master it"

Cain fails to live up to God's will, and subsequently falls into sin, and is punished. The moral is: obey God's law, or you will end up killing people.


>>4635155
Of course, sorry. I thought you were the other guy.

>> No.4635172

>>4635144

I think there is some sort of white power interpretation that links Cain to blacks or something.

>> No.4635240

>>4635151
>don't fuck around with rei
what rei? who's rei?

>> No.4635248
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4635248

>>4635137

>> No.4635255

>>4635125

If that had gotten in the Bibble, I wonder how things would have turned out.

>> No.4635269
File: 39 KB, 400x400, 1394134059832.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4635269

>tfw the bible is more retarded than you initially thought

>> No.4635284

I think God was probably expecting Cain to trade some of his crop to Abel for a lamb to sacrifice

I mean burnt vegetables, who the fuck likes that

>> No.4635290

>>4635107

true words

>> No.4635296

>>4635076
Because the point of the story is that jealousy is bad mkay.

>> No.4635297

Why are people so retarded as to read the Bible literally or empirically when they would never do that with another book? You'd never ask "Why did Ahab want to kill the whale?" or "Why was Hamlet sad?" Cain and Abel is part of a symbological framework (including questions of natural right and the very question of what it means to be human) that can be seen all across Genesis and the rest of the five books. Confronting a text "rationally" like this makes no sense whether it's the Bible or it's Gravity's fucking Rainbow.

>> No.4635302

>>4635125
everything about this is retarded

>according to folklore
>for some form of atheism

>> No.4635306

>>4635297
You can blame a lot of this on evangelicals and the New Atheist movement.

>> No.4635308

>>4635107
you should try reading some Freud, particularly Moses and Monotheism

>> No.4635310

>>4635297
>Why are people so retarded as to read the Bible literally or empirically when they would never do that with another book?

Because religious people claim that it's not just like any other book? Religious people claim that it's literally the best, most accurate book ever written and that doubting even a single word in it will grand you a one way ticket to the fires of hell

>> No.4635323

>>4635306
Yeah you're right. We're pretty fucked up around the Bible at the moment. I think we'll start to approach it more honestly soon, with people like Derrida and Zizek and Agamben writing crit theory about Protestantism or whatever.

>> No.4635330

>>4635297
>>4635310

Also people who are less retarded often prefer to read other books.

>> No.4635337

>>4635310
No they don't. Fundamentalists are a minority and only turned up in modern times. You're an ignorant fool.

>> No.4635343

>>4635310
>ideologues insist on reading a text in a specific particular way
>I hate ideologues and thus I should probably read that text exactly how they told me to

uh huh

>> No.4635350

>>4635297
Because the religious seek refugee in their theology when confronted with problems that should be treated rationally. Nobody would treat it like this if it was just a collection of stories and moral lessons.

Also, you're talking trash. Islam goes beyond the spiritual and gives you a juridical framework. I seriously believe Islam is a great handbook to medieval nation-building.

>> No.4635356

>>4635337
Fundamentalists became a minority after being shat on by fedorists.

>> No.4635362

>>4635076
Because it's a story written by shepherding nomads jealous at the agricultural city-states actually making civilization.

This soon followed by them running heedlessly into a desert and being surprised when they get lost. But at least it gave them plenty of time to write even more angry stories about evil agricultural societies and how their own god was much better than theirs.

Seriously, nomads are shit, just ask the Dravidians.

>> No.4635371

>>4635350
What the fuck does any of this have to do with textual analysis? Go back to /pol/ or /sci/ if you can only think ideologically.

>> No.4635392

>>4635371
You asked why, I told you why.

The Bible has been studied to death in your sense - nobody cares. It's like talking about Shakespeare's works without any fresh input.

>> No.4635397

>>4635362
First five books are largely assumed to have been written down during the Babylonian captivity. It's why the creation myths share so many similarities. Try again.

>> No.4635419

>>4635392
I really don't care to convince you because it would take a lot of work but I would just like to suggest that the way in which we read texts is constantly changing. To think that any text could ever be "studied to death" is really stupid. And it's something no one would ever say about Don Quixote, for example, and that's because people don't have the same touchy and defensive associations with Cervantes as they do with the Bible. I think perhaps the Bible has been studied to death, that is, to ideology, in YOUR sense. But many interesting writers outside of the realm of classical theology manage to write very interesting works on the Bible.

>> No.4635424

>>4635419
>implying you said anything I didn't say

>> No.4635426

>>4635076
In Islam it's because Abel offered his best lamp, while Cain offered his worst crops because he didn't want to waste the good ones.

>> No.4635437

>>4635397
Hint: a large part of that post was humorous and sarcastic in nature.

>> No.4635463

>>4635437
>gets called on BS
>"just joking guys"

okay

>> No.4635472

>>4635297
/lit/ fancies itself as the philosophy board, yet you get commentary which was outdated to Augustine of Hippo.

>> No.4635514

>>4635076
Priests like eating lamb mate. "It smells good to the lord." Read Deuteronomy.

>> No.4635526
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4635526

>>4635076
>Why did God accept Abel's offering but not Cain's?
It was explained right there, get an old king james version and stop reading the Americlap revised versions where they slowly by revision after revision change shit to suit them. e.g All the powerful characters in the bible was white or places mentioned in the bible was further north than it was in the old versions.

>> No.4635598

>>4635337
Fundamentalist creationists like Ken Ham are still quite popular, buddy.

But even if Cain killing Abel were a symbolic event, the main theme is that the harder worker gets penalized, which seems to be the prevailing theme of Christian morality anyway.

>> No.4636047

>>4635598

>Fundamentalist creationists like Ken Ham are still quite popular

Justin Beiber is also popular. TOP FUCKING LEL.

>> No.4636061
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4636061

>>4635526
You retard

>> No.4636067

>>4635302
most of the "interpretations" given here aren't any better
in Rome, Christians were considered atheists on account of their form of sacrifice

>> No.4636070

>>4636047
>Justin Beiber is also popular. TOP

Thou shalt not take my holy Lord Beiber's name in vain.

>> No.4636075

>>4635076
Because God hates vegetarians.

>> No.4636076

Poetry is man's mother tongue and the clearest manner in which to express a truth. From poetry came the definition, then the deduction and finally the induction. The evolution of language is clearly traceable to any skilled philologist.

The poet is one who communicates by imbuing the utmost significance into ever act, emotion and belief. Keeping in mind that you are reading Hebrew poetry, you should be able to see the significance quite clearly. If you only understand language to be a 'useful tool' for communicating 'information' then you do not know how to play the game of language.

>> No.4636077

Cain didn't sacrifice the best of his crops, or even good crops for that matter.

>> No.4636079

Is any passage in the Bible more nihilistic and evil than "God will provide for all that we need".?

>> No.4636081

>>4636079
>implying he doesn't

>> No.4636084

>>4636081
Tell that to the children dying in North Korean concentration camps, niggguuuuuuhhh

>> No.4636090

>>4636084
>implying children necessarily need to stay alive

Surely God knows best.

>> No.4636098

>>4636084
Filthy commies don't believe in Him

>> No.4636101
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4636101

>>4636061
Hurr durr, I can't reply intelligently, I'll just call him a retard. That'll show him\.

>> No.4636117

>>4636084
God provides principles, not sensually pleasurable consequences. Nothing about Judeo-Christian religion is hedonistic/consequentialist.

I'm not including Islam, by the way, because that religion is very sensualist and utilitarian. Judaism is a religion of familial duty. Christianity adds to that what some might call a 'Platonic' element (the association of the ultimate end with the ultimate Truth).

Modern hedonistic, feel-good Christians are reflecting modern culture and certainly not the legal-mystical-ascetic religion known as historical Christianity. This is one reason why the 'problem of evil' was not considered a problem until the early modern period.

>> No.4636143

>>4636076
poetry is shit, truly the lowest form of art

>> No.4636145

>>4635081
bitches don't know bout my veblen

>> No.4636154
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4636154

>>4636077
>Cain didn't sacrifice the best of his crops, or even good crops for that matter.
>THIS
He didn't make a large enough sacrifice and he got jelly that his lil bro got all the mirin, so he #rekt'd his ass irl b&.

>> No.4636160

>>4636154
got an irl b&

>> No.4636171

>>4636143

Let's see, we're talking about language:

>Inductively-oriented account: Full chronological, detailed account.

>Deductively-oriented account: Account organizes the most important information in a premise-conclusion format using well defined words.

>Basic account oriented around definitions: Well defined lexicon, syntax and vocabulary, formalized in some institution lays down a brief account.

>Most basic poetic account: Aesthetic, emotional and ethical content of the greatest importance is expressed etymologically and symbolically in a brief account.

>> No.4636181

>>4635297

Consider the following:

> God is good and wants his children to be saved
> In order to do this, he writes a book (through other people). This book contains everything his children need to know.
> 99% of his children are stupid and/or illiterate

The only way this religion makes any sense is if the book is meant to be taken literally. If that's not the case, God just made it VERY HARD for almost all people to comprehend what the fuck he wants.

I'm an atheist, by the way.

>> No.4636189

>>4636171
For the definitional account it should be noted that numerical information is also provided. Definitions are meant for brevity and accuracy within the context of a particular society, as the words and grammar have been formalized by an early institution of a particular society. This mode of communication usually allows for more complex information regarding rituals and architecture than a more 'poetic' account.

>> No.4636204

>>4636181
God is not a person. He doesn't 'want' like you do. He commands. His commands are issued to those meant to comprehend them.

>But Peter opened his mouth and he said, “In truth, I understand that God is no respecter of persons."

>> No.4636211

>>4636204

I'm trying to have a logical discussion here.

>> No.4636229

>>4636204
Not sure if trolling

>> No.4636231

>>4636181
God did not write a book so that his children would be saved (at least in the Christian understanding). God sent his prophets and ultimately his incarnate Son so that his children would be saved. The Bible is the record of those things, as witnessed by some people who were there and then written down - written down because that's what you do when you want some piece of knowledge to endure.

>> No.4636237

>>4636181
The message of Jesus is pretty damn clear and straightforward. We only have theology and complex biblical criticism because we want to be Christian without giving our money to the poor and leaving our life behind to be a servant of men.
The protestant jerking off over MUH FAITH was a bad influence overall, it's a complete sidestep of the main message.

I do find scholastics and christian theology fascinating but when it comes to practice you know very well what a follower of Christ does. You just don't have it in you to do it.

>> No.4636245

>>4636211

At what point have I violated the rules of logic? You're asking a modernistic and quite invalid question. Your discussion is ahistorical and meaningless.

Go, don your fedora and harass those hands-in-the-air-during-prayer Christians at the nearest mega church/mall/food court. Fat American.

>> No.4636255

>>4636231
No, sir.
The prophets and witnesses wrote the bible imbued with God's inspiration or something. The book is not just a historical account, it's the word of God.
That's why people claim it to be a perfect book.

>> No.4636260

>>4636237
I didn't understand if you are agreeing with me or not. Are you saying that only the new testament is to be taken literally?

>> No.4636269

>>4636245
Calm down idiot, you wouldn't talk like that to another man's face.
God not only commands and that's why he gave people free will. Your previous comment is absolutely useless to the discussion and reads like preacher's words.

>> No.4636289

>>4635137
o phuk

>> No.4636307

>>4636269

>man

You write like a child and have the reading comprehension to match.

>> No.4636328

>>4636307
English is not my first language. Keep attacking me and avoiding the point. Fucking internet people with their cowardice...

>> No.4636331

Since we're talking about this and all, there's been something on my mind for a long time.

In The Parable of the Lost Son (some people call it The Prodigal Son), what on Earth was the point of having the brother there? The story works perfectly the same without him except if he weren't there the father wouldn't look like such an asshole for neglecting all his hard work and acting like Mr. Prodigy is royalty. Is the brother meant to represent something?

>> No.4636484

>>4635076
Because hunter-gatherers let God decide everything: such as what they eat and when, and agriculturalists take matters into their own hands by gardening.
Think about it: it'll grow on you.

>> No.4636490

>>4635255
>the Bibble

>> No.4636514

>>4636484
are you perchance a gorilla leasing an office?

>> No.4636541

>>4635076

As far as I can remember, the God of the old testament is a little insane and requires regular burnt offerings and sacrifices (suggesting that early Christianity was cobbled together from many different Mesopotamian religious systems). Able provided a burnt offering and Cain did not. So God rejected him.


> God is dead

>> No.4636553

>>4636331
The brother is actually the focal point of the entire story. Check out pic related, it answers your question in great detail.

>> No.4636555

>>4636541
> God is dead
I see you read The Way of Kings

>> No.4636557
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4636557

>>4636553
Whoops, forgot pic.

>> No.4636565

>>4636555

Nope. But I just wiki'd it and it looks readable. I might give it a go.

>555

Congratulations on your trips.

>> No.4636591

>>4636553
>>4636557
Care to summarize?

>> No.4636596

Cus old testament god is a dick to everything.

>> No.4636645
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4636645

>>4636245
I didn't think Christians were allowed to get this buttmad

>> No.4636661

>>4635172
The other interpretation is that the curse of Cain is responsible for all the soulless giants with red hair out and about.

>> No.4636663

>>4636591
Basically, the elder brother was a representation of the pharisees that Jesus was telling the story to. He's self-righteous, arrogant, and only focused on the work he's done to gain his father's favor. Keller goes on to explain that the sin of the elder brother is even worse than that of the younger brother - while the younger brother is almost immediately remorseful and perfectly willing to acknowledge his wrongdoing, the elder brother is so caught up in his own righteousness that he doesn't even know he's doing anything wrong.

Both of them committed the fatal sin of trying to get into heaven (the father's inheritance) on their own power. The younger one thought he could just do away with the entire institution, and the older thought that he could eventually gain the inheritance by staying in the father's good graces.

The application of this is that everyone has tried to be their own salvation. We just go about saving ourselves in different ways. But the overly religious people are just as wrong as the rebels, if not more so.

>> No.4636676

>>4636663
Neat, thanks. I'll think that over.

>> No.4637136

>>4635463
how can you be so retarded...

>> No.4637139

>>4636328
>fedorad mexican atheist living in his moms basement in LA or some crap

When did /lit/ get so shitty?

>> No.4637154

>>4635083
>because reasons
Wow, I bet you laughed while playing borderlands 2/possess a tumblr account

>> No.4637178

>>4636260

He's saying modern Christians are sissy ass mother fuckers that don't have the balls to be a mother fucking Paul, who like the god damned badass that he was wrote more than two thirds of the fucking New Testament by himself in a tiny ass fucking room by candlelight without a fucking pencil sharpener, having to sharpen his shit with his fucking teeth, all the while preaching the mother fucking WORD, and escaping the mother fucking LAW, and smoking that fucking CHRONIC, and spreading that good shit and preaching that good shit and giving that good shit.

And you know what, faggot? As a Christian myself, I'm inspired by what that fucking athiest fucker has helped me to realize. That does it. The time has come. It's time to be a real Christian. Tomorrow morning, I'm going to the mall, walking up to the first vendor I see, placing my palms underneath the fucking counter, and upturning that mother fucker in a clattering ruckus onto the fucking floor.

And I'm going to preach. Mother fucker. I'm going to give.

>> No.4637179

>>4635076
"Their offerings indicated that Cain and Abel recognized their sinful state and desired God’s favor. They must have given at least some thought to Jehovah’s promise concerning the serpent and the Seed of the woman. Just how much time and effort Cain and Abel devoted to developing an approved relationship with Jehovah is not stated. But God’s reaction to their offerings provides insight into each one’s inmost thoughts"

>> No.4637216

>>4636154
no cain obv sacrificed the ganja to jah the most high.
he went crazy when he had burned it all, cause he had a psychological dependence, killing Abel in the process
>Marijuana
Not. Even. Once.

>> No.4637344

>>4635085
only reasonable answer.

>> No.4637691

>>4636154
>>4636160
go away, fast.

>> No.4638329

>>4637139
3/10

>> No.4638331

judeochristian god's a cunt?

>> No.4638338
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4638338

>>4637178
>You will never be as cool as mother fucking Paul

>> No.4638468

>>4635108
>>4635083
Are we tipping our fedoras today, my good sirs :)?

>> No.4638632

>>4637178
Das it mane. Maybe people will take Christianity seriously again if Christians actually acted like Christians instead of merely paying lip service.

>> No.4638676

>>4635122
You mean Judaism?

>> No.4639157

>>4635076
Cain just offered some fruit and veggies halfheartedly, it wasn't the best he could give. He just wanted to do bare minimum.

>> No.4639308

>>4635076
OP, if you are actually interested in questions like this about the old testament, look into Jewish commentary on it. Jewish scholars have spent lifetimes questioning every single line of the old testament.

>> No.4639427

>>4638676
The tankh is accepted in both

>> No.4639434

>>4639308
lawyer cunts innit

>> No.4639440

>>4635076
Because he's an inconsistent faggot