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/lit/ - Literature

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4610851 No.4610851[DELETED]  [Reply] [Original]

/lit/

I'm 80 pages into pic related and so far I'm not really enjoying it. Some passages are alright, but this book is so hyped.
Will it improve?

>> No.4610855

I have the same question about Snow Crash, except that I'm about halfway into it. Some of the ideas are cool, but I kinda hate the way it's written and now I think I'm just continuing solely for the sake of finishing

>> No.4610860

Finish the first book and if you don't like it abandon ship.

>> No.4610864

>>4610855

Well, Snow Crash doesn't get any better "humorwise" from where you are at. Also, the humor is like a Cracked article. I like it, but it gets old quickly in a book. That sort of thing works better in short articles.

However, there are some great info dumps about language and how the brain works. These made the book for me, but I don't know if that's your thing.

>> No.4610875

>>4610860
So, 120 pages more.
Did you abandon ship? Why?

>> No.4610877

>>4610875

I abandoned ship with like 30 pages left in the last book. The books are decent but I felt like the last books just dragged and went nowhere, so I got frustrated and quit

>> No.4610881

If you aren't enchanted you never will be. The book is mysterious and brutal at first (world building wise, compared to the rest of fantasy at least) but if you don't at least ENJOY it you're not going to like it. The Book of the New Sun is one of the most idiosyncratic series I've ever read. The first chapter could easily have been the last. It doesn't "get better". I love it.

>> No.4610909

>>4610881

What do you mean by "brutal"?

>> No.4610919

>>4610909
Abruptly complex

>> No.4610930

>>4610919
Oh.
English is not my native language. I'm bumping into several new words and I can't tell if they are made up or not.
Yes, I look up some of them, but not all.

>> No.4610938

>>4610930
None of the words used in the books are made up.

>> No.4610942

>>4610938
Really?
Does he use words from other languages?

>> No.4610944

>>4610942
No, just obscure or archaic words, some of which happen to be cognates in other languages. The first that comes to my mind is "atelier", which means workshop and means exactly that in French.

>> No.4610948

>>4610944
Oh.
In Portuguese we have "ateliê".

>> No.4610959

I just finished the first book last night and really enjoyed it. How does the rest of the series compare?

>> No.4610963

>>4610959
It gets better, enjoy the ride

>> No.4610970

What do you guys like about these books?

>> No.4610975

I made it through the first two books. I appreciate that it's a very complex and dense work, most of which probably escapes me, but it will be a while before I read the other two.

>> No.4610976

>>4610959
First 4 books are certainly worth it. Along with LotR and Gormenghast Its the best fantasy has to offer.
I was wondering, is it necessary to read Urth of the new Sun or is it a step down in quality / hurts the original ending?

>> No.4610985

>>4610970
It's an interesting take on a genre that I already found interesting. It's written in a really enjoyable, albeit unforgiving, way. The characters are strange and cool and Severian has a nice name.

>> No.4610994

>>4610970
Its like the Ulysses of Fantasy what with you having to use your brain to figure out whats really happening. Severian has a perfect memory and those people actually have a hard time processing information so youll pick up on things he didnt quite comprehend. He also tends to tell little lies to the reader that youll catch later. For example at first he says he never fucked Thecla.

>> No.4611009

>>4610851
If you don't like Wolfe's writing, you will either need to settle in and learn to like it, or read the books despite the writing. He is dense, obscure, and adventurous--a far cry from most SF/F writers. Really, in my opinion, he's amazing both in his writing and in the genius of the works themselves, and you need to get on his level. If you're unaccustomed to reading "literary" work, you might come back to Wolfe later on, after you are.

>> No.4611043

Are there any other series that compare to the Book of the New Sun? If not in content/themes, in writing?

>> No.4611085

>>4611043
Do you mean just mean SF works? And are concerned mainly about quality, or looking for works that are similar in other ways?

Hyperion by Dan Simmons has a certain literary ambition that reminds me of Wolfe (I haven't read the Hyperion sequels). Some of it is brilliant, but I don't think it's sustained nearly as well as in BotNS.

If you haven't already read it, Wolfe's The Fifth Head of Cerberus is great, and while still quite challenging (and rewarding), is more approachable than BotNS.

>> No.4611108

>>4611085
Sci-fi stuff. Mostly quality. The amount of thought he put into it is fantastic. And I liked how abrupt the jump right into felt. There wasn't really a time where I felt that I was having large amounts of explanatory information dumped on me. It fill the whole idea of Severian writing to an audience that already is familiar with what he's talking about.

Hyperion was great. The wish the quality had stayed consistent throughout the next three books. The Fall of Hyperion was alright as well and the next two were such a staggering drop in quality it's ridiculous.

I'll look into acquiring a copy of The Fifth Head of Cerberus.

>> No.4611115

>>4611085
Hyperion is very good indeed.
Never touched the Endymion books, though.

>> No.4611151

>>4611108
Well, since we've established that you like Wolfe, I'll also go out on a limb and recommend the Latro books, about an amnesiac Roman soldier, and Wizard & Knight, a take on more traditional fantasy elements. Both are just superb in so many ways, and even though Wizard & Knight are probably my least favorite Wolfe books, they're still head and shoulders above the work of all but a few other SF/F authors.

LeGuin, of course: Earthsea for fantasy, Left Hand of Darkness and The Dispossessed for SF. Stanislaw Lem, J.G. Ballard, Octavia Butler.

A couple of other "genre" (not SF) favorites of mine are:

Pontypool Changes Everything by Tony Burgess. Zombies are so played out, but this preceded most of that, and this is really a fucking crazy book about linguistics.

The Last Unicorn by Peter S. Beagle. I liked the animated film as a kid, but when I read the book a couple of months ago I was shocked at how good it was.

>> No.4611184

>>4611151
The Latro books sound really interesting. As do Wizard & Knight. It seems like Gene Wolfe never had a bad idea.

I'll be sure to look into all of them, thanks!

>> No.4611269

>>4610881
How does it compare with Steven Erikson or Glen Cook?

>> No.4611342

>>4610976
It's a slight step down but if you enjoyed Severian's journey you'll continue to do so. It's basically the fulfillment of his role as autarch ans has very little to do with Urth other than its fate.

You might move on to the Book of the Long Sun. It isn't as good, but likely takes place on a vessel similar to that which the Urth of the New Sun largely takes place on. He builds a much more distinct and fascinating religion and group of characters who reflect the pantheon.

But if you want more of the best quality Genew Wolfe, read the Fifth Head of Cerberus.

>> No.4611348

>>4611342
Also if you read the Book of the Long Sun, gather that the Outsider can be linked to and is possible Severian

>> No.4611362

>>4610938
The ones related to alien species are.

If anybody bought the Urthus Lexicon PDF and shared it with /lit/, I'd give that person THE INTERNET.

>> No.4611381

>>4610948
Funny how all these romance languages (FR, PT, IT, SP) share the same roots. But atelié comes from French, m8, even in Portuguese.

What you need to understand is that even though the guy is placing the events in "an atelier", for example, that same atelier is not always the kind of medieval you'd image (suggested by the clothes, swords and customs of Urth). That's when the puzzle first takes shape.

>> No.4611410

>>4611362
I second this, but also really want the Castle of the Otter. Though I will probably spend the 35 bucks for a used copy of the latter on amazon at some point if I ever find myself with disposable income and the thought to keep reading Gene again....

>> No.4611442

>>4611269
Haven't read Erikson. Don't like Cook. Cook's pacing is terrible and he writes violent scene after boring violent scene over and over again in the Black Company with little to no characterization and Gene Wolfe is on the opposite side of the spectrum.

>> No.4611887

>>4611184
Also check out The Dying Earth by Jack Vance.

It's not really similar to BotNS outside of being set in a distant dying future, but it's a really interesting an underrated series. Extremely well written as well.

>> No.4611956

Has anyone here read Devil in a Forest or Pandora by Holly Hollander?

Worth reading?

I love BoTNS and Latro novels

>> No.4612026

>>4611269
>How does peanut butter compare to horse shit?

>> No.4612029
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4612029

Spoilers!!!

Who's to say HE fucked Thecla. Just because he has the memory of it doesn't mean it happened. There is the alzobo, that gains the memories of those it eats. And the corridors of time. Add those two together and you get: Severian has the memories of other Severians implanted in his mind. The scheme is to make him more and more prefect, so he can pass the trial and bring about the New Sun. The aliens want him to be an evil monster, so he can reshape humanity in such a way they would make robotic slaves again. Which is what they aliens are.

>> No.4612135

I AM AFRAID TO READ THE THREAD

I JUST WANT TO SAY THAT READING THIS BOOK SERIES IS LIKE HAVING GENE WOLFE IN SIDE YOUR BRAIN AND LAUGHING AT YOUR IDIOCY

AND ITS SO VERY DREAMLIKE

>> No.4612159

>>4612135
"When we sleep," Merryn told me, "we move from temporality to eternity."
"When we wake," the Cumaean whispered, "we lose the facility to see beyond the present moment."

>> No.4612258

>>4611381
I didnt mean to imply that the word was of portuguese origin.

>> No.4612282

>>4610877
You couldn't take the 30-45 minutes to finish it?