/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.4602725]

Just saw this on /v/.

What's Infinite Jest like? Is it really that good?

[Anonymous No.4602729]

Infinite Jest is a quirky indie book by some hipster who killed himself about an adorable dysfunctional family living out their lives in a non-linear post-modern fashion.

[Anonymous No.4602731]

Is that a list of good thing? The nugget is good and beloved, right? Even when IJ was still being talked about a lot it was not unanimously good, just like that godawful NMH album.

IJ is 1000 pages of an autistic guy sperging out and no one on /lit/ has ever talked about its themes, its emotional impact, its philosophical content, nothing. 90% of the discussion of it that isn't openly trolling is strategising how to remember character names.

[Anonymous No.4602733]

Google it faggot

[Anonymous No.4602740]

>>4602731
I think it's supposed to be good, although NMH really is fucking shitty.

Then again, /mu/ in general is shitty and /lit/ isn't, so I was thinking it might be a good book.

[Anonymous No.4602743]

/v/ would be MGS2, Deus Ex or Planescape Torment.

[Anonymous No.4602736]

>/v/

The book doesn't deserve your non existent attention

[Anonymous No.4602746]

>>4602743
Maybe Morrowind because of all the TES lore discussion

or VTMB

[Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ No.4602752]

>>4602746
I think VTMB because it's a little rough around the edges and offputting to the casual, like IJ.

[Anonymous No.4602753]

>Is it really that good?
What?

None of those things are there because they are good. They are controversial in a consensual way. There is not much to be said, but it's fun to post about them and bitch about it and praise it. They are there to troll and nothing else and you may appreciate it or not.

[Anonymous No.4602754]

>>4602746

Maybe, but I'm getting a "highly praised yet highly controversial" vibe from the picture. Most people would agree that Morrowind and VTMB are good, I think.

[Anonymous No.4602756]

>>4602743
It would be Planescape Torment for sure

[Anonymous No.4602764]

I thought /v/'s choice would be Team Fortress 2.

[Anonymous No.4602779]

>irrelevant weaboo garbage
>antiquated slavshit
>best car for picking up dudes
>pretentious wankfest
>see above
>see above

[Anonymous No.4602780]

>>4602743
Maybe in 2006

[Anonymous No.4602783]

OP. No. That is not a good book. A while back on /lit/ the troll thing to do was to recommend that book to newfriends and wait until they inevitably come back a couple days later and ask "Wtf am I reading".

I don't really know anything else on that list, but I heard /a/ has the biggest boner for Evangelion so I'm going to assume that list is for the accepted masterpieces of each board. If so, I think Gravity's Rainbow, Lolita or perhaps something by Faulkner would be a much more accurate representation of /lit/'s tastes.

I've only read the first fourth of Infinite Jest but that was enough for me to write it off.

[Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ No.4602784]

>>4602764
It's not pseudo-intellectual enough.

[Anonymous No.4602788]

>>4602740
>NMH really is fucking shitty.

say that to my face fucker not online and see what happens

[Anonymous No.4602790]

>>4602784
Can video games be pseudo-intellectual? Can they even be intellectual? I'm legitimately curious. How far have video games progressed since I stop paying attention to them ~2007?

[Anonymous No.4602792]

>>4602740
>NMH
>shitty
You probably shitpost on /mu/ don't you?

[Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ No.4602794]

>>4602790
>How far have video games progressed since I stop paying attention to them ~2007?
Backwards, if anything.

[Anonymous No.4602799]

>>4602790
There seems to be a decent push in the indie market towards games that are more artistic.
Probably the best "art" game I've come across is an older Russian game called Pathologic.

[Anonymous No.4602800]

That list doesn't denote preference, it's just is the first thing people usually mention when they talk about the board

[Anonymous No.4602802]

>>4602764
Half Life 2 would be a better choice, I think. When that game came out it was beyond revolutionary.

[Anonymous No.4602804]

>>4602790
Don't bother. There's been a lot of acclaim for some recent "intellectual games" but it's mainly autists who have never read a book outside of highschool or watched a movie outside of the new blockbusters being impressed by extremely basic philosophy.

[Anonymous No.4602817]

>browsing /v/

pls go

[Anonymous No.4602819]

Infinite Jest has some of the worst prose I have ever read, I stopped after a few paragraphs because I couldn't take it any longer.

[Anonymous No.4602823]

>>4602802
bullshit

[Anonymous No.4602869]

>>4602725
>Drive

Also, /v/s Goat is obviously Planescape: Torment

[Anonymous No.4602871]

>>4602790
>Can video games be pseudo-intellectual?
Yes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_u18_BKczg

[Anonymous No.4602877]

>>4602784
>buttfly even has opinions on videogames now

[Anonymous No.4602880]

>>4602871

[Anonymous No.4602881]

>>4602790
It's just a medium. It has the potential for much more than what is currently being used for.

[Anonymous No.4602885]

>>4602871
How is a parody supposed to demonstrate that vidya can be pseudo-intellectual

[Anonymous No.4602895]

>>4602885
Just think about the way the Bioshock infinite was presented and received for a bit, and you'll understand.

[Anonymous No.4602896]

>>4602802

Half-Life 2 was only "revolutionary" in the sense that it did all the things Bioshock Infinite did, but nearly ten years earlier. To call this revolutionary kind of misses the point: that there was nothing praiseworthy about what it was doing to begin with.

Of course the OP's chart doesn't really play into this at all, because it's nothing more than "here is what you should post about if you want to start a shit storm". So in that light, anything will work for /v/ because /v/'s userbase are literal apes flinging shit.

>>4602799

played The Void at all? Same devs.

[Anonymous No.4602899]

>>4602790
Metal Gear Solid 2 is super meta
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-2YuPGYabw

[Anonymous No.4602902]

>>4602885
I think he may just be implying that vidya can't be.

And to be honest, I think video games will always be limited to a certain level of low art. Like that Dante's Inferno game. It has absolutely nothing on the original but if the developers didn't make it a God of War clone they'd be out of a job. Video games need to be played first and foremost, they need to be easy, digestable fun. They can't really match the complexity of a novel.

[Anonymous No.4602904]

>>4602899
Metal Gear is god-tier.
Portal is god-tier

[Anonymous No.4602906]

>>4602902

Reactionary nonsense, the same kind of attitude that churns out shit like Bioshock: Infinite and Spec Ops: The Line. A cancer is you.

[Anonymous No.4602914]

>>4602906
Great rebuttal there.

[Anonymous No.4602927]

>>4602899
I don't think 'meta' really does it justice. Meta is 'putting lots of references to things that people are likely to recognize, especially popculture'. MGS2's focus lies in the analysis and criticisms of its medium through that medium.

[Anonymous No.4602928]

>>4602914
I agree on the non ironic sense of the sentence

[Anonymous No.4602932]

>>4602783
Evangelion is not a universally accepted masterpiece by any stretch of the imagination. Much like the Nugget, everything on this list is something that has been talked to hell and back on the board for whatever reason, be it a common recommendation to newfags or a 'babby's first' as Evangelion and the album ITAOTS tend to be. Infinite Jest was a good fit, although its fad has kind of died out.

[Anonymous No.4602933]

>>4602914

I'm glad you agree. The only reason games are "limited" to the realm of low art is because the producers of games insist on treating their audience like retards (WAIT A MINUTE, THAT CARD). Video games only "need" to be easy and digestable because developers, and the people holding the developers' leashes, are too lazy to try anything else. Despite this, there are plenty of videogames which possess great depth and complexity, but I'll bet you don't know shit about them.

[Anonymous No.4602939]

>>4602790
It's a constant cycle of one man projects made by hipsters with CS degrees that are just Mario games with a heavy-handed messages.

The thing with video games is that it takes so much technical work to get anything playable. It's impossible for a guy with a dream to realize it by himself or for a group of drones to come together and make something meaningful. Art gets in the way of usability and vice versa.

[Anonymous No.4602944]

>>4602927
I think the first definition is a vulgar hyped version of the second one

[Anonymous No.4602945]

>>4602928
Too bad you provide no explanation as to how exactly vidya can possibly break out of its current parameters. Games which are considered intellectual in this sphere are a drop in the ocean compared to their literary equivalents. Sure, at least they touch upon interesting subjects, but its no real comparison.

Video games are too driven by pre-existing demands, either commercial or simply that of the need for gameplay. Even indie games, where intellectualism supposedly has the best chance to thrive. Even those developers who do make an effort to produce "art" are few and far between, and as I've said before, it doesn't compare.

If you'd like to give some examples please do.

[SOMA™ !!1pMpfJu9Pyw No.4602942]

>>4602740
Yep, it's a really shitty album alright

[Anonymous No.4602948]

>>4602740
NMH has a much higher critical consensus behind it than Infinite Jest

[Anonymous No.4602951]

>>4602942
Movie critics praise shitty superhero movies.
Game critics praise shitty CoD clones.
Music critics praise shitty indie crap.

[Anonymous No.4602952]

>>4602933
Lol feeling real angsty aren't you. Don't take it personally ffs.

As I said before, examples please.

[Anonymous No.4602960]

Interactive computer programs have great artistic potential, but "video games", at least by current definition, do not.

[Anonymous No.4602961]

>>4602942
Christgau going against the grain as per usual

[Anonymous No.4602962]

>>4602951
Even Piero Scaruffi called it a 7.5/10.

[Anonymous No.4602965]

>>4602939

>It's impossible for a guy with a dream to realize it by himself or for a group of drones to come together and make something meaningful.

Oh well, if it's IMPOSSIBLE then I guess we can swear off the whole medium, right? What you've expressed in this thread is nothing more elaborate than "AAA megastudio console games are watered-down least-common-denominator crap!" No shit, champ. For an encore, tell me about how the existence of Michael Bay's Transformers (or whatever) invalidates the medium of film.

>>4602952

Already mentioned The Void.

[Anonymous No.4602973]

>>4602725


Kindly requesting these chart 4chan made a while ago where each board defined all the other boards with some board related work

The /lit/ one for example, defined all the other boards as a book, /lit/ defined itself as 'the confederacy of dunces', /b/ as fight club, /fit/ as 'sun and steel' by mishima; etc...

[Anonymous No.4602975]

>>4602792
That entire board is one big shitpost.

[Anonymous No.4602991]

>>4602965
With the current technical constraints it is impossible, or at least practically unfeasible.

You take one dreamer and would take him like a decade to fully realize his vision; think about how long it took Phil Fish to make a Mario puzzle game with hieroglyphics.

You take a dreamer in a managerial capacity and twenty dudes from the corporate system and you get a normal ass video game with a weird story.

You take twenty dreamers and nothing would ever get done.

An author needs a pencil, a grasp of a language, and an idea. A musician needs a guitar, a tape recorder, and an idea. A film maker needs a working camera and an idea. A video game designer needs to compile code and bug test and texture models and make an ergonomic control scheme, etc etc etc, AND have an idea. The medium makes your art literally unusable if it crashes on the start screen or something like that.

[Anonymous No.4603042]

Gameplay design can be art. Videogames are at their best when they place function before aesthetics and any artistic values. This is why shit like the modern wave of indie art games, bioshock infinite and last of us are terrible.

Then again I'm one of those people that thinks games were better when they weren't trying to be "artistic" or mature. Especially when the best games in recent memory are things like Demon's Souls, Bayonetta and Donkey Kong.

[Anonymous No.4603045]

/v/ would be Dark Souls

[Anonymous No.4603085]

>>4602725

it takes time and work to read it but i think it's absolutely worth it. unless stephen king is all you ever wish to read. but then your question would make no sense.

>> i'm the only honest faggot in this sea of cancer

[Anonymous No.4603095]

>>4602804
Yup, this. It's like those people who read Vonnegut and think they're on the deep end of the pool.

[Anonymous No.4603102]

>>4603095
>think they're on the deep end of the pool.
>on

We Jesus now?

[Anonymous No.4603146]

>>4602962
7.5 for scruffles is a huge fucking deal, actually

[Anonymous No.4603252]

Why a Miata? Is /o/ full of faggots or something. What a gay car.

[Anonymous No.4603286]

>>4602725
>What's Infinite Jest like? Is it really that good?
It's really that Iconic. I woudn't say that means it's the best book, just that it's really important to /lit.
Whether it's about "loving it" or "hating it" or making fun of it.
/lit loves to talk about pynchon, wallace, and murakami.

[Anonymous No.4603331]

>>4603286
and joyce and mccarthy

[Anonymous No.4603347]

>>4602740
Retard pls go

[Anonymous No.4603411]

>>4602725
This list isn't "the best of" or "the shittiest thing" or "universally liked by the board" The common theme of this list is "The most overdiscussed item"

>>4602740
>I think it's supposed to be good
wrong
>NMH really is fucking shitty.
also wrong, though admittedly, you're entitled to your opinion.

For /v/, the most overdiscussed item is probably Half-life, TF2, or just Valve in general. Remember all those /v/irgins who went to see gaben on his birthday and sell him a hat?

I would put the Orange Box as the definitive /v/ work.

[Anonymous No.4603422]

>Infinite Jest
>good

No discernible talent.

[Anonymous No.4603466]

>Infinite Jest
>not Ulysses

[Anonymous No.4603469]

>>4602790
>Can video games be pseudo-intellectual
Indie gaming nowadays is all about pretending you're deep while not knowing anything about anything

[Anonymous No.4604270]

>>4603411
I see you havent been to /v/ in many years.

It's all about Dark Souls now. At least until Smash is released.

[Anonymous No.4604474]

>>4604270
You're severely misunderstanding the pattern of the above image. Half life, steam, and gaben have been a larger discussion point on /v/ than Dark Souls has. Yes, Dark Souls is popular, but nobody is making ironic pillowcases, posters, and other effigies of the developer, nobody is making a field trip to visit the devs. The combined games of the Orange Box are STILL, years later, being discussed on /v/. Gaben is the type of icon on /v/ as Mangum is on /mu/. This is not a list of "things the people on the board like now" or else NMH would not be on that image.

The amount of Valve and OrangeBox related OC that exists on /v/ is so invasive that it's easy to take it for granted. Ironic portal jokes, Gentlemen, only the dead can know peace from this evil, all of it takes for granted that you've played The Orange Box because it is the iconic work of /v/.

The very fact that your post reflects that smash will be the next flavor of the month to eclipse Dark Souls in terms of content further proves your misunderstanding. Moist Nuggest aren't a flavor of the month discussion point on /k/. Drive isn't a Flavor of the month film on /tv/, ITAOTS isn't flavor of the month music. All of these works are board definitive because they have a lot of notoriety on the board and they connect to a lot of board culture.

tl;dr, The list is about enduring works that define board culture, not currently popular items.

[Anonymous No.4604510]

>>4603146
>pretty big deal

8 is huge, 8.5+ is huge fucking.

a 7.5 there is more significant than a BNM from pitchfork but not as significant as all those 10/10s up there

[Anonymous No.4604567]

>>4602725
Seeing as you have infinite jest and Neutral Milk Hotel on that list next to the boards I can only assume(correctly) that, that pic states what each board uses to troll "new comers" with.

Some of them are wrong

/a/ - Ask for an anime to watch Tells new comers to watch Boku No Pico

/mu/ - Ask for music tells you to listen to Neutral Milk Hotel

/tv/ - When you ask for a movie they tell you Problem Child 2 the electric boogaloo

/lit/ - When asks for a good book etc, etc is told to read Infinite Jest

/v/ - I for what they use

[Anonymous No.4604609]

>>4604567
>I can only assume(correctly) that, that pic states what each board uses to troll "new comers" with.
Hey smartass if 3/5 of them don't fit the theme is it really a "(correct)" assumption?

[Anonymous No.4604618]

>>4602991
>An author needs a pencil, a grasp of a language, and an idea. A musician needs a guitar, a tape recorder, and an idea. A film maker needs a working camera and an idea. A video game designer needs to compile code and bug test and texture models and make an ergonomic control scheme, etc etc etc, AND have an idea. The medium makes your art literally unusable if it crashes on the start screen or something like that.

>games need bug tests yet novels don't need editors
>musicians don't need a mixing deck
>films are made by one person alone
you're really full of shit you who that right?

[Anonymous No.4604621]

>>4604618
*know that
urgh

[Anonymous No.4604634]

>>4604618
No you're missing what he's saying. There are high barriers in all forms of production, but the difference is that the barrier to even make anything that exists as the medium is so much higher for vidya than it is for the other media forms. Although you SHOULD have an editor for a book, you don't actually have to have one just to write. You have to have all kinds of expertise, time invested, and hardware to make even a minimal game.

His diagnosis is right on.

[Anonymous No.4604639]

>>4604618
The sheer amount of man hours and technical knowledge needed for a usable product isn't even comparable between games and other mediums.

[Anonymous No.4604656]

>>4602790
They could be,but they aren't.

And intellectual game would be involve taking various mind altering drugs while going through a world whose sound track is subtly altered according to your stride and action, shit like that.

[Anonymous No.4604665]

>>4604639
>saying this on /lit/

Joyce wrote his second book for 17 years, so you're damn right. Vidya, being commercial product, must be finished in time to fit within the current graphical generation of gaming, so development doesn't take more than 4 years at most.

[Anonymous No.4604668]

>>4604665
I amend that, it was his third novel and his fourth book.

[Anonymous No.4604685]

>>4604665

Dwarf Fortress has been in development for more than seven years. Dungeon Crawl has been under development in one form or another for seventeen. I think you are just reducing "games" to "big-budget $60 games for the console market" without any real justification for doing so.

[Anonymous No.4604687]

>>4604609
Doesn't change the fact that /lit/ trolls people to read a long cat long book about tennis.

[Anonymous No.4604690]

>>4604665
Saying that "video games" only includes studio titles and applying the constraints of studio titles to the whole medium is like saying "film" is only something that is in your local movie theater and then for sale at Best Buy on bluray.

That is to say, you're wrong.

[Anonymous No.4604703]

>>4604687
Correct, but that isn't the point. Yes, people falsely recommend IJ, but people also recommend NMH and Drive sincerely. The point isn't that this and others are all "troll suggestion," even if one is a troll suggestion. That's like saying, IJ is a book, so I don't know about the other items, but this must be a list of books. Except that the other items aren't books so it's wrong. Understand?

[Anonymous No.4605461]

>mfw people seriously think all the Infinite Jest recs are ironic just because they didn't like it

[Anonymous No.4605970]

>>4605461
>mfw FUCK OFF
You faggets had me waste weeks of my life with that shit, fuck you. Have a nice day.

Sincerely Fuck off.

[Anonymous No.4606001]

>>4602725
>/tv/ drive
confirmed for the most pleb chan

[Anonymous No.4606009]

>>4602973
that sounds funny. anyone have this? if not i might make one.

[Anonymous No.4606012]

>>4602902
>digestable

being this illiterate

[Anonymous No.4606023]

>>4602973

I wish your picture was a real book. I'd buy that shit. I'll probably become a 'content curator' and pick the best threads from the archive and publish some small batch artisanal best-of-/lit/ edition and get cash money hoes.

[Anonymous No.4606260]

>>4602743
Deus ex

[Anonymous No.4606328]

There's a lot of disparaging video games here simply because they don't have "complex, deep messages" like novels do. That is an impaired understanding of art. Paintings, even great ones, don't always have messages. Many times they do, but it is optional. Beauty or form or atmosphere is the focus and I think video games have deilvered this already.

If you reduce art, even in literature, to their "message," you lose the point of art. At that point, why not just read philosophy?

[Anonymous No.4606397]

>>4602895
The game mechanics and the difficulty od the game don't have to do nothing and don't make worse the lore and the history that pretends to be told

[Anonymous No.4606406]

>>4606397

Honestly having trouble interpreting this post.

[Anonymous No.4606437]

>>4606406
"The game mechanics and the difficulty of the game have nothing to do with it and don't make the lore and the story that the game tries to tell worse" was what I gathered

It's bullshit by the way, why play games if you don't care about the gameplay?

[Anonymous No.4606445]

>>4606397
What the fuck are you talking about

[Anonymous No.4606478]

>>4604665
>>4604668
nice slip, thanks for letting us know in advance you're a fucking moron

[Anonymous No.4606525]

>>4606001
Trolling material is what it is. And for the subtle anti-jew imagery.

[Anonymous No.4606548]

>>4604685
>Dwarf Fortress has been in development for more than seven years
So I ask, how are they not comparable?

Most writers spend years working on their big projects, but a lot of them are also just rushing out books for money. Some devs spend years working on their big projects, but a lot of them are also just rushing out games for money. Doesn't seem too different to me.

[Anonymous No.4606613]

>>4606437
Of course it is bullshit. My point is that to be an "intellectual piece" don't have to have a good gameplay but a good story to tell

[Anonymous No.4606627]

夢日記 has been the best work of art i have ever experienced, more than any literature, or any film.
Video games are a Young medium that has had a troubled begging, because of the early constraints, they couldn't develop past repetitive and mindless, if colorful, toys, that in response, found a use in the market as being targeted towards children, now, this doesn't mean that even back then there weren't artistic games, but they were very limited, and the stigma of video games being for children hasn't cleared even today.
Being as it is, off all the mediums, video games are the hardest to make, you must have technical knowledge just to make the colors on the screen move when you input commands, this, has to merge with things like the story, the designs, settings, soundtrack, making a game is hard, harder than writing a book, or composing music, so almost always you need a team of developers, and they need funding, and the funding comes from market interests, who still see games as being a "thing for kids" and whose main goal is profit.
This is not to say that its impossible for a lone man to create games, but it requires extraordinary talent that few, even accomplished individuals in other mediums, do not posses.
\My favorite franchise in gaming, and anything else, is 東方 This whole franchise is the work of a single individual, but he has to be a Programmer, Game Director, Game Producer, Character Designer, Illustrator, Game Designer, Music Composer and Novelist.
That is whats needed to make your own game, while any fool can grab a pen and paper and become a best selling author.

The point is, in time, games can prove themselves as a true artistic medium, and maybe even, surpass all of them and become the best.

[Anonymous No.4606632]

I saw that image on /v/ too. I've played a lot of games and watched my fair share of movies and anime, now trying to get into /lit/.

My first buy was goddamn Infinite Jest.
I got trolled, seriously? My book gets here on in 15 days and it seemed interesting!
Recommend me entry-level literature, please. I'd seriously recommend NGE, Deus Ex and Drive to newcomers...

[Anonymous No.4606656]

>>4606632
There is a wiki you know?

[Anonymous No.4606674]

>>4602754
Drive is not highly praised or highly controversial.

[Anonymous No.4606746]

>>4606656
Yeah, I know. I got Brave New World and Beyond Good and Evil from there. Loved both.

I just want to know if I fell into a "boku no pico" trap.

[Anonymous No.4607114]

>>4602790

Commentary in video games doesn't seem to really get much further than video games. The most popular theme nowadays is addressing player agency (Farcry 3, Ken Levine projects, Spec Ops: The Line, etc), which is only really worth looking at if you're already interested in games and gaming. AAA games have attempted to branch out a bit (The Last of Us as a paean to humanization of the victims of war crimes and a rejection of utilitarian calculus), but it's always heavy handed, beating you over the head with its message over and over and over again.

Indie games have done more interesting things of late, with games like Prison Architect addressing societal issues with the common sim game structure, but they're mostly exploring the different ways a video game can be used to communicate a narrative. This kind of experimentation is necessary for the genre to grow, but it's disheartening to see that the experimentation is all there is to it. Even in some of the more worthwhile recent indie games (The Yawhg, The Stanley Parable, FJORDS), the intellectual part of the game is either second to the gameplay or largely addresses only gaming-related topics (mostly player agency).

Video games will probably be worthwhile somewhere down the road, but it will come from the indie scene where 1-5 man teams can have a vision and make it happen. It's getting much easier to make a game, which can only help the medium to grow intellectually. But, sadly, we aren't to a point where intellectual games are a thing yet.

And projects like Press Select, a publisher devoted to critical works about video games, are a nice sight to see. The guy who founded it wrote Killing Is Harmless, which was a very confused book that didn't have a lot to end in the end, but encouraging people to think critically about the medium can't be anything but good.

[Anonymous No.4607172]

>>4606674
What? Yes, it is.

[Anonymous No.4607177]

>>4602790
Joseph Conrad is my favorite author and I enjoyed Spec Ops: The Line more than Apocalypse Now

[Anonymous No.4607236]

Everyone can talk about how Infinite Jest is only mentioned ironically or is shitty for the sake of edge, but I still love it. I STILL LOVE YOU INFINITE JEST.

[Anonymous No.4607595]

>>4607114
This guy gets it. >>4602790 if you want to play a game post 2007 that is intellectual/pseudo intellectual then your best bet is Spec Ops the line. People are very divided on it but for what it's worth I think it's the best attempt at realising a vision other than "shoot da bad guis :D". But as mentioned previously, games are only interested in exploring themes relevant to interactivity and thus, games, for bettter or worse.

[Anonymous No.4607784]

>>4602973
:3

[Anonymous No.4607810]

>>4607172
>Highly praised

Nope. Even on /tv/ there is a large split.

>Highly controversial

Not even in the slightest. There is little-to-no controversy around it other than deciding how mediocre it is.

[Anonymous No.4607820]

>>4602939
>It's impossible for a guy with a dream to realize it by himself or for a group of drones to come together and make something meaningfu
what is classical music

[Anonymous No.4607827]

>>4607820
and film

[Anonymous No.4607829]

>>4607114
>the intellectual part of the game is either second to the gameplay or largely addresses only gaming-related topics

Gameplay needs to be the focal point of... games. It's how they're played; and it's critical that it's translated fluidly and properly.

The games that are doing things like addressing player agency are more worthwhile than games addressing societal-issues that the other mediums have already tackled countless times. They need to stick to what make videogames a unique medium rather than rely on cliche stories -- or even be story-centric, at all.

[Anonymous No.4607979]

>>4607829

Games like Thomas Was Alone are a good example of gameplay really coming second in a game in a very impactful way. The atmosphere and story of the game are paramount. The gameplay is nice, but it's just a simple platformer that doesn't try to innovate the way a game is played so much as it tries to innovate what that format can be used to say. A game has to have good gameplay, of course, but there are a lot of formulas out there that have been proven to work. There's no need to reinvent the wheel if all you want is an interactive platform for your message.

And if you're not looking for cliche stories, boy howdy are you looking in the wrong medium. I can't remember the last AAA game I played that didn't have a cliche story. Some have been well executed, sure, but they're all pretty rote stuff.

[Anonymous No.4607985]

>>4602729
see, the entire book is about how it isn't post modern, and you can't even fucking grasp that.

[Anonymous No.4609360]

>>4606001
b-but tit cow chan is in the movie.

[Anonymous No.4609585]

>>4602725
This is a troll picture. Neutral Milk Hotel should have been an obvious sign. No one on /mu/ actually likes them, it's all sarcasm. Seriously, have you tried listening to their albums? They are complete shit.

[Anonymous No.4609805]

>>4607114
>(The Last of Us as a paean to humanization of the victims of war crimes and a rejection of utilitarian calculus)

Is this serious?

When will fucking literary faggots quit imposing their narrow minded view that video games will only be a respectable medium when it starts taking on 'intellectual' meaningful issues.

[Anonymous No.4609837]

>>4602725
OP, go to this thread, and don't sweat the spoilers, it's not that kind of book.

>>4602334

[Anonymous No.4610049]

>>4609805
>When will fucking literary faggots quit imposing their narrow minded view that video games will only be a respectable medium when it starts taking on 'intellectual' meaningful issues.

I;m not taking sides but I'm completely curious, what do you think makes a respectable medium if it does not, in your view, include having the capacity to integrate higher levels of public dialogue.
Like, what about MGS2, arguably the first game to achieve this level of art? Isn't that one of the foremost examples of games as art?

[Anonymous No.4610061]

>>4609805
Why should someone take a medium seriously if its sole purpose is entertainment? That's like taking porn seriously as a medium.

There's nothing wrong with intelligent and thought provoking vidya as long as the gameplay is good. Same thing applies to books, movies, television, etc.

[Anonymous No.4610065]

>>4607114

>Farcry 3, Ken Levine projects, Spec Ops: The Line

All of these games pay lip service to the notion of player agency while doing nothing remarkable AS GAMES, and none of them have anything to say about player agency that the Marathon trilogy didn't say already twenty goddamn years ago. Marathon is also much better as a shooter than any of these games and free. Go play it, for god's sake, and stop promoting big-budget bullshit as being at the forefront of the medium just because it's where the advertising money goes.

[Anonymous No.4610066]

>>4602927
Actually no, meta means metafiction. Which is fiction that is aware that it is fiction. An example would be an author talking directly to the reader about his fictional story in a novel, or a character in a film looking to the camera and talking to the audience.

[Anonymous No.4610079]

>>4602945
Pretty much all art is saturated with nonintellectual pointless drivel. Literature, film, music, and yes, even video games.

Good and profound literature is just as much a drop in the ocean as in any other medium, a small drop in a sea of pointless genre fiction and smutty romance fics. The only reason it appears to be more is because literature has had over a thousand years to evolve and refine itself, most of the trash being lost on the way side.

Videogames have been around for almost forty years. And if you only consider videogames with story to them, the number falls to thirty. I think they're doing wquite well for a medium that young.

[Anonymous No.4610299]

>>4602743
>not picking F.E.A.R.

[Anonymous No.4610573]

>>4602973
I know you probably didn't make that image, but I've never seen it and found it fucking fantastic, so thank you

[Anonymous No.4610582]

>>4607784
>/mu/
>Diary of a Young Girl

Fucking fantastic

[Anonymous No.4610619]

>>4610049
As of right now, with our current technology, we are not capable of meaningful gameplay interactions without severely hindering the restrict ability of what the player can actually do.

It's a direct correlation almost entirely, an inverse parabola, as one is focused upon the other is shuddered.

As of now, time tells again and again that the best games, the most enjoyable, were ones who held focus upon gameplay, and still had an entertaining story alongside it.

When you try and force deep meanings into games, you get Gone Home, a nostalgia simulator, or The Last of Us, which tries to have meaningful character development which is thrown away every time you're forced to kill forty bandits who are generic evil men for the sake of the gameplay.

MGS2 isn't art. It's a fun game, that also had a ridiculous story that is a Japanese man's perception of American reality.

Each medium has its own abilities and things that it should be advancing; we should not be forcing video games into some cinematic literary drive.

>>4610061
I agree with your last statement, but your question seriously lacks any understanding of what you just asked

[Anonymous No.4610636]

>>4610619
>MGS2 isn't art. It's a fun game, that also had a ridiculous story that is a Japanese man's perception of American reality.

How are these mutually exclusive?

[Anonymous No.4610692]

>>4604510
7.5 is a huge deal - read his review on it, I'd guess about 90% of his reviews are 6/10 and under. Not to mention his ratings aren't based on artistic weight etc., but an albums innovativity. He isn't a fan of music, per se, he is a historian; once again, take a look at his site.

[Anonymous No.4610704]

/v/ would possibly be Diablo 2, Ocarina of Time, Majora's Mask, Wind Waker or something other I've forgotten.

[Anonymous No.4610745]

>>4610636
The creator himself has no intention of art, nor does his company or his fans.

Art has sincerity to it; not in its execution but in its inception.

[AnelCrist !m9jxTLhLcw No.4610777]

>Infinite Jest
>Not Finnegans Wake.

[Anonymous No.4610789]

>>4610745
>The creator himself has no intention of art, nor does his company or his fans.

I agree with one of the three. But, have you actually explored how insane the artistry and detail of this game is? Kojima had a blank check because of the success of MGS and used ti to make an artistic triumph.

Also, posting this inforgraph, but I don't necessarily agree with the writers view when he starts explicitly talking about games as art.

[Anonymous No.4610791]

>>4602731
>>4602740
>NMH
>bad

sure is pleb here

[Anonymous No.4610793]

>>4610789
oops

[Anonymous No.4610814]

>>4610793
Are you fucking joking? That image was made a long time ago to make MGS3 fans angry as fuck.

Also, Kojima said in an interview the character of Raiden was designed to attract female players. He thought Snake was too masculine.

[Anonymous No.4610837]

>>4602942
>thinking any opinion other than Scaruffi's matters
>shiggy

[Anonymous No.4610888]

>>4602725
Evangelion, except for a few episodes, is incredibly average

ITAOTS is one of the worst albums that I've ever seriously tried to enjoy. It's rated so highly, comes so recommended by everyone, and then I listen to it and it sounds like a hillbilly is screeching tone-deaf moans into the early morning. Some of the musical pieces are ok, but any good is completely countered by this jackass's voice. His voice is almost like nails on a chalkboard, and most vocal pieces across songs sound identical

I've never seen Drive but I, similarly, cannot imagine it being that good.

DFW is overrated, though not bad

I dislike that car, but the gun is top notch

/v/ would probably be a Bethesda game, if we're continuing the trend of things that boards claim to be 10/10, but are actually mediocre

[Anonymous No.4610885]

>>4610793
Where is that video where that one bro explores the philosophy of the game?

[Anonymous No.4610912]

>>4610793
>>4610885
Nevermind, I found it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-2YuPGYabw

[Anonymous No.4610929]

>>4610912
It's funny how this guy makes a video "explaining" MGS2, when a Snatcher fan-site "explained" everything he covers years prior.

[Anonymous No.4610943]

>>4610888

The car is not incredibly fashionable these days, but for pure driving enjoyment you could look no further.

[Anonymous No.4610953]

>>4610814

How are these things mutually exclusive?
I can make an infographic to make people mad and also have it be true or honest analysis.

[Anonymous No.4610984]

>>4610888
Pretty sure all the images there are at least semi-ironic, since they're all board memes.

[Anonymous No.4611038]

Forgive me for my idiocy but anyone know the name of that album from the /mu/ picture?

[Anonymous No.4611062]

>>4611038
In the Aeroplane Over The Sea by Neutral Milk Hotel

If you're into indie or alternative at all, check it out.

[Anonymous No.4611075]

>>4611038
Master of Puppets by Metallica

[Anonymous No.4611100]

>>4611062
Thank you good sir

[Anonymous No.4611103]

>>4611075
>that fucking art