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/lit/ - Literature


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4576894 No.4576894[DELETED]  [Reply] [Original]

>There are people that believe that this is "good" poetry.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwvdOum4ed0

>> No.4576909
File: 20 KB, 638x547, 1392493255674.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4576909

>spoken poetry

Not even once.

>> No.4576921

>>4576909
People that believe spoken poetry is a form of art disgust me.

>> No.4576925

>>4576909
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWiyKgeGWx0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NssnanW93fI

>> No.4576929

>>4576894
>there are people that believe there is "good" poetry
thoroughly enjoyed that piece, funny and too true.

>> No.4576938

>>4576921
>>4576909
Agreed. Why would anyone ever speak Shakespeare or the Odyssey aloud? The very thought of it disgusts me and screams of tasteless plebian.

>> No.4576937

>>4576929
Well there is good poetry, unless you're trying to come off as an e/lit/ist asshole.

>> No.4576941

>>4576938
Ah, let me rephrase that.
>People that believe MODERN spoken poetry is a form of art disgust me

>> No.4576944

>>4576941
I mean, holy shit, it doesn't use "thou"! Clear not fit for the ears, only the eyes.

>forgetting that postmodern poetry style was inspired by improv jazz

>> No.4576945

>>4576938
You know what I was referring to when I said spoken poetry. I meant this urban race centric drivel.

>> No.4576946

>>4576945
God forbid poetry talk about any race other than the white one.

>> No.4576949
File: 222 KB, 600x400, 9531341234134.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4576949

>>4576937
there's no good poetry just like there's no good art. what can 'make or break' a poem generally comes down to how it satisfies technicalities and how it subjectively impacts the reader. as far as technicalities go, rules are arbitrary. as far as impact goes, it's a subjective experience for everyone.

>> No.4576951

>>4576946
No, I just hate it when people can't get over things that happened years ago. Not attempting at being racist but they can't move on. Than again all types of people can't move on.

>> No.4576958

>>4576946
God forbid they talk about anything besides race.

>> No.4576959

>>4576949
You know thank you for that, you've changed my out look on things man. It is all subjective. (Hopefully you don't think i'm being sarcastic, i'm being extremely honest)

>> No.4576960

>>4576945
So you point to the worst example of spoken poetry and condemn it all?

I can't even argue for modern spoken poetry—I don't think I've even read/heard any. But I think it might be a bit of a stretch to fully dismiss it.

>> No.4576965
File: 108 KB, 253x253, 1388417229212.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4576965

>big as shit

Apparently the white man has a secret plot to keep thesauruses out of the hands of blacks.

>> No.4576966

>>4576951
Fucking Homer just didn't shut up about that stupid war, dawg.

>>4576958
Are you saying they don't?

>> No.4576968

Are songs spoken poetry? Operas? Musicals?

I don't know where the line is.

>> No.4576973

All I heard was some bitching and moaning with some rhymes thrown in.

>> No.4576979

>>4576966
Fine, i'll go even DEEPER just for you anon. I hate it when African American Teenagers bitch out another race based on things that happened before she was born.

>> No.4576982

>>4576979
I agree with you. She didn't have shit to do with slavery.

>> No.4576984

>>4576982
Than apologies for sounding like a ranting shitposter. I can't handle this much bullshit in one day.

>> No.4576988

>>4576984
I'm a different person. Note the lack of a tripcode.

>> No.4576993

>>4576988
Sorry man, long night.

>> No.4576998

>>4576979
I'll bet that Native American grudge really curdles your dainty complexion into cheese too, eh? You little bourgeois pissant.

>> No.4577000

>>4576998
Gah, you know it! It's as if you've looked into a crystal ball.

>> No.4577008

>>4577000
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUMDNDQJ_1k

Yes, yes, kick the shit out of a people, then demand silence from them about it. Because the effects are only limited to the generations (a lot of them) who suffered from it directly, and history happens in a vacuum.

>> No.4577012

>>4577008
The people who caused the suffering are also dead.

>> No.4577011

>>4577008
God, I hate myself.
Sorry for being an arrogant cunt.

>> No.4577015

>>4577012
And so we can't talk about them.

>> No.4577026

>>4577015
No but attributing those acts to the white race as though guilt is a burden to be carried by everyone bearing the same skin tone is silly. Crimes are committed at an individual level.

>> No.4577029

>>4577026
Aside from "those acts" lots of white people are racist. Yes, even today.

>> No.4577033

Let these animals revel in their ignorance. Who cares?

>> No.4577038

>>4577033
>Who cares?
I need an attitude like this.

>> No.4577040

>>4577033
Many of us care. Do you not care of cares of others?

>> No.4577041

>>4577029
Which isn't slavery.

>> No.4577044

>>4577026
The legacy of those acts is perpetuated by many white people, including yourself for demanding silence about them.

>> No.4577045

>>4577041
Black people are still slaves. They have traded their physical manacles for metaphorical ones, but our society still enslaves them.

>> No.4577050

>>4577045
Calling somebody a nigger on the internet isn't slavery.

>> No.4577053
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4577053

>>4576982
>thinking that institutionalized discriminatory practices have no cultural effects past the point of their dissolution
>thinking that discriminatory practices have to be institutionalized for them to have cultural effects

juneteenth happened 150 years ago. jim crow america existed 50 years ago. last racially motivated hate crime against a black american probably happened a few hours ago.

you think AAVE exists because black americans just biologically speak different from white americans? it branches off because of segregation. if not because lives in a segregated society, then because who raised her did; if not because who raised her did, then because who raised /that/ person did.

she literally speaks the effects of american slavery, yet you want to say she shouldn't be allowed to speak about it?

>> No.4577062

>>4577053
Can I say that her execution of her literal effects of slavery was at least poorly done?

>> No.4577067

>>4577053
Most interracial crime is black on white.

>> No.4577073

>>4576894
>there are people that use "ze" unironically
>there are people that say cis
>there are people that think that being different equates to being righteous
>there are people that think that they have value when they contribute nothing to the world.
>there are people on /b/
>there are people the read Tao Lin unironically
>there are people that call people screaming tumblr content in a coffee shop art
>there are people that wear fedoras
>there are people that never green-text

>> No.4577080
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4577080

>>4577073
>tumblr content in a coffee shop

That actually sums it up pretty nicely.

>> No.4577081

>>4577045
+1

>> No.4577085
File: 242 KB, 500x256, welp.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4577085

>>4576894
>black people
>writing poetry about anything except race
>not even once

>> No.4577089
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4577089

>>4577067
>what is the difference between a hate crime and interracial crime
disadvantaged people are more likely than their counterparts to commit crime. advantaged people are a more obvious criminal target than disadvantaged people. what a surprise.
>>4577062
you could, but that's not an eloquent way to say anything.

>> No.4577091

>>4577089
>you could, but that's not an eloquent way to say anything.
Maybe my point was to not be eloquent.

>> No.4577092
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4577092

>>4577073
>posting on /lit/ unironically

>> No.4577093

>>4577080
thank you.

>> No.4577099

>>4577080
Tumblr: Coming LIVE to a Coffee Shop Near You!

Look for Tumblr: The Musical next year!

>> No.4577105

>>4577089
Even at the same income bracket blacks commit more crime. Population wise in the united states there are more poor whites than blacks. I'm not saying that blacks are the bad guys. There is probably a perfectly good explanation for this crime but trying to paint a picture where blacks are still being oppressed like slaves and white people are the bad guys is just wrong and accomplishes nothing but further weakening race relations.

>> No.4577104
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4577104

>>4577073
>there are people who care what innocuous noises people make
>there are people that think antonyms shouldn't exist
>there are people who think that art is a definable concept

everything else you said i fully support

>>4577091
maybe you're right.

>> No.4577116

>>4577053
>last racially motivated hate crime against a black american probably happened a few hours ago.
Probably a black -> white racial crime and not the other way around.

I know it happens the other way around, but a LOT of the time it's blacks racially attacking whites. And the best part of that is that it can't be considered a hate crime unless it's white on black

How about that "knock out game" that was going around on the upper east coast? You know, the game where *only* black people were attacking *only* white people with one punch trying ot knock them out. The game that killed a few people because the fell unconscious straight into a wall or curb.

The game that was never once called "abuse" or "attack" or "crime", let alone "hate crime" just because it was blacks attacking whites

Sure, there are a few old farts left who still remember when blacks segregated and hated on, and fuck those assholes; they are about to die anyway. But I think the VAST MAJORITY, YES THAT"S SOMETHING I TRULY BELIEVE of racism is black people who need to feel special and it just happens to be incredibly easy for them to do so

"I've already had 3 life crises, the latter of which had the depth and profundity of a man thrice my age"
How do you say this in black, because that's what a lot of the "muh racism" people are trying to say

>> No.4577126

White men
>formerly physically and legally dominant over subject groups
>now technically not, but still free agents who feel like "default humans" and "blank slates" from birth, free to choose their own destiny
>lackadaisically pick any artform or medium or subject or idea and talk about anything they want, explore it in any way they want
>zero crisis of self-definition or agency, actual humans, the Same

Women
>formerly physically and legally repressed
>now technically free and equal, in those two respects
>so hyperconscious of their past repression that all they can do is squawk about feminism for 200 years
>female achievements since "liberation" are incredibly minor compared to men, who patronize their inferiority complex without understanding it
>completely incapable of forging their own identity, constantly self-Othering by identifying with ~!I'M A WOMAN HEAR ME ROAR!~ facticity
>any art they create has to be about limp-wristed feminist activist horseshit because there are so many influences telling them from birth that they'll be a heroic rebel and champion of the downtrodden if they just babble about rape culture nonsense
>leads to self-entitlement and babby complex, perpetually unhappy and perpetually crying for more patronising treatment without knowing that won't fix it

Blacks
>formerly physically and legally repressed
>now technically free and equal, in those two respects
>so hyperconscious of their past repression that all they can do is squawk about racism for 200 years
>most black "achievements" exist inside a prison of self-Othering and self-stereotyping that serves as entertainment for whites who get a captive Other to jeer at
>getting worse every generation, perpetuating a destructive culture that glorifies idiocy, barbarism, and fatalism
>growing majority of them are fucked from birth and basically doomed to poverty and crime
>the few that do escape and get an education mostly end up babbling limp-wristedly about racism but with better diction

>> No.4577130

>>4577116
Well said.

I don't believe that the reason blacks are committing these crimes are because of some genetic inferiority or something. Like I said there is probably a perfectly rational explanation for it. I just think that painting one tribe OF INDIVIDUALS as the good guys and one as the bad simply based on skin tone is juvenile.

>> No.4577134

>>4577105
>trying to paint a picture where blacks are still being oppressed like slaves and white people are the bad guys is just wrong and accomplishes nothing but further weakening race relations.
It mostly feels that way because of race baiting. I imagine most black people don't think to themselves every day "fucking white people fucked our entire black society." Though the thought might occur to them. And they wouldn't necessarily be wrong to think it either.

Are blacks also to blame for their predicament? Sure, to some extent. But they've only recently begun to have a say in it, so it's hard to put so much blame on them.

>> No.4577138

>>4577126
I should mention that not all women and blacks are these feminist >muh white cis male oppression tumblr idiots.

Many of them, I should say most are probably just normal people like you who don't feel the need to blurt out their delusions in some hipster coffee shop.

>> No.4577143
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4577143

>>4577105
>social advantage doesn't exist
>familial advantage doesn't exist
>geographic advantage doesn't exist
>educational advantage doesn't exist
>fiscal advantage is all that exists
>black people are inherently bad come on guys i'm not racist
the 'perfectly good explanation' is either biological, which is kooky, or societal, which is the point i'm making.

black people don't have to be oppressed 'like slaves' in 2k14 for the chattel slavery of black americans to be a relevant element of the evolution of black americans' status.

as for whether work like the OP hurts or harms race relations, that's up in the air and neither of us know or have the capacity to know. as for whether or not it accomplishes something, well it accomplished something for /me/, so you can't quite make that statement.

>>4577116
most racially-motivated american hate crimes are committed against black americans. statistically. that invalidates about all of your post, so there's a good start. as for the rest

—the 'knock out game' never happened, it was pretty much news of one incident that the media got a stiffy for. do some research.

>there are a few old farts left who still remember when blacks segregated and hated on, and fuck those assholes
—pic related, he'd have been about 70 right now.

>how do you say this in black
—probably in a way that's a lot less pretentious, lmao

>> No.4577154

>>4577143
The way the stats are gathered is really bad, and not anything resembling an objective measurement of 'hate'.

>> No.4577157

>>4577143
>most racially-motivated american hate crimes are committed against black americans. statistically. that invalidates about all of your post, so there's a good start. as for the rest
Related: There is far more black on white crime than there is white on black, based on percentage. So if a black person is committing a crime, they are more likely to do it against a white person than a white person would be to do it against a black person.

>> No.4577165

>>4576894

I've only read 3 of those novels and hated them and nothing in that image seems appealing, except maybe Lolita. Is it absolutely necessary to read all of those?

>> No.4577166
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4577166

>>4577154
>statistics are less reliable than my fragmented anecdotal evidence and dependence upon sensationalist american media

>>4577157
>>4577089

>> No.4577169

Thesauruses aren't even expensive you dumb bitch.

>> No.4577172
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4577172

>>4577165
read them all except for maybe Siddhartha and Lord of the Flies. they're more highschoolassignedreadingcore than litcore but they're all solid works that can give you better insight into related pieces as you start reading more eclectic works.

i've read them all, which three didn't you like?

>> No.4577173

>>4577165
It's just for people who aren't well read and would like a place to start. Not a set of requirements to post on /lit/.

>> No.4577176

>>4577165
pleb

>> No.4577178

>>4577166
Because saying that the reason blacks don't have jobs is because of slavery is purely based in statistics.

>> No.4577180

>>4577166
The groups that collect that data are self selected. The FBI doesn't even give a shit what data they get. They only collect it because congress told them to. No oversight or rigour.

>> No.4577183

>>4577143
>—the 'knock out game' never happened, it was pretty much news of one incident that the media got a stiffy for. do some research.
The holocaust never happened, it was pretty much news of one incident that the media fot a stiffy for. do some research

Knock out game happened several times and killed about 3 people. It was indeed a thing, and did spread for a little bit. You do the research

>> No.4577186
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4577186

>>4577178
nature vs. nurture. no middle ground. take your pick. personally, until i see scientific evidence for the former, i'll believe the latter.
>>4577180
i'm not defending the statistics, i'm just saying that even shitty statistics are better than some dude licking cheetos dust off his fingers so he can type without dirtying the keyboard.

>> No.4577189

>>4577183
I don't know why you're arguing with this white guilt filled tripcunt who won't settle for any other conclusion than white people are the devil. You aren't going to get anywhere. Though I suppose pointless arguments with no resolution are what /lit/ is all about.

>> No.4577193

>>4577186
I never said that the reason why blacks commit more crime is because it's their nature. In fact I've stated the opposite. Just stating that slavery is the reason for it is quite the bold leap and is quite an assumption to make. The truth is we don't know what causes it and your assumption is just that, an assumption, therefore worthless. And you very clearly stated that it is an assumption here.

>> No.4577197

>>4577186
>some dude licking cheetos dust off his fingers so he can type without dirtying the keyboard.

Oh you dun it now cunt.

>> No.4577203
File: 1.11 MB, 2089x3000, Frederick_Douglass_portrait.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4577203

>1845
>escaped from slavery 7 years before writing his first book
>WHY CAN'T HE JUST GET OVER IT I MEAN GOD DAMN

>> No.4577205

1. Keats
2. Blake
3. Coleridge
4. Shelley
5. Byron
6. Wordsworth

In exactly that order

>tfw there will never be a period of poetry as awesome as British Romanticism

>> No.4577209

>>4577186
Black on white crime is higher than we'd find if targets were chosen randomly. This is despite the fact that white on black crime is as you say it, more sensationalized and therefore more dangerous.

Black on white crime tends to be assumed to be motivated for non racial reasons because blacks are seen as essentially criminal by either race, culture or circumstance, and not subject to things like racist attitudes. This bias leads to a bias where people are looking for white on black crime because its seen as abnormal, and therefore must be hateful, where the assumption is reversed for black on white crime.

>> No.4577207

>>4577203
>actually a slave
>some tumblrbot in a coffee shop 150 years after the event

Do you not see the difference here?

>> No.4577226

>>4577209
Also, I'm sorry for the terrible way that post is written. My keyboard is covered in copious amounts of cheetos dust.

>> No.4577227
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4577227

>>4577183
>holocaust denialism is the same thing as pointing out obvious media sensationalization
the 'knockout game' as in the epidemic of blind hate crime that news stations made it out to be never happened. it's a shitty thing that people have been doing for a long time that has no superficial racial component.

>>4577189
i'm sorry that i'm inconveniencing you by thinking out my opinions to a point where they will not be shaken by a completely unenlightening /lit/ thread. kill whitey.

>>4577193
chattel slavery did not cause racism, it was justified by racism. chattel slavery quite literally separated black americans from white americans and this literal physical separation existed (white fountain/colored fountain) and exists ('the projects') after slavery.

racism exists because xenophobia exists. racial segregation exists because racism exists. that's physical, fiscal, societal, what-the-fuck-have-you segregation.

>>4577209
>>4577089

you losers need to learn to read threads before you make statements that have already been responded to.

i'm out, you guys have failed to challenge my point of view but have succeeded in validating my assessments. thanks for the confidence boost.

>> No.4577231

>>4577205
>Coleridge

But he plagiarized far too much and barely finished anything.

>> No.4577232
File: 1.85 MB, 310x207, download.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4577232

Yeah, don't care what all the bleeding-hearts on /lit/ think, this isn't art.

It's complaining. And at its core is a misunderstanding of academia, human interaction, and there's a pervasive sense of entitlement all throughout.

>> No.4577234

>>4577205
Proper order:
Keats>>>>>>>>everything else is immaterial

>> No.4577239

>>4576894
is that picture serious? those are the most generic books ever how about the educated imagination or king lear

>> No.4577240

>>4577227
Oh no, I've failed.

>> No.4577243

>>4577227
You're still making an assumption that a 150 year old chain of cause and effect is the cause of the projects existing. You even stated it was an assumption that you took because you didn't like the alternative. As though biological reasons are the only alternative. The truth is we don't know. Maybe somebody does but you and I certainly don't.

>> No.4577246

>>4577232
It's art. It's just really bad art.

>> No.4577248

>>4577231

>he plagiarized far too much

How so? Do you mean from Wordsworth? Wordsworth stole shit from his sister all the time but nobody really seems to care about that.

>barely finished anything

Dude wrote a shitton of Biographia Literaria. He had a considerable output, though his poetry is scant by comparison. But that's part of what makes him so interesting for me. He has these brilliant flashes of inspiration that never ended up being completed (Kubla Khan, Christabel), and it leaves me wondering what else would have been there had he actually finished it. Also, Rime of the Ancient Mariner is boss

>> No.4577252

>>4577234

I don't know about that. Blake had a fascinating body of work, too. I think that Keats blows everyone out of the water in terms of tone and style (I don't think there has ever been a poet capable of matching Keats in this regard), but that doesn't necessarily render the others immaterial

>> No.4577254

>>4577232
It's just her using race as justification for sounding uneducated. Because whitey took her thesaurus. She's free to speak how she wishes. Others are free to judge her speech.

>> No.4577255

>>4577227
I win by default.

>> No.4577256

>>4577053
She should speak her mind, I just think that there are more beautiful ways to do it.

>> No.4577259
File: 143 KB, 840x568, r333179_1505824.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4577259

>>4577255
Hooray for anon!

>> No.4577262

>>4577256
Me farting a poem in Morse code would be more beautiful.

>> No.4577266

>>4577262

Please tell me someone has done this. That sounds marvelous

>> No.4577273

>>4577232

>this isn't art.

Then you would consider it inferior art. Maybe just plain old bad art. But it is still art.

Stop misappropriating words, kid.

>> No.4577379

So nasty that it's probably somewhat of a travesty having me
Then he told the people
You can call me Your Majesty
Keep your battery charged
You know it won't stick, yo
And it's not his fault you kick slow

>> No.4577383

is there any "slam poetry" that isn't just social justice warriors yelling cathartic verse to a chorus of claps and cheers and whoops and backslaps?

would be genuinely interested to hear it

>> No.4577395
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4577395

>>4577383

>is there any "slam poetry" that isn't just social justice warriors yelling cathartic verse to a chorus of claps and cheers and whoops and backslaps?

I think you know the answer to that, anon

>> No.4577406

>>4576949

>subjectivity

yeah thats why art students are mostly lazy faggots, because of the likes of you

and no its not completely up to the reader. some things are good. whether people like this or not is up to them, but denying the work put into to it and the prowess is foolish and desperate.