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/lit/ - Literature

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4572882 No.4572882[DELETED]  [Reply] [Original]

Anyone else feel like Nietzsches work affected him on a personal level ?

Not to be too edgy or something, but now I actually do know the mechanism (Ressentiment) behind peoples reactions to my male friend (who is pretty fucking alpha, I'm his nerdy plebian commoner colleague) takes off his shirt in public and proceeds to make out with his 9/10.

They are jealous of his displays of power and spout some dumb "catholic" social values that what he is doing is indecent, while in reality every male feels the biologic want to be in his position.

>> No.4572899

I think Nietzche's philosophy and outlook on life significantly contributed to his mental breakdown. He either stumbled onto truth so searing it fried his sanity, or he just was so wrong he broke his brain.

>> No.4572922

>>4572882

ONE DOES NOT NEED TO READ FRIEDRICH NIETZSCHE'S "WORKS"; ONE DOES NOT NEED PHILOSOPHY TO REALIZE, OR DEDUCE THAT.

>> No.4572926

>>4572899
Actually, Nietzsche commonly visited prostitutes and likely contracted syphilis. His intense migraines and gastric pain point to this. Eventually it got bad enough to fry his brain. The idea that he went insane because he was _that_ brilliant is silly.

>> No.4572928

>>4572899
He was never wrong. Blasphemy.

>> No.4572932

There's nothing wrong with being edgy. Embrace it.

>> No.4572934

Are there any Philosopher besides Nietzsche and Heidegger that use the "etymological" method to find "truth" or "philosophize" with ?

Like take one word, trace it back to it's roots, it's original meaning, and what that has to say about something on their ideas.

>> No.4572945

>>4572926
>Actually, Nietzsche commonly visited prostitutes and likely contracted syphilis. His intense migraines and gastric pain point to this. Eventually it got bad enough to fry his brain. The idea that he went insane because he was _that_ brilliant is silly.

My god, when will this misconception end? If you actually look into, most agree that it wasn't syphilis that did him in the end. It was likely some genetic brain disorder.

From his wiki:

> The diagnosis of syphilis has since been challenged... Leonard Sax suggested the slow growth of a right-sided retro-orbital meningioma as an explanation of Nietzsche's dementia;[96] Orth and Trimble postulated frontotemporal dementia[97] while other researchers have proposed a hereditary stroke disorder called CADASIL.[98][99]

>> No.4572947

The Antichrist is the most fucking edgy book one can read. Like holy shit, it's PURE FUCKING FEDORA EDGE.

Do universities really require people to read that ?

>> No.4572968

>>4572947

Nietzsche was an intelligent person who had a lot to say but yeah, The Antichrist is like the original shitpost in a /lit/ bible thread. But I guess the fact he was the first to do it counts for something.

>> No.4572978

it's certainly a display of (something)

>> No.4572984

>>4572968
True, someone had to done the fedora before others did.

>> No.4572989
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4572989

From Russell's History of Western Philosophy:

"Two applications of his ethic deserve notice: first, his contempt for women; second his bitter critique of Christianity... [quoting Nietzsche] 'Woman has so much cause for shame; in woman there is so much pedantry, superficiality, schoolmasterliness, petty presumption, unbridledness, and indiscretion concealed... which has really been best restrained and dominated hitherto by the fear of man.' ... The whole of his abuse of women is offered as self-evident truth; it is not backed up by evidence from history or from his own experience, which, so far as women were concerned, was almost confined to his sister."

>> No.4573000

>>4572989
"One must be
firmly set with oneself, one must stand bravely upon one’s own two
feet, otherwise one cannot love at all. In the end the little women know
that all too well: They don’t give a hoot in hell about selfless, merely
objective men..."

Women don't like good guys - Nietzsche

>> No.4573003

"I did that" says my memory. "I could not have done that," says my pride, and remains inexorable. Eventually -- the memory yields.

>> No.4573004

>>4572989
Typical Bertrand Butthurt who couldn't even been bothered to get into biographical inquiry. If it weren't for his role in Wittgenstein's glory Berty would have been among the most deserving of repetitive prenatal knitting needle probes. His "history of philosophy" consists mostly of shittalking what he can't understand.

>> No.4573010

>>4573004
>His "history of philosophy" consists mostly of shittalking what he can't understand.

Welcome to Analytic Philosophy.

>> No.4573011

>>4573004

History of Western Philosophy is not a value-less piece of literature so much as an embodiment of an analytical take on History of Western Philosophy, which makes it doubly useful if you sympathize with the analytic outlook.

And I think that Russell's output was more serious and interesting than Wittgenstein. Wittgenstein is a focal point of intense curiosity and study from philosophers and meta-mathemeticians, but his subject matter is one of the most abstract and remote from the sphere of day to day human life. Furthermore, Russell has had a lasting impact on both mathematics and computer science, while Wittgenstein has had no impact whatsoever on mathematics.

>> No.4573012

>>4572989
Nietzsche status:
#REKT

>> No.4573018

>>4573004

And let me just say while I'm at it that Nietzche's entire philosophical output is garbage.

And no, I'm not throwing the continental tradition into the bin with him.

>> No.4573017

>>4573011
>History of Western Philosophy is not a value-less piece of literature so much as an embodiment of an analytical take on History of Western Philosophy, which makes it doubly useful if you sympathize with the analytic outlook.
I appreciate that, but the horror is that people new to philosophy are tricked into reading this work as if it were genuinely an appropriate introduction, which might stunt them for life.

>> No.4573022

>>4573017

If they don't pick up on what's going on in History of Western Philosophy, then they will never pick up on what's going on in Western Philosophy.

I just wish we had a similar text by a continental philosopher, written in English.

>> No.4573020

>>4572989
"This was said for Germans: for everywhere else I have readers —
none other than choice intelligences, tried and tested in high positions
and duties; I even have actual geniuses among my readers. In Vienna,
in St. Petersburg, in Stockholm, in Copenhagen, in Paris and New
York — everywhere I have been discovered: not in Europe’s flatland
Germany. And to confess it, I rejoice even more over my non-readers,
those who have heard neither my name nor a word of my philosophy;
but wherever I go, here in Turin for instance, every face becomes
bright and right at the sight of me. What has flattered me most thus
far is that old market-women cannot rest easy until they have picked
out the sweetest of their grapes for me. To this extent one must be a
philosopher...The Poles are not called the French among the Slavs for
nothing. A charming Russian lady would not mistake for a moment
where I belong. I cannot be solemn, the best I can do is appear
embarrassed. To think German, to feel German — I can do anything,
but that is beyond my powers..."

>> No.4573024

>>4573018
Why are you attempting to continue my post while you did not write it?

>> No.4573027

>>4572945
This. And Nietzsche was sickly before he even began working on his philosophy. If anything, his method of wandering and hiking while working and thinking, chasing milder climates in the winter to keep up his health postponed whatever unique condition he had. The fact his vegetable like state lasted 11 years until he died doesn't correspond with syphilis in any case.

>> No.4573028

>>4573024

You misunderstand.

This is me >>4573022 continuing my post here >>4573011 by posting >>4573018

>> No.4573032

It is terrible to die of thirst at sea. Is it necessary that you should so salt your truth that it will no longer -- quench thirst?

>> No.4573033

Nietzsche never left his local area, right?

Often I think, why did he have so many philosophies about the world and how it worked, when he quiet frankly never saw half of it and its wonders.

>> No.4573035

>>4573033
Pretty sure he went from Prussia to Switzerland and northern Italy.

>> No.4573034

>>4573028
I'm going to guess that you have not even made a thorough attempt at grasping Nietzsche then. Even his greatest critics wouldn't dismiss him as garbage. Which works by him have you read?

>> No.4573037

>>4573033
Nietzsche travelled more than most people in his day, focussing mostly on the Swiss Alps in the summer and the Italian Riviera in winter.

>> No.4573043

>>4573035
>>4573037

My mistake then, I've been misinformed. Anyhow, point still stands for a lot of great philosophers.

I think, to get as close to the real truth you have to see everything from many perspectives not just your own. See how cultures differentiate values, life and people etc.

Maybe I'm just being pretentious.

>> No.4573045

>>4573035
All the way down to Sicily in fact and considering Northern Africa, but his health was always a limiting factor.

>> No.4573047

>>4573022
>I just wish we had a similar text by a continental philosopher, written in English.

Durant's (of 'The story of civilisation fame) Story of Philosophy makes for a good introduction to western philosophy I think.

>> No.4573050
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4573050

>>4573018

>Nietzche's entire philosophical output is garbage

>> No.4573051
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4573051

>>4573043
At the time it may have been more of an eye opener than now, but I'd rather say travel is severely overrated to the point that people actually feel smugly superior for having sat through a round trip to India instead of actually educating themselves. Tourism is not a guaranteed perspective enhancer. Many a book will enrich you more than live tweeting your way through customs with a spot of diarrhea coming on.

>> No.4573052

>>4573034

Guilty as charged. I have no interest in studying him in detail given how things look from a mile high perspective. I may get around to it someday.

So let me redact my "And let me just say while I'm at it that Nietzche's entire philosophical output is garbage. " with "Nothing I've heard about Nietzsche, and nothing I've read by him indicates to me that he is worth my time, and furthermore that he deliberately obfuscates his point from his readers and this is annoying."

>>4573033

It was Kant that never left Konigsberg, as the story goes.

>> No.4573058

>>4573052

C'mon dude... seriously. You can't just not read people and then call their entire philosophical output garbage. No one in this thread's taking you seriously anymore. You need to reconsider how you think about certain things... 'cause it's embarrassing.

>> No.4573059

>>4573051
I was not thinking of tourism, more about studying cultural differences, religion etc.

I can see what you mean with the "superiority" coming into play.

>> No.4573066

>>4572945
How exactly is it a "misconception" if neither theories have much evidence?

>> No.4573067

>>4573058

This is an anonymous forum on 4chan dude, I'm not worried about my rep lel.

>> No.4573071

existence preceeds essence. his work is the outlet for his tortured life not the other way around

>> No.4573072

It's just an ancient hipster, and hipsters today still rejoice over his works.

>> No.4573073

Nietzsche was a fucking idiot who couldn't come to terms with the fact that the Catholics became the new apex predators when they made all your "alpha" apes into their slaves. Did he really get so butthurt at the idea of some fat 60 year old commanding legions of those so called apex predators into their deaths because he fucking convinced them that he would forgive their sins if they did it that Nietzche had to moan about it his entire life? Jesus Christ how can you be so fedora. If you were fucking retarded enough to get rused that hard you had no right to be the alpha.

>> No.4573074

>>4573052
Nietzsche isn't the type of thinker that is easily judged by second hand accounts though and is one of the most severely misrepresented philosophers around. Perhaps the most misrepresented. Accusations of obfuscation, in this context, are merely an analytic frustration at poetic language. There's nothing inherently obscurantist about Nietzsche's work unless you adhere to the idea that a certain way of putting things could be reduced to another way of putting things without changing the message itself. Nietzsche subscribed to the idea that style is content. His phrasing is essential to his ideas.

I sincerely doubt that Nietzsche isn't worth your time. I've never heard of a person who gave him a thorough read who didn't come out profoundly changed in one way or the other. I've heard of people thrown into despair and others, interestingly enough, strengthened in their fate, but never of someone who came out lukewarm and unchanged.

>> No.4573077

>>4572947
Do you really think universities are teaching Nietzsche as a requirement? Excerpts of his popular stuff, maybe. Any more as a "requirement"? No.

Also, "Like holy shit, it's PURE FUCKING FEDORA EDGE" is an incredibly annoying way of expressing your opinions.

>> No.4573083

>>4573067
It still hurts your feelings a little bit when we call you a stupid faggot, though.

>> No.4573095

>>4573073
He actually did come to terms with this, welcomed it and valued it. Celebrated it even, in a way:

>it is only fair to add that it was on the soil of this essentially dangerous form of human existence, the priestly form, that man first became an interesting animal, that only here did the human soul in a higher sense acquire depth and become evil — and these are the two basic respects in which man has hitherto been superior to other beasts!
-Nietzsche, Genealogy of Morals

Read a book, friend.

>> No.4573110

>>4573095
>one excerpt versus a life time of tears

and if you read that carefully, he's STILL moaning about it by implying it's intrinsically "evil"

>> No.4573114

>>4573073
>Nietzsche was a fucking idiot and I haven't got a fucking clue what I'm talking about...

>>4573095
#REKT

>> No.4573116

>>4573074

I bought an anthology of his works a few years ago. It's all Kaufmann translations with his commentary and notes. I read some of his aphorisms, some amount of Genealogy of Morals and the Wagner essay. I was still in high school, so I didn't know a lot about anything. I was frustrated by his cryptic writing (which Kaufmann acknowledged) and references to Greek philosophy and German literature which I didn't know anything about, so I put it away.

In the meanwhile I've become interested in two kinds of philosophy:
1. logic and 2. political philosophy

My political orientations are very Leftist (whatever that means) and my interest gives me something of that analytic skepticism we all know and love when it comes to philosophy.

These two factors, combined with a recent interest in Christian ethics as laid out in the Sermon on the Mount, and as practiced by exg Dorothy Day and MLK, make Nietzsche's corpus basically a total antithesis to what I presently think.

I would say it's worth it for me to investigate based on the principle of an open mind, but one must be selective about one's reading, and I'm presently up to my neck in books for school and books I've picked out on politics and what not.

So no, I will not be revisiting Nietzsche any time soon.

>> No.4573117

>>4573110
>not knowing the context of the quote

Confirmed for ignorant, read some of his books, friend.

>> No.4573118

>>4573110
you should take his advice and read a book you just make yourself look more silly...

>> No.4573129
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4573129

I don't fucking get his point, he whines and cries that the beautiful, adventurous, promiscuous, athletic warrior prince Noble got dethroned from the good status yet at the same time claims that Science, Philosophy (the Noble had wit but not wit in such depths) are there because the common rabble inversed their Will to Power towards mastery of the material/mental because they were too weak to master other man.

Pic is "MUH MASTER MORALITY" that the fuck jacked off to.
How is this a bad fucking thing ?!

>> No.4573138

>>4573117
I did, and just like everyone who doesn't tip their fedoras, got profoundly sick of his plethora of whining. Don't get fucking testy cause you refuse to realize how retarded you are for worshiping an idiot who, if he was still alive, would be a fat redditor constantly posting about his euphoria.

>> No.4573144

>>4573116
>make Nietzsche's corpus basically a total antithesis to what I presently think.
All the more reason to read him. A fitting quote:

>The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently.
- Nietzsche, The Dawn

Even if you completely disagree with him on everything, he is one of the most eloquent and persuasive critics in history. If anything, he'll be a proper test of the strength and foundations of your convictions. But you seem more inclined to dismiss any sense of doubt, seeing as you already condemned him as garbage before even reading him. People do this a lot with Nietzsche, which in a way testifies of his potential. People are afraid of him before even familiarising themselves with his work.

>> No.4573149

>>4573138
If you actually read some Nietzsche you would realise he embraces those events wholly. Which is not to say they are not to polemicised against, of course. But Nietzsche always respected, if not revered, his opponents. There is nothing whiny about this. Something which you would know if you bothered to read him instead of spouting your little memes.

>> No.4573152

I think my favorite part of Nietzsche is his conception of popular morality as a form of expediency to form a society. It gives emotivists and other non-cognitivists a good explanation as to why people think the way they do.

>> No.4573161

>>4573129
If you don't realise that Nietzsche's Genealogy isn't a simplistic argument in favour of master morality over slave morality but a work that uses this dichotomy to explore human history concluding with the suggestion that both are inseparably entwined and to be transcended altogether, you should probably read a book.

>> No.4573163

>>4573116
You do realize that virtually all modern leftist, feminist, post-structuralist, post-modernist marxist ENS professors and whatnot stand on the shoulders of Nietzsche ?

>> No.4573166

>>4573161
He is way WAAAY fucking harder on slave morality and seems to give master morality a fucking pass.

I know that "the overman" eventually overcomes this duality and creates his own moral values but shit.

>> No.4573172

>>4573163

I don't think that's correct, at all.

>>4573144

Still not interested.

>> No.4573179

>>4573163
Now that they're more concerned with defending their position than arguing it, they can go about creating myths. It's only rational to do so in their position. And Nietzsche will change hands.

>> No.4573178

>>4573166
I remember reading or hearing somewhere that he was planing on making his critique on master morality just before his dementia kicked in, anyone more knowledgeable that can clarify? In any case, it wasn't as black and white as Master > Slave to him.

>> No.4573177

>>4573172
>I don't think that's correct, at all.
But it is, all egalitarians such as Jaspers, Derrida, Adorno and his Frankfurt School goonies stand on the shoulders of Nietzsche.

His reading is not edgy (well maybe with the exception of the Antichrist) and is enlightening as fuck as long as you don't forget to read the Greeks an lots of Bible/Theology.

>> No.4573176

>>4573166
The reason for that is that slave morality was (and is) the prevalent system of his time and environment. Of course he would focus on it. Especially since he saw it as a source of nihilism and anti-life thinking.

>> No.4573181

>>4572928
>blasphemy
>while praising Nietzsche

Oh. The irony.

>> No.4573186

>>4573179
They still have to argue it, Europe is in a deep neoliberal shitheap.

>> No.4573187 [DELETED] 

>>4573177

Actually, I've made a point of it to read Nietzsche in the future.

I've got him scheduled for some time after I've read Tolstoy's writings on the Gospels, completed an in depth study of the New Testament (which of course will have to wait until I finish studying the Tanakh), read Evans' 3 volume history of the Nazis and two books by Hannah Arendt on totalitarianism.

If all goes well (and it never does) this will be in three years.

>> No.4573194

>>4573166
He painted a picture of noble, splendid beasts with healthy instincts who were basically naive fools susceptible to intellectual trickery and the slave side of the story as that which made men interesting, gave him his depth, propelled him forward beyond the beasts, essentially made man man and will make him what he will be beyond that. If you know Nietzsche, his arrows pointed at the latter are more of a deeming worthy than dismissive.

>>4573172
>Still not interested.
Very well, but next time, please be so kind as to not pretend to know what you're talking about when blatantly dismissing a thinker you're not familiar with beyond a vague sense of animosity based on hearsay.

>> No.4573207

>>4572932
>Using "wrong" in an argument that rejects wrong/good dichotomy
Average Nietzsche reader

>> No.4573226
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4573226

>>4573207
>wrong/good dichotomy

>> No.4573238

To get Nietzsche, all you have to do is think about what he's saying.

>> No.4573242

>>4573226
He's got a point there, man.