/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.4522622]

ITT: us writer-bros discuss our strengths and flaws as wannabe writers and offer help and advice to others.

I'll start off. I feel that I'm generally "good" enough at writing, but there's no real aspect of it that I shine in. my prose is readable, but nothing special. My plotting is okay. My ideas are unique and intuitive, and I can bring them out through writing. I can convey ideas through story, and make the reader kinda feel something. But you could say my "skill points" are equally distributed, and I'm just generally competent, bordering good, and that's the end of it.

My flaw is my characters. Not so much THE characters themselves, but rather bringing them out and making them shine through the writing. I suck mangy, rotten dick at it :(

>tfw

[Anonymous No.4522639]

The key to good writing is reading a lot. /thread

[Anonymous No.4522643]

>>4522639
And writing a lot. /thread

[Anonymous No.4522652]

>>4522639
The key to good writing is actually fucking writing.

I'm good with image and character-via-action. I can usually handle dialogue and pace. I can write first-person capably enough, though my diction is occasionally too cute and manufactured for my liking. My big problem is a tendency to fall in love with purple prose and big ideas when they might not necessarily work. I also can't sustain a novel-- my stories usually don't merit the length, and when I go long I end up spending too much time waxing lyric philosophical in description and the story will come to a stop. I prefer play/screenwriting, but funnily it ends up taking me longer to get the story to work in that format.

[Anonymous No.4522664]

>>4522639
>>4522643
>implying discussion with others isn't helpful as well

>>4522652
I used to have the same purple prose problem too. Looking back at my older stuff, it was fucking horribly lurid and irrelevant. I honestly spent a page describing exactly how the desert looked and then another half a page about how he walked down the basin. I let go though.

I guess with that philosophical problem, if you're trying to get a point across, drop bits and pieces of it like bread crumbs around the novel through whatever techniques so that the reader can piece it all together at the end.

[Anonymous No.4522895]

[Anonymous No.4522920]

>>4522652
>>4522664
>purple prose
Yeah, no, sorry to disappoint you, but your prose is probably far from "purple".

[Anonymous No.4522949]

>>4522920
There are entire swaths of italicized unpunctuated internal monologue in the last novel I wrote. Trust me. The fucking thing's purple.

Then again, the intent with that piece of shit was to write a pulp fiction novel in the style of Bill Faulkner. It's been five years or so; I've been working towards developing a more curt diction since.

[Anonymous No.4522954]

I made a thread about this the other week....

[Anonymous No.4522974]

>>4522920
>I don't know what purple prose is.

You're implying that it's hard to use bigger words in a clumsy manner that reads like shit when it's not.

[Anonymous No.4524712]

>>4522920
sorry, but tell me exactly how THE fuck would you even know?

[Anonymous No.4525022]

My strengths are believable dialog, decent pacing and humorous bits.

My weaknesses include my total lack of dedication to everything (I'll never finish anything). And my biggest problem is that I'm very repetitive. I find one idea that works and (totally unintentionally) end up repeating it, just slightly differently, over and over again. All my stories end up turning into bad sitcoms.

[Anonymous No.4525053]

Strengths: Emotion, dialogue, and conflict between characters or inside themselves. I feel pretty decent most of the time at writing fully developed characters, sometimes good.

Weaknesses: I suck with locations and scenery. Although, I think this has more to do with my attitude towards. I mean, a door is a freaking door, I feel I shouldn't have go into detail over it unless if there's a reason to (symbolism, importance to plot, etc.). I feel my descriptions of locations are very bland, and very generic.

Also, I've noticed when there's sadness, depression, or pain involved in the story, I come very close to crossing over into narm-level writing or immature angst. The descriptions of scenery I kinda let slide, but this weakness I've been actively trying to fix.

[Anonymous No.4525062]

My strengths are my very compelling narrative voice, my incredible creativity, and my ability to craft a sturdy narrative.

My weaknesses, supposedly, are dialogue and characterization, though I wonder if this isn't just my one friend being anal.

Also, I can't write a fucking query letter to save my life. For some reason I'm utterly incapable of it. I've pretty much decided to stop trying, and just start writing to literary agents with "I cant write query letters, so this is all you get. The first three chapters are below."

[Anonymous No.4525067]

Talking about the basest points (plot, character, narrative tricks, formation) usually leads to superficial dialectic on the medium. What really drives the writer is a discussion of aesthetics and ideology; the stuff that gives power to the various literary movements is a cohesive literary framework. (Unless you're one of those 'write purely for fun and self' guys e.g. Cat 1 of Orwell's reasons why people write). The writing of any era or country is tied to its philosophy and outlook.

[Anonymous No.4525068]

>>4522954
fuck da mods

[Anonymous No.4525072]

I basically have problems with dedication, I get swamped by doubts of it even being a meanignful story or even profitable, so I just fall back and let it slip.

[Anonymous No.4525078]

>>4522954
#outlels4lyfe
#shotsfired

[Anonymous No.4525099]

You need to see the poetic connections in things. You don't have to be a thorough descriptor like the Romanticists or the Gothic writers but you have to channel momentum and strength in as little words as possible.

In the past this used to be the norm

>There was no light of any kind emanating from lamp or candle within the suite of chambers. But in the corridors that followed the suite, there stood, opposite to each window, a heavy tripod, bearing a brazier of fire that protected its rays through the tinted glass and so glaringly illumined the room. And thus were produced a multitude of gaudy and fantastic appearances. But in the western or black chamber the effect of the fire-light that streamed upon the dark hangings through the blood-tinted panes, was ghastly in the extreme, and produced so wild a look upon the countenances of those who entered, that there were few of the company bold enough to set foot within its precincts at all. (Poe's Masque of Red Death)

But now its more

>. And past all this, reddened by a round slow September sun, are mountains, jagged, their tops’ sharp angles darkening into definition against a deep red tired light. Against the red their sharp connected tops form a spiked line, an EKG of the dying day.
>old dandelions’ downy heads exploding and snowing up in a rising wind (Both from DFW's Forever Overhead)

>

In Schrunz, on Christmas day, the snow was so bright it hurt your eyes when you looked out from the Weinstube and saw every one coming home from church. That was where they walked up the sleigh-smoothed urine-yellowed road along the river with the steep pine hills, skis heavy on the shoulder, and where they ran down the glacier above the Madlenerhaus, the snow as smooth to see as cake frosting and as light as powder and he remembered the noiseless rush the speed made as you dropped down like a bird. (Hemmingway's Snows of Kilimanjaro)

The difference is that the first is a more of pure description while the other two aim to capture less of the image and more of sensation through combinations of rhetorical tricks and strange powerful metaphors.

[Anonymous No.4525100]

>>4525099
This was for

>>4525053

[Anonymous No.4525421]

>>4525068

[Anonymous No.4525425]

>>4525053
>2014
>when writers and critics are drooling over that horrid, bland style of writing that they call 'brevity'
>you're worrying about using words to describe scenery

[Anonymous No.4525428]

>>4525067
what are you talking about?

not trying to be snarky, i'm jsut honestly confused whether you're responding to someone, or talking about something else entirely

[Anonymous No.4525431]

I think I write well enough, despite mostly avoiding fancy words, similes, and metaphors. My biggest problem is probably that I am still too wordy, even with somewhat minimalist prose [I generally write a shit load of stuff in brackets, like this. I'm not even trying to ripoff DFW's footnotes and shit, I just like doing this].

[Anonymous No.4525432]

>>4525431
just be careful not to be pretentious with it all

[Anonymous No.4525441]

>>4525432
>writing
>not pretentious

[Anonymous No.4525448]

>>4525441
>point

[Anonymous No.4525465]

>>4522622
>>4522622
I find it surprising theirs so many un-motivated plebs on /lit/

All some of you talk about is feels when you can't get up to write a few words
If you find that hard then I don't think you should be a writer

[Anonymous No.4525466]

Does anyone here actually do any research? Are all your stories sci fi fantasy crap.

[Anonymous No.4525467]

>>4525466

[Anonymous No.4525468]

>Strengths: Good prose and description, good dialog and characters, my only problem is plot. My plots are usually absurdly simplistic and jarringly brief.

Sorry if my vanity is shining a little here, I'm high.

[Anonymous No.4525471]

>>4525466
>implying good sci-fi fantasy isnt well researched

[Anonymous No.4525495]

Strengths: Story structure, character, natural sounding dialogue.

Weaknesses: I seem to have a hard time writing conflicts wherein one character clearly victimises another. Dialogue generally comes fairly easy to me if it's general banter or a power struggle, but when the characters are on clearly separate power levels, it's hard to get them bounce off each other enough to get any real momentum going and I just want to skip to the aftermath. The victim just zips up and soon attacker has nothing to respond to. (Plus, I'll admit, I'm a little soft and don't like seeing people upset).
I don't presume there's really a trick to it though, it's probably just something I need to work through in a series of obligatorily terrible dialogue drafts that exist only as stepping stones to getting the exchange where it needs to go. Maybe I should try giving the victim equal power to start with just to get the ball rolling for the attacker. So much easier to write someone being stomped over when they're being a little asshole about it. Then I can retool their reactions from their actual position.
Man, I've been struggling with this in my head for days. Having to articulate it might have just given me something to work with. Thanks, thread.

[Anonymous No.4525507]

I'm good at turning on my computer, going onto wordprocesser, typing two paragraphs, realize my prose and lexicon suck major donkey dick. After this epiphany I stand up from my chair that smells like ass, look out the window at all the squirrels outside living happily chasing nuts, wish I could be a squirrel, I'm to big to be a squirrel, go back to my monitor, pick it up, throw it out the window, squirrels run, look at my keyboard and wonder why the fuck I just threw my monitor, I'm a broke unemployed negro who can't afford to purchase another one.

Fast forward to night; empty suburban dead end street. I'm dressed in all black, with a backpack its contents will help me acquire a new monitor and maybe some weed money. Since I know you're wonder what is in the bag it contains the following: one empty revolver, two waka flocka mix tapes on an iPod touch first generation with a cracked screen, a box of condoms, and a kfc bucket. Hear jolly European family watching their nightly dose of shitty reality television, peek through the window and their dog sees me... He begins barking hysterically, I run back home, whip out the waka flocka mix tapes and look at the squirrels outside my window looking for nuts. Damn it you squierls I wanna find nuts with you, but i'm too fat. Realize life sucks, open window and jump head first... WAKA FLOCKA BOW BOW BOW BOW BOW BOW

[Anonymous No.4525516]

>>4525507
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPzdN-tH9Jk

[Anonymous No.4525565]

>>4525468
wish I could be right now

try letting the character's ambitions and goals conflict in such a away that the plot gets shaken up until it's got enough content that it's not jarringly brief

>>4525495
that's exactly why I made this thread, glad it helped

>>4525507
bro, when that impossibility of life seems like an sheer, unbreakable wall, stop smashing your head against it - find another way around. or even, turn around and go in the other direction. wish I could help man, but i can't ;_;
>tfw

[Anonymous No.4525588]

>>4525432
Well I have aimed for pretentiousness sometimes, in parody of DFW or Tao Lin

[Anonymous No.4525591]

>>4525428
I'm saying that most of the things discussed about writing here are about character, plot, how to write descriptions etc... and discussing these types of things are irrelevant to the formation of a writer unless he has grasped an aesthetic code.

The power of writing is derived from a writer's unique worldview, based around his aesthetic code. The Symbolists and their opacity. The Beats and their semi-mystical automatic streams. The Greeks and their idolatry giving power to their tragedies. My belief is that when you have your own worldview, aesthetics and purpose down then the rest will come. The problem of that lack of dedication will go away since once your aesthetic code is crafted you writing becomes less of a hobby and more of an impulse.

>>4522639 is correct. But you don't just read alot to expand your technical and verbal capability, you read to see through the eyes of another and grasp his axioms and drives which in turn reinforces your own artistic soul.

But of course there are people who can do it for the fun of it, nothing wrong with that. Fun and aesthetics aren't mutually exclusive.

If you want to get aid on stuff like character and plot just go
http://www.writingexcuses.com/
or read Stephen King's book.

[Anonymous No.4525594]

I'm nearing 24 and I have yet to finish a story of more than 10 pages in length. Shall I ever make it?

[Anonymous No.4525609]

>>4525594
I don't think Borges did either and yet he's pretty all right.

[Anonymous No.4525612]

>>4525594
when was the first time you actually tried to finish something?

[Anonymous No.4525620]

>>4525612
A couple months ago. I've been writing poetry for a couple years and I've just recently tried to write stories, which I can never seem to keep going beyond a few pages.

[Anonymous No.4525652]

>>4525620
so you've been trying to finish a piece of literature for about a month? took me a good five years to do that. i'm finally writing something that i'm certain I'll actually finish. give it time, anon, and soon you'll find the determination to finish something you started

[Anonymous No.4525655]

>>4525652
plus, those little few-page things you're doing are just practice.

once you've had enough practice, you'll finally be able to take it beyond those few pages and into infinity

[Anonymous No.4525791]

>>4525620

Do they end in under 10 pages (ie, they're short stories), or do you just stop writing them?
If the latter, just do a little planning beforehand for something longer, if you want to.

[Anonymous No.4525828]

>>4522622
Strengths: Structure, cogency, and believable dialogue.
Weaknesses: I always seem to end up writing something teenage girls would read, some John Green style fluff. I really need to get out of the hole of starting off strong and then petering into some lyrical romantic spiel about clouds or something.

[Anonymous No.4525840]

>>4525828
is that necessarily a bad thing? evidently that's a part of you, otherwise you wouldn't write it. why is writing YA-ish stuff so maligned?

[Anonymous No.4525841]

>>4522639

I write, but I almost never read books. This isn't going to end well, is it?

[Anonymous No.4525852]

Weaknesses: Everything.
Strengths: None.

[Anonymous No.4525854]

>>4525840
You're right, and in that sense, writing YA fiction is a strength for me, but I frequently find people critiquing me for sticking to the specific genre and pigeon-holing me as a "one trick pony"

[Anonymous No.4525867]

Strengths: I'm an idea generator, I get more potentially great ideas than I'll ever be able to keep up with to the point of unintentionally attracting potential work.

Weaknesses: I'm a master procrastinator that almost never meet my deadlines. I also suffer from low self esteem issues and being a slow typer.

[Anonymous No.4527158]

>>4525867
I know that feel.
>tfw 100 page Word document filled with ideas but 90% of it never gets used / it's all for different ideas and never fits together

[Anonymous No.4527173]

None of you have any strengths as writers or else you wouldn't need the support of a internet book club.

[Anonymous No.4527194]

I'm best at creating characters and showcasing their personalities with conflict, eliminating plot holes, and maintaining a balance between gritty/edgy and shiny/idealized.
I'm worst at pacing, describing actions, and paring down sensory filigree.

[Anonymous No.4527208]

>>4525867
You have ideas? Wow, no one else has those.
Also do you honestly expect anyone to care that you have low self esteem if you're always missing deadlines?
No, that's called being a totally unreliable jerk without any sense of responsibility.

>>4525828
Yes because 'teenage girls' is such a tiny avenue for profit in the writing world, and John Green isn't rolling in cash, you stupid fuck.

>>4525594
No, you don't have the self-discipline.

>>4525495
>Strengths: Every difficult to master skill which makes a story good
>Weaknesses: One really particular thing
Fucking hunk of dirt

>>4525468
>I'm perfect in every way except the most integral part to story writing
So actually you're a fucking hunk of dirt

>>4525431
So your prose isn't minimalist, you fucking faggot, and you don't even use the word surplus to include anything interesting or even basic literary techniques.

>>4525072
So you're not a writer.

>>4525062
Nah man you're great, absolutely perfect, it's just that one anal friend of yours holding you back he doesn't get you man.
Also, referring to TVtropes should be a real indication that you're not nearly as good as you think you are.

>>4525022
Why do all you hunks-a-dirt say "believable dialogue" is your strong point? Believable dialogue reads like shit because most dialogue is shit. That's not a strength, that's being able to write the way you talk and the way you talk blows.
Also if you never finish anything you'll never be a writer so it doesn't matter how believable your dialogue is anyway, fag.

>>4522622
So actually you're not "good" you're just passable and that's not enough. Also you're probably too old and fixed into certain patterns to get good at this stage, so honestly just leave it to those who have a genuine talent.

[Anonymous No.4527231]

dialog cause I'm a shut in NEET who can't hold a two minute conversation about anything.

[Anonymous No.4527255]

>I'm smiling because whenever we touch on the subject of this book which he is going to write some day things assume an incongruous aspect. He has only to say "my book" and immediately the world shrinks to the private dimensions of Van Norden and Co. The book must be absolutely original, absolutely perfect. That is why, among other things, it is impossible for him to get started on it. As soon as he gets an idea he begins to question it. He remembers that Dostoevski used it, or Hamsun, or somebody else. "I'm not saying that I want to be better than them, but I want to be different," he explains. And so, instead of tackling his book, he reads one author after another in order to make absolutely certain that he is not going to tread on their private property. And the more he reads the more disdainful he becomes. None of them are satisfying; none of them arrive at that degree of perfection which he as imposed on himself. And forgetting completely that he has not written as much as a chapter he talks about them condescendingly, quite as though there existed a shelf of books bearing his name, books which everyone is familiar with and the titles of which it is therefore superfluous to mention.

[Anonymous No.4527356]

>>4527208
Look at the /lit/ tough guy over here.
Judging us while he's probably just as pathetic as most of us, hell, probably more so.
>inb4he tells us he's a published author
Big whoop, join the club.

[Anonymous No.4527376]

>>4527356
No, I'm not published and I'm shit at writing just like you the difference is I don't have a little wee-wank over it. Fuck off you fuckin hunk of dirt.

[Anonymous No.4527388]

>>4527376
>No, I'm not published
Then you have no appeal to authority. Fuck off.

[Anonymous No.4527485]

>>4527388
dude he's clearly trolling everyone in this thread... and, welp, he's won. good job reacting to him

[Anonymous No.4527496]

>>4527255
What's this from?

[Anonymous No.4527506]

>>4527485
Nah, he was just being a jackass. And nobody "won".

[Anonymous No.4527524]

>>4527496
Tropic of Cancer

[Anonymous No.4527536]

>>4527524
Thanks.

[Anonymous No.4527591]

>>4527173
>people making threads now need to add the words "subjectively" and "relatively" to every single line otherwise people like you will reply

[Anonymous No.4528459]

>>4527208
>>Strengths: Every difficult to master skill which makes a story good

>story structure
>difficult

Pick 5 examples of soulless hollywood dreck and I guarantee you they all have perfectly fine structure.
Actually turning structure and ideas into a finished story with believable, appropriate atmosphere and intensity from word to word is the hard part. That's the shit readers actually notice, that's all that's going to keep them reading, and that's all that will get you to a finished product.

I know you're trolling, but I actually think it's an important point to make in general, because people get lazy on structure all the time, and there's just no need for it. If you're bad at it, do your homework and get better. It's easy as piss to learn and will thoroughly enhance every other skill you both have and don't have.
It's like learning how to stop before learning how to sprint; it's simple as hell but it'll save you a world of hurt. Just don't mistake it's usefulness for difficulty.

[Anonymous No.4528470]

>>4527231

So don't hold conversations. Just eavesdrop.
Seriously. Get on a bus, have a writing tool (laptop, notebook, portable word processor, whatever), and just write whatever people are saying.
Infer their relationships, power positions, motives. Get a feel for their rhythm, dialects, note their accents, possible in-jokes.

Even if you were a brilliant conversationalist, a conversation held by you and a conversation held by two people who aren't you, is going to sound completely different. Everyone should take note of how others around them speak, to each other as much as themselves. Your own way of speaking is a minuscule aspect of writing dialogue. It's all about listening.

[Anonymous No.4528492]

I have a lot of characters with their own stories that overlap with others. I feel like I have to write all of them individually, or I'll wind up with a giant clusterfuck.
I also have a hard time with dialogue.

[Anonymous No.4528504]

>>4522622
>strengths:
—sensory description, especially scent
—creation of realistic characters
—wordplay
—using accurate phrasing
>weaknesses:
—realistic dialogue
—tandem timelines
—translating external events into internal events (so...character development, really)
—sticking to the story arc

i have been writing poetry for years and years, only recently started focusing seriously on prose. everything i write ends up just being an over-detailed "in she sucks one breath, out she rattles it" mess. things happen, but they either happen in people's heads or on people's shoulders. and i really, really suck at dialogue. i do a lot of videography on the side and most of my films have little to no dialogue, too.

i mostly only write vignettes, and they're fun and interesting, but the fear that i have no real talent keeps nipping at my heels.

http://people.virginia.edu/~sfr/enam358/wrightrev.html

i write similarly to zora, save the masterful representation of dialect. i feel like i have nothing to offer other than, as wright puts it, "facile sensuality."

[Anonymous No.4528606]

>>4522622
I'm terrible at writing characters and dialogue, but I'm absolutely fantastic at world-building. I write with a friend, he does characters and dialogue and I do setting and plot. It works quite nicely.

[Anonymous No.4528747]

>>4528504
how did you get those long dashes?

[Anonymous No.4528765]

My grammar is shit.

[Anonymous No.4528779]

I'm struggling with a desire to communicate something a little bit outside the text

that is, I want to write fiction but I'm struggling with putting meaning into my stories

[Anonymous No.4528782]

>>4522639
>>4522652
Reading is what gives you the tools, writing is how you learn to use them.

[Anonymous No.4528780]

Weakness: Whenever I try to write I feel insecure, unimportant and ashamed. Why sohuld I even try to write, there are more than enough books...

And solutions?

[Anonymous No.4528810]

hey, writers, i have a question for you

when you begin writing, do you have any particular message you're trying to communicate? do you structure your stories around that message?

do you just tell a story? i guess what i'm getting at is, for what reasons do you write specifically what you write

[Anonymous No.4528838]

>>4528810
Most of my writing begins with a singular concept, or a conflict/situtation that I feel I would enjoy writing about. Generally from there it evolves as I plan and structure from that point. In terms of a message it usually arises from the writing itself, that is to say that I wouldn't set out to make a statement as such, but rather to tell a story and any appropriate themes, I hope, would come naturally.

It's about creating a set of characters or a scene and allowing them to breathe life into the story. Personally I think that trying to work it the other way around - coming up with a message and trying to squeeze a story to fit into it - is likely to appear contrived and smack of being manufactured.

[Anonymous No.4528857]

>>4528838

appreciate the insight, friend

[Anonymous No.4528871]

I'm a pretty bad writer, and when I realized this, and reveled instead in making nerds on boards like this giggle, my skill in fartfictioning blossomed. I hope someday to be the Shakespeare of fart stories.

Strengths:

-Descriptions of eating the fat turds of anime girls or inhaling their greasy farts
-Showing characterization through waste consumption and the sharing thereof

Weaknesses:

-Plot
-Characters
-Prose
-Grammar
-Structure
-Research
-Relevancy
-Brevity
-Cogency

[Anonymous No.4528900]

A big flaw that I think I have:
I think I'm bad connecting scenes.
Let's say people are on a place A and going to place B and is somewhat important to describe what they are doing on their way, it seems like what I write is always shit. It always feels rushed (is like the scene in A is good and then quality drops out greatly when they're "walking").
Does anyone have the same problem? Any tips?

[Anonymous No.4528901]

>>4528900

Try to imagine the scene as naturally and "organically" as possible; then describe it.

Read it after. Have other people read it. If what you have written does not have some sort of chronological, causal nexus, you have failed.

[Anonymous No.4528935]

>>4528900

If all you're doing is getting them from one location to another, why not skip it? If something important is occurring along the way, why is it harder than any other legitimate scene?

[Anonymous No.4529733]

>>4528747
they're called em dashes
if you're on OSX, 'option+shift+-' does the job

[Anonymous No.4530552]

>>4528780
Write anyway, out of spite

[Anonymous No.4530588]

>>4530552
This so hard.

Write to entertain yourself not other people. Eventually you may become skilled and experienced enough that someday other people might want to read what you write.