/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.4492960]

I just read a book called "Dune" where the kid is born with magic powers and moves to the desert then takes over the whole planet.

it was pretty bad ass, I was told to read "crime and punishment" next

is that good too?

the only other 2 books ive read are the outsiders and the catcher in the rye

they were OK

20yo sophomore here; going to take literature next semester

[Anonymous No.4492992]

also i want one of the knives they used, maybe ill make one

[Anonymous No.4493002]

/lit/ - my blog

[Anonymous No.4493024]

>>4493002

well is crime and punishment as good as Dune?

[Anonymous No.4493052]

>>4493024
I am not saying you deserve to die, just that the world would be a better place if you did.

[Anonymous No.4493059]

>>4493052

wtf bro this is not /b/

just asking for /lit/ advice

[Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ No.4493062]

>>4493024
It is. It's also very different since it was written a century before and by a Russian, but you should enjoy.

[Anonymous No.4493068]

>>4492960
Why don't you read Dune Messiah?

[Anonymous No.4493078]

>>4492960
>20 years old
>only read 3 books ever
Is this a real thing? Does this happen? Like, not to be condescending or anything, and you seem like you have good taste for someone just getting into reading. I'm just kind of surprised.
Anyway, Crime and Punishment is a great book, definitely better than Dune (not to say Dune's bad, it just doesn't compare), but I don't know if it'll get your attention right away you're used to faster-paced stuff. It's a lot older, so it might seem unfamiliar at first. Just keep those in mind and give it a shot, see how you like it... you'll definitely be able to enjoy it if you give it a chance.

[Anonymous No.4493094]

You should read Dune again in 2-5 years. Would attain a better understanding of it, and then be ready for its sequels.
Just remember, stick to Frank Herbert and ignore the works of his son, Brian Herbert.

For now, consider the works of Philip K. Dick (I'd recommend starting with his short stories, pic related). Crime and Punishment should come later.

[Anonymous No.4493224]

>>4492960


You do know that none of Pauls abilities are magic, right?

[Anonymous No.4494099]

>>4493224

how are they not magic

[Anonymous No.4494116]

>>4493078
Def a real thing. OP should not read Crime and Punishment if this is true, its like jumping on a dirt bike a day after you learned to ride the bike.

[Anonymous No.4494122]

>>4493094

It was a pretty serious eye-opener/mindblower the first time I read it, and the effect seemed to be exponential the further I got into the series. Unfortunately I'm missing Heretics of Dune, so I haven't finished it.

The Brian/Kevin J. Anderson stuff (i.e. the prequels) are alright; they're much more science fiction novels than the literature that is Frank's work.

[Anonymous No.4494126]

>>4494099
His mother and his father's aides basically spent his first 12 years polishing his abilities to a finely honed edge physically and mentally. He is a male who has received the bene gesserit training (mental control and hypnosis), and is a trained and natural mentat (think Rainman with charisma). His prophetic abilities I guess could be considered "magic", but there are plenty of examples of Prophecy in the world, and when you have an army of fanatics that beat the shit out of anyone they come across, your prophecy tends to come true.

[Anonymous No.4494131]

>>4492960
OP I would try to read some lower tier classics first, like Call of the Wild & White Fang, Captain Blood, maybe Moby Dick (without reading into the allegory) if you are feeling ambitious. Maybe also some true crime like Helter Skelter or something.

[Anonymous No.4494133]

>>4494126
well, he also drank the fremen brew that allowed him to see different time streams or whatever. I guess that's magic.

[Anonymous No.4494142]

>>4494133
He is taking drugs. He is a brilliant general.

Its like how oracles told Alexander he would conquer the world and he did so. I always read it like "Paul has prophecy under the effect of drugs of the Fremen Jihad, but does nothing to stop it, and in fact leads it" as "Huh, what a good idea, im going to lead a jihad"

[Anonymous No.4494174]

>>4494142

dude it's magic, he's been trained by witches

[Anonymous No.4494180]

>>4494142
This is exactly how I read into it.
Paul was bread and nurtured to exploit a primitive prophecy, a call to which he took too well.
On the whole, the book explores the nature of politics and organized religion and how they serve one another in an attempt to keep each other in place.

[Anonymous No.4494183]

>>4494174
Bene Gesserit are only called witches by the uninformed, all they do is mental gymnastics, spacial awareness as regards to their body in combat, and hypnosis. Prana-Bindu is basically high level yoga and pain control mixed with some eastern traditions of mind over body. they are also trained as human lie detectors based on understanding vocal tone and facial reactions.

>>4494180
This, he was trained from his birth to be warrior jesus, and then had the best military force in the universe placed in his hand.

[Anonymous No.4494187]

>>4494183

can he or can he not see through time and communicate telepathically with the bene gesserit

[Anonymous No.4494197]

>>4494180
>>4494183
>>4494142
>>4494126

Psionics. End of story.

[Anonymous No.4494199]

>>4494187
He cant, he was programmed to be the Kwisatz Haderach from birth by his mother who is deeply involved in Bene Gesserit mythology. His interplays with the Mother Superior of the bene gesserit result from the fact that they are both brought up in the same mythos. This sort of shit happens in churches all over america (miracles, miracle healings, exorcisms) and its just as "magic" as in dune. The fact is, Paul is a genius with Gandhi/Hitler level charisma, and dominates those who stand before him.

>>4494197
If this is legit it would ruin what >>4494180
said about "the nature of politics and organized religion", and just make it a boring fantasy book.

[Anonymous No.4494213]

>>4494199

how does his sister talk to him and tell him she killed their grandfather then

how does she implant herself in the memories of the Barron

How can Paul look through time and stare back at the witches from the place where they cannot go?

i think herbert tried to say later that it was a cautionary story about heros but there was a lot of magic in the books, his sister was born after Jessica underwent the spice agony while knocked up and they were worried she would become possessed by an ancestor

alia is like 4 years old and gets in the minds of people she's never met on other planets, that's magic

[Anonymous No.4494224]

This sounds like an interesting read, and I've heard good things about it even outside of /lit/, but...

Is the movie good? I think I'd like to watch that in order to get more of a feel for this, but if it sucks I'll just skip it and keep Dune on my "to read list"

[Anonymous No.4494232]

>>4494224
There are two movies. One is acceptable, one is terrible. Avoid both, read the book.

>>4494213
In the context of this book i read it all as mysticism in the classical sense, indeed the story seems to be narrated by the Emperors daughter. If you read roman histories you hear stories of portents, but they didnt really happen.

[Anonymous No.4494235]

>>4494224

the movie treatments vary a lot; the book Dune is one that after reading it you would think it would make a great movie, but all the action kind of turns it into an action movie, in the book there is a shitload of political and religious intrigue that must be glossed over to make a movie

the movies are good or at least OK but not for the same reason the book is great

Patrick Stewart and Sting are in the original one, which is pretty cool, steward looks almost the same in the 70s as he does in the 2000s

[Anonymous No.4494236]

>>4494232
IE every time the romans consult the Sibylline prophecies and low and behold they turn out to be exactly right.

[Anonymous No.4494238]

>>4494232

well then you are getting into "yes they do magical things in the book but those don't count"

Paul sees through time, you have to either say that the spice lets him do that in a natural organic way or it's magic or a bunch of the book didn't really happen and no "this is what really happened" explanation is given

[Anonymous No.4494239]

>>4494224
David Lynch's Dune is a very flawed movie.
Not only was it butchered in the editing room, he himself had a hard time balancing budget, his film making sensibilities and those that the book demanded. Overall, I recommend you watching it some day in one of its many editions, but even having seen it before reading the novel I recommend reading the novel first.

The tv miniseries is more coherent and faithful to the book (in some ways, not others), but on the whole it's a cheep attempt that lacks the charm and effort of Lynch's trainwreck.

[Anonymous No.4494244]

>>4494238
I say 100% that paul doesnt see through time, he creates his own destiny. I say Spice is a drug that gives an enormous amount of clarity (the space guild and mentats usage directly relate to that). And since paul has been programmed to be a genocidal conqueror, the spice shows him the path through his own mind.

As for Alia, I always thought she was a weird and unnecessary part of the book. I still dont believe she is actually doing magic, just taking advantage of the spice and existing religious structure. Back to the Roman history, im sure two headed cows were born, but i doubt they had any significance, just like how alia "gets inside peoples heads", but lets face it, shamans do that shit in the rainforest.

[Anonymous No.4494246]

>>4494244

Herbert provides the following definition in Terminology of the Imperium, the glossary of the 1965 novel Dune:

KWISATZ HADERACH: "Shortening of the Way." This is the label applied by the Bene Gesserit to the unknown for which they sought a genetic solution: a male Bene Gesserit whose organic mental powers would bridge space and time.

[Anonymous No.4494248]

>>4494246
Im not sure if you are agreeing or disagreeing with me. The mental powers he uses as a bene gesserit are organic, and also have been achieved by varied monastic groups over history.

[Anonymous No.4494249]

>>4494248

Herbert says paul can bridge space and time and in the book he does so and you are saying he does not

herbert is saying it's not magic (bc spice and genetics) but he does have these powers which others do not and which we would consider magic

[Anonymous No.4494252]

>>4494248
nm i read over the space and time part.

If herbert wants that, he can have it.

[Anonymous No.4494254]

>>4494252
It actually disappoints me a little

[Anonymous No.4494264]

>>4494252
Then again, it could be argued that those images were already planted in his mind, a placebo based on rational deductions and calculations with a high probably that they would work out for him when the time came.
Anyhow, it's not magic in the fantasy sense. What Herbert was describing were the Bene Gesserit attempts to mold Paul's brain into an organic computer, labeled as mystic magic due to the religious language attached to their profession.

[Anonymous No.4494268]

this guy got it right imo >>4494249

>>4494244
>I say Spice is a drug that gives an enormous amount of clarity (the space guild and mentats usage directly relate to that).
an enormous amount of clarity doesn't help foreseeing if a path in long distance space travel is safe or not
you NEED to be able to look in the future for that as far as the book explains it
the drug makes that possible, so it's not literally "magic" (you could say that in the book, this is possible due to the nature of space and time)

[Anonymous No.4494314]

>>4494249
>which we would consider magic
But that's wrong. Mystic language was attached in the book because authoritarian religio-political stagnation was heavily implied, but what Paul was turned into was essentially a biological computer, able to make precise calculations and predictions that would appear to a primitive society as "magic".
Just calling his "powers" magic and dismissing it that way is the same as calling all other future technology magic. The notion of interstellar spaceships becomes that of the dragons, robots become as valid as elves, etc.

[Anonymous No.4494328]

>>4494314

bro he could see through space and time and did

so did his sister and frank herbert specifically says he could; and in the book he did

a computer cannot see into the future

it's kind of like "dr who" he can travel though time but it's not magic because he has a TARDIS

however you could substitute ANGLE for TARDIS and nothing of substance would change...

"it's not magic because the spice gives Paul magic powers"

ok

[Anonymous No.4494337]

>>4494328
>ANGLE

ANGEL i mean

[Anonymous No.4494363]

>>4494328
it's not literally magic
it's just physically possible to see through space and time in the Dune universe and the spice allows you to do it

[Anonymous No.4494364]

>>4494328
It's a lot more complex than that in regards to the world established in the book.
You have to take into account the Butlerian Jihad:

>Jihad, Butlerian: (see also Great Revolt) — the crusade against computers, thinking machines, and conscious robots begun in 201 B.G. and concluded in 108 B.G. Its chief commandment remains in the O.C. Bible as "Thou shalt not make a machine in the likeness of a human mind."

Thus, the Bene Gesserit seek to mold minds into what thinking machines used to serve in order to meet their own ends. Organic brains capable of advanced calculations that "bridge space and time" for example. World building like that is a bit different from "Gandalf pooped magic light from staff".

[Anonymous No.4494372]

>>4494364

when "the chosen one" (who the "witches" think of killing as a kid) drinks a special drink and can then see through time I would say it's more like magic than not

[Anonymous No.4494387]

>>4494372
Now we're just going in circles. See:
>>4494126

[Anonymous No.4494424]

>>4494337
holy shit that's dark

[Anonymous No.4494807]

I can't believe so much people on /lit/ fall for glorious fattest trols of OP kind so easily.
btw, dune is a classic, crime and punishment is a classic and a must read.