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/lit/ - Literature

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4436283 No.4436283[DELETED]  [Reply] [Original]

So /lit/,

Did God experience character growth from the Old Testament to the New? From the "jealous God" of the Jews to the "all-loving, sacrificing" God of the Christians?

How do people even justify this? I was under the impression that God is supposed to be pure, eternal, and unchanging...

Anyways, just wanna know what you guys think

>> No.4436291

God is malevolent at best. If you don't worship him you will be cast into hell for all eternity. There's no change from old to new testament, other than Jesus being God as well and he was a little more compassionate, but still militant.

>> No.4436296

God realized if he does too little for humanity, people lose faith and chaos ensues, if he does too much, they become too dependent. and after walking around as one of us he discovered great empathy for our sufferings. God became wiser while we became less attached to him.

>> No.4436302

>>4436291
*takes off fedora and makes a trick before putting it back and tipping it*

>> No.4436317

>>4436296
But isn't God supposed to be omnipresent, omnipotent, omniscient, etc? Does he really make mistakes and learn?

Thats why I'm looking more into Gnosticism, with the Demiurge and the imperfect world, and Sophia existing along with the Creator God.

>> No.4436334

>>4436283
Jealous God wasn't the only trait. The same loving, sacrificing God is still present in the old and the same jealous source of good and evil is present within the New. Paul just spends more time on the loving aspect since he was trying to sell his new religion to Jews and gentiles.

>> No.4436341

>>4436291
>worship him you will be cast into hell for all eternity.

This is why Protestantism needs to die or be completely revised.

>> No.4436345

>>4436341

How does that differ from Catholicism?

>> No.4436349

>>4436345
Even the pope says atheists go to heaven.

>> No.4436352

>>4436349
No, not the way you think.

>> No.4436353

>>4436345
>>4436349
I was under the impression in Catholicism that 'virtuous pagans' go to Purgatory, and have another chance to accept Jesus, so technically they can go to heaven after.

>> No.4436355

>>4436349
Yes, but he's just a pope; it's not as if he actually knows.

>> No.4436358

>>4436349
Not what he said. Said that even Atheist have a shot at Heaven.

>>4436345
It doesn't. But Protestantism is the bigger supporter of literalism which is where the Dante's Inferno interpretation of Hell falls.

>> No.4436360

>>4436353

Dante used this device in his Purgatorio, but it certainly isn't canonical.

>> No.4436362

>>4436355

Pope is a representative of Christ, he better know.

>> No.4436363

>>4436358
> Said that even Atheist have a shot at Heaven.

Which means that if they're good people they'll go to heaven the same as any good Christian.

>>4436355
In Catholicism everything the pope says is meant to be taken as fact.

>> No.4436364

>>4436283
>Did God experience character growth from the Old Testament to the New? From the "jealous God" of the Jews to the "all-loving, sacrificing" God of the Christians?

This is really a trite interpretation. God manifests a lot in Genesis and Exodus in a narrative way, with a clear character (he's a bit of a fucking dick).

For the rest of the bible we're left with second hand descriptions.

Even Jesus is on about His Father quite a bit. The mecha transformation still doesn't give us much: it isn't characterised, he just dies and that's meant to be fantastic.

There's no consistent character between books.

>> No.4436367

It's not God that changes; it's the worldview of the people who are attempting to symbolize the idea of God through narrative.

>> No.4436373

>>4436291
Do you think child molesters should be given a pardon? Should corporations be allowed to pollute the planet as much as they want? Should murderers go free?

I don't understand why people find it so incredible that God punishes sin. Probably it arises from guilt, because they know in their hearts that they deserve that judgement.

>> No.4436376

Does "change" imply the existence of free-will and/or thought?

>> No.4436377

>>4436363
No it means that just because they are an Atheist they can still be forgiven by accepting Jesus sacrifice. Same way gays and anyone else can.

His point was that nothing you do will ever keep you away from God's love and Heaven if you are willing to follow him.

>> No.4436378

>>4436353
In order to be a virtuous pagan don't you have be ignorant of god?

Leads to that old joke about the Indian and the missionary. But Christians can't exactly not proselytize though. The only choice is to stop Christians from doing it, and erasing knowledge of Christianity. It would be hard to do with the internet now. The best solution is to go back in time and kill all early Christians. It would help future generations get into heaven, because they would have proof of God and the afterlife. No early buy-in needed.

>> No.4436379

>>4436363
>In Catholicism everything the pope says is meant to be taken as fact.
only when he says so
in fact, this has only been done two times, where the pope declares that he's impeccable

>> No.4436392

>>4436363
>Which means that if they're good people they'll go to heaven the same as any good Christian.

Yeah, there was a reddit post and news stories with badly worded titles a few weeks back I think. That's not what he meant dumbfuck.

>> No.4436399

>>4436392
>The Lord has redeemed all of us, all of us, with the Blood of Christ: all of us, not just Catholics. Everyone! ‘Father, the atheists?’ Even the atheists. Everyone! And this Blood makes us children of God of the first class! We are created children in the likeness of God and the Blood of Christ has redeemed us all! And we all have a duty to do good. And this commandment for everyone to do good, I think, is a beautiful path towards peace. If we, each doing our own part, do good to others, if we meet there, doing good, and we go slowly, gently, little by little, we will make that culture of encounter that so much. We must meet one another doing good. ‘But I don’t believe, Father, I am an atheist!’ But do good: we will meet one another there.

Actual quote from the pope, stop getting your information from Reddit

>> No.4436411

>>4436373
>Should corporations be allowed to pollute the planet as much as they want?

Well, as long as you keep buying their shit, they'll keep going. You're part of the problem, a sinner. I think deep down you know that you deserve that judgement.
Also
>Do you think child molesters should be given a pardon?
Do you even christianity? they are the main child molester protectors in the known universe, mate.

>> No.4436413

>>4436399
Cuppy-cake, he's talking about a path towards peace. Meeting each other there doesn't mean heaven, but that path. On earth and shit. You understand cinnamon-bun?

>> No.4436416

>>4436392
>>4436399
#
R
E
K
D

>> No.4436417

>>4436373
If those same sinners repent, they won't be punished as much as somebody who just chooses not to believe. You can be a genocidal madman, but if you make a confession and repent, you are absolved. How does that make you feel?

>> No.4436422
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4436422

>>4436413
>maybe if I call him enough funny names he'll overlook the fact that I was wrong

>> No.4436425

>>4436417
not that guy, but I agree wholeheartedly with this. They will only be absolved if they are truly sorry and if they truly repent (which means they won't do it again).

I think everyone deserves a second chance

>> No.4436431

>>4436416
Get you ass on down to /b/ with your shit posting and carrying on.

>> No.4436438

>>4436431
go back to reddit m80

>> No.4436440
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4436440

Old-testament "God" was Lucifer sent by the real god to impart law and fury upon the world and Jesus was a messenger from this same true god, preaching about morality. These things don't always align and morals are always superior to law which is why Jesus won.

>> No.4436448

>>4436373

Get your ass out of the stone age, caveman.

>> No.4436456

If you're all so scared of going to hell or not going to heaven, just do what (I think it was) Charles the Great did. Have yourself baptized on your deathbed. Voila, born again, no sins commited, clean as a judge.
Even though heaven sounds like absolute torment to me anyways. eternity is torment, and you'd be stuck there with loads of religious fags.
>inb4 islam is the true religion and you're all going to hell for believing the wrong thing anyways, or it's one of the other 100000000 religions/cults.

>> No.4436462

>>4436431
carrying on? that was my first post in the thread.

>> No.4436463

>>4436456
I think you meant

>inb4 hinduism/buddhism is the true religion and you're all going to be reincarnated for thousands of years until you finally reach nirvana

>> No.4436468

>>4436399

The Pope must be retarded. You don't have to do good, you have to repent and submit. You can torture, burn and kill as long as it's in good faith, but if you live your life literally for the good of other, you will burn eternally, unless you do so in the faith.

>> No.4436476

>>4436468
That's not what Catholics believe.

protestant scum pls go

>> No.4436471

>>4436456
Constantine did that too.

>> No.4436479

>>4436456
>heaven sounds like an absolute torment

Reminds me of the Twilight Zone episode where the guy is a thief who dies and gets everything he ever wanted and can't lose at anything and will never get caught doing anything and it drives him crazy and you find out at the end that he's in hell

>> No.4436536

>>4436373
but without God to judge, there is no sin.

>> No.4436548
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4436548

>>4436283
Getting this thread back on topic...

What you have to understand about the history of man's relationship with God is that God revealed himself little by little over the millennia. The Jews during the times of the Old Testament knew little about God, therefore they kind of portrayed him in the light they wanted him to be in: as a slaughterer of enemies a helpful force in battle. Keep in mind also that much if the Old Testament is written very poetically and metaphorically. A reader or believer today is not to believe that God actually, say, helped the Israelites slaughter their enemies only when Moses held his arms up and allowed the Israelites to be pushed back when Moses rested. The story is instead meant to suggest that God will only assist those who put in a little effort themselves, or something like that. It is not meant to portray the literal nature of God.

When Jesus came to reveal the nature of God in the fullest possible way, he revealed that God is not in fact unnecessarily violent and wrathful. God did not change here, people's understanding of him did.

>> No.4436549

>>4436476
That's not what Protestants believe, either.

>> No.4437132

>>4436411
>they are the main child molester protectors in the known universe, mate.
fedora intensifies

>> No.4437277

>>4436548
fuck all that perfectly sensible shit, religion is gay for faggots

>> No.4437305

>Old Testament
>Jews
nigga jesus christ, not this shit again
Judaism didn'y start until 100AD

>> No.4437483

>>4436283
Not in the conventional sense. God's character changed in that different groups took turns writing the Bible.

Each group had its own perspective colored by culture and historical circumstance. What you read in the Bible isn't God, but their perception of him.

And yeah, technically he should be unchanging. It's a paradox.

>> No.4437515
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4437515

>>4437305
>Judaism didn'y start until 100AD

>> No.4437648

>>4437515
>I'm unaware of the difference between rabbinical and temple judaism.

>> No.4437675

>>4437648
You're not impressing me.

>> No.4438448

>>4436283
>2014
>not realizing the Hebrew god is actually an evil god named yaldadoth and Jesus came to save everyone from his jealousy.