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4424389 No.4424389[DELETED]  [Reply] [Original]

mfw most so called atheists are actually pantheists

>> No.4424521

It gets pretty hilarious when they describe themselves as deists too.

>> No.4424577

>>4424521
expand, I have never seen that

>> No.4424634

Atheism and nihilism are spiritually the exact same thing.

If a person tells you an atheist and yet woships celebrities or money or Reason or intelligence or education or society or humanity - then he isn't an atheist, he's a pagan.

>> No.4424672

>>4424634
Define worship

>> No.4424688

>>4424672
>dictionaries

>> No.4424693

>>4424634
A theist is someone who believes in the existence of a god or gods, not someone who worships something.

>> No.4424718

>>4424693
Yeah, and the man I am talking about takes that thing as his "god".
Did you know that during the French Revolution they dressed a woman up as the "goddess of Reason" and "worshipped" her? Point is, even if they were "joking" it still in a sense reveals something about them. Yeah, a proclaimed atheist might not literally engage in worship or devotion to a deity, but he still has in his lives ideals/idols that he more or less allows to dominate his way of thinking. They are just bad pagans. Pagans that don't show up for the ceremonies. Lazy pagans.
That's the thing about "Atheism", it dodges the question. The question isn't so much, "does God exist?", it's, "what is Godly?", "what is the good, the beautiful, the true?", "what should we worship?". See, modern atheists who worship no deity just end up worshipping celebrities and actors and athletes and politicians, and the rest are nihilists who "don't have any meaning in life".

>> No.4424736

>>4424718

wordplay =/= argument

>> No.4427191

>The chief objection I have to pantheism is that it says nothing. To call the world God is not to explain it; it is only to enrich our language with a superfluous synonym for the word "world".
--Arthur Schopenhauer

If pantheism posits nothing other than the synonymy of "God" and "Nature", then it is mere semantics. Either explain why you think "God" and "Nature" ought to be synonymous, or else explain what you mean by "pantheism" and why you consider them to be pantheists.

>> No.4427817

>>4427191
pantheism:absolute=nature

>> No.4427833

>ITT: Lets argue pointless semantics all day

Whats the point of this? Atheism is defined as a lack of belief in gods/deities.

Play the word game all you want. That doesn't change the fact that I do not believe in any god you may believe in or those of other established religions.

Is this some attempt and "bringing down" or "Lowering" self proclaimed Atheists to your level? How does valuing science, intellect, or anything such ideas mean I'm worshiping them?

>> No.4427841

it's unlikely a christian will be persuaded to leave their faith unless their faith is already wavering

it's unlikely an atheist will believe in god unless they are already open to believing

it IS likely, however, that everyone involved will be insulted by both others and themselves in the process of trying to do what can't be done by anyone but the individual

>> No.4428165

>>4427191

Pantheism was a gentle was to turn theists into atheists, by having them go through the thought processes and reasoning, such that they could not go back to their old transcendental-theist way of thinking.

>> No.4428173

>>4424718
Oh God, you sound like one of those preachers that will expound emptily for hours on any subject off the top of their head.
It is a gift, I suppose, to be able to riff like that, but the logic and meaning is so... absent.

>> No.4428186

>>4428165
>implying that pantheism doesn't predate all of this bullshit

>> No.4428193

>>4424718
I love how the Frenchies did this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult_of_the_Supreme_Being

>> No.4428239

>>4424718
Your argument makes two erroneous assumptions. First, you assume there must be a god (what is Godly... should we worship). I shouldn't have to explain why this doesn't make sense.

Second, it misrepresents what a god is.
First, a god must be worshiped. (And then you have to define worshiped, which is semantic and subjective)
Second, a god must have some supernatural tone. You would be hard pressed, in fact, to find a god who was not supernatural. (Cults, for example, may have human leaders calling themselves deities, but in calling themselves deities they have defined themselves as supernatural)

Also, assume you were correct, then everyone would be pagan, because we all worship (or perhaps a better term is Love?) something, from art (literature, music, painting), to fame, to money, to family, to god.

>> No.4428263

I have to agree with Schoppy on this one.

We are asking whether the universe is sentient or not, but all that comes down to how we define sentience and intelligence. This debate is not a theological one, rather it's about arbitrary definitions in our language.

Also did Wittgy say anything about this? It sounds like his kind of thing.

>> No.4428266

>>4428263
> Schoppy
> Wittgy

Seriously? You're fucking tragic.

>> No.4428275

>>4428263
>Wittgy
>not 'Wiggy Stardust'

>> No.4428281

>>4428275
>not Uncle Ludwig

>> No.4428283

>>4428281
That's Beethoven.

>> No.4428382
File: 120 KB, 500x374, Martin-Heidegger.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4428382

> mfw Hegelians refuse to let Being speak through them

>> No.4428838

>>4424634
I'm an atheist and I'm fairly optimistic, bud.

>> No.4428854
File: 32 KB, 514x352, 1380444466246.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4428854

>mfw atheists believe there is any validity in ethics or idealism

>> No.4428872

>>4427833
>valuing science, intellect
*tips fedora*

>> No.4428892

>>4427833
It means you are cognizant enough to recognize the true sources of knowledge, so of course you're hated

>> No.4428916

>>4428838
you cant be an atheist and an optimist, not if you look at the big picture, thats why OP said that most atheists are pantheists, because when they talk about hope, they talk about scifi scenarios of the universe knowing itself, or transhumanist bullshit, transhumanism is a form of pantheism in which the ideal "humanity" becomes self-aware and reaches its full potential

a real atheist has no concept of divinity, not only in the Abrahamic sense of divinity but in every single sense

>> No.4428924

>>4428916
No, I don't go down that retarded line of thinking at all.

>> No.4428951

>>4428916
What if I just don't believe in anything and think people have already sunk too far to ever become something good, even though I can't think of a perfect situation in our past either.

What if, next to me being born and able to experience I do not see much reason in human existence? What does that make me?

>> No.4428954

>>4428838
Nihilism is not the same as pessimism. Optimism is not the same as being someone who is generally alright with things. And on top of it all, you're missing the anon's point.

Atheist is the one who doesn't believe in the existence of god or gods. But what does "god" mean? Every atheist will have a definition for it that suits them (just like all theists). When you pose that question, you are doing theology and thinking of it spiritually. If you take this question for granted ("just the man in the sky people say is there, the one I don't believe in"), you are not really thinking on what being an atheist really means. You're avoiding the question. If theism is criticized for how they handle the world in terms of a god, then the atheism that opposes it must counter that relationship. There are many pseudo-atheists who do not hold an opinion on what God means and so they have the same position in life that of a theist, but with things not called God.

>> No.4428976

>>4428951
a softcore 21st century first world nihilist

>> No.4428981

I can't believe in any God mainly because of the psychological argument.

There might be a God(s) containing an infinite range of attributes and modifications but I sure as hell wouldn't trust it. We can barely trust regular human neurologies with "normal" appetites. We can't even trust a small abberation of those neurologies in the form of intelligent sociopathic and psychopathic individuals. How the hell do we get off on assuming anything about something like "God"?

I think you're fucking retarded if you're a theist. It doesn't matter if some being exists, you're still fucking retarded and deserve any number of bad consequences of your belief.

>> No.4429013

>>4428954
>Nihilism is the philosophical doctrine suggesting the negation of one or more putatively meaningful aspects of life.

Right? Religion is not meaningful to me, to me it's deceptive and wrong. The rest of my life is filled with art, people, literature, happiness. So my life is not nihilistic.

>> No.4429018

>>4429013
Whatever. The point is optimism is not the contrary of nihilism.

>> No.4429033

>>4429018
Okay, that's a good point, thanks for bringing it up.

>> No.4429039

>>4428976
Cool, I finally belong. I'm going to have to read up on nihilism now to see if I actually agree with it.

Btw, you're saying seeing nothing good with the world and the only reason for its existence being me is softcore first world? the fuck are the hardcore third world philosophers writing!?

>> No.4429293

>>4428872

Can't wait for this meme to die. Really can't wait.

It's literally nothing more than a shitty way to ignore someone after you dragged yourself into a conversation with them.

>> No.4429328

>>4428954
Not that guy, but:
>You're avoiding the question.
Why's that a problem? You've decided you place importance on that question, because you believe. Does it upset you that people don't care about what being an atheist 'really means'? Do people who don't think about your other interests, or question why they don't, bother you?

>> No.4429387

>>4424389

Holy fucking shit. I considered myself an atheist as a teenager (who didn't, right?), and I only recently came to believe that the term "god" is really just a word people use to categorize all the extraordinary things of the world; that is, "god" is really just all existence.

I didn't know that had a name. Thanks!