What will come after post-modernism?

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Anonymous Sat Dec 28 08:55:20 2013 No.4413294 [DELETED]

What will come after post-modernism?

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 28 08:58:20 2013 No.4413298 New Sincerity, if you believe what you hear on /lit/.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 28 09:00:20 2013 No.4413299 >>4413294 [Spoiler] Something that isn't intellectually and philosophically infantile hopefully.[/spoiler]

Anonymous Sat Dec 28 09:02:14 2013 No.4413304

>>4413294
PROTIP: Post-modernism exists alongside modernism. It's a reaction and commentary to it, not the next stage in some chronological procession. Without modernism, post-modernism has nothing to talk about.

So, your entire reasoning is flawed and you ought to shut up.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 28 09:21:23 2013 No.4413329 proto-futurism

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 28 09:29:23 2013 No.4413343 >>4413294 Post-post-modernism

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 28 10:05:55 2013 No.4413411 >>4413299 >spoiler fuck off to your native board

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 28 10:10:55 2013 No.4413417 >>4413294 heavy post-metal

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 28 10:12:55 2013 No.4413420 >>4413294 Post-Niaiserie™

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 28 10:13:55 2013 No.4413421 simulacrum.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 28 10:42:55 2013 No.4413455 >>4413343 I actually think it will be this one. All books will begin to be about how retarded post-modernism was.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 28 10:47:55 2013 No.4413462 >>4413343 we will have so many 2deep deconstructions by that point, that we will start deconstructing deconstruction

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 28 10:48:55 2013 No.4413463 File: 510 KB, 853x479, New_Game_Grumps_Logo.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>4413298 what, like pic related?

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 28 10:49:30 2013 No.4413465 >>4413294 Total decadence.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 28 11:18:29 2013 No.4413515 the 1000 year reign of christ

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 28 11:21:29 2013 No.4413520 post-irony. subtle signs that you get the joke without making the joke the central aspect of the text

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 28 11:41:29 2013 No.4413547 >>4413520 what

Anonymous Sat Dec 28 11:51:32 2013 No.4413563

>>4413547
Irony is central to po-mo, and therefore there is nothing being said SINCERELY, without suspicions that a trap door is about to open or someone is going to start laughing.

In post-pomo lit there will be signs that you aren't a modernist (references to pomo lit, or characters trying to work out whether one another is joking or saying things ironically, or a character saying they wanted to say something sincere but they didn't want to sound as if it was from a movie)

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 28 11:51:32 2013 No.4413565 >>4413463 No, like this: http://www.maximumfun.org/blog/2006/02/manifesto-for-new-sincerity.html Personally, I find critiques of New Sincerity more enjoyable: http://plover.net/~bonds/newsincerity.html

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 28 11:52:32 2013 No.4413568 >>4413520 sounds good to me

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 28 11:54:32 2013 No.4413579 >>4413565 That manifesto is a piece of shit Read the Notes on Metamodernism essay instead

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 28 12:01:33 2013 No.4413594 >>4413579 It's what I was directed towards as being the first articulation of what "New Sincerity" was. Like I said, I find the critiques against it more interesting.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 28 12:03:32 2013 No.4413597 >>4413594 I wasn't attacking you, just stating my opinion I don't think anybody knows what new sincerity or metamoderism or post-postmodernism means yet

Anonymous Sat Dec 28 12:05:34 2013 No.4413602

Whatever it will be it's approach to art will be far more honest and respectful towards the art. If art is to become relevant again it's purpose and aim as well as its craft must become apparent at a first glance to anyone, not just some monetary elite.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 28 12:09:33 2013 No.4413611 >>4407198

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 28 12:16:33 2013 No.4413622 >>4413597 I sure as hell don't

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 28 12:35:34 2013 No.4413669 >>4413565 holy balls that's terrible. I rather watch GameGrumps

Anonymous Sat Dec 28 12:37:33 2013 No.4413672 [DELETED]

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>>4413304
Well yeah I get that, but our society is a joke. It is essentially a bunch of post modernism holding modernists in western countries in cages like zoo animals. I feel like an Native American in the nature preserve of BNW sometimes.

The world thinks us modernist savages, but they are the bystanders who allow the true savagery to continue. Post modernists are like an anti virus for corruption. Post modernism was employed to make the modern man complacent.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 28 12:43:32 2013 No.4413688 >>4413597 I don't even know what post-modernism is

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 28 12:44:32 2013 No.4413691 >>4413672 You're going to have to explain this in further detail to me. Post-modernism is generally the rejection of grand narratives. How does the complication and unsettling of things like History with a capital H "make the modern man complacent"?

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 28 12:44:32 2013 No.4413692 >>4413688 Feels, to many feels of obscurity.

Anonymous Sat Dec 28 12:47:33 2013 No.4413695 [DELETED]

>>4413691
It is the rejection of narrative of history. Does that not speak for itself? No one gives a fuck anymore in the west. Isn't it evident by the constitutions being passed around and lit on fire? alll anyone cares for in the west is equal rights meanwhile the rest of the world is butchering each other and becoming properly educated. The west is the laughing stock of the world.

We are the children who tried to grow up to fast. We are the teenager who fought and drank alot and then burnt out and died before it got old. The rest of the world is still working out their kinks and aging like wine.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 28 12:47:33 2013 No.4413696 >>4413520 what, like [s4s] or ylilauta?

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 28 12:47:33 2013 No.4413697 >What will come after post-modernism? more isms

Anonymous Sat Dec 28 12:54:32 2013 No.4413717

Okay guys, I have never taken any sort of art, art theory, or philosophy class. I would appreciate it if somebody could tell me to what degree my understanding of these movements is considered correct/incorrect:

Modernism is a conscious rejection of previously established trends and beliefs and an effort to create new modes of thought and action within the context of a modern industrialized world.

Postmodernism is an awareness of this rejection (conscious of the self-conscious) and reinterprets the new modes of thoughts and action found in modernism, often by questioning whether truth can be found both in itself and in modernism through the use of irony.

Post-postmodernism covers the various attempts to reconcile these two ideas: it is a desire for a modern truth (particularly an emotional truth) that postmodernism contests while also questioning key postmodern characteristics such as irony and self-awareness.

Anonymous Sat Dec 28 12:59:32 2013 No.4413729

>>4413717
The first two aren't wrong. And although I disagree with the last description, I don't think that means that you're necessarily wrong; I just disagree.

You could also say that modernism is about rejecting previously existing modes of and ideas about art in favor of a new, purer art which will be valid and true - it's attempting to create a new, valid grand narrative but it rejects more or less all existing ones - while postmodernism, for similar reasons, rejects all grand narratives, including the modernist grand narrative. In other words, there's a sense in which postmodernism involves a rejection of the modernist program.

Anonymous Sat Dec 28 13:04:32 2013 No.4413737

>>4413695
>It is the rejection of narrative of history. Does that not speak for itself?

No it doesn't. It rejects GRAND narratives, not all history itself.

You seem like the sort of person who believes in grand narratives. I'm going to have to not take you seriously if that is the case.

Anonymous Sat Dec 28 13:05:32 2013 No.4413741 [DELETED]

>>4413729
Not the guy you were talking to, but would you say that po mo is the result or at least held together by cult culture? When I say cult culture, I mean the many many specific followings and the new thrive of people in modern times to feel individual by fitting into different cultures Eg. Music, art, fashion, sports

Anonymous Sat Dec 28 13:08:33 2013 No.4413750 [DELETED]

>>4413737
How can you not believe in grand narrative? Do you not realize that prior to the 20th century communications and culture spread was very small. We live po mo life styles now, but hardly anyone did previously. The grand scheme was always modernist in the past.

Even if post modernism is good, it has boiled down to fucking child like arguments about trivial ideas and people puking on canvas and calling it art.

Anonymous Sat Dec 28 13:10:33 2013 No.4413754

>>4413695
>The west is the laughing stock of the world.
>We are the children who tried to grow up to fast. We are the teenager who fought and drank alot and then burnt out and died before it got old. The rest of the world is still working out their kinks and aging like wine.

I dont believe any of this for a second

Anonymous Sat Dec 28 13:15:32 2013 No.4413768 [DELETED]

>>4413754
You are in denial. I hate to shatter the bubble you live in, but the west is a joke. We are a bunch of whiny individualist who are lazy, wasteful, selfish, and refuse to help ourselves for the most part. The rise in calls for socialism is a direct result of cruelty in unchecked capitalism. We've defeated ourselves.

China is going to make Marx proud

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 28 13:16:32 2013 No.4413769 >>4413768 don't be so quick maybe the west will straighten itself out

Anonymous Sat Dec 28 13:16:32 2013 No.4413773

>>4413750
Grand narrative is looking at those isolated and varied cultures solely through the sense of your own. That's why it's not a valid position. I don't even think you're informed enough to be debating this. Go read some Foucault or something. Expand your mind.

Anonymous Sat Dec 28 13:17:32 2013 No.4413776

>>4413688
The thing about post-modernism is that it isn't a single 'thing'

In architecture it means one thing, in critical theory another.

In architecture the Modernists proscribed a Utopian doctrine that Utility Is Beauty. This saw the rise of tower blocks and mass housing units, in place of the slow, bourgeois planning and building efforts made by their predescors. This pseudo-utopianism (I doubt anybody was stupid enough to think it would be flawless) resulted in ugly estates filled with unhappy people, and the Utility doctrine on which they were built was taken up by the Nazis and so on, proving that utility and so on was not an inherently 'progressive' or 'beautiful' doctrine.

Postmodern architecture avoided all doctrines, and since industrilization had already allowed formerly bourgeoisie objects and designs to become kitsch (mass-produced and thus of lesser value) postmodern architects often toyed with formerly bourgeoisie designes. For example (thank god, an example!) you see Roman columns, or Victorian designs added onto a mall, or around a McDonalds drive-thru window. Instead of seeing history as a progressive movement post-modernism stopped, turned around and played with what had come before, aware that all other allegedly 'progressive' movements had eventually failed or were proven illusory.

This is ONE aspect of it, and if you think that I'm not being obfuscatory (I use that word as an ironic joke) then I'll be happy to give other example

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 28 13:18:32 2013 No.4413779 >>4413768 China isn't communist. Marx would vomit if he saw them. Try reading some Marx before you assert what he'd be proud of.

Anonymous Sat Dec 28 13:19:32 2013 No.4413785

>>4413741
Nah, I think it's primarily because people can't give credence to modernism even though a lot of its basic elements are still as valid and plausible as ever and a lot of the conditions that gave rise to it still apply. There's problematic elements and flaws and things it's difficult to resolve in modernism that became more evident as time goes on, and make the basic project more doubtful, and there's also historical and cultural developments that play into that, well before the growth of subcultures.

Anonymous Sat Dec 28 13:36:32 2013 No.4413830 [DELETED]

>>4413773
You are misunderstanding. All the cultures of the world experienced exactly what we did. technology is a means to an end. Art is just a variable of technology.Speech is technology friend.

White people have been Africans before. Culture is literally art evolving at its own pace, hence why some culture in he 14th century were still in the bronze age.

You are either the oppressor and the oppressed and both groups have. There is a paradigm in history. Oppressors and the oppressed and all culture and people have been subject to them so feels are irrelevant here. We have all been hunter, slaves, poor fucks, criminals, savages, etc.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 28 13:37:32 2013 No.4413833 >>4413830 this is exactly the kind of grand narrative that post-modernism rejects Hegelian as f*ck

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 28 13:40:33 2013 No.4413845 >>4413779 >X isn't really communist >Y wasn't really communist >Z wasn't really communist Don't you get sick of this? It's a flawed ideology, so sad too bad love dad.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 28 13:42:32 2013 No.4413848 >>4413779 >China isn't communist. (not that guy) This is true, but supposedly China's capitalism is a stepping stone to the future socialism it desires.

Anonymous Sat Dec 28 13:45:32 2013 No.4413854 [DELETED]

>>4413769
I don't know. I doubt it. The capitalist elite have it here the way they want it. The west, especially America is land of docile people fed with blinding fantasys. America is literally land of the fetish, for everything. Freedom here has become slavery. You must be slave to your interests.
>>4413779
He would puke at the west and thank any god if there is one for the hope the resides within the east. At least those people have their humanity.

>>4413785
I think that is where survival of the fittest, fits into capitalism. but a good, non controlled capitalism. It is clear that the capitalist of the world have a strangle hold on our ways of life. It is no longer the advances coming from our governments, but from our capitalist. The spice of life is art and he who controls the spice, controls the universe. He who can control the thoughts of others through artistic manipulation from language to technology is a type of position held by some major players in the world. Oil and Crop Genetics are the obvious players in that game, but many others are very subtle. If it is on TV believe that it is meant to persuade you to allocate money somewhere for you labor. You work for media by consuming it.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 28 13:47:32 2013 No.4413859 >>4413845 It's only flawed because the people who control it are. The idea itself, is pure. Often we see the world through the scope it has developed in.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 28 13:51:32 2013 No.4413868 >>4413845 >X is blue! >Actually, X is green. >NO TRU EYERISHMAN U R DUM LOL Don't you get sick of this? Your ideology is flawed, so sad too bad love dad.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 28 13:54:32 2013 No.4413873 >>4413859 Something that sounds good on paper and has killed millions in a dozen countries in less than 100 years should not be thrust back into the arena on the basis that "maybe it will work this time"

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 28 13:54:32 2013 No.4413875 >>4413873 Agreed, down with free-market capitalism

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 28 13:55:32 2013 No.4413876 >>4413868 Do you want to try again or are you too anally devastated by simple observances?

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 28 13:56:32 2013 No.4413877 >>4413294 Cultural autism. Characterized by a lack of reading comprehension, inability to engage in introspective thinking, lack of interpersonal relationships and an increase in technical and legalistic thinking.

Anonymous Sat Dec 28 13:56:32 2013 No.4413878

>>4413565
>This kind of irony is also known as "The New Sincerity", and in the wider world is exemplified by the works of Wes Anderson, Zach Braff, Miranda July, and Dave Eggers and the McSweeney's crowd, and works like Juno, Little Miss Sunshine, The Sound of Young America and other cultural lowlights of the last two decades. Under their surface of mildy self-critical whimsy, all these works are in the business of providing feelgood sermons for deserving liberals, empowerment for the already empowered. They all exploit the New Sincerity's built-in redemption narrative: irony redeemed by sincerity, phony liberal guilt and self-loathing overcome by the revelation that you're a genuinely good and superior and blameless person after all.
Well that fell apart quickly.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 28 14:00:32 2013 No.4413882 >>4413877 This thread is, itself, an excellent example of the coming wave of Cultural Autism.

Anonymous Sat Dec 28 14:02:32 2013 No.4413885

>>4413875
>LE XD

For the record I'm not MUH FREEMARKET so you can continue strawmanning if you'd like but it doesn't make communism less flawed and it doesn't make it a viable option. People suck, considering your assumed unending victim complex and championing of "little guy" I would hope you would realize this is inherent to human nature, but I suppose I'm asking a bit much for someone who is this defensive over a system of governance that has failed 100% of the time because "muh pure idea on paper".

You're a faggot, Harry.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 28 14:04:32 2013 No.4413890 >>4413877 So like Lord of the Rings but with less wonder? >>4413882 Well if we're basing this new movement off of the thread were in, I think Cultural Autisms in for some good old political theory driven /pol/ style rhetoric. See here >>4413854

Anonymous Sat Dec 28 14:05:32 2013 No.4413894

>>4413875

Capitalism has brought every country out of poverty wherever it has been tried.

Socialism has brought untold misery, poverty and stagnation wherever it has been inplemented.

Wait nevermind, I'm wrong because logic and science are "bourgeiose" concepts.

Lel

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 28 14:14:32 2013 No.4413909 >>4413878 Hey, I didn't say it was perfect. If you want perfect read his review of Ender's Game.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 28 14:15:32 2013 No.4413911 >>4413894 Depends what you mean by "out of poverty". Most countries still have poverty as the norm for vast segments of their population.

Anonymous Sat Dec 28 14:21:32 2013 No.4413925

>>4413909
Maybe I will, but I'm tired of all of these emotionally wrought "opinion pieces" filled with sweeping generalizations and ignorant sinplifications. And if the word hipster passes through my ears one more time I may slip into a rage-induced seizure.
and I like DFW and Wes Anderson, both of whom are associated with the movement, so I'm a little butthurt

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 28 14:24:33 2013 No.4413936 >>4413925 "Think piece". The phrase is "think piece".

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 28 14:25:32 2013 No.4413941 >>4413936 is it? I'm tired.

Anonymous Sat Dec 28 14:33:32 2013 No.4413959

>>4413925
I go to the college DFW graduated from, and let me tell you, he's baselessly worshiped here (as in people who've never read a word he's written assert he's the best author in existence). So I'm on the other side: I get a huge kick out of someone who has something mean to say about him.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 28 14:48:13 2013 No.4414009 >>4413959 He actually didn't mention Wallace, only the movement he may have kick started. I liked his piece on Enders game, the delicious thing about it is that you could apply the same argument to Name of the Wind.

Anonymous Sat Dec 28 14:53:13 2013 No.4414025 [DELETED]

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>>4413873
Freedom has killed millions in dozens of countries, what is your point. That we must not die for a better world. Until every man is willing to die for his existence and the unity of man our world will suffer this capitalist filth.

>>4413878
That description: pic related. How perfect is that.

>>4413894
And some drugs make you feel great and then you die cold and alone.

Anonymous Sat Dec 28 15:03:12 2013 No.4414061

>>4414025
I actually hated that description, partly because it uses political rhetoric, straw men, and feelings to obscure the shallowness of the argument, and partly because it clumps together a collection of artists, in that passage ranging from incredible to mediocre, into a movement that only exists to hand wringers and cultural critics (kek).
Actually, that passage seems awfully similar to what you've been posting, I can see why you would like it.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 28 15:08:13 2013 No.4414074 >>4413833 narratives are funnier though the modernist gets on stage and acts the postmodernist gets on stage and shouts "IM ON A STAGE IM ON A STAGE, IM THE NEW META"

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 28 15:09:14 2013 No.4414076 >>4413688 run into the forest save yourself close your ears

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 28 15:09:14 2013 No.4414077 >>4414025 >FREEDOM HAS KILLED BILLIONS socialists are actually this brainwashed and sychophantic

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 28 15:12:13 2013 No.4414086 >>4413830 Unilinear Evolution of culture hasn't been accepted by thinking people for about 100 years. You sound like a stuffy Victorian anthropologist.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 28 15:15:13 2013 No.4414093 >>4414025 >Freedom has killed millions Okay so are you conceding or is this a poor trolling attempt?

Anonymous Sat Dec 28 15:16:13 2013 No.4414097

>>4414074
I don't think post-modernism is faced with the choice. I think it's essential to the post-modern condition that one is sincerely unable to give credence to grand narratives, even if you think they're better. Using your example, the post-modernist couldn't get up and seriously, sincerely act.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 28 15:19:13 2013 No.4414103 >>4414097 living a grand narrative requires courage, beauty arises from the unfolding of the narratives pragmatic romanticism ftw

Anonymous Sat Dec 28 15:20:13 2013 No.4414110
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Authenticism.

Something that goes against our current "glued to our iphones instagram/twitter" culture. A reversion to real face to face interaction, a rejection of unrelentless skepsis. A yearning for what is real and what is there. Possibly a rejection of speculative financial and political systems. Second-religiousness, possibly anti-intellectualism. Also, a fervor for imperial expansionism.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 28 15:21:13 2013 No.4414111 >>4414103 How does it require courage? It's a complete rejection of reality and a retreat into simplistic ideology. The real world is complex. Stop trying to reduce it to a single framework.

Anonymous Sat Dec 28 15:23:13 2013 No.4414121

>>4414097
No, it would have to be authentic and no stage act is authentic. Since it's an act, it's simulation. The only thing that's authentic is what is not mass culture since you could then be blamed for following something other than yourself. It's the hipsters paradox, the paradox of post-modernity, the paradox that will lead to a counter reaction.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 28 15:26:13 2013 No.4414136 >>4414110 Nothing is more authentic than hipsters, they are striving for the true indievidual expression and still got caught up in mass culture. Get on with the times Evolafags.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 28 15:28:00 2013 No.4414142 >>4414061 Yeah, its a post modern way of saying it, but it gets the point across. I'm a little emotional about it, but it is still generally and logically correct. I just have a preference for all of man kind over selfish garbage.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 28 15:30:13 2013 No.4414153 >>4414136 ...what? What do hipsters have to do with philosophical movements?

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 28 15:32:13 2013 No.4414161 File: 116 KB, 650x646, 1388262755465.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>4413911 >implying poverty isn't lower right now than anyt other time in history thanks to free markets and industrialization

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 28 15:33:30 2013 No.4414166 >>4414153 They are the expression of our times friend, the zeitgeist of the modern west.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 28 15:33:30 2013 No.4414168 >>4414161 Don't bother arguing with these buttmad socialists. They spend too much time surrounded by their lefitst literature in their university english classes to know how the world actually works

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 28 15:34:30 2013 No.4414174 >>4414142 I identify as as Socialistic too, but becoming overly emotional is a great way to become a caricature of a socialist over a real one.

Anonymous Sat Dec 28 15:36:30 2013 No.4414177

>>4413768
>rampant corruption
>wealthy government supported plutocrats
>poor people stuck in conditions so terrible they're forced to live in abandoned military installations
>mean spirited people, always wanting to take advantage from anyone stupid enough not to play their game

Yeah, total communist utopia that one.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 28 15:36:30 2013 No.4414178 >>4414168 No we are remedying the flaws so the vile hounds of capitalism don't eat themselves. You are just so under read you can't see it.

Anonymous Sat Dec 28 15:36:30 2013 No.4414180

>>4414166
Hipsters are a result of our current establishment. Hipsters are just as conformist as any other social label out there. They're all edgy, liberal ironic post-modernists. They're just leftists with iphones, and they will all be crushed in the coming movements

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 28 15:38:30 2013 No.4414182 >>4414161 >implying "free markets" have ever existed States create markets, kid.

Anonymous Sat Dec 28 15:39:30 2013 No.4414190
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>>4414178
But your so called remedies are what's creating "hounds of capitalism" in the first place. For example, monopolies are the result of corporations lobbying the government to put regulations on smaller companies so they can't compete, thus creating corporatism.

Every "remedy" provided by leftists are actually helping the elite, which is the ultimate irony

Anonymous Sat Dec 28 15:41:30 2013 No.4414196

>>4414180
>and they will all be crushed in the coming movements

Take your pills Johnny. Contrary to the beliefs that's evolved in your basement they are exactly the expression of society and the paradox in their kind will lead to the next movement which will contain parts of hipsterism. They won't get crushed they will simply adapt like the hippies that started listening to disco and get MBAs when the wall street era was born in the early 80's. Try to go outside.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 28 15:41:31 2013 No.4414198 >>4414182 Yes, I agree that a state needs to exist to protect property rights, how does that disprove the claim that free enterprise capitalism is the single most efficient way of bringing prosperity to countries?

Anonymous Sat Dec 28 15:41:31 2013 No.4414200 [DELETED]

>>4414077
Implying freedom is a brainwashing concept. America has literally been controlling the people on FREEDOM highs. Muh freedom, home of the brave, muh patriotism. I would expect this from pol.

>>4414086
In the past it was. Technology is linear. There are a few variables to cultures and what comes first, but technology is about ideas coming together so until you have a mean use of both tools coming together. Evolution of technology, not humans.
>>4414093
I'm appealing to you by telling you that the reasons you call for me to be invalid are apply to you as well. I am invalid to you because I am the paradigm on the opposite end of your own thoughts.

>>4414097
Exactly. The post modernists simply are not intelligent enough to understand the narrative. Post mo is a bunch of hacks who haven gotten famous and a massive following historically because of their stupidity. It is like dogmatic religious following currently.

>>4414103
I want to change the world and I see its problems and I want to be a part of fixing.them, You are damn right it requires courage.

>>4414136
I find them to be a tragedy. In their search for individuality, they find conformity. It's like a tragic novel.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 28 15:43:30 2013 No.4414206 >>4414200 Technology isn't the same as culture. Go read Heidegger's essay "On the Question Concerning Technology" and you won't sound like a misinformed prat.

Anonymous Sat Dec 28 15:43:31 2013 No.4414202

>>4414190
>monopolies are the result of corporations lobbying the government to put regulations on smaller companies so they can't compete, thus creating corporatism.

This is capitalist protectionism it goes far back, read more friend. Nowhere does socialist literature say that's a good thing.

Anonymous Sat Dec 28 15:43:31 2013 No.4414203

>>4414161
>Something's wrong with capitalism
>"Oh well that's because there market isn't free it isn't REAL capitalism"
>Something's okay with capitalism
>"YEAH FREE MARKERTS SAVE DA DAY!!!!"

Liberals, everyone.

Also, to be clear, neoliberalism has increased poverty exponentially thanks to creating and exploiting the second and third worlds. Those that are decidedly wrong, no matter how you look at it, but maintain power will always bend the perception of reality so that, no matter what, they're always right.

Anonymous Sat Dec 28 15:44:30 2013 No.4414212

>>4414198
Because it hasn't been proven? There is no such thing as "free enterprise" and never has been? Most of the prosperous industries have been heavily subsidized by governments? The list goes on and on. But hey, go wank to Ayn Rand some more if you want.

Anonymous Sat Dec 28 15:44:30 2013 No.4414214 [DELETED]

>>4414180
I hope they will.
>>4414177
They are rising. There is a transition. It isn't nearly as bad as you think. Western culture has spoiled your idea of wealth and great living. The greatest kings in history did not enjoy the luxuries of a current westerner. Even a bum is better off.

>>4414174
You are right, but I am just angry. We are lossing the battle in America. Socialism is not the socialism we are getting in America.

Anonymous Sat Dec 28 15:45:30 2013 No.4414216

>>4414196
they will literally get crushed, as in killed, because the happening is happening

What I'm referring to is the coming Right Wing movements which will spread throughout Europe and the US as foreign populations continue to grow exponentially, as well as the coming global energy crises. Hipsters will have no place in the happening, it will be all about mercenary armies and traditional values. Multiculturalism and leftism will be discredited

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 28 15:47:30 2013 No.4414227 >>4414216 >muh illusions Ok friend, remember to take your pills. Why are you so mad at people who don't embrace mainstream music and art that you want them dead? How can one be this mad?

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 28 15:47:30 2013 No.4414229 >>4414214 I'm pretty sure a bum who sleeps in a cardboard box in an alley doesn't have it as good as Tiberius Caesar for example. So, no I don't buy that.

Anonymous Sat Dec 28 15:48:30 2013 No.4414231

>>4414190
>For example, monopolies are the result of corporations lobbying the government to put regulations on smaller companies so they can't compete
Keep saying it won't make it true. Monopolies are created when a company buys out competition. Simply put, monopolies are the result of the free market and hording capital, which is called capitalism. Oops.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 28 15:48:30 2013 No.4414236 >>4413565 The critiques sound much better.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 28 15:50:30 2013 No.4414245 >>4414214 >Even a bum is better off. Confirmed for unconscious or upper-crust.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 28 15:51:30 2013 No.4414250 >>4414216 >implying that wouldn't be the prime-time for Left revolution

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 28 15:51:30 2013 No.4414253 >>4414245 The middle class is better of than C16 aristocracy in terms of comfort, health and objective wealth and luxury.

Anonymous Sat Dec 28 15:53:31 2013 No.4414257 [DELETED]

>>4414206
I didn't say it was. I said it acted similarly with culture. There is only so muc varation at different levels up until modern which is micro divisions.

>>4414229
Possibly. You have to realize what life was like in regards to home design at the time. bare architecture, no appliance, plumbing. Food was scarce, books only to the king, entertainment is human labor, etc.

Technology has changed our mediums of action and the rate of them, but it has also forced our culture to change.

Anonymous Sat Dec 28 15:55:30 2013 No.4414264

>>4414216
Politically opting to kill hipsters would be the quintessential post-modern joke.

"Somewhere along the line humans started killing each other over which consumer products and consumer culture they adhered to, which clothes they wore and what food they chose to eat" - historian 2446

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 28 15:56:30 2013 No.4414265 >>4414253 >>4414245 Nice moving goal-posts btw.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 28 15:57:30 2013 No.4414273 >>4414265 I'm not the other guy but I support his case. I'm this guy btw >>4414253

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 28 16:00:30 2013 No.4414281 >>4414257 No, it doesn't act similarly to culture, and you've done nothing to demonstrate that it does.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 28 17:26:19 2013 No.4414559 >>4413455 > Will Have you like read any literature in past 25 years?

Anonymous Sun Dec 29 01:27:16 2013 No.4416179

>>4414168
>>4413894
I love it whenever a libertarian talks. Its literally like a fountain of shit flying out of their mouths.

What is with the zealotry? If you aren't willing to hear out a opposing position, then how do you know you are right?

Rampant capitalism or rampant socialism both can mean shitty times.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 29 01:31:13 2013 No.4416188 commercialism

Anonymous Sun Dec 29 01:34:22 2013 No.4416199

Did someone say New Sincerity? It's already happened. It's already here.

>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Sincerity
>A noted example of New Sincerity as a cultural movement is the adult fans of the Canadian/American animated television show, My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic which premiered in 2010. The show is designed to foster sales of Hasbro's toy line, but has attracted older teenage and adult fans outside the show's target demographic of young girls and their parents. The fans, who call themselves bronies, have been described as "internet neo-sincerity at its best", unabashedly enjoying the show and challenging the preconceived gender roles that such a show normally carries.[32][33] As many of these fans are technology-savvy, the brony community have created a large number of derivative works ranging from artwork, stories, music, and video media.[33]

Anonymous Sun Dec 29 01:43:13 2013 No.4416220

Someone may have already mentioned this but I think it's more likely that everything will stay as it is now i.e. people write in the forms they want to and readers seek those out if they want them.

To echo the NEW SINCERITY folks here, yeah, it uh seems to have peaked in the early 2000s...

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 29 02:48:04 2013 No.4416331 I've been reading some zizek and interested in jumping in to hegel. Should I even consider post modernism, very interesting perceptions of things. What are critiques I should read?

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 29 03:01:04 2013 No.4416349 >>4413294 True Intellectual Communism.

Anonymous Sun Dec 29 03:24:09 2013 No.4416385

New sincerity isn't hard to conceive. Nobody saw Django here? Its basically that.
Parody and ironic spaghetti western movies are post-modernism.
Django is the next shit, New Sincerity, post-irony, whatever. Take something cheesy and appreciate it seriously, recognizing its fun instead of using irony to put yourself on a higher intellectual level

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 29 03:57:09 2013 No.4416414 >>4416385 If that's the case, then Tarantino has been the pioneer of New Sincerity since Kill Bill. And, again, if that's the case, then New Sincerity is going to be mostly awful.

Anonymous Sun Dec 29 04:13:10 2013 No.4416429

Literalism

Medical and technological advances lead to human cyber-augmentation, joining man and machine as one. Irony, symbolism, allegory, metaphor, and abstraction of any form become obsolete as our computerized semi-mechanical digi-brains are incapable of interpreting language outside of the strictly literal. Everything is to be written and read as 100% exactly what the author literally meant.

The Singularity is coming. Prepare for institutionalized autism.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 29 06:58:50 2013 No.4416529 >>4416429 So we're all to become Germans after all...great....

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 29 07:20:07 2013 No.4416552 >>4413565 Irony is only dead in America, it still is a thing in all other western nations

Anonymous Sun Dec 29 07:22:06 2013 No.4416555

We're in metamodernity.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metamodernism
The question is, what comes next?
I would like creative communism situationist style with no division between labour, art and life, but that's just my personal preference. Maybe we gon have some post-apocalyptic fun. Probably we'll have the decline of the US and the rise of China, leading to international culture that's a more complete humanism based not just on the west.

GirlJesus !!ggYw9XaQXSW Sun Dec 29 07:32:23 2013 No.4416574

>>4416429
Thomas Ligotti writes about this briefly in The Conspiracy Against The Human Race. His argument is that any adaptions to our biological makeup will be made in accordance with human interests; that, after technology is used to erase mortality, it will then (and this is my own elaboration) be used to enhance mostly human-centric sensations, the scent of a flower, the ocular complexity of a rainbow, the amount of times we can fuck in one day and so on. The argument is that, because of this, paradoxes such as logic v. nature and so on will in absolutely no sense be done away with by transhumanism, and that we will still be stuck producing and consuming artworks in order to reconcile our meaninglessness with our goal of continued existence, and that therefore art will continue going throuh these retarded 'stages' (most of which is my extrapolation; I don't think he extended his theory to 'the future of art' at all, at least in that book).

>>	GirlJesus !!ggYw9XaQXSW Sun Dec 29 07:52:25 2013 No.4416597 >>4416552 Speak for your own Western nation, bud

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 29 07:52:25 2013 No.4416600 >>4413776 I looked up to your name expecting you to be a tripfag because of the effort you put into that post. I just wanted to thank you for posting. I appreciated reading that.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 29 07:56:24 2013 No.4416609 >>4416555 >We're in metamodernity. Why is that? Because you happened to read the Wikipedia article and now subscribe to everything it says? The premise doesn't even make sense.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 29 08:22:12 2013 No.4416628 >>4413294 futuro-cynicism

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 29 08:27:11 2013 No.4416633 File: 129 KB, 500x667, de goya.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>4413294 Neo-Hellenism pls zeus make it happen pls

Anonymous Sun Dec 29 08:28:11 2013 No.4416636
File: 117 KB, 768x1024, 1376934276415.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

It will be interesting to see some comparison between eastern and western literature after some more years of the ongoing trade conflict.

I also think that the next thing after post modernism is going to be cleverly labelled as the stage where people are desperately trying to find a label for it.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 29 08:33:11 2013 No.4416640 >>4416633 Yes please, I fully support this and I'm an Atheist.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 29 08:42:28 2013 No.4416646 File: 126 KB, 474x314, transepicurean.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>4416640 >yfw Epicurean garden in space

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 29 08:46:28 2013 No.4416650 >>4416646 With a dungeon full genetically engineered hellenic creatures and gods to fuck when I secretly cheat on my Epicureanism. Ataraxia doesn't solve everything, mothafucka!

Anonymous Sun Dec 29 09:08:05 2013 No.4416682
File: 145 KB, 267x269, Spacepork_3735.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>4416650
To quote the Vatican Sayings:

>51. [addressing a young man] I understand from you that your natural disposition is too much inclined toward sexual passion. Follow your inclination as you will, provided only that you neither violate the laws, disturb well-established customs, harm any one of your neighbors, injure your own body, nor waste your possessions. That you be not checked by one or more of these provisos is impossible; for a man never gets any good from sexual passion, and he is fortunate if he does not receive harm.

I'd say that allows for android and clone and vr pussy and shit.

brb rendering some nymps
brb dwelling in eternal arcadia of the mind with pan
brb getting my spasm on in techno-eden

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 29 11:58:20 2013 No.4417093 >>4413695 what? like what even? is this how the world works and should be view as a competition?

Anonymous Sun Dec 29 12:13:20 2013 No.4417142
File: 58 KB, 475x484, 16.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>4413894
ahahaha assuming because a tiny minority of a country has more money that it is out of poverty.

vast majorities of 3rd world nations who accept free market have a tiny rich minority but huge, poverty stricken majority

Anonymous Sun Dec 29 12:21:20 2013 No.4417154

>>4413565
>http://www.maximumfun.org/blog/2006/02/manifesto-for-new-sincerity.html
I personally really like New Sincerity as a movement, and think that if handled correctly and without anhedonic nihilism, it can be a very powerful, capable moevement. However, god damn that manifesto is terrible and a drag on the movement.

Anonymous Sun Dec 29 12:37:20 2013 No.4417201

>>4413294
aetatem.

people today tend to think that we outgrew humanity, and "social constraints/constructs" a long time ago, when we really should have synthesized the reliable traditionalism of our past with the dynamic progressiveness of our present, to create a new philosophy for our formidable future. there's nothing to tether us to higher ideals.

we may have become more clever since our bronze age days, but we haven't grown up. we aren't the enlightened modern community that we tout ourselves to be. instead of ushering in a new movement of enlightened modernity, we've succumbed to nihilism, sacrilege, decadence. imo, this is utterly depressing.

Anonymous Sun Dec 29 13:34:25 2013 No.4417425

>>4416385
>>4416414
Can you imagine New Sincerity as the majority of the arts and Post Modernism being the minority? Yeah, it is nice to see New Sincerity work every once in a while right now, but I can't imagine how boring everything would be if it became the norm.

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/lit/ - Literature