[ 3 / biz / cgl / ck / diy / fa / ic / jp / lit / sci / vr / vt ] [ index / top / reports ] [ become a patron ] [ status ]
2023-11: Warosu is now out of extended maintenance.

/lit/ - Literature

View post   
File: 8 KB, 185x272, images.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4412048 No.4412048[DELETED]  [Reply] [Original]

>I have known many gods. He who denies them is as blind as he who trusts them too deeply. I seek not beyond death. It may be the blackness averred by the Nemedian skeptics, or Crom's realm of ice and cloud, or the snowy plains and vaulted halls of the Nordheimer's Valhalla. I know not, nor do I care. Let me live deep while I live; let me know the rich juices of red meat and stinging wine on my palate, the hot embrace of white arms, the mad exultation of battle when the blue blades flame and crimson, and I am content. Let teachers and priests and philosophers brood over questions of reality and illusion. I know this: if life is illusion, then I am no less an illusion, and being thus, the illusion is real to me. I live, I burn with life, I love, I slay, and am content.

Why do you disagree with Conan's (and by extension Howard's) paradigm?

>> No.4412055

no, I agree

fuck metaphysics

>> No.4412079 [DELETED] 

>>4412048
He's a dumb nigger who's trying to justify not going to church, but saying he's spiritual. Believe or don't, but don't make yourself a bed time story where you get infinite life regardless of your hedonistic actions

>> No.4412095

>>4412079
huh?

he just said he doesn't care...

its basically apatheism

>> No.4412108 [DELETED] 

>>4412079
Silly chritsfag. offended Conan's agnosticism. Hohoho.

>> No.4412117 [DELETED] 
File: 64 KB, 800x600, Africa - Temple to Ba'al.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4412117

>>4412079
Silly christfag. Offended at Conan's agnosticism? Hohoho.

>> No.4412116

>>4412048
Quite philosophical of Conan.

>> No.4412151

>>4412116
Conan was a very philosophical character if you just delve into Howard's works. Dumb movie adaptations and pastiches have contributed to make him look like a jock-like parody of the Terminator but Howard's original novels instilled many themes and thought into his coveted creation. If you read novels with other characters (El Borak, Kull), you'll find recurring themes in the way they think and the way they interact with the world, especially the civilized world.

>> No.4412169

>>4412151
im intrigued, where do I start?

>> No.4412176

>>4412151
I've actually just recently started reading through REH's Conan stories. Dude is surprisingly nuanced. Impossible for me to imagine Schwarzenegger as the character now. Not that I ever really did before, considering I've never really sat through any of the movies.

>> No.4412183

>>4412176
Schwarzenegger is actually a very interesting and intelligent fellow himself, his movie persona does not do him justice. You'd have to imagine someone who won Mr Olympia, became a Hollywood actor with that terrible accent and then became a successful politician is going to be a pretty cool dude.

>> No.4412189

>>4412095
>He who denies them is as blind

>>4412117
I'm an atheist and Conan is a theist. I can never understand the mindset that all organized religion is bad but i'll still be religious and make up my own rules

>> No.4412199

>>4412183
Arnie go to bed. You bang mexicans and got elected by stoners

>> No.4412203

>>4412151

But the 1982 Conan movie is actually really philosophical. The whole thing's Nietzschean as hell.

>> No.4412209
File: 2.41 MB, 1144x1600, 1388204169464.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4412209

>>4412199
U MIRIN BRAH?

>> No.4412227

>>4412183
This, he isn't that bad at all, a pretty decent public speaker and at least fairly intelligent.

He did a fucking awful job as Governor after the first three or so years though, California's better off now but we also have much better governor now.

>> No.4412232

>>4412169
You can pretty much find Robert E Howard's entire Conan collections anywhere. Hell, I started reading them after downloading a REH megapack on a whim for my Kindle. The stories are short, so you don't have to worry about tracking down multiple volumes.

>> No.4412234

>>4412209
*sniff* n-no you better get out of here before I embarrass your plebeian literary tastes with my critical patrician analysis

>> No.4412292

>>4412169
Howard loved to describe the downfall of civilized societies and Conan often happens to stumble upon them. Beyond the Black River
and Red Nails are often considered to be among his deepest and most heavily themed works. I know a Howard specialist (yeah they actually exist) who state Beyond the Black River was probably Howard's masterpiece. I suggest you should read the novels and short stories in the order they were written so you can see how Howard's thought evolved. If you have a bit of the /srs/ vibe you'll notice how he used to be very racist at first before evolving toward a more relativistic point of view as he aged (deciding that all humans were equally wicked)

>> No.4412358

>>4412232
I found them on bookz

>> No.4412603

>>4412176
Not to mention Conan is more of a swarthy dude with black hair and black eyes.

>> No.4412736

Howard was a paranoid schizophrenic, that's what have the books a 'edge'

>> No.4412802

I agree. I wish I had the wherewithal to live in such a fashion.

>> No.4412812

>>4412292
http://conan.wikia.com/wiki/Red_Nails

>> No.4412862

>>4412203
>Nietzschean
no its not, you pleb

>> No.4412998

?So I became great and?surpassed all who were before me in Jerusalem. Also my?wisdom remained with me.?10?And whatever my eyes desired I did not keep from them. I kept my heart from no pleasure, for my heart?found pleasure in all my toil, and this was my?reward for all my toil.?11?Then I considered all that my hands had done and the toil I had expended in doing it, and behold, all wasvanity and a striving after wind, and there was nothing?to be gained under the sun.

>> No.4413722

>>4412736
Howard was the ultimate beta. He had only one gf in his whole life and he wrote a beta self-insert to fight alongside Conan.

>> No.4413784

>>4413722
Not really, he did some boxing and was pretty fit. His problem was his mental health and i don't mean 4chan's version of poor mental health, he had some real issues. And it was fairly ok to have just 1 woman your life in those times.

>> No.4413790

>>4413784
It still is. Remember that if you've dated a lot of women, it means you've failed a lot of relationships so there's either something wrong with you or something wrong with the women you date (and retrospectively with you).

>> No.4413794

>>4413784
Didn't he kill himself upon learning the death of his mother?
>implying I didn't think of doing the same

>> No.4413800

>>4413790
This. Mansluts are no better than Femsluts.

>> No.4413820

>>4413794
Yes, he did. But i don't think it was his sole reason it was more likely just a final straw. I also remember reading that his suicide turned terribly bad and he was suffering a lot before he finally died.

>> No.4413884 [DELETED] 

Speaking of Conan, this dropped to my mailbox a week ago. Thick, leather bound, almost 1000 pages of Conan. Such a beautiful book.

>> No.4413887
File: 39 KB, 400x430, conan_chronicles.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4413887

Speaking of Conan, this dropped to my mailbox a week ago. Thick, leather bound, almost 1000 pages of Conan. Such a beautiful book.

>> No.4413920

>>4412862
Yes it is, there is a huge fucking essay about it do some googling and you are bound to find it.

>> No.4414031

>>4413790
>>4413800


Wow, talk about lying to your self to justify your lack of sexual encounters.

>A lock that opens to any key is a shitty lock...
>however A key that can open any lock is a master key
>the massive divide between being a slutty woman and a slutty man is staggering
>a woman can go get fucked any night of the week regardless of how ugly she is
>this is not true with a man
>and a man whos had a lot of "relationships" as you call them is just a man who has not found a woman who isn't insane.
>a woman who's a loose goose drunk fuck whore is going to have emotional issues that stay with her from relationship to relationship...

Massive difference between these two and I'm shocked at the casual manner in which you both compared them equally.

>> No.4414059

>>4413887
I've got it, I've read it, it has everything including novel fragments. Read the included biography piece too.

But let me also say that Conan is not as 'deep' as some people here seem to be claiming. It's fascism-steeped sword-and-sorcery. That's it. Don't be expecting something more and than getting disappointed.

>> No.4414070
File: 338 KB, 1237x867, stirner15.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4414070

>>4412048
Conan confirmed for Stirnerist.

>> No.4414075

>>4414031
>A lock that opens to any key is a shitty lock...
>however A key that can open any lock is a master key
>people actually use this argument seriously without realizing it was a joke
Any community that gets its laughs by pretending to be idiots will eventually be flooded by actual idiots who mistakenly believe that they're in good company.

>> No.4414078

>>4414031
>a woman can go get fucked any night of the week regardless of how ugly she is
>this is not true with a man
People actually believe this?

>and a man whos had a lot of "relationships" as you call them is just a man who has not found a woman who isn't insane.
And why can't he find a sane woman?

>> No.4414080

>>4414059
> It's fascism-steeped sword-and-sorcery.
dude what

>> No.4414085

>>4414080
Well, it seemed pretty steeped in fascism to me. I'm not saying it's a bad thing, it was just my impression after reading his oeuvre.

>> No.4414092

>>4414085
Were you influenced by some of his unfinished works that were ripe with racism? Because these are marginal at best. The most important themes in Howard's novels are the degeneracy of civilization and its inevitable destruction. How do they relate to fascism?

>> No.4414095

>>4414031
>I read PUA blogs because women have it too easy!

>> No.4414106

>>4414078

People believe what? That its way easier for a woman to go to a bar, pick up a guy and fuck than it is for a man, regardless of physical appearance? That is not something to believe in one way or another that's just the way it is. Do i need to post you to blog after blog of women who've tried out this very thing? Who saw sex in the city as inspiration to fuck lots of different men and who spent a full year trying it? why don't you google it if you think its something to "believe in"

>And why can't he find a sane woman?

The same reason you can't get to the end of the rainbow...

such a thing is a hoax, women spend to much of their youth/puberty terrorizing one another emotionally to grow up sane in anyway or form.

I could elaborate on this but I think my words would go unread.

>> No.4414157

>>4414106
I'm sorry all the women you met were like that.

>> No.4414162

>>4414106
>That its way easier for a woman to go to a bar, pick up a guy and fuck than it is for a man, regardless of physical appearance? That is not something to believe in one way or another that's just the way it is. Do i need to post you to blog after blog of women who've tried out this very thing? Who saw sex in the city as inspiration to fuck lots of different men and who spent a full year trying it? why don't you google it if you think its something to "believe in"
Men do it too, they even blog about techniques on how to do it too.
http://www.rooshv.com/

>> No.4414164
File: 57 KB, 403x335, not actually scottish.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4414164

>>4414157
What sample size do you suggest?

>> No.4414191

>>4414164
It's not that much a matter of sample size and more a matter of the social circles you frequent. If you find all the women you meet to be emotional fuck-ups then it tells quite a bit about your current emotional fuckupery state.

>> No.4414211

>>4414092
Nah, the racism doesn't really have anything to do with the fascism. Fascism is preoccupied, among other things, with the degeneracy of civilisation, with ideals of manliness and virility, with purity, with the warrior spirit, and with dreams of a golden past which fuel visions of a golden future. Conan is pretty much an embodiment of a lot of these things.

Also it's been a while and I'm mainly working with my overall impressions of him--most of the narratives are pretty blurry in my mind.

>> No.4414237

>>4414211
Yeah but there is no exaltation of a nationalistic sentiment, which is paramount in fascism. Conan never ever goes to Cimmeria nor does he meet a fellow Cimmerian. He fraternizes with people from all countries, including blacks ("Kushites"). Also Howard never criticizes civilization per se, he only describes how its downfall is inevitable.

>> No.4414449

>>4414191
You don't even know what he means by sane and which standards he holds. Why would you outright dismiss that there are no women who live up to his standards, apart from not liking the idea yourself?

"There are worthwhile women you just haven't looked well enough" doesn't amount to much more to "everyone has a purpose in life you just have to find it" or some such bullet proof platitudes, since you can always say "look a little harder", "it's just around the corner", "you just haven't looked in the right places yet!'.

>> No.4414460

>>4414162
The fact that men discuss techniques is enough to demonstrate their disadvantage.

>> No.4414478

>>4412048
Looks like yolo with swords to me.

>> No.4414488

>>4414449
I'm not arguing that there are worthwhile women out there because I don't know what he means (or you mean) by "worthwhile", I'm simply arguing that his constant dissatisfaction tells a lot about HIMSELF than the innate characteristics of ALL WOMEN since there are many, many women on Earth but the only common variable in his interactions with women was himself. Whether the women he interacted with were worthwhile or not is besides the point, what matters is what he felt.

>> No.4414504

>>4414460
No, the fact is that the guy does the exact same as the women you describe: walk up to people and convince them to have sex. You seem to assume that all men are desperate for sex, would never turn down sex when offered, consider sexual prowess to be a prime achievement and always think about getting laid to some extent. If that's true, I have to tell you that this isn't the case for all men and you're making swiping generalizations based on yourself and maybe your social circle.

>> No.4414522

>>4414504
Not talking about absolutes, just saying that it's easier for women to get laid. I don't see why such an obvious observation is so hard to accept.

>> No.4414540

>>4414522
No, it's easier for people who aren't socially awkward to get laid. Whether they have a penis or not is irrelevant.

>> No.4414571

>>4412048
>if life is illusion, then I am no less an illusion
But that's wrong, you retard.
Well, at least it isn't necessarily true.
Basically he's a hedonist that's willfully ignorant, and is content with, instead of an eternity of bliss and joy, a short hard life on earth.
Fuck Conan, and fuck the guy that wrote him, if he actually believed this shit and was using Conan as a mouthpiece.

>> No.4414581

>>4414571
>life is an illusion
>i am a living being by definition
>i am an illusion
Logic 101 is hard for liberal art majors, isn't it? ;)

>> No.4414633

>>4414059
More like anarchy than fascism really. Howard was a primitivist.

>> No.4414691

>>4414571
>butthurt theist

>> No.4414774

Wow this thread took a turn.

>> No.4414838

>>4414059

>fascism-stepped sword-and-sorcery

Have you even opened the book?

Howard is never pro-fascism in his Conan stories. He's not even pro-civilization; he believes that the natural state of man is barbarism. He says it outright in one story, and suggests is in nearly every story by comparing Conan - a barbarian - favorably to the "depraved, deplorable, weak-backed" city dwellers.

I'm pretty sure Howard's ideal of man has nothing to do with fascism, and everything to do with hunting-gathering societies in semi-permanent settlements and tightly knit familial social units.

Howard's sword-and-sorcery is steeped in one thing, and that is an abiding respect for the barbarian and a deep distaste for "civilized culture," which he views as degenerate. Fascism couldn't exist in Howard's ideal culture, the Cimmerians.

>> No.4414985

>>4414838
>by comparing Conan - a barbarian - favorably to the "depraved, deplorable, weak-backed" city dwellers.

Hell, in nearly every story, the damsels in distress are disgusted by the "civilized" men, and literally throw themselves into Conan's arms.

>> No.4415041

>>4414540
Keep telling yourself that so that your egalitarian ideology doesn't lead to cognitive dissonance.

>> No.4415087

>>4414691
>>4414691
oh my god i can smell the fedora

>> No.4415100

>>4415041
Do you know that there is in fact a lot of socially awkward lonely girls out there. It's not to give you hope as even they probably wouldn't touch you, they exist and they can't into relationships either.

>> No.4415155

>>4415100
They're still more weary of throwing their pussy around because of all kinds of cultural inhibitions and social consequences.

>> No.4415167

>>4414838


'fascism' as used in discourse is basically power signaling to end debate.

realistically speaking, it often translates to: 'you judge right from wrong and i judge right from wrong, and i dont like your judgements. but i also dont want to imply this, so ill instead try to rhetorically judge judgment as wrong in general, using your judgments in particular as example'.


of course as a consequence of this, we can conclude that if youre not 'fascistic', youre irresponsible.

>> No.4415294

>>4415167
Or you could read the German Marxist theory of fascism in relation to Police Battalion studies and theory texts like Griffin's _Fascism_?

>> No.4415904

>>4414080
It's called 'paganism', not fascism--real pre-Christian paganism not the modern tree hugging reconstructions you see today.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_CVfJrt6y8
>great lecture on Howard

>> No.4415939

>>4415294


You seem to be implying that 'fascist' is used in an intellectually rigorous and definite manner in popular discourse.

I assure you this is not the case.

>> No.4415966

>>4415939
Most of /lit/'s population is "popular." A small number of us are intellectually rigorous and definite scholars. This is why I am calling you a shit gobbling cunt sneeze, I do so with precision.

>> No.4416108
File: 43 KB, 285x305, mr-rogers.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4416108

>>4415966


If there are, they were not in this thread, which was what the reply was for, you excitable baboon, tendentious pedant, you self serving blackgard, vile revisionist, thou sophistic moralizer.

>> No.4416155

Too much bullshit not enough manly conan

"Valeria is fleeing persecution for killing a would-be rapist. She is followed into this remote region by Conan, a fellow adventurer who is hoping to make her his woman. Conan, as his fans well know, does not have to go out of his way to obtain the favors of the fairest of the fair sex. Obviously, the woman Valeria represents something special to him; like Bêlit she is a woman of action and would make a fitting mate-woman. Valeria does not welcome Conan’s advances, for living as she has among men, she has been routinely subjected to their constant degrading attention and brutish attempts at coercion. Conan is determined to have her, and Valeria is determined to resist. Valeria is as formidable a warrior as many a man, and Conan is at a loss as to how to deal with her. Callous to constant sexual harassment, Valeria is unable to recognize the genuine respect and admiration Conan sincerely expresses towards her when he says, “`I’m not like that Stygian you knifed, and you know it.’” Conan and Valeria’s antagonism is representative of the battle of the sexes, and Howard describes their confrontation as “a scene at once ludicrous and perilous.”"

>> No.4416228

>>4416155
Valeria is one of the few girls he doesn't actually bang at the end of the novel (only kissing)

>> No.4416406

>>4414571
>if life is illusion, then I am no less an illusion
>this being wrong
It's wrong only in the sense that "Cogito ergo sum" is correct. There is an I, an I which is not an illusion. But the present form we believe to be the I can totally be an illusion. You exist. But the form is immaterial, as the form may be an illusion (just like reality and life). In short, "If life is illusion, then I am no less an illusion," is actually correct for the inferred value of I, the human existence we believe in (but not correct for the known value of I, which is literally only "you exist" and gives no details).

>> No.4416619
File: 1.09 MB, 270x150, 1337855496557.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4416619

>>4412151
>Dumb movie adaptations
>implying Conan the Barbarian isn't one of the greatest movies of all time

>> No.4418915

>>4416619
>dat feel when Conan finds the atlantean sword
please tell me where can I get more feels like this in literature