ITT: You argue why literature is the highest form of art and rank the others from most to least worthy of respect. Forms include: >painting >dance >music >photography >cinema >poems >etc

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Anonymous Thu Dec 26 04:49:41 2013 No.4405838 [DELETED]

ITT: You argue why literature is the highest form of art and rank the others from most to least worthy of respect.

Forms include:
>painting
>dance
>music
>photography
>cinema
>poems
>etc

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 26 04:54:41 2013 No.4405845 >>4405838 I don't know what sort of statement or message she is trying to make. Who does she think she is?!

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 26 04:55:40 2013 No.4405847 >>4405838 Rilke was one of the best poets ever and he said Sculpture was the highest form of art. So there you have it, an unbiased opinion.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 26 04:57:40 2013 No.4405851 >>4405845 >2013 >not recognizing a female human looking to mate

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 26 10:43:58 2013 No.4406362 >>4405838 Poetry Painting Music Photography Cinema Literature Dance Not that I hate dance, it's just that I think everything else takes precedence.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 26 10:45:59 2013 No.4406364 >>4406362 >photography

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 26 10:52:58 2013 No.4406374 It isn't. Music is. Music => Will => Perceiver Poetry => Will => Representation => Perceiver.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 26 10:57:58 2013 No.4406381 i don't see anime in youre list OP

Anonymous Thu Dec 26 11:00:58 2013 No.4406384

literature and painting are equal in flexibility of expression, maybe literature only slightly more because of the tighter restrictions on different styles, and flack you might get for doing something wrong; but then again that is other artists and not the painting.

taking the restrictions on certain mediums into consideration like budgets, fear of not using the medium correctly and limiting creativity, etc. The list would look like this.

>literature
>photography (even though it takes minimal skill, the low skill requirement leads to more people being able to create good OC as long as they have some idea of what art is, think of it like birdshot, if you shoot a lot of little bb's you wont miss)
>cinema (lots of restrictions
>poetry
>music (less creative flexibility and apparently even more restrictions)

dance i cant really answer for, I don't know anything about it.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 26 11:00:58 2013 No.4406386 Film ... Painting Literature ... Fotografie Music == Dance

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 26 11:03:59 2013 No.4406390 >>4405838 >photography >art wut?

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 26 11:04:58 2013 No.4406392 >>4406390 The selfie is the highest form of self-expression

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 26 11:06:58 2013 No.4406394 File: 130 KB, 612x612, mirror-selfie.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>4406392 check my swag

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 26 11:07:58 2013 No.4406395 video games are the highest form of art

Anonymous Thu Dec 26 11:07:58 2013 No.4406396
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>>4406386
>Film
The combination of literature, photography, music. I think this is the pinnacle of human creativity simply because it appeals to the most senses and that it requires a harmony between them to be considered a masterpiece.

>Painting
Tops literature by a small margin, simply because, like sculpting, wood-carving etc., it requires the most technical mastery to produce great works. While arguably lit requires little and the rules are easily bent, the painter has to express himself with colours and lines which is harder to convey a theme than literature.

>Photography
Suprisingly, a medium that requires the creative eye on vision more than most. Think back then where you only had a few shots. BUt now every thing has a camera, and photography is largely dictated by digital trends. I would imagine a film camera would produce nice works.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 26 11:09:58 2013 No.4406399 Games (movies + literature or simply just interaction) Movies Poetry Literature Music Paint/Sculpture Photography .. .. Dance

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 26 11:10:59 2013 No.4406402 >>4406396 fils is way too limited, for me it's literature>music=painting>films>>>>>>>>>>> everything else

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 26 11:10:59 2013 No.4406403 >>4406396 >implying less restrictions and required skill doesn't allow for more creative flexibility

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 26 11:11:59 2013 No.4406404 >>4406399 Wrong

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 26 11:12:58 2013 No.4406406 >>4406403 So photography and dancing is the highest art?

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 26 11:13:58 2013 No.4406407 >>4405838 all I can tell by this thread is that humans like categories.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 26 11:15:58 2013 No.4406410 >>4406399 games are wasted potential, too many people working on it; devs, writers, and companies cause too much conflict and turn it into a cluster of shit. Not to mention their target audience, which doesn't help.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 26 11:16:58 2013 No.4406413 >>4406410 Yeah, film is pretty much the same

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 26 11:17:58 2013 No.4406415 >>4406362 you must be a woman, because that's what it requires to make such a stupid post

Anonymous Thu Dec 26 11:19:58 2013 No.4406418

>>4406406
photographers are limited by what is in front of them.

I can't answer fro dancing but I always picture the scene as snobby and completely restricted by guidelines, and I really only hear about them performing old plays and crap. But it dancing does seem skillful unlike what you implied.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 26 11:21:58 2013 No.4406423 >>4406418 >photographers are limited by what is in front of them. not true, have you ever heard of something called "composition"

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 26 11:28:47 2013 No.4406438 >>4406423 by in front of them, I meant not completely in the imagination.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 26 11:29:47 2013 No.4406439 >ranking art forms oh boy

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 26 11:33:50 2013 No.4406448 Renaissance is over OP

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 26 11:35:47 2013 No.4406454 1) Literature a) Poetry b) Prose / Non-fiction 2) Music 3) Photography 4) Cinema 5) Painting SHIT: Dance Vaudeville Circus acts

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 26 11:36:47 2013 No.4406456 Games are a perpetually underated art form. It's one of the only mediums of story telling that os still evolving. Please re evaluate your conception of art to include this generations primary art form. Dorty snobs.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 26 11:36:47 2013 No.4406459 Literature Poetry Music Film Painting Photography Dance

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 26 11:41:48 2013 No.4406471 >>4406456 why are /v/ kids so funny

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 26 11:45:49 2013 No.4406479 File: 5 KB, 215x234, download (1).jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>4406454 >Vaudeville >Shit Pick one

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 26 11:46:49 2013 No.4406489 >>4405838 I don't believe in categorizing art or at the very least subjecting it to hierarchal form. That said, I'm glad you enjoy reading/painting/dancing/listening to music/etc. Have a blessed day!

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 26 11:47:48 2013 No.4406491 Apples oranges pears grapefruit cranberries grapes. Blueberries are the best, perfect blend of zest and sass

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 26 11:47:48 2013 No.4406492 >>4406491 >implying you can't like oranges more than apples must be fun not being able to form opinions

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 26 11:50:48 2013 No.4406498 >>4406492 Try reading a comment before replying to it, dick face.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 26 11:52:48 2013 No.4406506 >>4406498 i did

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 26 11:55:48 2013 No.4406517 >>4406506 Do you even understand the phrase 'apples and oranges'? Because if you did you wouldn't have replied.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 26 11:57:48 2013 No.4406523 >>4406517 i do

Anonymous Thu Dec 26 11:59:48 2013 No.4406532

It isn't. Words limit everyone, even if you are good with words, you will always be limited by them. It happens to me often, and I wouldn't say that I'm "good" with words but I try really hard to make everyone understand what exacly I want to express.

Just think about this: You will NEVER be able to express the experience of colors.

So, it's flawed. And saying -it's the one that sucks less, so it is the best!- isn't a proper point.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 26 12:02:48 2013 No.4406544 >>4406532 I'm doing some work on this idea at the minute. Is there any literature or cinema which deals with this theme? I'm basing it around the character of Harpo Marx. Also talking about Wittgenstein and his 'pass over in silence' credo.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 26 12:05:48 2013 No.4406551 >>4406532 Every art form limits you, faggot

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 26 12:09:48 2013 No.4406567 >>4406492 Fuck you're attention starved

Anonymous Thu Dec 26 12:10:48 2013 No.4406571

>>4406544
well perhaps it is stupid to name this on a board about literature, but there's a video about it, it might help you since the basic concept about this video pretty much applys to everything:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evQsOFQju08
I "developed" the idea years ago, slightly different, then I saw the video and it defined my own.
>>4406551
Exactly my point. So making a list with its order being the worth of each one, is pointless. Unless one is way more flawed than the others.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 26 12:10:48 2013 No.4406572 >>4406567 don't cry pls

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 26 12:20:48 2013 No.4406602 >>4406544 >>4406571 The video is better than I thought and it has many links to help you in its description. Watch it!

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 26 12:22:48 2013 No.4406608 File: 155 KB, 701x359, Laughter-and-Health.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>4406572 Projection

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 26 12:23:48 2013 No.4406611 >>4406608 >no u

Anonymous Thu Dec 26 12:37:07 2013 No.4406644

Poetry is literature.

Each art form has it's strengths and weaknesses. Literature is the best for transmitting complex ideas, but that doesn't mean that it's objectively better than film or music - both of those art forms are better at something than literature.

Ranking fundamentally different things such as art forms is a useless, meaningless endeavor. Rankings only make sense when the subject is something objective, such as GDP among nations or homeruns by MLB players.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 26 12:37:07 2013 No.4406647 >>4406571 >>4406572 Very interesting. The fact that children lacked a theory of mind was something I never realised.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 26 12:39:06 2013 No.4406651 >>4406611 >no u

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 26 12:40:06 2013 No.4406654 >>4406647 meant for >>4406602 and not for >>4406572

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 26 13:16:23 2013 No.4406754 >>4406479 He transcended vaudeville. He, Buster Keaton and Chaplin. Most could not. See Benny Hill for what I mean.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 26 13:21:23 2013 No.4406765 Film Literature Sculpture Painting Video Interactivity ... the rest, in whatever order they may be

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 26 14:00:10 2013 No.4406888 >>4406374 This. Thread/

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 26 14:05:10 2013 No.4406910 I think my favorite is best, for obvious reasons.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 26 14:31:28 2013 No.4407003 File: 39 KB, 490x599, 490px-John_Clare.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>4406362 I am a man. Poetry is the supreme fiction, madame.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 26 16:21:04 2013 No.4407314 cinema>literature>poetry>music>paintings>sculpture>dance Everything else is shit

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 26 19:13:11 2013 No.4407845 pornography as the highest artform

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 26 19:15:11 2013 No.4407851 Music>Painting>Literature

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 26 20:17:16 2013 No.4408005 File: 5 KB, 146x160, getaloadofthisguy.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>4406390 >implying photography isn't art Get a load of this guy

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 26 20:18:16 2013 No.4408007 Why do you care?

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 26 20:39:48 2013 No.4408049 >>4408007 How dare someone try to have a discussion about whether art can be ascribed a ranking based on its worth, and if so what that ranking might look like. WAT A WANKER

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 26 20:42:47 2013 No.4408061 >>4406532 Can't you express your experience of colors though photography though?

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 26 20:45:47 2013 No.4408068 No theatre?

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 26 20:45:47 2013 No.4408070 >>4405838 it's the oldest continuously canonical art

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 26 20:51:47 2013 No.4408084 >>4405838 why are we not counting poetry as literature? literature music painting dance cinema photography cinema is the most overrated shit ever.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 26 22:33:07 2013 No.4408334 File: 68 KB, 450x411, Kubrick.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] 1. Cinema 2. all that other archaic shit is tied

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 26 22:37:07 2013 No.4408342 >>4408334 im embarrassed for every part of your post right now where do cinema-fags get these hot opinions? how could you reason cinema as being the best?

Anonymous Thu Dec 26 22:41:07 2013 No.4408352

>>4408342
many people value an immediate visual effect rather than an "imagined" or "reasoned" one, like from reading a book, because it's a trillion times easier to indulge in. this is why tv shows and movies are so fucking popular even if everyone knows they are just shitty rehashes of old ideas; they're visual and require one's passive attention, as opposed to the active attention in writing, or reading.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 26 22:47:07 2013 No.4408369 >>4408352 that's what i think too, but i want to know how people who actually think cinema is the best reason that it's the best. i mean they probably aren't going to admit that it's just because it's easier to look at.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 26 22:49:07 2013 No.4408375 >>4408342 Films are written, have the visual thought of a great painting and feature great original pieces of music.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 26 22:57:07 2013 No.4408404 File: 25 KB, 236x346, 1388116633618.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>4406544 Read up on apophasis and ineffability.

Anonymous Thu Dec 26 23:02:07 2013 No.4408430

>>4408375
>Films are written
but not that well written. i can't think of a single film that i'd say has "great" writing, in the sense that a shakespeare play is great, or even that a hemingway novel is great, to pick a much easier bar to reach.

>have the visual thought of a great painting
never. learn to appreciate paintings. films have the visual thought of great photography at best. 99% of film cinematography is surgery, the other 1% is great photography. nothing compares to a great painter.

>feature great original pieces of music
if you like romantic music it's ok. but it's still not as good as the greatest works of music, even in romanticism, and it's still detrimentally effected by its placement in the medium.

also, by this logic video games are the greatest. but really it's all based on the belief that since films can integrate a lot of elements, that means those elements will each be of the same worth as they will be in their native art. this isn't true, since those elements will always be conflicting, and one artist can't be good at all of them. no films have reached the heights of writing of any of the masters of literature, the heights of visual thought of the masters of visual art, or the heights of music as the masters of music.

but basically the argument is "we have more crap in our medium, therefore it's better," to which the reply should be "quality over quantity"

Anonymous Thu Dec 26 23:02:07 2013 No.4408431

All these forms of art are ideal in expressing different things in different ways. Ex: music expresses raw emotion that cannot be expressed in any equal fashion by any other single medium, while literature can express specific thoughts, emotions, characteristics of humanity, etc. that music can't hope to. Cinema throws in all the other types of art together to make one total experience, but is also limited in what it can express. I think it's pretty dumb to pose the question, "which is better?" or the "highest form of art?". Each has it's own merits, each it's own limitations.

Anonymous Thu Dec 26 23:17:07 2013 No.4408481

>>4408430
>but basically the argument is "we have more crap in our medium, therefore it's better," to which the reply should be "quality over quantity"

As much as I like film, it's never a good argument by someone to mention how they incorporate other mediums -- as if that adds to it. It's like baking a cake and saying, "Well, if we add more ingredients, that means it's better!"

I don't think mediums should be compared because they dabble in their own realms and it ends up being like comparing a piece by Bach with a Pynchon novel and makes no sense, in the long run.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 26 23:19:07 2013 No.4408487 >>4406381 I don't see grammar in youre post.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 26 23:20:07 2013 No.4408489 >>4408481 i agree it makes no sense, but it's a fun parlor game anyway. i don't take it seriously, but i like having these arguments. arguing over something pointless is a good brain exercise

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 26 23:30:07 2013 No.4408516 >>4408430 Something like 2001 couldn't be done in any other medium. The novel which was written at the same time pales in comparison

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 26 23:33:08 2013 No.4408526 And let me add I'd throw opera in with film, but it doesn't offer even close to the same amount of shot composition and editing as you can get with a movie.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 26 23:35:13 2013 No.4408536 >>4408430 >never. Tarkovsky.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 26 23:36:13 2013 No.4408538 >>4408536 not even close. tarkovsky and bergman are my favorite directors and it's not even close. are you really going to argue that he compares to michelangelo or rembrandt?

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 26 23:36:13 2013 No.4408539 >>4408068 This. The most human art of all.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 26 23:38:12 2013 No.4408546 bitches don't know bout classical greek tragedy

Jeff Mangum Died For Your Sins !rAl8Mz2mp2 Thu Dec 26 23:39:12 2013 No.4408549

>God Tier
Literature
Music
Film
Painting

>High Tier
Fashion design
Sculpture
Photography
Architecture
Industrial design
Textiles

>Mid Tier
Theater
Calligraphy
Dance
Cuisine
Interior design (as a concept)
Conceptual art
Graphic design

>Useless Shit Tier
Ceramics
Glassware
Woodworking
Printmaking
Jewelry
Fretwork
Metal work
Ivory Carving

>Not Even Art Tier
Videogames

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 26 23:40:12 2013 No.4408556 >>4408546 i just finished my collection of all aeschylus's works. TIME FOR SOPHOCLES NOW. it was pretty good but i just count it as literature now

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 26 23:41:14 2013 No.4408560 >>4408556 by all his works i mean all the surviving ones

Anonymous Thu Dec 26 23:42:14 2013 No.4408564
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>>4408430
>i can't think of a single film that i'd say has "great" writing, in the sense that a shakespeare play is great

Clearly you've never seen The Big Lebowski

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 26 23:42:14 2013 No.4408566 >>4408549 >theater >mid-tier >interior design >not shit-tier Good one!

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 26 23:42:14 2013 No.4408568 I'd argue that music and theater are the best because they are the most immediate. Each performance is different. If live storytelling were still still in vogue it'd be up there.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 26 23:42:14 2013 No.4408569 File: 173 KB, 787x1000, ivory.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>4408549 >>Useless Shit Tier >Ivory Carving thu hwaet freond

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 26 23:43:13 2013 No.4408575 >>4408549 >Fashion, industrial design, textiles as "High Tier" Get the fuck off my board you pleb

Anonymous Thu Dec 26 23:43:14 2013 No.4408570

>>4408538
>not even close

Yes, very close. He specifically studied paintings in order to model lighting/shading arrangements in his art direction. I'm not saying his stills resemble masters of the form, but that they do indeed come close to the form itself.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 26 23:44:13 2013 No.4408578 >>4408549 >Shakespeare, Beckett, Shaw, Tennessee Williams, Ibsen, Chekov, etc. all in mid tier

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 26 23:45:12 2013 No.4408581 File: 27 KB, 366x380, goddamn.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>4408549 >Industrial design

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 26 23:47:46 2013 No.4408586 File: 170 KB, 590x768, Dürer-Hieronymus-im-Gehäus.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>4408549 >>Useless Shit Tier >Printmaking incredulous northern renaissance artist.exe

>>	Jeff Mangum Died For Your Sins !rAl8Mz2mp2 Thu Dec 26 23:48:43 2013 No.4408592 File: 98 KB, 775x1024, freja.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>4408575 >can't appreciate the beauty, universality, and potentiality of self-expression in fashion >calling others pleb

Anonymous Thu Dec 26 23:48:43 2013 No.4408594

>>4408570
modelling lighting arrangements is well and good, but is one minor part of a great painting. mirroring that is mirroring a small portion of what makes a great painter great. it's still so far from a great painter that i don't find them in the same realm at all. tarkovsky's best work makes us admire it for its beauty, rembrandt's best work gives us a new way that he fashioned of seeing the world.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 26 23:50:43 2013 No.4408603 >>4408592 truly, this is greater than the works of shakespeare

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 26 23:50:43 2013 No.4408608 Film probably has the greatest theoretical potential, but most films don't even try to utilize it. Literature by all means should be the most limited, but manages to push the envelope much more than other mediums.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 26 23:51:43 2013 No.4408610 >>4408592 you wreak of art school pretense

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 26 23:53:43 2013 No.4408621 >>4408610 lel

Anonymous Thu Dec 26 23:56:43 2013 No.4408632

>>4408592
Your post is quite literally the plebbiest thing I've seen all day. So plebby it makes NASCAR look sophisticated. Stating that fashion is a higher form of art than theatre and in the same breath pretending ID is anything other than a silly little marketing ploy is.... dear god, the hot white burning of plebdom, glowing like a thousand suns.

Now please, get the fuck off of my board.

>>	Jeff Mangum Died For Your Sins !rAl8Mz2mp2 Thu Dec 26 23:57:43 2013 No.4408638 >>4408603 All right, fine. Euripides puts theater in High Tier. Doesn't change my opinions on fashion >>4408610 I wish I could afford college

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 26 23:57:43 2013 No.4408640 >>4408592 So, enlighten me on how that particular outfit transmits sensations of wonder so powerful as to equate them to literature? Plus, not using CDG, fucking plen.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 26 23:58:43 2013 No.4408641 >>4408610 ha, this. The babby's trying so desperately to convince himself his irrelevant field of study actually matters in light of real art.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 27 00:01:43 2013 No.4408650 >>4408640 She looks like a qt3.14 in it brah, don't be hatin

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 27 00:01:43 2013 No.4408653 >>4408638 once you read the other greek tragedians and get into shakespeare you'll be putting it in god tier :)

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 27 00:03:43 2013 No.4408658 >>4408653 >read I will never understand why some people are content with reading scripts for an artform that was meant to be performed

Jeff Mangum Died For Your Sins !rAl8Mz2mp2 Fri Dec 27 00:04:43 2013 No.4408666

>>4408632
>ID is anything other than a silly little marketing ploy is
Only if you think function precedes design, which is the old way of looking at ID.

>>4408640
That outfit is purely aesthetic; it doesn't intend to communicate any message. But fashion is capable of communication. For example, wearing Western clothing in certain parts of Africa can be seen as a political stance. Or wearing certain colors can communicate tribal affiliation. We do it ourselves. We tend to dress like the people we hang out with as a sort-of tribal comradery

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 27 00:05:43 2013 No.4408667 >>4408658 better than nothing. we can't see them as they were meant to be performed, so better than nothing. they are still great as is.

>>	Jeff Mangum Died For Your Sins !rAl8Mz2mp2 Fri Dec 27 00:08:43 2013 No.4408678 >>4408641 I can't afford to go to college. I don't study any particular field. I'm a 4chan dilettante

Anonymous Fri Dec 27 00:08:43 2013 No.4408681

>>4408666
So a neckbeard wearing a worn milsurp greatcoat, cheap Wal-Mart fedora, and oversized double-breasted suit with roshes would somehow be sending a message that could be equated to someone who actually manages to do it well?

You could have at least justified it with runway proof (lately shock value, different ways to frame the human body, and so on), instead you took some retarded "self-expression for everyone!" route.

You sad plen.

Anonymous Fri Dec 27 00:09:43 2013 No.4408684

Didn't read the thread, but here's my 2 cents:

This is something I've been thinking about, not so much as whether any form of art is 'higher' or 'better' than any other, but more as in how the impact of art differs between forms. It's something that came into my mind as I was reading and studying Joyce. The man is clearly a master of language, but even with knowledge of his style and depth works like Dubliners or Portrait just didn't really have a lot of impact with me.

The reason for this, at least in my thought, is that I haven't been reading very much. I've only been seriously reading for about two years, only around a hundred or so books in that period, hence I figured my 'reading muscle' isn't strong enough to truly appreciate the writing of Joyce, especially comparing with my taste in music, in which I have had much more experience in.

With regard to the topic, I think the issue depends on what sort of impact you value from art. In my opinion, language, especially written, is the most abstract form of expression, think of poetry. With art forms such as painting, music or cinema the expression in its simplest form is far closer to our natural perception of the world than literature. A painting represents a man, anyone can see it, a 4/4 basic harmonic song, everyone can feel it, a movie shows a man and a woman kissing, anyone can live it. These kinds of art works appeal to our senses in the most basic way, seeing, hearing and the two combined.

Literature, however, cannot be experienced without abstraction of the language to paper. You can write "horse" on a piece of paper, but if you show it to someone who can't read, and cannot recognize the as written language (a child or one of those tribes living removed from civilization, if you pardon my white patriarchal colonialism) the word is just black markings on a piece of paper, without any meaning. Draw a picture of a man next to the word and immediately you get a reaction (except, of course, if we are dealing with someone who has never even seen another human, but let's not get into that here). I suppose this is one proposed explanation for the origin of ideogrammatic languages.

So I suppose the main question is, if you want some sort of a hierarchy of arts, you choose whether you value more abstract expression or more 'primitive', for lack of a better word, expression, and start building your argument from there. Of course literature also includes basic myths and legends, which were originally told orally, but with regard to literature as a whole I don't think it ruins my general line of reasoning. Written text allows you to move back and forth with the narrative however you like, and some writers (DFW for instance) use this to their advantage.

Anonymous Fri Dec 27 00:10:44 2013 No.4408689

>>4408684

Actually, I'll have to admit now that I haven't really thought about spoken word enough. I'll just end this rant for now. The main point I guess wasn't really about the different levels of abstraction between different art forms, as all of them have developed their own, very complex, forms of expression, and to just point out that with every form of art you need a certain level of practice, or 'connoisseurism', to be able to appreciate it in all its entirety. So the hierarchy or arts probably varies considerably person to person, with painters ranking painting the highest and writers literature and so forth. Of course the allure of unknown can make a painter rank literature the highest and writer painting, but I'm starting again and I don't think I have much more to add, so I'll just end this now.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 27 00:13:43 2013 No.4408697 >>4408684 Interesting post, a bit overly-wordy maybe, but readable.

Jeff Mangum Died For Your Sins !rAl8Mz2mp2 Fri Dec 27 00:13:43 2013 No.4408699

>>4408681
Fashion is multiple things. There's mainstream haute couture, which one can appreciate from afar like a painting or a film. There's simple self-expression, in which taste plays an obvious role. There's tribal and cultural affiliation.

I just didn't mention the first category because it's what automatically comes to mind whenever one thinks of fashion design. And it's inaccessibility tends to put people off

Anonymous Fri Dec 27 00:18:43 2013 No.4408719

>>4408699
But we're in a board that treasures inaccessibility: we hate everything that is plug and play, and venerate names like Joyce and Pynchon.

Why not expose them to an entirely different level of inaccessibility? So to shake them from their literary torpor?

>>	Jeff Mangum Died For Your Sins !rAl8Mz2mp2 Fri Dec 27 00:20:43 2013 No.4408730 >>4408684 I think this entire thread should be taken with a grain of salt. The ranking is mostly just for fun; a way to point out the forms that most interest you personally, not an objective categorization

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 27 00:23:43 2013 No.4408752 >>4408699 Trashion is the best fashion

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 27 00:26:43 2013 No.4408764 >>4408697 I guess that's uni for you. >>4408730 I do agree, but it's still an interesting subject to think about. Not so much the hierarchy part, but the differences in expression between the arts.

Jeff Mangum Died For Your Sins !rAl8Mz2mp2 Fri Dec 27 00:26:43 2013 No.4408767
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>>4408719
I'm too timid. I've had a phobia of being seen as pretentious ever since kids in the 2nd grade laughed at me for using the word "puzzled"

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 27 00:42:43 2013 No.4408809 Least worthy will always be video games.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 27 00:46:43 2013 No.4408822 >>4408809 Because muh social stigma.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 27 00:58:43 2013 No.4408862 >God Tier >Painting >Not sculpture or architecture >Not everything in the Useless Shit tier What a safe and uncontroversial opinion. How boring.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 27 01:44:49 2013 No.4409009 >>4405838 >unironically ranking art forms fuck, man.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 27 16:45:54 2013 No.4410853 >>4405838 sex is art too it's the true form of it

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 27 18:31:30 2013 No.4411236 >>4405838 cinema>music>photography>literature>painting>poems>dance>etc

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 27 18:41:29 2013 No.4411269 >>4410853 if this were true (or recognized) it wouldn't be the case that sex workers get paid very little while performance "artists" get money to point out that people are uncomfortable about sex acts performed in front of them

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 27 18:42:29 2013 No.4411279 File: 60 KB, 948x1422, 1388187742547.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >all the plebs in this thread hating on dance because it's the only art form they don't know anything about http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rJoB7y6Ncs

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 27 18:45:29 2013 No.4411296 No art form is more valid than any other. Any piece is dependant on context and the craft of the creator. If one has an idea they wish to express and a measure of creativity, they can make it work in any medium.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 27 18:49:29 2013 No.4411311 >>4411279 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98XRKr19jIE

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 27 18:51:29 2013 No.4411317 >>4411311 That's like dismissing literature entirely because 50 Shades of Grey exists.

JewmanMenorahSupreme Fri Dec 27 18:53:30 2013 No.4411324
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>>4411269
>>4410853
I don't think sex is truly art, but can be art. Being the "essence" of something and simply being a part of that thing are very different. Art, in my definition, is something makes you think - pablo picasso did say "art is the lie that makes us realize the truth," which I think is true for the most part.

It's interesting how you bring up that people are uncomfortable about sexual acts performed in front of them, because some people are equally as uncomfortable about songs, or paintings.

Also ranking different forms of art is fucking retarded and OP should die in hole. Art is subjective asshole.

>>	Fergus 2938-7436-7684 [slugma,(...) Fri Dec 27 18:55:29 2013 No.4411331 >all these people ranking poetry seperately to literature >not recognizing that poetry is the superior form of literature poetry>drama>prose

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 27 19:26:04 2013 No.4411436 >>4411317 Woah. I wans't dissing dance or making a point. It was merely something that sprung to mind. An internet case of verbal diarrhea perhaps.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 27 19:28:04 2013 No.4411445 >>4405838 I'd like to have some sex with her!

Anonymous Sat Dec 28 09:02:08 2013 No.4413305

>>4406456
>>4408549
>>4408809

Games are art. It's just that they're not literature-tier art (then again, nothing is).

Problem is, video game journalists are on a pointless quest to validate games as art and thus give 10/10s to every game which has shallow depictions of issues such as racism or homosexuality. Gone Home, Bioshock Infinite and a bunch of such games are actually very mediocre, but they get praised because video game fans as a whole are immature idiots who have never read a goddamn book in their lives.

Want a good story in a video game?

Grim Fandango
Legacy of Kain series
Ghost Trick
Silent Hill series
Planescape: Torment

Try those out.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 28 09:05:08 2013 No.4413310 >>4405838 You forgot >video games[/spoiler[

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 28 09:09:07 2013 No.4413315 >>4408487 I don't see my dick in you're mom Oh wait yes I do #rekt

Anonymous Sat Dec 28 09:12:08 2013 No.4413320

Video games have by far the most potential as an art form, but they are not even close to have reached that potential yet.

Literature is the highest art form for the moment because it has been around for such a long time and has reached its full potential.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 28 09:17:23 2013 No.4413322 >>4413315 #gotem

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 28 09:18:23 2013 No.4413323 >>4413320 can you give an argument why you think video games have the highest potential?

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 28 09:20:23 2013 No.4413325 This thread has been linked to from /v/, you have been warned. >>>/v/224698882

Anonymous Sat Dec 28 09:24:24 2013 No.4413336

>>4413323
Not that guy, but a video game can contain elements from virtually all other reproducible media (text, film, animation, music, voice acting) as well as elements of its own (interactivity, challenge). A book can't contain a video game, but a video game can contain a book (Morrowind, WoW).

Anonymous Sat Dec 28 09:32:23 2013 No.4413350

>>4413323
Mainly because video games utilize modern technology for artistic purposes. More technological potential = more artistic potential.

video games can also contain many other art forms at the same time (film, music, literature, and possibly stuff like dancing with virtual reality devices).

Anonymous Sat Dec 28 09:38:41 2013 No.4413358

>>4413336
i think that having multiple mediums in one art form and trying to satisfy all those mediums NECESSARILY means that one or more will come up short.

take the last of us and smb3. TLOU was a game that aimed to be realistic and so forth, and thus was allowed to be sort of like a film, that is, to partake in the "film" medium more than smb3. smb3 has no pretensions of partaking in that medium.

TLOU, because of those pretensions, needs to maintain its realism. therefore, it needs to have gameplay that allows only more or less realistic actions to be taken by the player. the player is limited to only a scope of weapons and actions that are somewhat believable. mario has no such limitations. the gameplay is unbounded by these things. mario can jump in EXACTLY the way he was designed to for PERFECT feeling jump mechanics, with no regard for how people jump in real life. joel can't do that. another example is that TLOU needs to have working and complex AI. when the AI fucks up, it matters. it breaks the realism and thus hurts the game. but, mario can have simple to no AI. the koopas can just walk right off the cliffs. no harm.

that's just sort of an illustration of how i think that different mediums conflict necessarily. and it's not just about TLOU vs. Mario. i just think that any game which aims at incorporating heavily film, lit, etc. will end up having other parts of it severely limited.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 28 09:39:41 2013 No.4413359 >>4413336 >>4413350 at the same time, this means that video games require a lot of people to work on them and to a certain extent "artistic vision" gets diluted. There needs to be someone clearly in charge, just as artists used to run their workshops.

Anonymous Sat Dec 28 09:40:23 2013 No.4413364

>>4413350
>Mainly because video games utilize modern technology for artistic purposes. More technological potential = more artistic potential.

i'd be interested in hearing an argument for this. literature has pretty much the least technological potential and the most artistic potential, in my view.

i responded to the other argument above.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 28 13:22:32 2013 No.4413793 no meaning discussion with

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 28 14:18:32 2013 No.4413919 File: 47 KB, 477x358, pendulum.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] You fools. Art is a pendulum not a tower and the vibrations all begin and end with us. >>4408684 this guy has an idea what's up.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 28 14:26:32 2013 No.4413946 >>4413919 and to those who would doubt the artistic potential of video games: you will not be around long enough for your opinion on that subject to matter. minimize it if you must, but that will be your shortcoming.

Anonymous Sat Dec 28 15:07:13 2013 No.4414072

>>4413946
I have issue with this though. Undoubtedly video games have really artistic qualities, but I feel like video games are too dependent on the interaction of the audience to be considered an art form. I think that a work can only be considered art in a cultural context if an artist, sensory form, and an audience exist for that work, but the role of the audience is only to receive the work. Video games demand participation; without it it is incomplete. But this complicates the relationship between the artist and the audience. The receiver has an artist's role in a video game, so there is no passive audience. And artistic criticism of video games would be difficult because there wouldn't really be a common understanding of the story given the infinite variations in reception based on the skill and in-game interests of the player. Video game criticism could only really analyze the potential of the work, but that would always be incomplete.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 28 15:51:30 2013 No.4414249 editing is a art from

Anonymous Sat Dec 28 16:06:31 2013 No.4414306

>>4408684
Cool post, my only problem with your argument is that basically you argue abstraction (distance from actual reality) == high art. I'm not sure if that's necessarily a proper means of classification. Yet again, there really isn't any other way to classify art forms against each other other than distance from reality... Also, we see words to read them. How is the written word any different than a painter's representation of reality?

Anonymous Sat Dec 28 16:07:31 2013 No.4414312
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>>4414072

incomplete you say, yet the conversation will never end so long as an inch of lack exists

the pendulum will continue to swing.

your paradigms are obstructive to harmony, i suggest you revisit them

start with the way you definitively believe form precedes function

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 28 16:11:31 2013 No.4414323 >>4414306 you read that wrong. his point was about how to start the classification process.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 28 16:13:19 2013 No.4414329 >>4414323 in any case, he is correct, but he is still considering the tower not the pendulum.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 28 16:15:18 2013 No.4414335 >>4406459 I can get behind dis nigga.

Anonymous Sat Dec 28 16:20:17 2013 No.4414355

>>4414312
>the conversation will never end so long as an inch of lack exists
That's true of any work. But since video games require active participation (which forces the player to be complicit in the text of the work), the work is structurally incomplete without the player and cannot be received wholly. But with the player, there is no way to receive a video game as a work of art without being part of the work, unless you are observing someone else play, which would just be storytelling and would not add anything to the discussion of video games as a medium being art.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 28 16:21:17 2013 No.4414360 Why the fuck are people separating poetry and literature?

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 28 16:25:17 2013 No.4414371 >>4406413 >film is pretty much the same No it isn't, not by a long shot.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 28 16:25:17 2013 No.4414374 >>4405838 Music is clearly the highest. If you were an actual writer, you would've known. Readers and wannabes are the ones who think literature is the most expressive form of art.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 28 16:26:17 2013 No.4414377 >>4414360 poetry is a higher form of literature

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 28 16:27:17 2013 No.4414381 File: 178 KB, 2400x747, deathandmisery.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>4414355 the "player" has always been "complicit" in the "text of the work"

Anonymous Sat Dec 28 16:28:18 2013 No.4414387

>>4414355
This is factually incorrect.

Playing a game is like reading a novel: following storytelling, feeling the rhythm. You have to actively play, which affects some aspects of perception; similarly, reading speed, your way of turning pages, your attention span et al affect your perception of, say, literature.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 28 16:28:18 2013 No.4414388 >>4414377 Exactly. I don't see any of the other media being separated by genre.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 28 16:29:18 2013 No.4414389 >>4414377 No, it isn't. And no one reads your gay blog.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 28 16:38:49 2013 No.4414433 video games anime webcomics regular comics movies books

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 28 16:42:48 2013 No.4414445 File: 47 KB, 598x661, tadaoando-thecompleteworks[1].jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >not architecture stay pleb

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 28 16:47:48 2013 No.4414459 >>4408608 >literature manages to push the envelope more than other mediums That's because it's creation is under the complete artistic control of a single person.

Anonymous Sat Dec 28 16:52:20 2013 No.4414469

>>4414381
Yes, but to the extent of being a receiver. The fact that you are required to control the way the story proceeds in a video game means you are not just a receiver, but a creator, meaning you can only really be receptive of your actions within the work.

>>4414387
>reading speed, your way of turning pages, your attention span et al affect your perception of, say, literature.

But those things are meaningless when analyzing a work. The thing about video games, especially now, is that there really isn't a correct way to play it on a fundamental level. With a novel, you are required as someone fully engaging with the text to read from front to back. You do not get to skip over chapters you feel are unnecessary and still claim to know the story. But video games are different. It is almost impossible now to do everything possible in a video game, let alone be able to form a cohesive analysis on the work based on everything that it offers. There is also the issue of the variety of video games. If you want to call video games art, you must call all video games art, and that includes games like Pong, which has absolutely nothing to communicate. Video games are becoming more artistic, more literary, and more cinematic, but they are first and foremost games that are subject to the individual player, barring it from being adequately studied as a work of art.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 28 17:48:52 2013 No.4414615 >>4406392 >Thinking that the photographs a teen takes with her iphone are the same as the work of a studied photographer. You must think that the shit that a highschooler writes to his girlfriend counts as great poetry

>>	Tallis !!DxrlCMGAS2J Sat Dec 28 17:51:52 2013 No.4414623 >>4405838 Objectively superior list: Music = Literature = Poetry Painting = Cinema Photography = Dance

Anonymous Sat Dec 28 18:07:52 2013 No.4414652
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>>4414469

your claims are based on your limited understanding of art and video games.

your manner of thinking is a brachiosaurus chewing leaves and believing trees are only those things with leaves high enough to eat comfortably.

your manner of thinking is a dinosaur.

if games are any more subject to the individual than literature, and if this bars it from being adequately studied as a work of art, whoever is inadequate should aim to be adequate. negation is death. negation is emphasis. once the emphasis is eaten, the shell of negation is tossed aside. emphasis is awareness. negation is death. awareness is life.

Anonymous Sat Dec 28 18:26:53 2013 No.4414694

music > literature

music is a more abstract art form since literature is often littered with ideas and used as a medium to express political or social viewpoints whereas music only communicates itself making it a much more pure art form.

and to those arguing that music is worse because it has more restrictions on the artist why exactly is that a bad thing?

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/lit/ - Literature